Doug Casey on Bitcoin

[Ukigo]

Take a look at :

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[Torminalis]

Guess who has all their money in Gold?

Aside from being a pretty and maleable metal, I do not understand why Gold is valued any more highly than Bitcoins aside from the history of trading. Gold is no more 'backed' than Bitcoins, you can't eat either at the end of the day.

[relative]

gold is backed by thousands of years of history.

[Torminalis]

Bitcoins have a History of being traded, albeit a far shorter one.

If a history of tradability is all that one requires in order to be 'backed' then Bitcoins are likely to far better backed in the long run as they have unique properties that Gold simply does not. Try sending gold by Morse code for example.

[hugolp]

gold is backed by thousands of years of history.

Also, gold has some qualities that Bitcoin does not have. On the other hand, Bitcoin does have some qualities gold ddoes not have. They are complementary.

[relative]

gold is backed by thousands of years of history.

Also, gold has some qualities that Bitcoin does not have. On the other hand, Bitcoin does have some qualities gold ddoes not have. They are complementary.

right. I dont understand the negative reaction towards bitcoins by some goldbugs either.
the only chance gold will ever be used for trade again is by receipts issued by a central authority.
we've been there before. no authority can be trusted to not issue more receipts than gold was deposited.

libertarian goldbugs should welcome it anyway as one competing currency among many.

[killer2021]

gold is backed by thousands of years of history.

Also, gold has some qualities that Bitcoin does not have. On the other hand, Bitcoin does have some qualities gold ddoes not have. They are complementary.

right. I dont understand the negative reaction towards bitcoins by some goldbugs either.
the only chance gold will ever be used for trade again is by receipts issued by a central authority.
we've been there before. no authority can be trusted to not issue more receipts than gold was deposited.

libertarian goldbugs should welcome it anyway as one competing currency among many.

Yes, I think the biggest fear they have is the fact that gold has been used as money for centuries. With that being said, gold gains a significant increase in value. Also for centuries mankind has used gold to show off wealth in the form of jewelry. The other major use of gold is to produce coins or bars which is obviously used for investing. The reason people invest it/hoard it is simply because at one point it was used as money.

If this idea that gold is money is ever put at jeopardy then guess what happens to the value of gold? Falls off a cliff. Bitcoin puts seep competition against gold because lets face it, bitcoins are finite, difficult to obtain, and easier to transfer than gold.

Just to put it into perspective: Bitcoin is the cubic zirconia of the diamond industry. Why buy a real diamond when you can buy a zirconia diamond at a fraction of the cost?

The only real uses for gold are in the dental industry, electronics industry and scientific industry which only consume about 10% of the mined production. The rest goes into investments or jewelry. Most of the world entire history of mined gold is still in existence (ie. not thrown away). This is because most of it is recycled.

[Gabi]

Well, I’m not surprised the U.S. government should take such action.

If this happens, will the US government attack Europe and arrest everyone using bitcoin here?   US is not the world  

[killer2021]

Well, I’m not surprised the U.S. government should take such action.

If this happens, will the US government attack Europe and arrest everyone using bitcoin here?   US is not the world  

Should be interesting to see how that unfolds since bitcoin is impossible to stop just like torrents or wikileaks. If you ban bitcoins in the us then you can still use them in other parts of the world. Many people think that the us government can just write a law and shut down bitcoin network or something, as if there is one central server controlling the whole network.

In many parts of the world, the government has alot bigger issue to worry about than some kids using bitcoins. Also, lets face the fact that some countries stand to gain if btc is widely used.

[relative]

Yes, I think the biggest fear they have is the fact that gold has been used as money for centuries. With that being said, gold gains a significant increase in value. Also for centuries mankind has used gold to show off wealth in the form of jewelry. The other major use of gold is to produce coins or bars which is obviously used for investing. The reason people invest it/hoard it is simply because at one point it was used as money.

If this idea that gold is money is ever put at jeopardy then guess what happens to the value of gold? Falls off a cliff. Bitcoin puts seep competition against gold because lets face it, bitcoins are finite, difficult to obtain, and easier to transfer than gold.

Just to put it into perspective: Bitcoin is the cubic zirconia of the diamond industry. Why buy a real diamond when you can buy a zirconia diamond at a fraction of the cost?

