Japanese company GMO announcing new hardware and mining operation

[-ck]

Some of you may have read the announcement about a Japanese company getting into mining. At this stage they're just announcing their plans and have started posting what they expect from their hardware. The details are in Japanese which fortunately I can read.

https://twitter.com/AkioHoshi/status/907849396779470848
まずマイニング設備から。チップは国内設計、国内製造。モジュール1個で10TH/s。48V直流給電。1システムボードに8モジュール。2ボードで1ブレード。1ラックに8ブレード、1.25PH/s。データセンターは16×35mの床面積で500PH/s。

Beginning with mining hardware. The chip will be developed and manufactured domestically. Each module will be 10TH/s. 48 volts DC. Each system board has 8 modules. Each blade has 2 boards. Each rack takes 8 blades coming to 1.25PH. The Data centre will be 16x35m floor space housing 500PH/S.

Of more interest is their hardware description:
https://www.gmo.jp/news/article/?id=5775

ハードウェア
計算性能　10TH/s
消費電力　500W以下
投入マイニングチップ：50,000チップから段階的に増強

設備   ラック、冷房、配電、消防、セキュリティ

電力   再生可能エネルギー（地熱、水力）

Hardware:
Estimated capability: 10TH/S
Electricity consumption: <500W
Mining chip manufacturing: Stepwise increase to 50,000 chips.

Facilities: Racks, cooling, electricity distribution, fire extinguishers, security.

Electric power: Renewable energy (geothermal, hydroelectric.)

Probably the most interesting aspect is 10TH/s for 500W which would make it class leading efficiency. The website also says they'll be using 7nm technology...

Of course we've heard of great claims of efficiency in hardware from newcomers in the past who have failed to deliver on their promises so at this stage it needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

今後の展開（時期未定）
Future plans (timeframe to be determined)

(１) クラウドマイニング事業
1. Cloud mining operation

Explains cloud mining much like any other operation that they'll be selling.

(２) 次世代マイニングボードの販売
2. Next  generation mining board sales

Public sales of their hardware!

(３) GMOコイン株式会社への仮想通貨供給
3. Provision of virtual currency to the GMO Coin public company

This appears to be them starting a cryptocurrency exchange under a daughter company to their main one.

TL;DR This established Japanese company is getting into bitcoin mining hardware and is aiming to make class beating efficiency mining hardware that it will eventually be selling to the public, timeframe unknown...

The bitcoin mining world desperately needs something to break the bitmain stranglehold on the global hashrate. Hopefully this is the beginning of something that other companies will do too. This is no new company formed just the mine bitcoin, but then bitmain has been working with mining for a long time now and understands it a lot better than the newcomers. It will be interesting to see if that existing knowhow counts for more than what established companies have to back them.

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[Foofighter]

very interesting thanks for sharing - sounds like this could be a game change but lets wait to see more from them especially if they are able to hold their spec...

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Ah ... this really belongs in Speculation along with the 7nm thread... If anyone else posted it here it would be moved to there,,,

Considering that the 7nm node requires using EUV and those light sources are just now starting to reach useful powers - not going to happen in their time frame. Remember, AMD and Nvidia both announced Production with a big 'P' of 16nm GPU's in mid-2015 - when did they actually start full production? Early 2016 and that was from a node size using fairly mature lithography process. EUV is a whole 'nother ballgame...

[-ck]

Ah ... this really belongs in Speculation along with the 7nm thread... If anyone else posted it here it would be moved to there,,,

Considering that the 7nm node requires using EUV and those light sources are just now starting to reach useful powers - not going to happen in their time frame. Remember, AMD and Nvidia both announced Production with a big 'P' of 16nm GPU's in mid-2015 - when did they actually start full production? Early 2016 and that was from a node size using fairly mature lithography process. EUV is a whole 'nother ballgame...

It would have been borderline in my eyes too except that this is an announcement from a well established company (been around 20 years) rather than people speculating on who or what might come out with 7nm. I've simply translated what the company has announced.

