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Author Topic: Oklahoma makes a use case for crypto currencies  (Read 487 times)
Thenoticer
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June 09, 2016, 03:53:07 PM
 #1

Oklahoma Police Can Seize Your Entire Bank Account on a Traffic Stop Without Any Charges


https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/north_america/americas-current-economy/oklahoma-police-can-seize-your-entire-bank-account-on-a-traffic-stop-without-any-charges-at-all/


The one state that has gone complete anti-democratic is Oklahoma. It is wise not to travel in that state at all. Oklahoma should be on a no-fly zone. Now, Oklahoma police can outright seize everything you have from debit cards to bank accounts on a traffic stop without any criminal charges being filed. If some policeman thinks you’re doing something illegal, your life is over. Without money, you cannot hire a lawyer and they can just rob everything you have on a whim.
The Oklahoma Highway Patrol has introduced a device called Electronic Recovery and Access to Data (ERAM) that allows police officers to seize money in your bank account or on prepaid cards. State police began using 16 of these machines last month, and now the police have become literal highway robbers. This makes the traffic cops in Russia, who you can bribe to go away if they pull you over for a speeding ticket, as a far more civilized arrangement. Here, they can rob you of everything.
Let’s say a state trooper suspects or just thinks you may have money tied to any sort of crime. He can now scan any cards you have and seize the money in your wallet. He does not have to charge you with a crime. There is no right to remain silent, for he is not charging you. He is after all your money because the governments is broke.
Oklahoma Highway Patrol Lt. John Vincent said, “We’re gonna look for if there’s a difference in your story. If there’s some way that we can prove that you’re falsifying information to us about your business.” So all he has to do is “believe” you lied about anything and he has the right to take everything you have. They justify this by claiming it is not about seizing money. Of course not. It is criminal prosecution but there is no crime. Forget innocent until proven guilty. That will not apply. They pretend the money committed the crime – not you.
This is simply nullifying the Constitution. You have absolutely ZERO rights. He can rob you of everything and leave you with not even enough money for gas. The police have become the criminals. This is precisely how Rome fell. When they could not pay the army, they began sacking their own cities. This is exactly what the police are doing now and there is nobody to defend us against this new criminal organization.
Just stay out of Oklahoma at all costs. If other states follow, you better migrate to another country and fast. Look for a country not based on common law (English countries). This will destroy the freedom to travel for broke police have become highway criminals with guns.
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americanpegasus
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June 09, 2016, 04:28:24 PM
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This is outright tyranny and the residents of Oklahoma should be out protesting and swarming their state's capital, screaming for the resignations of every single member of the state government. 
 
But they are not, because they are too busy eating cheeseburgers and watching Netflix while their civil liberties are stripped from them like the fattened slaves they have become. 
 
Meanwhile true and free men are saving their live's fortunes in anonymous and untraceable cryptocurrency like Monero because this technology isn't for criminals: it's for honest and hard working citizens who wish to remain free from tyrannical injustice.

Account is back under control of the real AmericanPegasus.
brekyrself
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June 09, 2016, 07:18:33 PM
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Some sources say it only works on pre-paid debit cards.  Pre-paid debit cards = cash thus the ability for easy seizure.  Regular bank accounts need more paperwork however see the link below on something truly scary.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-08/how-irs-used-civil-asset-forfeiture-ruin-lives-two-connecticut-bakers


Interesting point of sale system being worked on for businesses to accept crypto:
https://steemit.com/crypto-news/@kencode/smartcoins-pos-the-free-way-for-companies-to-accept-crypto-currencies
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,22576.0.html
64dimensions
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June 10, 2016, 01:09:40 AM
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I'm sorry paranoid robots, but the real story is different (from dhs.gov):

"During arrests of criminal couriers, law enforcement officers rarely find bundles of cash wrapped in rubber bands anymore. Instead, they find stacks of plastic cards — bank credit and debit cards, retail gift cards, library cards, hotel card keys, even magnetic-striped Metrorail cards — that have been turned into prepaid cards.

The Department of Homeland Security Science and Technology Directorate’s Electronic Recovery and Access to Data (ERAD) Prepaid Card Reader is becoming a vital tool for law enforcement seizing these cards and funds associated with criminal activity.Several credit cards, hotel key cards and other cards with magnetic strips

The ERAD Prepaid Card Reader is a small, handheld device that uses wireless connectivity to allow law enforcement officers in the field to check the balance of cards. This allows for identification of suspicious prepaid cards and the ability to put a temporary hold on the linked funds until a full investigation can be completed. The project, developed by S&T’s First Responder Group (FRG), began in March 2012.