The only real uses for gold are in the dental industry, electronics industry and scientific industry which only consume about 10% of the mined production. The rest goes into investments or jewelry. Most of the world entire history of mined gold is still in existence (ie. not thrown away). This is because most of it is recycled.

I didnt mean to say gold will become worthless because of bitcoin, or that bitcoin > gold.
(in fact, I still believe it is far less likely that bitcoin will be adopted as a widespread form of payment than gold will "fall off a cliff")

I just dont see the rivalry. one has nothing to do with the other, gold wont be used for trade again.

[Timo Y]

gold is backed by thousands of years of history.

Salt was backed by thousands of years of history ... until somebody invented the refrigerator.

[relative]

gold is backed by thousands of years of history.

Salt was backed by thousands of years of history ... until somebody invented the refrigerator.

good. then calculate the likelihood of something like that happening in your lifetime, and there is your risk for gold.

[hugolp]

gold is backed by thousands of years of history.

Salt was backed by thousands of years of history ... until somebody invented the refrigerator.

In spanish, wage is called "salario", and that comes from being payed with "sal" (salt).

[kiba]

This call for the Bitcoin and the Goldbug article!

When somebody figure how to mine asteroids, gold as a valuable commodity will be over forever.  

[killer2021]

Yes, I think the biggest fear they have is the fact that gold has been used as money for centuries. With that being said, gold gains a significant increase in value. Also for centuries mankind has used gold to show off wealth in the form of jewelry. The other major use of gold is to produce coins or bars which is obviously used for investing. The reason people invest it/hoard it is simply because at one point it was used as money.

If this idea that gold is money is ever put at jeopardy then guess what happens to the value of gold? Falls off a cliff. Bitcoin puts seep competition against gold because lets face it, bitcoins are finite, difficult to obtain, and easier to transfer than gold.

Just to put it into perspective: Bitcoin is the cubic zirconia of the diamond industry. Why buy a real diamond when you can buy a zirconia diamond at a fraction of the cost?

The only real uses for gold are in the dental industry, electronics industry and scientific industry which only consume about 10% of the mined production. The rest goes into investments or jewelry. Most of the world entire history of mined gold is still in existence (ie. not thrown away). This is because most of it is recycled.

I didnt mean to say gold will become worthless because of bitcoin, or that bitcoin > gold.
(in fact, I still believe it is far less likely that bitcoin will be adopted as a widespread form of payment than gold will "fall off a cliff")

I just dont see the rivalry. one has nothing to do with the other, gold wont be used for trade again.

You have to understand there is a major correlation. The reason gold trades at the value it does is primarily because people place a value on it. In most parts of the world gold is the symbol of wealth and money. It is the stuff of kings and empires. There is a huge value being placed on gold for those qualities. BUT that value ONLY exists if people think that gold = wealth. If that idea is ever lost, then gold will be like just any other metal and will trade primarily at the value placed on it by industrial consumers.

[FreeMoney]

gold is backed by thousands of years of history.

Salt was backed by thousands of years of history ... until somebody invented the refrigerator.

good. then calculate the likelihood of something like that happening in your lifetime, and there is your risk for gold.

100%...?

Bitcoin: A refrigerator for gold

Naw, I love some gold. When Bitcoin is close to correctly priced I'm going to buy a ton (literally maybe).

[relative]

I didnt mean to say gold will become worthless because of bitcoin, or that bitcoin > gold.
(in fact, I still believe it is far less likely that bitcoin will be adopted as a widespread form of payment than gold will "fall off a cliff")

I just dont see the rivalry. one has nothing to do with the other, gold wont be used for trade again.

You have to understand there is a major correlation. The reason gold trades at the value it does is primarily because people place a value on it. In most parts of the world gold is the symbol of wealth and money. It is the stuff of kings and empires. There is a huge value being placed on gold for those qualities. BUT that value ONLY exists if people think that gold = wealth. If that idea is ever lost, then gold will be like just any other metal and will trade primarily at the value placed on it by industrial consumers.

I understand that. I don't understand how that contradicts anything I've said?

[relative]

Bitcoin: A refrigerator for gold

not really. gold traditionally is a store of value in case established monetary systems collapse (see: spike because of financial crisis and devaluations of fiat currencies), and, for that reason still, to back monetary systems. central banks still hold large amounts.

bitcoin needs infrastructure. in fact, very complex and vulnerable infrastructure.