[kano]

LOL 7nm ... seriously?
Hah - I'm in Japan for 4 more days maybe I need to find the address and rat out the scam

[philipma1957]

Some of you may have read the announcement about a Japanese company getting into mining. At this stage they're just announcing their plans and have started posting what they expect from their hardware. The details are in Japanese which fortunately I can read.


 

...

The bitcoin mining world desperately needs something to break the bitmain stranglehold on the global hashrate. Hopefully this is the beginning of something that other companies will do too. This is no new company formed just the mine bitcoin, but then bitmain has been working with mining for a long time now and understands it a lot better than the newcomers. It will be interesting to see if that existing knowhow counts for more than what established companies have to back them.

My problem with bitmain is:

S-9
R-4

L-3
D-3

Hashnest


and now

 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2173763.0

G1/G2 gpu miners

I know this is the BTC section   or  will that become the BCC section  due to bitmain.


Fuck that is a long list above is it not?

As GMO  being  savior for BTC   well maybe. But they built their own coin.

https://www.gmo.jp/en/news/article/?id=737

I actually thought Samsung or intel or nvidia or even AMD might be the company.

But GMO is interesting:

https://www.gmo.jp/en/



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I think that  we all need to realize  it is not going to be BTC  or BTC and BCC  it is going to be a variation of below:


