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Author Topic: Which Bitcoin amount could be the max to exchange to fiat?  (Read 1361 times)
sebr1ng
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September 07, 2017, 07:49:41 AM
 #1

Maybe this is a bit phylosophical topic, but the other day I was wondering at which Bitcoin amount it doesn't matter anymore if you're getting more Bitcoin, since you can't exchange it to fiat.

Example:
At the current price of app. 4500 $ per BTC you can exchange to fiat:
100 BTC = 450.000 $ / no problem
1.000 BTC = 4.500.000 $ / a bit of problem
10.000 BTC = 45.000.000 $ / a problem
100.000 BTC = 450.000.000 $ / a big problem
...

See where I'm going? And that's at the current price. I could get even more interesting when the price will be 10.000 $ per Bitcoin or even more. 

How do you exchange 45M$? or 450M? So does it make any difference if you hodl 10.000 BTC or 100.000 BTC, since you can't exchange it to fiat anyway without raising suspicion, even if you're very well connected?

What would be the breaking or maybe maximum point of Bitcoin still exhangeable to fiat?
What's your take on that?
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September 07, 2017, 08:41:44 AM
 #2

Maybe this is a bit phylosophical topic, but the other day I was wondering at which Bitcoin amount it doesn't matter anymore if you're getting more Bitcoin, since you can't exchange it to fiat.

Example:
At the current price of app. 4500 $ per BTC you can exchange to fiat:
100 BTC = 450.000 $ / no problem
1.000 BTC = 4.500.000 $ / a bit of problem
10.000 BTC = 45.000.000 $ / a problem
100.000 BTC = 450.000.000 $ / a big problem
...

See where I'm going? And that's at the current price. I could get even more interesting when the price will be 10.000 $ per Bitcoin or even more. 

How do you exchange 45M$? or 450M? So does it make any difference if you hodl 10.000 BTC or 100.000 BTC, since you can't exchange it to fiat anyway without raising suspicion, even if you're very well connected?

What would be the breaking or maybe maximum point of Bitcoin still exhangeable to fiat?
What's your take on that?

I feel like at some level, you run into this issue with normal currency trading itself. You can't simply go to a currency exchange booth and say that you have 5 million in USD that you need converted to Euros asap. That will be an issue and almost just as impossible as getting the bitcoin converted. I think it's too tough and early to make any statements of the Bitcoin availability for high level currency exchange.

This area is up for grabs! PM me if you're interested.
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September 07, 2017, 09:01:22 AM
 #3

Maybe this is a bit phylosophical topic, but the other day I was wondering at which Bitcoin amount it doesn't matter anymore if you're getting more Bitcoin, since you can't exchange it to fiat.

Example:
At the current price of app. 4500 $ per BTC you can exchange to fiat:
100 BTC = 450.000 $ / no problem
1.000 BTC = 4.500.000 $ / a bit of problem
10.000 BTC = 45.000.000 $ / a problem
100.000 BTC = 450.000.000 $ / a big problem
...

See where I'm going? And that's at the current price. I could get even more interesting when the price will be 10.000 $ per Bitcoin or even more. 

How do you exchange 45M$? or 450M? So does it make any difference if you hodl 10.000 BTC or 100.000 BTC, since you can't exchange it to fiat anyway without raising suspicion, even if you're very well connected?

What would be the breaking or maybe maximum point of Bitcoin still exhangeable to fiat?
What's your take on that?
Why not convert it bit by bit? One would get problems if he/she converted too much of btc to fiat. In that cases owner should convert it by only sending 100 bitcoin at most per conversion and just wait for a week before converting again. Either way he/she is still in profit if the price of bitcoin dumped next week because most of those who holds that much bought it in low price anyway.
sebr1ng
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September 07, 2017, 09:06:17 AM
 #4

Yeah, I agree, that you can do it gradually, or even to travel around the world and converting at BTC atms in different countries.