[killer2021]

I didnt mean to say gold will become worthless because of bitcoin, or that bitcoin > gold.
(in fact, I still believe it is far less likely that bitcoin will be adopted as a widespread form of payment than gold will "fall off a cliff")

I just dont see the rivalry. one has nothing to do with the other, gold wont be used for trade again.

You have to understand there is a major correlation. The reason gold trades at the value it does is primarily because people place a value on it. In most parts of the world gold is the symbol of wealth and money. It is the stuff of kings and empires. There is a huge value being placed on gold for those qualities. BUT that value ONLY exists if people think that gold = wealth. If that idea is ever lost, then gold will be like just any other metal and will trade primarily at the value placed on it by industrial consumers.

I understand that. I don't understand how that contradicts anything I've said?

I was explaining why goldbugs fear bitcoin. Most goldbugs believe that gold is money and will eventually be used as money again. Thats why they hate bitcoin. If the dollar collapses and people start to use bitcoin instead of gold, there goes their big plan of gold going up 10,000,000%.

But of course many libertarians (such as myself) see bitcoin as just another currency and yes I agree with you that gold and bitcoin can compliment each other (but I prefer to hold silver, myself).

[Timo Y]

bitcoin needs infrastructure. in fact, very complex and vulnerable infrastructure.

Complex, yes. Vulnerable no.  Localized internet outages do not threaten bitcoin's long term value.  It would require a massively catastrophic event to destroy the entire internet, worldwide, permanently. An event that would almost certainly also destroy the infrastructure protecting your gold: bank vaults, police forces, transport systems, electricity grids, etc.

...unless you are the survivalist type who lives in the woods and buries his gold in the ground.

[lonestranger]

Goldmoney requires that one be "verified" by sending them govt ID and utility bills--this is the same shit MtGox requires to increase one's withdrawal limit. This is the greatest weakness of goldmoney for Americans.

(Btw, the knee-jerk "America is the greatest country" readers must have trouble reading Casey!)

Bitcoin's advantage is that it can be private and portable, moving effortlessly across borders. This is going to matter a great deal in these times. We ARE going into a world war, after all.

[Litt]

bitcoin needs infrastructure. in fact, very complex and vulnerable infrastructure.

Complex, yes. Vulnerable no.  Localized internet outages do not threaten bitcoin's long term value.  It would require a massively catastrophic event to destroy the entire internet, worldwide, permanently. An event that would almost certainly also destroy the infrastructure protecting your gold: bank vaults, police forces, transport systems, electricity grids, etc.

...unless you are the survivalist type who lives in the woods and buries his gold in the ground.

I agree. I highly doubt that even in the worst of case when/if the fiat currencies start to collapse in itself, entire network of internet infrastructure will be offline for a prolonged time to effectively stop the bitcoin trade long enough to bring it's value to nil. I'm seriously hoping for a new type of technology to develop where we can connect to the internet via p2p or open wireless type of structure without central nodes. That would 100% insure the bitcoin network never going offline without an ounce of doubt, but the technology in development may be bit more down the future. Namecoin is definitely a start in the right direction in that aspect. If anything, the signs of terrible things to come in the events preceding the possible collapse should urge the general public to seek out and develop such technology out of necessity.

[Travis]

To me one of the biggest downers for Bitcoin, one of the things that makes me pessimistic, is that so many in the libertarian / sound money crowd seem to dismiss it. If that lot can't 'get it', the greater public surely can't?

gold is backed by thousands of years of history.

Salt was backed by thousands of years of history ... until somebody invented the refrigerator.

good. then calculate the likelihood of something like that happening in your lifetime, and there is your risk for gold.

The rate of change in technology and society is increasing, its more likely than you think.

[tavi]

Yes, I think the biggest fear they have is the fact that gold has been used as money for centuries. With that being said, gold gains a significant increase in value. Also for centuries mankind has used gold to show off wealth in the form of jewelry. The other major use of gold is to produce coins or bars which is obviously used for investing. The reason people invest it/hoard it is simply because at one point it was used as money.

If this idea that gold is money is ever put at jeopardy then guess what happens to the value of gold? Falls off a cliff. Bitcoin puts seep competition against gold because lets face it, bitcoins are finite, difficult to obtain, and easier to transfer than gold.

Just to put it into perspective: Bitcoin is the cubic zirconia of the diamond industry. Why buy a real diamond when you can buy a zirconia diamond at a fraction of the cost?