1109 coins

https://coinmarketcap.com/

1   Bitcoin Bitcoin   $64,628,589,308   $3902.03   16,562,812 BTC   $2,143,960,000   -8.34%   sparkline
2   Ethereum Ethereum   $25,870,621,384   $273.49   94,595,088 ETH   $888,799,000   -9.50%   sparkline
3   Bitcoin Cash Bitcoin Cash   $8,180,197,412   $493.43   16,578,300 BCH   $305,847,000   -6.57%   sparkline
4   Ripple Ripple   $7,727,204,392   $0.201524   38,343,841,883 XRP *   $122,114,000   -7.73%   sparkline
5   Litecoin Litecoin   $3,236,673,426   $61.17   52,910,682 LTC   $511,705,000   -8.36%   sparkline
6   Dash Dash   $2,247,731,104   $297.52   7,554,967 DASH   $33,141,400   -8.83%   sparkline
7   NEM NEM   $2,014,929,000   $0.223881   8,999,999,999 XEM *   $7,693,600   -13.55%   sparkline
8   Monero Monero   $1,631,851,436   $108.24   15,076,511 XMR   $81,449,900   -5.12%   sparkline
9   IOTA IOTA   $1,406,047,630   $0.505858   2,779,530,283 MIOTA *   $27,550,600   -16.83%   sparkline
10   Ethereum Classic Ethereum Classic   $1,329,206,755   $13.92   95,473,216 ETC   $118,441,000   -6.13%   sparkline
11   OmiseGO OmiseGO   $1,016,349,704   $10.34   98,312,024 OMG *   $95,820,700   -16.73%   sparkline
12   NEO NEO   $949,105,000   $18.98   50,000,000 NEO *   $39,925,100   -15.63%   sparkline
13   BitConnect BitConnect   $778,588,062   $116.50   6,682,987 BCC   $6,248,550   -9.35%   sparkline
14   Qtum Qtum   $754,338,600   $12.79   59,000,000 QTUM *   $196,342,000   -13.25%   sparkline
15   Lisk Lisk   $728,730,701   $6.50   112,185,595 LSK *   $22,792,500   -8.17%   sparkline
16   Stratis Stratis   $479,778,628   $4.87   98,541,453 STRAT *   $8,617,620   -14.42%   sparkline
17   Tether Tether   $415,487,678   $1.00   413,700,492 USDT *   $258,355,000   0.28%   sparkline
18   Zcash Zcash   $413,138,486   $190.03   2,174,081 ZEC   $26,972,300   -11.45%   sparkline
19   Waves Waves   $384,703,000   $3.85   100,000,000 WAVES *   $5,648,270   -14.75%   sparkline
20   Hshare Hshare   $383,483,520   $11.41   33,600,000 HSR *   $21,267,500   -10.97%   sparkline
21   Ark Ark   $321,255,449   $3.29   97,531,308 ARK *   $14,456,200   -17.18%   sparkline
22   BitShares BitShares   $288,690,967   $0.111076   2,599,040,000 BTS *   $35,518,400   -11.33%   sparkline
23   Bytecoin Bytecoin   $275,732,431   $0.001505   183,253,534,612 BCN   $3,013,720   -18.68%   sparkline
24   Steem Steem   $269,139,895   $1.12   241,238,276 STEEM   $948,183   -12.19%   sparkline
25   Stellar Lumens Stellar Lumens   $252,585,048   $0.015228   16,587,100,415 XLM *   $3,007,050   -11.57%   sparkline
26   EOS EOS   $245,795,013   $0.715896   343,338,995 EOS *   $14,043,600   -8.84%   sparkline
27   TenX TenX   $241,746,694   $2.31   104,661,310 PAY *   $4,649,910   -15.00%   sparkline
28   Augur Augur   $229,177,300   $20.83   11,000,000 REP *   $3,686,110   -3.48%   sparkline
29   MaidSafeCoin MaidSafeCoin   $227,073,151   $0.501761   452,552,412 MAID *   $2,673,580   -21.54%   sparkline
30   Golem Golem   $215,453,730   $0.258638   833,032,000 GNT *   $2,891,100   -15.86%   sparkline
31   Basic Attention Token Basic Attenti...   $186,267,000   $0.186267   1,000,000,000 BAT *   $2,824,450   -17.84%   sparkline
32   Metal Metal   $178,230,783   $9.23   19,300,994 MTL *   $3,671,770   -18.82%   sparkline
33   Nexus Nexus   $177,612,481   $3.39   52,379,929 NXS   $2,999,440   1.95%   sparkline
34   Komodo Komodo   $177,099,812   $1.75   100,945,510 KMD   $4,251,360   -15.95%   sparkline
35   Factom Factom   $175,453,856   $20.06   8,745,102 FCT *   $2,687,480   -16.09%   sparkline
36   Siacoin Siacoin   $161,236,801   $0.005492   29,359,447,455 SC   $3,233,170   -7.42%   sparkline
37   Iconomi Iconomi   $155,387,002   $1.56   99,900,350 ICN *   $996,733   -15.07%   sparkline
38   Veritaseum Veritaseum   $154,797,219   $76.97   2,011,134 VERI *   $308,598   -14.52%   sparkline
39   PIVX PIVX   $154,407,001   $2.85   54,260,905 PIVX *   $916,959   -15.83%   sparkline
40   Byteball Bytes Byteball Bytes   $152,290,716   $260.82   583,896 GBYTE *   $1,149,290   -14.41%   sparkline
41   Dogecoin Dogecoin   $151,929,565   $0.001368   111,061,247,059 DOGE   $5,727,120   -9.09%   sparkline
42   Decred Decred   $144,503,882   $25.16   5,743,923 DCR   $614,797   -13.99%   sparkline
43   DigixDAO DigixDAO   $138,740,000   $69.37   2,000,000 DGD *   $313,098   -15.38%   sparkline
44   Civic Civic   $129,181,980   $0.379947   340,000,000 CVC *   $3,877,220   -19.64%   sparkline
45   DigiByte DigiByte   $128,150,948   $0.014659   8,742,253,657 DGB   $8,563,450   -18.68%   sparkline
46   Gnosis Gnosis   $127,999,889   $115.88   1,104,590 GNO *   $459,377   -11.45%   sparkline
47   Populous Populous   $124,616,435   $3.02   41,252,246 PPT *   $339,286   -20.23%   sparkline
48   Syscoin Syscoin   $115,808,283   $0.219554   527,470,613 SYS   $13,298,600   -27.57%   sparkline
49   Ardor Ardor   $114,234,593   $0.114349   998,999,495 ARDR *   $1,624,450   -12.97%   sparkline
50   0x 0x   $113,145,500   $0.226291   500,000,000 ZRX *   $3,250,990   -18.81%   sparkline