But I was thinking more about if you want to "legally" convert and also pay tax - everything by the book - but which bank can cash out 450 million Euro? or 1 billion? That could be a problem.
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September 07, 2017, 09:08:50 AM
Last edit: September 07, 2017, 10:29:41 AM by Hydrogen
 #5

Good question. Many banks cover up to $100,000 insurance where sums over $100,000 are not insured. In exchanging btc to fiat avoiding sums over $100k could work in principle. Other concerns might be things like transfer fees and the amount of interest yield on deposit. IRA roth and other "high interest yield" savings accounts could be one option for those who intend to save their converted btc in fiat. Another option could be converting to fiat to invest in stocks, bonds & other investments. DRIP (dividend reinvestment plan) could be a good option there.

Its difficult to imagine a scenario where btc is difficult to convert to fiat. If someday 1 satoshi (0.00000001 btc) is worth more than $100,000 there might be some difficulties finding a basic bank account to keep it in to insure your money. But if 1 satoshi was ever worth that much I think most of us would say the benefits are far outweighing any negative drawbacks.

sebr1ng
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September 07, 2017, 09:22:13 AM
 #6

My bank also has the limit - 150.000 EUR; so my plan would be to cash out and invest in real estate to avoid possible risk involving crypto (I'd do that with a portion and keep the majority in crypto). The real estate would then generate additional revenue stream in fiat.
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September 07, 2017, 09:51:35 AM
 #7

Maybe this is a bit phylosophical topic, but the other day I was wondering at which Bitcoin amount it doesn't matter anymore if you're getting more Bitcoin, since you can't exchange it to fiat.

Example:
At the current price of app. 4500 $ per BTC you can exchange to fiat:
100 BTC = 450.000 $ / no problem
1.000 BTC = 4.500.000 $ / a bit of problem
10.000 BTC = 45.000.000 $ / a problem
100.000 BTC = 450.000.000 $ / a big problem
...

See where I'm going? And that's at the current price. I could get even more interesting when the price will be 10.000 $ per Bitcoin or even more. 

How do you exchange 45M$? or 450M? So does it make any difference if you hodl 10.000 BTC or 100.000 BTC, since you can't exchange it to fiat anyway without raising suspicion, even if you're very well connected?

What would be the breaking or maybe maximum point of Bitcoin still exhangeable to fiat?
What's your take on that?

if this is the case, i won't exchange all of my bitcoin into fiat, i just let it in bitcoin amount but i only exchange for small amount that will not make the banks suspicious with my account. i'd better to play safe than making third party service investigate me and asked me from where the money that i got. beside that, i feel comfort if no one asked me how much my finance especially the bank and the government.

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September 07, 2017, 09:56:54 AM
 #8

Why such amount of cash? If you for some reason don't trust bitcoin or not you believe that the price of bitcoin will rise you can exchange to buy dollars and out on different people. This is not a problem. It would be a desire but a way is always there.
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September 07, 2017, 10:00:46 AM
 #9

Maybe this is a bit phylosophical topic, but the other day I was wondering at which Bitcoin amount it doesn't matter anymore if you're getting more Bitcoin, since you can't exchange it to fiat.

Example:
At the current price of app. 4500 $ per BTC you can exchange to fiat:
100 BTC = 450.000 $ / no problem
1.000 BTC = 4.500.000 $ / a bit of problem
10.000 BTC = 45.000.000 $ / a problem
100.000 BTC = 450.000.000 $ / a big problem
...

See where I'm going? And that's at the current price. I could get even more interesting when the price will be 10.000 $ per Bitcoin or even more. 

How do you exchange 45M$? or 450M? So does it make any difference if you hodl 10.000 BTC or 100.000 BTC, since you can't exchange it to fiat anyway without raising suspicion, even if you're very well connected?

What would be the breaking or maybe maximum point of Bitcoin still exhangeable to fiat?
What's your take on that?

Even using majorly fiat, there is a limit to the amount you can move at once without providing an explanation both as an individual or as an organisation and those that move huge amount, there are already laid down rules and regulations to achieve that. Even if government decides to legalize bitcoin, there would still be some level of restriction on the maximum that would be flagged. For now, I think the equivalent of $10000 maximum can be moved without any issue.
ArrogantPeacock
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September 07, 2017, 10:05:18 AM
 #10

Who will exchange 450 million?