The only real uses for gold are in the dental industry, electronics industry and scientific industry which only consume about 10% of the mined production. The rest goes into investments or jewelry. Most of the world entire history of mined gold is still in existence (ie. not thrown away). This is because most of it is recycled.

I didnt mean to say gold will become worthless because of bitcoin, or that bitcoin > gold.
(in fact, I still believe it is far less likely that bitcoin will be adopted as a widespread form of payment than gold will "fall off a cliff")

I just dont see the rivalry. one has nothing to do with the other, gold wont be used for trade again.

You have to understand there is a major correlation. The reason gold trades at the value it does is primarily because people place a value on it. In most parts of the world gold is the symbol of wealth and money. It is the stuff of kings and empires. There is a huge value being placed on gold for those qualities. BUT that value ONLY exists if people think that gold = wealth. If that idea is ever lost, then gold will be like just any other metal and will trade primarily at the value placed on it by industrial consumers.

Yeah, I expect to see, given the bitcoin, that in not too distant future gold would be valued close to say, silver. They have similar metalic qualities (ok, silver rusts, but has additional medicinal value).
And there is a lot more above-ground gold in the world than there is silver!

[Trader Steve]

Some good articles addressing bitcoin as a new commodity in regards to Doug Casey's comments:

http://bitcointraining.wordpress.com/economics-of-bitcoin/

[Bitcoin Swami]

I recommend The Secret of Oz documentary to anyone that hasn't seen it.

http://youtu.be/swkq2E8mswI

[Bunghole]

I'm a long-time follower of Doug Casey and he's one of my most trusted sources, but I do think he's wrong about Bitcoin.  Saying that Bitcoin crashed to one cent is not really accurate - it was only on one exchange and was due to a fraud or anomaly.  It's not like people were selling OTC for one cent.

[andes]

I recommend The Secret of Oz documentary to anyone that hasn't seen it.

http://youtu.be/swkq2E8mswI

Related thread:

The secret of oz [documentary]
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=21487.0

[YoYa]

We ARE going into a world war, after all.

Wait a minute.....WHAT!1?1!

No one told me! 

Defense shares still cheap?

[Travis]

I recommend The Secret of Oz documentary to anyone that hasn't seen it.

http://youtu.be/swkq2E8mswI

I stopped watching when they said the government should take control of the money supply, be the one to issue currency.

[foggyb]

good. then calculate the likelihood of something like that happening in your lifetime, and there is your risk for gold.

The rate of change in technology and society is increasing, its more likely than you think.

Its beginning to sound more plausible the more we continue these discussions.

The salt analogy is really a striking one. Roman soldier were paid in salt.

Here's an interesting story:

Mahatma Gandhi led at least 100,000 people on the "Dandi March" or "Salt Satyagraha", in which protesters made their own salt from the sea, which was illegal under British rule, as it avoided paying the "salt tax". This civil disobedience inspired millions of common people, and elevated the Indian independence movement from an elitist struggle to a national struggle.

Sound familiar?

[BCEmporium]

Why does everybody talks about gold as if it has any intrinsic value?! 

It have a conventional and relative value strengthened by ages, but no intrinsic value at all and not even many applications.
To not mention "GoldMoney" is just yet another name for "e-Gold" with a nicer template...

[andes]

I recommend The Secret of Oz documentary to anyone that hasn't seen it.
http://youtu.be/swkq2E8mswI

I stopped watching when they said the government should take control of the money supply, be the one to issue currency.

There is an ongoing discussion about this exact issue in this thread:
The secret of oz [documentary]
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=21487.0

[relative]

Yeah, I expect to see, given the bitcoin, that in not too distant future

the certitude on this board that bitcoin will be adopted as a form of payment, let alone replace gold, or even replace ANYTHING, is bubble-esque.

[andes]

Yeah, I expect to see, given the bitcoin, that in not too distant future

the certitude on this board that bitcoin will be adopted as a form of payment, let alone replace gold, or even replace ANYTHING, is bubble-esque.

Entrepreneurs have unrealistic expectations to the upside, and are blind to the downside potential of their projects. We owe the progress in the world to these kind of people!  

[Astrohacker]

From the article:

"But I have to say that I really do like GoldMoney. It does everything Bitcoin does – or did – but is backed by something of real value: gold. That means it’s not just an abstraction, but an actual store of wealth."