51   Aeternity Aeternity   $101,483,212   $0.435512   233,020,472 AE *   $1,443,470   -13.15%   sparkline
52   BitcoinDark BitcoinDark   $100,778,970   $78.19   1,288,862 BTCD   $166,800   -20.52%   sparkline
53   GameCredits GameCredits   $99,239,823   $1.55   64,152,756 GAME   $2,209,140   -15.53%   sparkline
54   Binance Coin Binance Coin   $94,104,700   $0.941047   100,000,000 BNB *   $4,321,080   -15.29%   sparkline
55   Status Status   $87,744,936   $0.025283   3,470,483,788 SNT *   $2,212,910   -16.25%   sparkline
56   Bancor Bancor   $84,850,790   $2.08   40,772,871 BNT *   $1,778,860   -12.74%   sparkline
57   Lykke Lykke   $83,958,395   $0.313367   267,923,538 LKK *   $714,355   -4.50%   sparkline
58   SingularDTV SingularDTV   $83,670,600   $0.139451   600,000,000 SNGLS *   $782,744   -14.57%   sparkline
59   Verge Verge   $81,022,177   $0.006042   13,409,472,280 XVG   $5,938,400   -18.10%   sparkline
60   FunFair FunFair   $79,032,663   $0.020584   3,839,463,249 FUN *   $298,172   -14.26%   sparkline
61   Gas Gas   $78,373,054   $9.37   8,363,423 GAS *   $135,609   -13.47%   sparkline
62   Blocknet Blocknet   $77,217,819   $18.34   4,211,246 BLOCK *   $347,850   -7.05%   sparkline
63   Nxt Nxt   $75,293,726   $0.075369   998,999,942 NXT *   $5,608,720   -16.57%   sparkline
64   Triggers Triggers   $72,632,803   $2.26   32,105,593 TRIG *   $29,417,100   8.61%   sparkline
65   Monaco Monaco   $72,152,976   $7.35   9,814,875 MCO *   $2,494,670   -17.98%   sparkline
66   GXShares GXShares   $65,115,774   $1.61   40,510,000 GXS *   $56,428   -14.35%   sparkline
67   Edgeless Edgeless   $64,077,330   $0.780990   82,046,288 EDG *   $6,063,550   -3.66%   sparkline
68   Tierion Tierion   $61,099,541   $0.144612   422,506,717 TNT *   $2,585,620   1.09%   sparkline
69   Bitquence Bitquence   $61,040,514   $0.857709   71,166,927 BQX *   $1,060,170   -13.50%   sparkline
70   Ubiq Ubiq   $60,913,954   $1.61   37,915,294 UBQ   $947,722   -15.39%   sparkline
71   Aragon Aragon   $59,545,722   $1.80   33,015,659 ANT *   $699,919   -7.22%   sparkline
72   Particl Particl   $58,662,787   $7.62   7,702,268 PART *   $283,323   -16.00%   sparkline
73   NAV Coin NAV Coin   $57,421,783   $0.929722   61,762,315 NAV *   $2,320,250   -22.49%   sparkline
74   Wings Wings   $53,158,736   $0.592573   89,708,333 WINGS *   $1,338,210   -21.25%   sparkline
75   OKCash OKCash   $47,938,824   $0.660740   72,553,235 OK *   $17,126,600   -16.78%   sparkline
76   FirstCoin FirstCoin   $47,808,442   $6.16   7,763,682 FRST   $381,475   -8.69%   sparkline
77   MobileGo MobileGo   $47,755,949   $0.487162   98,028,887 MGO *   $372,993   -15.28%   sparkline
78   Storj Storj   $47,059,897   $0.486057   96,819,708 STORJ *   $797,404   -14.27%   sparkline
79   Monetha Monetha   $45,346,709   $0.211822   214,079,315 MTH *   $1,015,290   -21.94%   sparkline
80   Elastic Elastic   $44,085,822   $0.510402   86,374,704 XEL *   $4,837,110   -11.75%   sparkline
81   Walton Walton   $42,438,944   $1.70   24,898,178 WTC *   $8,007,930   -17.11%   sparkline
82   Pillar Pillar   $41,846,728   $0.074726   560,000,000 PLR *   $57,139   -11.67%   sparkline
83   Cofound.it Cofound.it   $40,816,750   $0.125590   325,000,000 CFI *   $312,813   -13.09%   sparkline
84   Gulden Gulden   $40,481,475   $0.114809   352,598,445 NLG   $144,548   -6.90%   sparkline
85   iExec RLC iExec RLC   $40,316,695   $0.509881   79,070,793 RLC *   $730,226   -19.91%   sparkline
86   NoLimitCoin NoLimitCoin   $39,934,722   $0.196180   203,561,640 NLC2 *   $169,215   -14.26%   sparkline
87   I/O Coin I/O Coin   $38,753,306   $2.37   16,363,965 IOC *   $260,854   -4.56%   sparkline
88   Aidos Kuneen Aidos Kuneen   $38,174,155   $4.29   8,900,500 ADK *   $1,405,000   1.59%   sparkline
89   Melon Melon   $37,927,754   $63.28   599,400 MLN *   $888,490   -14.46%   sparkline
90   Bytom Bytom   $37,881,060   $0.038380   987,000,000 BTM *   $153,916   -15.99%   sparkline
91   LEOcoin LEOcoin   $37,655,171   $0.417972   90,090,176 LEO *   $282,647   -5.15%   sparkline
92   CloakCoin CloakCoin   $36,700,671   $7.20   5,094,676 CLOAK *   $896,844   -12.52%   sparkline
93   FairCoin FairCoin   $33,613,342   $0.631903   53,193,831 FAIR *   $122,284   1.25%   sparkline
94   Peercoin Peercoin   $33,268,534   $1.37   24,326,573 PPC   $450,230   -9.69%   sparkline
95   Rise Rise   $32,794,529   $0.289860   113,139,200 RISE *   $2,690,740   -17.75%   sparkline
96   Emercoin Emercoin   $32,624,000   $0.801220   40,717,906 EMC   $855,967   0.66%   sparkline
97   Loopring Loopring   $32,417,313   $0.046474   697,538,027 LRC *   $223,216   -9.83%   sparkline
98   DECENT DECENT   $31,596,906   $0.615851   51,306,089 DCT *   $603,817   -14.32%   sparkline
99   AdEx AdEx   $31,349,007   $0.588672   53,253,776 ADX *   $2,785,540   -19.35%   sparkline
100   FirstBlood FirstBlood   $31,097,216   $0.363462   85,558,371 1ST *   $3,813,470   -15.12%   sparkline
Next 100 → View All