The same concept can be applied to shares/currencies/gold

There are people who own 450 million of "A" shares but no one liquidates the entire thing in one day

Besides what will you do with 450 million dollars, there is hardly anything worth that much to buy
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September 07, 2017, 10:06:47 AM
 #11

Hmm, indeed everything you say makes sense or is at the right point. Because there is a possibility that it has a problem if what we do in bitcoin is to sell many bitcoins at the same time, But you need to know that market in bitcoin is very big every day. so I think to sell 100.000 BTC is something easy, because we can do it in a few days. now the question is is it you can get bitcoin that much in a short time .. ?? , this is something that is not necessary to be discussed because it is definitely that much money we can get if indeed we have bitcoin
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September 07, 2017, 10:20:50 AM
 #12

I don't see how could this be a problem. Why would you exchange huge amounts of fiat worth of bitcoin? If BTC has a big value, and you have a lot of them, you just exchange small amounts of BTC, that are accepted. That happens with everything you hold I guess, not just bitcoin. If you think you have so many BTC that you can't spend them in your life time, why don't you just donate some. Again, I don't really see this as a problem.

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ankylotic
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September 07, 2017, 10:36:06 AM
 #13

Yeah, I agree, that you can do it gradually, or even to travel around the world and converting at BTC atms in different countries.

But I was thinking more about if you want to "legally" convert and also pay tax - everything by the book - but which bank can cash out 450 million Euro? or 1 billion? That could be a problem.
i don't know any exchange which is supporting usd or euro but i think the fiat i am using to save is chinese yen and it is available on bter exchange and most of the chinese use it to exchange in bitcoin and for converting bitcoin to the exchange to my country fait i use local bitcoin i think it is really a trusted site to watch.
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September 07, 2017, 10:41:35 AM
 #14

It's not philosophical at all, it is a practical subject. Whales have to deal with this problem every single day. If they sell then it would likely mean that they have to take a much lesser rate on average for all their coins.

On Bitstamp, there is around 200 BTC worth of bids for bitcoin above the $4500 level. Cashing out 200 BTC shouldn't be a problem at all, if you spread your funds out on several exchanges instead of dumping on just one. Even localbitcoins traders can facilitate 200+ BTC trades sometimes.

There is no maximum. As long as there are buyers, bitcoin can be converted into fiat. What matters is the price you're getting them for. A 1k BTC dump could potentially mean you are getting on average 5% less for your coins than the spot price when you started selling. I'd say that anything above 5k dump would mean major market disruption.

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September 07, 2017, 11:32:17 AM
 #15

Maybe this is a bit phylosophical topic, but the other day I was wondering at which Bitcoin amount it doesn't matter anymore if you're getting more Bitcoin, since you can't exchange it to fiat.

Example:
At the current price of app. 4500 $ per BTC you can exchange to fiat:
100 BTC = 450.000 $ / no problem
1.000 BTC = 4.500.000 $ / a bit of problem
10.000 BTC = 45.000.000 $ / a problem
100.000 BTC = 450.000.000 $ / a big problem
...

See where I'm going? And that's at the current price. I could get even more interesting when the price will be 10.000 $ per Bitcoin or even more. 

How do you exchange 45M$? or 450M? So does it make any difference if you hodl 10.000 BTC or 100.000 BTC, since you can't exchange it to fiat anyway without raising suspicion, even if you're very well connected?

What would be the breaking or maybe maximum point of Bitcoin still exhangeable to fiat?
What's your take on that?

The only thing that could drive the price up to those sort of levels would be BTC becoming mainstream. That is excepted by banks, exchanges and the rest of the financial industry. If that happens then it would be possible to convert as it would just be another currency, trillions of dollars are exchanged on the world forex markets every day. You might face some tax issues and be explaining where you got it from but that's a different issue.