This reveals Doug's fallacy. Gold has physical properties like charge and density, not wealth. "Wealth" is not one of the properties of gold. The wealth of gold is something that is property of someone's brain; it is a reflection of what people believe. Is "being president" a property of Barack Obama? No. Rather, believing the claim "Barack Obama is president" is a property of many people. Likewise, gold being valuable is a property of all the people who believe it has value. Bitcoins have value in precisely the same way.

For some reason the "bitcoins have no intrinsic value" argument seems to be pretty common. Part of the argument comes from the fact that gold has properties like conductivity that make it useful in ways other than being a currency. But a currency does not need to have useful properties besides being a currency, as solidly proven by the existence of fiat currencies. Anyone who thinks that currencies must have use besides being a currency is willfully ignorant of the counterexample of fiat currencies.

[lonestranger]

Why does everybody talks about gold as if it has any intrinsic value?! 

It have a conventional and relative value strengthened by ages, but no intrinsic value at all and not even many applications.
To not mention "GoldMoney" is just yet another name for "e-Gold" with a nicer template...

Actually, e-gold was private; it didn't require the verification process. This makes the difference between them huge and it is also true with bitcoin.  Casey seems to miss the importance of the privacy feature of btc.

[Torminalis]

good. then calculate the likelihood of something like that happening in your lifetime, and there is your risk for gold.

The rate of change in technology and society is increasing, its more likely than you think.

Its beginning to sound more plausible the more we continue these discussions.

The salt analogy is really a striking one. Roman soldier were paid in salt.

Here's an interesting story:

Mahatma Gandhi led at least 100,000 people on the "Dandi March" or "Salt Satyagraha", in which protesters made their own salt from the sea, which was illegal under British rule, as it avoided paying the "salt tax". This civil disobedience inspired millions of common people, and elevated the Indian independence movement from an elitist struggle to a national struggle.

Sound familiar?

http://s3.amazonaws.com/giflix/gifs/kkpvqu7kmpfb.gif?AWSAccessKeyId=0NEMFYTS5VQ806HF9CR2&Expires=1308865438&Signature=Nf2sGI0yRGPK4d8%2BnegBAu4KMM0%3D

[Astrohacker]

I also find it odd that they appeal to the authority of Aristotle to determine what money is. Aristotle was one of the great minds of history, but he wasn't perfect. No one has ever been more wrong about anything that Aristotle was about physics. I don't think his is the final word on money either.

[CurbsideProphet]

There are many differences between gold and BTC's as have been mentioned.  One that seems to have eluded people is that gold is finite while BTC's are not.  Let me clarify, Bitcoins ARE finite but everything about this P2P currency is open source.  The model is easy to replicate.  Show me some sort of patent that protects Bitcoin from copycats.  If BTC become successful, what's stopping someone from making Bitcoinz, E-dollarz, P2Pcoins, etc. etc.

Nothing.

[relative]

I also find it odd that they appeal to the authority of Aristotle to determine what money is. Aristotle was one of the great minds of history, but he wasn't perfect. No one has ever been more wrong about anything that Aristotle was about physics. I don't think his is the final word on money either.

you can agree or disagree with that, it doesn't say anything about bitcoin.
specifically, whether bitcoin is the facebook of e-currencies, or the myspace of e-currencies.

[relative]

There are many differences between gold and BTC's as have been mentioned.  One that seems to have eluded people is that gold is finite while BTC's are not.  Let me clarify, Bitcoins ARE finite but everything about this P2P currency is open source.  The model is easy to replicate.  Show me some sort of patent that protects Bitcoin from copycats.  If BTC become successful, what's stopping someone from making Bitcoinz, E-dollarz, P2Pcoins, etc. etc.

I'd consider that not a risk for bitcoins, but the ultimate goal.
competing currencies.

[BCEmporium]

Casey seems to miss the importance of the privacy feature of btc.

Indeed, and this feature is one of the most appreciated these days, not only for shady purposes, but also for keep our habits to ourselves. Common payment gateways all over the internet collects statistics about how, when and what you buy to send you "specific" publicity. This alone sounds like "big brother" enough!
BTC brought a way of internet money to become actually money.

[dayfall]

Bitcoins had been trading as high as $30 each and dropped to $0.01 at one point. Since Bitcoins rest on nothing but confidence, it’s going to be hard to restore that confidence now that it’s lost.