https://coinmarketcap.com/

[kano]

LOL 7nm ... seriously?
Hah - I'm in Japan for 4 more days maybe I need to find the address and rat out the scam

Meh, I should have made it more clear in my first reply.
It's not even Speculation, it's a scam.

It doesn't belong here at all.

Find me a company who has a few hundred million to do 16nm development ...
Not some company doing an old outdated scam of saying that can produce something they can't produce to make it sound faster than any company before it

Just coz they're in Japan doesn't mean they're not stupid or scamming.

[philipma1957]

LOL 7nm ... seriously?
Hah - I'm in Japan for 4 more days maybe I need to find the address and rat out the scam

Meh, I should have made it more clear in my first reply.
It's not even Speculation, it's a scam.

It doesn't belong here at all.

Find me a company who has a few hundred million to do 16nm development ...
Not some company doing an old outdated scam of saying that can produce something they can't produce to make it sound faster than any company before it

Just coz they're in Japan doesn't mean they're not stupid or scamming.

yeah  but to you 1108 coins on the list above are a scam  and 1 is real  .

While I admire your dedication to BTC  and not the other 1108 coins  it is not realistic to think that every coin but BTC is a scam.

We both know GMO is not going to have a working miner  of 10th at 500 watts  this year. 

What we don't know  is will they have one well ahead of everyone else.

Do i think if they build this .05 watt miner  it would be out in spring of 2018  and no one matches it for a year or more?

No  I don't think so.  But do I think they are a scam  maybe  but most likely they are just talking for now.

[sidehack]

Just throwing this out there, but Bitfury 16nm can run down around 0.07J/GH if you really want them to.

It's not going to take 7nm miracle process to hit that kind of efficiency. I would like to see more competition outside China, and I respect Japanese engineering, but they are definitely overly optimistic.