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September 07, 2017, 11:43:38 AM
Last edit: September 07, 2017, 12:02:45 PM by gentlemand
 #16

100.000 BTC = 450.000.000 $ / a big problem

Nope.

https://www.cryptoninjas.net/2017/06/08/cumberland-mining-offers-convert-bitcoin-held-mt-gox-cash/

This OTC broker offered a deal to buy all 202,000 coins in one deal.

No one with a significant amount of BTC should sell it on an exchange. There are extremely deep pockets off market.

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September 07, 2017, 11:55:01 AM
 #17

Maybe this is a bit phylosophical topic, but the other day I was wondering at which Bitcoin amount it doesn't matter anymore if you're getting more Bitcoin, since you can't exchange it to fiat.

Example:
At the current price of app. 4500 $ per BTC you can exchange to fiat:
100 BTC = 450.000 $ / no problem
1.000 BTC = 4.500.000 $ / a bit of problem
10.000 BTC = 45.000.000 $ / a problem
100.000 BTC = 450.000.000 $ / a big problem
...

See where I'm going? And that's at the current price. I could get even more interesting when the price will be 10.000 $ per Bitcoin or even more. 

How do you exchange 45M$? or 450M? So does it make any difference if you hodl 10.000 BTC or 100.000 BTC, since you can't exchange it to fiat anyway without raising suspicion, even if you're very well connected?

What would be the breaking or maybe maximum point of Bitcoin still exhangeable to fiat?
What's your take on that?

Those high amounts you stated will not be a problem since Im sure no one will dump their coins at once. I can't imagined someone will sold all of their 100,000 BTC just to convert on fiat. Also the amount will depend on the exchange limits no matter how big your bitcoin is.

In here you need long period of time before you can convert all your bitcoin to fiat if you really need to cashout it all or maybe you can find a person who like to do big trades at once to avoid exchanges limit.

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September 07, 2017, 12:03:17 PM
 #18

Maybe this is a bit phylosophical topic, but the other day I was wondering at which Bitcoin amount it doesn't matter anymore if you're getting more Bitcoin, since you can't exchange it to fiat.

Example:
At the current price of app. 4500 $ per BTC you can exchange to fiat:
100 BTC = 450.000 $ / no problem
1.000 BTC = 4.500.000 $ / a bit of problem
10.000 BTC = 45.000.000 $ / a problem
100.000 BTC = 450.000.000 $ / a big problem
...

See where I'm going? And that's at the current price. I could get even more interesting when the price will be 10.000 $ per Bitcoin or even more. 

How do you exchange 45M$? or 450M? So does it make any difference if you hodl 10.000 BTC or 100.000 BTC, since you can't exchange it to fiat anyway without raising suspicion, even if you're very well connected?

What would be the breaking or maybe maximum point of Bitcoin still exhangeable to fiat?
What's your take on that?
I, for one, look forward to having this "problem" some day.

"Woe is me.  I am having trouble converting my billions of dollars worth of Bitcoin to goods and services.  If only I had sold all my Bitcoins at $100 each then I would not be faced with such a difficult problem."

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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September 07, 2017, 12:12:08 PM
 #19

Unfortunately I don't have such large amount of Bitcoins to exchange but in my country everything above 100 BTC could reoresent a huge problem, especialy if the bank account is involved. The reason for that are anti money laundering laws and duty of all financial institutions and services to report such amounts. So, for this large amount of money financial investigstion could be condacted to establish the origin of funds.

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September 07, 2017, 12:14:55 PM
 #20

Unfortunately I don't have such large amount of Bitcoins to exchange but in my country everything above 100 BTC could reoresent a huge problem, especialy if the bank account is involved. The reason for that are anti money laundering laws and duty of all financial institutions and services to report such amounts. So, for this large amount of money financial investigstion could be condacted to establish the origin of funds.

Then keep a record of your Bitcoin buys and keep track of all your private keys. If you paid for it legitimately and sold it legitimately there's no problem.

It's no different than selling a classic car or painting. It's something you own that you've sold.

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