Why do people keep saying that Bitcoin dropped to 0.01?  I don't think a thief selling someone else's coins should count.

And I don't remember confidence dropping either. 

[relative]

I'd consider 30$ the more ridiculous number out of the two.

there is no economy to speak of already, and the money supply grows by another 40% within the year alone.
the 2,6 million coins that are mined in a year equal 80 million dollars at 30$.

that means 80 million dollars have to come in to SUSTAIN this price!
(or miners don't sell as many, but that only means they expect to sell it for even more in the future).

I like the bitcoin concept and all this specuation doesn't make it worse, but I'm sorry, this is insanity.

[bitcool]

I'd consider 30$ the more ridiculous number out of the two.

there is no economy to speak of already, and the money supply grows by another 40% within the year alone.
the 2,6 million coins that are mined in a year equal 80 million dollars at 30$.

that means 80 million dollars have to come in to SUSTAIN this price!
(or miners don't sell as many, but that only means they expect to sell it for even more in the future).

I like the bitcoin concept and all this specuation doesn't make it worse, but I'm sorry, this is insanity.

If you really believe bitcoin is a good idea and it has potential, 80 million dollars a year is absolutely nothing.

Global FX currency trading volume is 5 trillion dollars PER DAY, that's 62,500 times as large.

[relative]

80 million dollar a year added, not traded.

[imperi]

I'd consider 30$ the more ridiculous number out of the two.

there is no economy to speak of already, and the money supply grows by another 40% within the year alone.
the 2,6 million coins that are mined in a year equal 80 million dollars at 30$.

that means 80 million dollars have to come in to SUSTAIN this price!
(or miners don't sell as many, but that only means they expect to sell it for even more in the future).

I like the bitcoin concept and all this specuation doesn't make it worse, but I'm sorry, this is insanity.

If you really believe bitcoin is a good idea and it has potential, 80 million dollars a year is absolutely nothing.

Global FX currency trading volume is 5 trillion dollars PER DAY, that's 62,500 times as large.

Bitcoins don't trade anywhere near 80 million per day. It's usually 100k - 1 million, when MtGox isn't down.

[bitcool]

80 million dollar a year added, not traded.

Understood. The point was, $80m may seem to be a lot for a business or a stock, but a negligible number in the currency world.

[cypherdoc]

Yeah, I expect to see, given the bitcoin, that in not too distant future

the certitude on this board that bitcoin will be adopted as a form of payment, let alone replace gold, or even replace ANYTHING, is bubble-esque.

personally, i just liquidated 24 oz of gold bullion.  last month liquidated 7 bags of silver.  all so i could buy....

[bitcool]

Yeah, I expect to see, given the bitcoin, that in not too distant future

the certitude on this board that bitcoin will be adopted as a form of payment, let alone replace gold, or even replace ANYTHING, is bubble-esque.

personally, i just liquidated 24 oz of gold bullion.  last month liquidated 7 bags of silver.  all so i could buy....

Wow, that's like more than $200K? You are my hero.

[relative]

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=21702.0

summarized my point there...so I don't (have to) spam different threads with the same stuff

[lonestranger]

I'd consider 30$ the more ridiculous number out of the two.

there is no economy to speak of already, and the money supply grows by another 40% within the year alone.
the 2,6 million coins that are mined in a year equal 80 million dollars at 30$.

that means 80 million dollars have to come in to SUSTAIN this price!
(or miners don't sell as many, but that only means they expect to sell it for even more in the future).

I like the bitcoin concept and all this specuation doesn't make it worse, but I'm sorry, this is insanity.

Bitcoin seems to be the first currency in history that offers both privacy and portability across police state borders. When people realize its true potential they covet it. (Notice the bloke above who is divesting gold and silver to own bitcoin.) This appears to be a real phenomenon. And it's just getting started.

Unfortunately, bitcoin will probably suffer the same fate as gold, silver, (and goldmoney), and that is that the commodity itself is so precious that it is hoarded instead of traded. Why get rid of bitcoins (or gold, silver) when one can part with funny colored paper whose value is yanked around by crooks?  (real money crowds out bad)

[tavi]

I'd consider 30$ the more ridiculous number out of the two.

there is no economy to speak of already, and the money supply grows by another 40% within the year alone.
the 2,6 million coins that are mined in a year equal 80 million dollars at 30$.

that means 80 million dollars have to come in to SUSTAIN this price!
(or miners don't sell as many, but that only means they expect to sell it for even more in the future).