Regarding those 1109 coins, Phil - I wouldn't say 1108 are scams but it's probably pretty close.

[philipma1957]

Just throwing this out there, but Bitfury 16nm can run down around 0.07J/GH if you really want them to.

It's not going to take 7nm miracle process to hit that kind of efficiency. I would like to see more competition outside China, and I respect Japanese engineering, but they are definitely overly optimistic.

Regarding those 1109 coins, Phil - I wouldn't say 1108 are scams but it's probably pretty close.

Agreed  many many many of them are scams.  Not all of them.

If you look at crypto coins  for what they are  you can see a need for more then one.

Multiple al-gore-rythyms are important   and some degree of multiple redundancy in the shape of multiple coins for each al-gore-rythym is important.

Calling GMO a scam  is not what I would say.

And they already launched another coin  to be used in aiding coin trades.

I have one thing in agreement with kano too many coins   can dilute and hurt any one coin.  So I would like to see coins shrink  to well under the 1109 amount we have at the moment.

[leowonderful]

Considering how much money Bitmain has and the extensive R&D they do already, I also find it unlikely they can bring these kinds of efficiency rates. Perhaps they can, but with 7nm largely unknown and all and diminishing returns on efficiency the hopes get lower. Maybe they can get it to there but they'd need to undervolt and underclock chips possibly to do so. GMO likely isn't a scam, but if you think underperforming is a complete scam then it is for you.

[freebutcaged]

You might think without Satoshi there would've been no Bitcoin or without a president a government could not function, you are wrong. with or without

Bitmain there is always someone to do even worse than Wu, if Hitler was never born we would've had the millions burned and killed in a different type

Of war. what Bitmain is doing is the exact same thing anyone in their position would've done. only actions matter not words on the paper or on the screen.

[kano]

Along the same lines as I said before ...
There's really only 2 companies outside Bitcoin that work in the same area as Bitcoin miners - nVidia and AMD (GPU)

Even Intel don't produce chips in the league of Bitcoin.
It's a high power, many hundreds or thousands of 'threads'/cores of operation, brute-force, CPU bound process.

Now to put some relevant points on the table:
Why are there no 7nm GPUs yet?
For all we know, it may not be possible to do a massive core, high power, bitcoin 7nm ASIC with the current production methods.
Both nVidia and AMD have made comments suggesting they are doing 7nm but there's also been suggestions about the difficulty in doing that and that they may even be targeting 10nm instead of 7nm.

Basically, if some company who has no experience with GPUs or Bitcoin, comes out making claims about producing a 7nm Bitcoin ASIC, it's either a marketing ploy with no expected miners, or worse, you can expect failure if they haven't got someone from nVida, AMD, Bitmain or Canaan (or Bitfury? ) in there working with them.

[Philopolymath]

OMG...GMO's
Fucking Monsanto is behind this... I just know it

SAY NO to GMO miners

[Steamtyme]

OMG...GMO's
Fucking Monsanto is behind this... I just know it

SAY NO to GMO miners

I love it,

I was thinking Monsanto the whole thread. lol

[NiHaoMike]

The name is unfortunate is it turns out to be a legitimate product, or well fitting if it turns out to be a scam.

[Tomintx]

...
Both nVidia and AMD have made comments suggesting they are doing 7nm but there's also been suggestions about the difficulty in doing that and that they may even be targeting 10nm instead of 7nm.
...

7nm is an order of magnitude harder than anything that came before.  If you're not seeing nVidia or AMD producing or even announcing parts at this node, then you're not going to see real parts coming from a random bitcoin company any time soon.  nVidia and AMD have $billions to invest.  7nm parts will come, but not soon.  7nm bitcoin mining chips will only be used to backfill fab capacity if they don't have other production to run.

Every new technology node is massively more difficult than the preceding one.  Transition to 7nm changes all sorts of things.  It's going to take literally $billions to get this tech up and running.  No one's going to waste wafers on bitcoin chips, unless for fab testing because it's actually a very simple design.  Maybe this is what they're hoping for?  I just don't see it happening.

[rockie2000]

This seems to be very interesting but we should watch out for:
- History of the company, is there any product delivered on time before?
- