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Author Topic: Are Bitcoins a Good Investment?  (Read 1475 times)
jml
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May 24, 2013, 09:13:38 PM
 #21

An investment perspective doesn't necessarily have "economic morality". The guy who posted this asked if it was a good investment. What he is likely to have meant is: will I profit from this?

I know you mean well but I don't need a lecture on economics or on the iniquity of the prevailing monetary system. I am well aware of that iniquity. What you need to realize is that bitcoin means different things to different people. Some people are committed to bitcoin as a political phenomenon that represents economic freedom, and you seem to fall into that category. Some people are just curious about it some people are interested in it from a technological perspective (interested in the cryptography). Some people are just interested in speculating in bitcoin and have little if any interest in its political implications. Without further information I have to assume that the guy who posted asking whether bitcoin is a good investment falls into that category, as do you.



I agree on your point that people have a different meaning and based on the resources I have posted, the answer is simply no and the reason is that Bitcoins liquidity is dependent on fiat currencies which can either rise or fall based on speculation. It's value is also determined by confidence (Look at bitfloor's case when BTC value slumped) which is what I was stating before on my post. If Bitcoins was backed by "the gold standard", then I would say it is a "safe" investment.

What I wanted to demonstrate to the OP is the underlying reason of why Bitcoin was created; it represents freedom from central banks which is what we really need.

"Everything is a matter of degree"
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May 24, 2013, 09:16:18 PM
 #22

If you are looking at bitcoin as an investment then you must consider it very high risk and its position in your portfolio must reflect that. The volatility of bitcoin is well known. This means it can be very profitable or it can be ruinous.

But over all it's profitable. If you keep your coins long enough they will go up in value, you just have to wait for the difficulty to go up Smiley

The idea that Bitcoin value goes up as difficulty increases is somewhat naive, I believe.

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May 24, 2013, 09:17:49 PM
 #23

i think bitcoins are a good source of investment. i think the real question is at what point do you sell? if you're in it for the long run, then hypothetically speaking by the time the value has increased substantially, then you might as well spend your coins instead of selling them. the second part to that question is what is the long term value of btc? 10k? 100k? 1m? lets hope more Smiley

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May 24, 2013, 09:22:08 PM
 #24

If you're asking is bitcoin a "Sound investment" ("financially strong, secure, or reliable"), the answer would be not even close. Investing in bitcoin is absolutely speculation (read: gambling), but even I admit there is a certain amount of cultism behind it that will keep the price propped up to certain lengths. When bitcoin is useful for more than buying coffee and ugly strippers on reddit, it may be a better investment. Being a good or bad investment has never stopped people before though. Do what you believe is right as some things aren't about money, even literal internet money.


Well if you write for Devtome you get your bitcoins for free, which isn't gambling at all Smiley

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maz
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May 24, 2013, 09:28:32 PM
 #25

For me, the idea of using bitcoins to pay for wares and services is the similar analogy pulling up a big finger to greedy bankers as they impose an interest on the money loaned from central banks to Governments which is then passed on to you; the hard working people. This is why I use Bitcoins and screw the pound, dollar, euro, etc.

This is the key right here. ^

I know hundreds of non-technical people who haven't even heard of bitcoin but given half a chance to join this ideology would jump at it. It's only a matter of time before getting them on board will be easier.
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May 24, 2013, 10:47:48 PM
 #26

For me, the idea of using bitcoins to pay for wares and services is the similar analogy pulling up a big finger to greedy bankers as they impose an interest on the money loaned from central banks to Governments which is then passed on to you; the hard working people. This is why I use Bitcoins and screw the pound, dollar, euro, etc.

This is the key right here. ^

I know hundreds of non-technical people who haven't even heard of bitcoin but given half a chance to join this ideology would jump at it. It's only a matter of time before getting them on board will be easier.

The main selling point to non-techies is that bitcoin is an alternative to banks. Hopefully as bitcoin becomes more widely adopted it will put pressure on banks to reduce fees and become more competitive. In the end the consumer wins regardless of whether they use btc or not.
jml
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May 24, 2013, 11:06:07 PM
 #27

For me, the idea of using bitcoins to pay for wares and services is the similar analogy pulling up a big finger to greedy bankers as they impose an interest on the money loaned from central banks to Governments which is then passed on to you; the hard working people. This is why I use Bitcoins and screw the pound, dollar, euro, etc.

This is the key right here. ^

I know hundreds of non-technical people who haven't even heard of bitcoin but given half a chance to join this ideology would jump at it. It's only a matter of time before getting them on board will be easier.

The main selling point to non-techies is that bitcoin is an alternative to banks. Hopefully as bitcoin becomes more widely adopted it will put pressure on banks to reduce fees and become more competitive. In the end the consumer wins regardless of whether they use btc or not.

That will never happen. This has been going on since the existence of paper money back in the 10th century. Even the founding fathers of the US (Thomas Jefferson) warned that centralised banks are a danger to its freedoms. He said the following:

Thomas Jefferson (3rd US President)
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

Andrew Jackson (7th US President)
"If congress has the right under the Constitution to issue paper money, it was  given them to use themselves, not to be delegated to individuals or corporations. -Andrew Jackson"

His last words were, "I killed the Bank".

When Woodrow Wilson signed the Dec 23rd Federal Reserve Act

Despite these warnings, Woodrow Wilson signed the 1913 Federal Reserve Act. A few years later he wrote: I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of  credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most  completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a  Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men. -Woodrow  Wilson

Others wrote:

“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and money system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.” Henry Ford, founder of the Ford Motor Company.

Red shield banker of UK: Look up Jacob Rothschild (France) and Nathan Rothschild (UK) funding the battle of Waterloo.

“Let me issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who writes the laws.” Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744-1812), founder of the House of Rothschild.

History is repeating itself don't you think? We have a responsibility to rise up against this menace or do you think they are too big to fail? We are the masses and we should dictate what we use to exchange value, not the few elites.

"Everything is a matter of degree"
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May 24, 2013, 11:13:45 PM
 #28

That will never happen. This has been going on since the existence of money back in the 10th century. Even the founding fathers of the US (Thomas Jefferson) warned that centralised banks are a danger to its freedoms. He said the following:

Thomas Jefferson (3rd US President)
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private ...

Nice post. Thats why bitcoin will be so popular.
jml
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May 24, 2013, 11:20:52 PM
 #29

That will never happen. This has been going on since the existence of money back in the 10th century. Even the founding fathers of the US (Thomas Jefferson) warned that centralised banks are a danger to its freedoms. He said the following:

Thomas Jefferson (3rd US President)
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private ...

Nice post. Thats why bitcoin will be so popular.

If you want to dig deeper, look for Red shield banks.

"Everything is a matter of degree"
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May 24, 2013, 11:24:57 PM
 #30

I think Bitcoin is a true investment because there is a limited amount, and the block chain gets more and more difficult AND releases less coins which will raise the value.

Eventually people will be trading Satoshi the way we trade bitcoins, and since that hasn't started yet, it truly is a good investment right now.

If everyone is thinking outside the box, there is a new box.
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May 24, 2013, 11:27:16 PM
 #31

I think it's a good investment so long as you buy low and sell high.  The fact that people are exchanging real money to buy this "virtual" money is a good indication that bitcoin will always hold some kind of value.
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May 25, 2013, 09:17:27 AM
 #32

Something being in limited supply is a good property for a store of value but it does not guarantee that that thing will always be valuable. Other cryptocurrencies have had a limited supply and their value has utterly dissolved. 

Jml:some great quotations there. Really interesting.
gcgipson
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May 25, 2013, 09:30:08 AM
 #33

In the long run BitCoin is a good investment.  BitCoin's many advantages, combined with the fact that online merchants are totally unaware of those advantages for right now, means that BitCoin will rise in value.  Not being able to accept payments from anyone in the world, high credit card fees, credit card merchants shutting down your business on a whim, charge backs....these are all problems that bitcoin solves, but merchants are totally unaware of it.  In fact, I believe the powers that be have a negative PR campaign against bitcoin to slow or stop its adoption.  However, the global economy all but ensures that BitCoin MUST happen on a wide scale, which in turn means that bitcoin's value must rise in the long term as well.
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May 25, 2013, 09:47:06 AM
 #34

Bitcoin is a good investment, but a possible investitor should not believe that it is enough to leave them there to get rich, that sadly it's what many believe.

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May 25, 2013, 09:54:18 AM
 #35

No one know what exchange rate of bitcoin will be in 5 years, so expect this "investment" as very risky. You could loose big, retain value or have good profit - no one know.
gambit1
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May 25, 2013, 10:06:47 AM
 #36

"No one know what exchange rate of bitcoin will be in 5 years, so expect this "investment" as very risky. You could loose big, retain value or have good profit - no one know."

Is right. At least with the political angle you can't lose, if you believe in it.
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May 25, 2013, 10:26:30 AM
 #37

That is only true when an authority like the state enforces the use of bad money and merchants to accept it
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May 25, 2013, 10:28:55 AM
 #38

They're a store of wealth, not an investment, treat them like a more volatile gold and silver.
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May 25, 2013, 11:09:22 AM
 #39

Depends a which end your in when it crashes.
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May 25, 2013, 02:28:03 PM
 #40

In the long run BitCoin is a good investment.  BitCoin's many advantages, combined with the fact that online merchants are totally unaware of those advantages for right now, means that BitCoin will rise in value.  Not being able to accept payments from anyone in the world, high credit card fees, credit card merchants shutting down your business on a whim, charge backs....these are all problems that bitcoin solves, but merchants are totally unaware of it.  In fact, I believe the powers that be have a negative PR campaign against bitcoin to slow or stop its adoption.  However, the global economy all but ensures that BitCoin MUST happen on a wide scale, which in turn means that bitcoin's value must rise in the long term as well.

It's the same thing Alcohol and Paper do against MJ, it's basically just lobbying. The people with money pay so that they don't have to switch to the new thing, and the way they do that is by trying to make it look like a bad idea.

If everyone is thinking outside the box, there is a new box.
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