I like the bitcoin concept and all this specuation doesn't make it worse, but I'm sorry, this is insanity.

Bitcoin seems to be the first currency in history that offers both privacy and portability across police state borders. When people realize its true potential they covet it. (Notice the bloke above who is divesting gold and silver to own bitcoin.) This appears to be a real phenomenon. And it's just getting started.

Unfortunately, bitcoin will probably suffer the same fate as gold, silver, (and goldmoney), and that is that the commodity itself is so precious that it is hoarded instead of traded. Why get rid of bitcoins (or gold, silver) when one can part with funny colored paper whose value is yanked around by crooks?  (real money crowds out bad)

Gresham's law, sure.
But no worries mate, people gotta eat sometimes and buy themselves nice things, so good money (bitcoin) will be circulating.

[hugolp]

Bitcoin seems to be the first currency in history that offers both privacy and portability across police state borders. When people realize its true potential they covet it. (Notice the bloke above who is divesting gold and silver to own bitcoin.) This appears to be a real phenomenon. And it's just getting started.

Unfortunately, bitcoin will probably suffer the same fate as gold, silver, (and goldmoney), and that is that the commodity itself is so precious that it is hoarded instead of traded. Why get rid of bitcoins (or gold, silver) when one can part with funny colored paper whose value is yanked around by crooks?  (real money crowds out bad)

Real money crowds out bad (Gresham law) ONLY IF there is a fixed exchange rate between the two. If they are feely allowed to float Gresham law does not apply. This is why you can still buy gold.

Gold and silver did not stopped being used as money because people hoarded them and disappeared from day to day use. Governments regulated to impose their currency, removing any competition.

[Gabi]

What i find so... interesting is how everyone can just send bitcoins with few clicks, no laws, regulamentations, contracts to accept bigger than a elephant or what else

[truthcracker]

Guess who has all their money in Gold?

Aside from being a pretty and maleable metal, I do not understand why Gold is valued any more highly than Bitcoins aside from the history of trading. Gold is no more 'backed' than Bitcoins, you can't eat either at the end of the day.

Imagine your DR Who from the TV show with a time machine.  You can go back anytime you want in 4,000 years but you don't know which year.  What do you bring as a currency to trade?

[BCEmporium]

Imagine your DR Who from the TV show with a time machine.  You can go back anytime you want in 4,000 years but you don't know which year.  What do you bring as a currency to trade?

But that just means one thing; gold has been around longer.
Like saying that next year will appear NetCoin, it will actually take off and 100 years from now is the regular currency. A person living at such age with a time machine wants to visit our year. He would better bring Bitcoins because Netcoins are yet unknown.

[Gabi]

Guess who has all their money in Gold?

Aside from being a pretty and maleable metal, I do not understand why Gold is valued any more highly than Bitcoins aside from the history of trading. Gold is no more 'backed' than Bitcoins, you can't eat either at the end of the day.

Imagine your DR Who from the TV show with a time machine.  You can go back anytime you want in 4,000 years but you don't know which year.  What do you bring as a currency to trade?

What about aluminium? 

[billyjoeallen]

Guess who has all their money in Gold?

Aside from being a pretty and maleable metal, I do not understand why Gold is valued any more highly than Bitcoins aside from the history of trading. Gold is no more 'backed' than Bitcoins, you can't eat either at the end of the day.

Imagine your DR Who from the TV show with a time machine.  You can go back anytime you want in 4,000 years but you don't know which year.  What do you bring as a currency to trade?

Triganic PU. (look it up)

[dayfall]

Triganic PU. (look it up)

So Bitcoin will become either the Altairian Dollar, the Flainian Pobble Bead or the Triganic Pu.

Also, Gold has no value in the future as some of us have learned on The Twilight Zone.  For the past, I would bring silver.  Gold is way overpriced based on the historical ratio.

[stick_theman]

personally, i just liquidated 24 oz of gold bullion.  last month liquidated 7 bags of silver.  all so i could buy....

Wow, RESPECT!  That's an impressive BTC stack you have.  This makes my little operation seems like a joke.  LOL.  I emptied out my 0.14 BTC bank account last night.