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Author Topic: Liberty Reserve the popular digital currency got shut down by the authorities  (Read 7712 times)
idev
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May 26, 2013, 07:41:25 PM
 #21

It will be fun to watch as Bitcoin businesses began scrambling to distance themselves from U.S. citizens. The current examples like SatoshiDice are only the beginning. I don't think it will be long before many businesses realize that it's just not worth it to pick on the biggest bully in the schoolyard.  

Unfortunate but true, many offshore banks, payment processors, e-currencies are now refusing to serve US customers.
It won't be long before US citizens are financially locked out of doing business with non US based financial companies.
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May 26, 2013, 07:46:32 PM
 #22

It will be fun to watch as Bitcoin businesses began scrambling to distance themselves from U.S. citizens. The current examples like SatoshiDice are only the beginning. I don't think it will be long before many businesses realize that it's just not worth it to pick on the biggest bully in the schoolyard. 
I don't think it will go beyond S.Dice. If some site owners will refuse U.S. users, someone else will accept them from USA-unfriendly country like Russia or China.

Perhaps, but I still feel that MtGox needs to leave Japan right now to avoid being caught up in the shitstorm that will happen when the Japanese government is solicited to assist the U.S. justice system. Any U.S. business records recovered from MtGox will be thoroughly researched for possible illegal transactions and if they have cut ties with the U.S. it will make their life easier. Once again, Erik Voorhees shows his business acumen by staying ahead of the curve.

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May 26, 2013, 08:19:53 PM
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Great news! A huge payment system used by many. Finally the crowd will obviously move to Bitcoin, as it has grown bigger than any non fiat based system ever. I guess its only a matter of time before Bitcoin swallows all non fiat systems. Liberty Reserve was actually the last and biggest of them all standing, now that is gone and it proves once again E-gold, LR and such systems are here to disappear.

<helo> funny that this proposal grows the maximum block size to 8GB, and is seen as a compromise
<helo> oh, you don't like a 20x increase? well how about 8192x increase?
<JackH> lmao
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May 26, 2013, 08:21:07 PM
 #24

It will be fun to watch as Bitcoin businesses began scrambling to distance themselves from U.S. citizens. The current examples like SatoshiDice are only the beginning. I don't think it will be long before many businesses realize that it's just not worth it to pick on the biggest bully in the schoolyard.  
I don't think it will go beyond S.Dice. If some site owners will refuse U.S. users, someone else will accept them from USA-unfriendly country like Russia or China.

Perhaps, but I still feel that MtGox needs to leave Japan right now to avoid being caught up in the shitstorm that will happen when the Japanese government is solicited to assist the U.S. justice system. Any U.S. business records recovered from MtGox will be thoroughly researched for possible illegal transactions and if they have cut ties with the U.S. it will make their life easier. Once again, Erik Voorhees shows his business acumen by staying ahead of the curve.

Are you sure that the japanese governemnet will allow that?

I went to business school in japan, and I don't think they will.

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May 26, 2013, 08:25:28 PM
 #25

Thus, the DOT's interpretation of BSA are going to be granted quite a bit of deference.  This won't ultimately matter when it comes to Mutum Sigilum's defense, but it is what matters in the long haul, when the DOT finally gets around to promulgating BTC regulations.

Could they write new regulations?  Sure, but they haven't done that yet.

Were Mutum Sigilum's actions prohibited under the current rules?  That's not so clear.

So, were the federal agencies acting "correctly" in taking down Mutum Sigilum?  I'm not sure that it matters.  Will the charges stick? Well, it isn't even clear what the charges will be just yet.  I am sure of one thing, though: it's going to be fun to read the briefs!

The basis of the seizure warrant was 18 USC section 1960.  So that's what we're dealing with right now.  Could the feds add some additional charges?  Sure, but that hasn't happened yet.  You're proposing a lot of hypotheticals, and it's not yet clear how this will play out.

You're right this is going to be an interesting case.

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May 26, 2013, 08:52:35 PM
 #26

It will be fun to watch as Bitcoin businesses began scrambling to distance themselves from U.S. citizens. The current examples like SatoshiDice are only the beginning. I don't think it will be long before many businesses realize that it's just not worth it to pick on the biggest bully in the schoolyard.  
I don't think it will go beyond S.Dice. If some site owners will refuse U.S. users, someone else will accept them from USA-unfriendly country like Russia or China.

Perhaps, but I still feel that MtGox needs to leave Japan right now to avoid being caught up in the shitstorm that will happen when the Japanese government is solicited to assist the U.S. justice system. Any U.S. business records recovered from MtGox will be thoroughly researched for possible illegal transactions and if they have cut ties with the U.S. it will make their life easier. Once again, Erik Voorhees shows his business acumen by staying ahead of the curve.

Are you sure that the japanese governemnet will allow that?

I went to business school in japan, and I don't think they will.

As long as this is the Japanese military I'll have my doubts about the independence of the Japanese government. http://www.stripes.com/news/some-normalcy-returns-to-bases-relief-for-japanese-rolls-in-1.137612

dan99
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May 29, 2013, 06:04:00 AM
 #27

Thanks all for the sharing , here is some more news : Liberty Reserve Founder Indicted on $6 Billion Money-Laundering ...
Wired-13 hours ago
The founder of digital currency system Liberty Reserve has been indicted in the United States along with six other people in a $6 billion ...

Feds shut down payment network Liberty Reserve. Is Bitcoin next?
Washington Post (blog)-by Ezra Klein-11 hours ago
Federal prosecutors have shut down Liberty Reserve, an alternative payment network that they say was a $6 billion scam “designed to help ...

Note their story on Bitcoin ....>>

Of course, that description could just as easily describe Bitcoin. Anyone can create a new address for accepting bitcoins and then transmit funds to other Bitcoin addresses without furnishing identifying information. This feature has raised concerns that the currency has been used for activities such as drug dealing or illegal gambling.

The U.S. government faults Liberty Reserve for requiring users to fund their accounts through intermediaries called “exchangers.” In the prosecutors’ view, these intermediaries helped the core Liberty Reserve network avoid collecting identifying information about their users. The Bitcoin economy has a similar structure. Users buy bitcoins with conventional currencies via online exchanges. Some of these intermediaries do collect information about their users, but once users have purchased their bitcoins they can conduct unregulated, and practically untraceable, transactions with other Bitcoin users.

For their part, leaders of the Bitcoin community have tried to stay within the bounds of the law. ”If the U.S. government decided that Bitcoin was a bad thing and told me, ‘Stop doing what you’re doing,’ I’d stop doing what I’m doing,” said Gavin Andressen, Bitcoin’s lead developer, in a recent interview.

But there’s also at least one important difference between Bitcoin and Liberty Reserve: If the authorities concluded that Bitcoin were a money laundering scheme, it’s not clear whom they’d prosecute. There’s no Budovsky for Bitcoin. Rather, the online currency was created by “Satoshi Nakamoto,” widely regarded as a pseudonym. Bitcoin transactions are processed in a distributed fashion by thousands of “miners” around the world. It would be difficult for the United States to indict all of them, and doing so would likely drive Bitcoin mining underground — which could make it even more attractive to criminals.

That sprawling, decentralized network would create a dilemma for federal regulators if former Liberty Reserve users switched to Bitcoin. The crypto currency doesn’t fit well into existing money-laundering laws, and there’s no one who can be required to reform the network to bring it into compliance. Trying to shut down Bitcoin could prove futile — the feds can make life hard for individual Bitcoin users but likely could not destroy the network altogether.

Civil libertarians have long lauded the Internet’s ability to resist government’s efforts to control the flow of information. The emergence of Bitcoin could threaten the United States’ ability to control the flow of electronic funds, too.
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May 29, 2013, 05:01:20 PM
 #28

An indictment! Everyone gets an indictment! [/Oprah]

Marco Santori is a lawyer, but not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.  If you do have specific questions, though, please don't hesitate to PM me.  We've learned this forum isn't 100% secure, so you might prefer to email me.  Maybe I can help!  Depending upon your jurisdiction, this post might be construed as attorney advertising, so: attorney advertising Smiley
TheFootMan
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May 29, 2013, 10:03:28 PM
 #29

For their part, leaders of the Bitcoin community have tried to stay within the bounds of the law. ”If the U.S. government decided that Bitcoin was a bad thing and told me, ‘Stop doing what you’re doing,’ I’d stop doing what I’m doing,” said Gavin Andressen, Bitcoin’s lead developer, in a recent interview.

So that's true? He would just put his work down like that after being picked on by once by the US Govt ? Wonderful... 
dan99
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May 30, 2013, 07:21:36 AM
 #30

For their part, leaders of the Bitcoin community have tried to stay within the bounds of the law. ”If the U.S. government decided that Bitcoin was a bad thing and told me, ‘Stop doing what you’re doing,’ I’d stop doing what I’m doing,” said Gavin Andressen, Bitcoin’s lead developer, in a recent interview.

So that's true? He would just put his work down like that after being picked on by once by the US Govt ? Wonderful... 

That was what he say, but btc has a few developers ya..
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