“When we found out about the need for this technology from one of our DHS agency partners, we worked to develop the technology necessary to address this critical issue” explained FRG Program Manager Bill Deso. “They were seeing large numbers of prepaid cards during the performance of their duties, but had no way to check the balances on the cards. The ERAD Prepaid Card Reader now provides law enforcement personnel with this capability.”

This past April, the National Urban Security Technology Laboratory conducted an operational field assessment on the ERAD Prepaid Card Reader that included training, testing and a wrap-up roundtable discussion to solicit general feedback.

In addition to internal testing, the Prepaid Card Reader was employed in a recent operation when law enforcement seized approximately 1,000 cards from a suspected drug trafficker. With this technology they were able to identify more than $48,000 in funds that were loaded onto the cards. Since it was put into field testing, the Prepaid Card Reader has resulted in approximately $1 million dollars being seized by state and local law enforcement agencies from suspected criminal activity. 

“The Prepaid Card Reader has generated a lot of interest from our state and local law enforcement agency partners, and there is a growing demand by these agencies for use of this technology by their personnel,” said Deso. “It provides a unique tool for when they encounter suspect cards with magnetic strips during the performance of their duties.”" 

So:

1) It works on prepaid cards.

2) It checks the balance of cards.

3) It has the ability to put a temporary hold on the linked funds.

Unless someone is a complete doofus, what kind of person would carry a large number of PP cash cards?

I find the posted comments clueless, given the overall forum's meta purpose is bitcoin promulgation, bitcoin, in case you weren't aware of it, being a financial instrument that foster's 100% transparency with potentially zero friction. You clearly have no idea how lucky you are to live in this country. I encourage you to leave the stench of your video game man caves and experience the wider world.

 Finally,  there are several excellent reasons to avoid OK: "Oklahoma finishes 48th with a D+ grade in Education Week’s annual rankings." OK is 45th in state public health, High prevalence of obesity, high rate of cardiovascular deaths, limited availability of primary care physicians. Oklahoma Legislator Introduces Yet Another Bill to Permit Teaching of Creationism in Public Schools.

etc etc
brekyrself
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June 10, 2016, 01:19:31 AM
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I'm sorry paranoid robots, but the real story is different (from dhs.gov):

"During arrests of criminal couriers, law enforcement officers rarely find bundles of cash wrapped in rubber bands anymore. Instead, they find stacks of plastic cards — bank credit and debit cards, retail gift cards, library cards, hotel card keys, even magnetic-striped Metrorail cards — that have been turned into prepaid cards.

The Department of Homeland Security Science and Technology Directorate’s Electronic Recovery and Access to Data (ERAD) Prepaid Card Reader is becoming a vital tool for law enforcement seizing these cards and funds associated with criminal activity.Several credit cards, hotel key cards and other cards with magnetic strips

The ERAD Prepaid Card Reader is a small, handheld device that uses wireless connectivity to allow law enforcement officers in the field to check the balance of cards. This allows for identification of suspicious prepaid cards and the ability to put a temporary hold on the linked funds until a full investigation can be completed. The project, developed by S&T’s First Responder Group (FRG), began in March 2012.

“When we found out about the need for this technology from one of our DHS agency partners, we worked to develop the technology necessary to address this critical issue” explained FRG Program Manager Bill Deso. “They were seeing large numbers of prepaid cards during the performance of their duties, but had no way to check the balances on the cards. The ERAD Prepaid Card Reader now provides law enforcement personnel with this capability.”

This past April, the National Urban Security Technology Laboratory conducted an operational field assessment on the ERAD Prepaid Card Reader that included training, testing and a wrap-up roundtable discussion to solicit general feedback.

In addition to internal testing, the Prepaid Card Reader was employed in a recent operation when law enforcement seized approximately 1,000 cards from a suspected drug trafficker. With this technology they were able to identify more than $48,000 in funds that were loaded onto the cards. Since it was put into field testing, the Prepaid Card Reader has resulted in approximately $1 million dollars being seized by state and local law enforcement agencies from suspected criminal activity. 

“The Prepaid Card Reader has generated a lot of interest from our state and local law enforcement agency partners, and there is a growing demand by these agencies for use of this technology by their personnel,” said Deso. “It provides a unique tool for when they encounter suspect cards with magnetic strips during the performance of their duties.”" 

So:

1) It works on prepaid cards.

2) It checks the balance of cards.

3) It has the ability to put a temporary hold on the linked funds.

Unless someone is a complete doofus, what kind of person would carry a large number of PP cash cards?

I find the posted comments clueless, given the overall forum's meta purpose is bitcoin promulgation, bitcoin, in case you weren't aware of it, being a financial instrument that foster's 100% transparency with potentially zero friction. You clearly have no idea how lucky you are to live in this country. I encourage you to leave the stench of your video game man caves and experience the wider world.

 Finally,  there are several excellent reasons to avoid OK: "Oklahoma finishes 48th with a D+ grade in Education Week’s annual rankings." OK is 45th in state public health, High prevalence of obesity, high rate of cardiovascular deaths, limited availability of primary care physicians. Oklahoma Legislator Introduces Yet Another Bill to Permit Teaching of Creationism in Public Schools.

etc etc

Re-read exactly what you wrote here:

"In addition to internal testing, the Prepaid Card Reader was employed in a recent operation when law enforcement seized approximately 1,000 cards from a suspected drug trafficker. With this technology they were able to identify more than $48,000 in funds that were loaded onto the cards. Since it was put into field testing, the Prepaid Card Reader has resulted in approximately $1 million dollars being seized by state and local law enforcement agencies from suspected criminal activity."

Why should a SUSPECTED person's funds be frozen?  At who's judgement should cards be frozen?  What is someone has 10 and not 1000?  It's a slippery slope as everyday we become increasingly guilty until proven innocent.  The States are great but why should its citizens stand still and do nothing while liberties are being taken away everyday?

Civil Asset Forfeiture has become quite a revenue generator for certain area's of the States.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-08/how-irs-used-civil-asset-forfeiture-ruin-lives-two-connecticut-bakers
iamnotback
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June 13, 2016, 02:21:31 PM
 #6

We're sliding into the next Holocaust...


When I was arrested the prosecution asked that I be incarcerated without a bond hearing for the maximum time allowed under the Patriot act, six days.  One of the reasons for this pre-bond hearing incarceration was to make sure I did not move my funds before they had a chance to find them.  They were very concerned that I might move my Bitcoins out of seized wallets on seized computers before they had a chance to find them all and move the Bitcoins to their own wallet.

...

By the time I was released on bond they had found and had moved most of my Bitcoins, the Bitcoins I was holding for my non-tech savvy parents, and some other Bitcoins that were not mine (was holding for a friend until he got his own Trezor.


...

This sharing of the loot with the vendor is actually par for the course.  Remember that traffic light cameras are often operated with a cut going to the vendor and the rest going to the government.  Also here is another example, also from Oklahoma, of a vendor getting a cut of the loot:

Quote
In January last year, David hired himself and his top trainers out as a roving private interdiction unit for the district attorney’s office in rural Caddo County, Okla. Working with local police, Desert Snow contract employees took in more than $1 million over six months from drivers on the state’s highways, including Interstate 40 west of Oklahoma City. Under its contract, the firm was allowed to keep 25 percent of the cash.

The entire article is worth a read and is very chilling:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/09/07/police-intelligence-targets-cash/

ASIDE:  you can see if Desert Snow has recently or will soon be training the cops in your area here:

https://desertsnow.com/conferences

...

If you refuse to give them the password or the moved funds you can be charged with contempt of court and be placed in jail until you give them the password or the funds...

The bad news is that contempt of court charges can not be appealed.  Also for all practical purposes there is no time limit for a contempt of court charge.  They can give you 30 days, bring you back to court, if you refuse again - another 30 days, rinse and repeat as long as they want.


That piece on Desert Snow is pretty interesting, just finished reading it... It's odd that a system like Black Asphalt runs freely online.
Not only that but they give out awards to their students and LEO will use these awards on their resumes.

https://www.desertsnow.com/pages/view/6

Now most of the stuff they have to do and seize to get the award could be argued as "a good thing" but this requirement:

Quote
*QUALIFIED INCIDENTS / SEIZURES:
US Currency – Successful forfeiture of more than $5,000

is a little bit shady.


I knew I had found one of the Royal Knights at one point.  Found him again, Royal Knight #13:

Quote
Inducted as Royal Knight #13 of the Black Asphalt (2009)

It is a major accomplishment, not easy to do, and I am sure he is very proud of it.

http://www.bernalillocountysheriff.com/cmdstaff.html
freshman777
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June 13, 2016, 03:41:40 PM
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This is outright tyranny and the residents of Oklahoma should be out protesting and swarming their state's capital, screaming for the resignations of every single member of the state government. 

Protesting is a baby crying to get attention, protesting is talk. Talk is cheap, hard to recommend it as an effective counter-policy. Using crypto is walking the walk.

ARDOR - Blockchain as a Service. Three birds with one stone. /// Do not hold NXT at exchanges, NXT wallets: core+lite, mobile Android
iamnotback
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June 13, 2016, 03:53:40 PM
Last edit: June 13, 2016, 04:53:46 PM by iamnotback
 #8

Using crypto is walking the walk.

Not really:

Second, having seized a wallet with a password they can just keep it until you prove it [the wallet, not yourself] is innocent.  Yes, you can move your funds off the phone and let them have the phone and just walk away with your Bitcoins and replace your phone.

However there are two scenarios in which this is not the case:

1) if you are arrested at the time of the seizure

2) if they manage to find out you moved their new funds off their new phone after they seized the phone

If you refuse to give them the password or the moved funds you can be charged with contempt of court and be placed in jail until you give them the password or the funds.  This is a pretty big hassle for them and a lot more work than just taking cash, pre-paid cards, unprotected Bitcoins, etc. so they would have to think the possible profit worth the effort so the amount of, or their perception of, the amount comes in to play.

The "good" news is that this would involve having to arrest and charge you with something so you start to have some rights in the process, can hire an attorney, go to court, etc.

The bad news is that contempt of court charges can not be appealed.  Also for all practical purposes there is no time limit for a contempt of court charge.  They can give you 30 days, bring you back to court, if you refuse again - another 30 days, rinse and repeat as long as they want.

They kept Martin Armstrong in jail for 7+ years on contempt of court.

The problem is once they do the forensics on your mobile phone and realize you have not given them all the passwords, they will eventually force you to give them all, and then they will be able to track down that you moved funds. Then they will force you to give back those funds, else hold you in contempt of court forever until you do.

Do not keep access to large funds on the mobile phone you carry with you!

When you need to physically move a password, then memorize it and move your brain.

I think there might be an even better way. You'd encrypt your password to a public key. At the destination you'd decrypt it with password you had stored at that location. Or just spend the Bitcoins to the new destination address. The point is don't travel with your passwords to large funds.

Don't forget BitCON is centralized mining and thus it will also likely be confiscated with G20 control over the block chain.

In regards to the centralization of Bitcoin, he now works for the Media Lab at MIT, who has just come out with a controversial concept known as ChainAnchor... ChainAnchor would coerce miners to not allow transactions that do not have the identities of the users of Bitcoins tied to their transactions and wallets, defeating the peer-to-peer, identity-protecting foundation of Bitcoin itself.



Where did you get that picture of my family?  Calling them nutcases, you have the nerve...

My family is much better prepared than I am, as you can see.  Alas, in my case, my guns (ammo too) were lost in a boating accident, why a year ago IIRC.  Rather than get the police all riled up about guns out there at the bottom of the sea, I thought I would just let them corrode away.  Most unfortunate.

Oh, I lost all my precious metals on the same boat-ride.  And everyone told me that it was so much better to take all that stuff with me rather than leave it all behind in some dark place at home.  How naive.  Now I have to start over.


I'm sorry to hear about your loss.  Indeed, boating accidents seem to be rather common now.  And I had always thought that carrying around my precious and my weapons was a good idea rather than leaving them in some dark hidey-hole at home.

In my case though, I lost all of that while ice-fishing in Minnesota last winter.  I even forget which lake.  Bummer!

That is not going to work. They will throw you in jail, until you tell them where your gold is. They are not going to believe you lost in the lake.

If you really want to hide assets, there better not be any record of obtaining the assets.

End Game, Gold Investors Will Be Destroyed, June 15, 2010
Bitcoin: The Digital Kill Switch, March 29, 2013
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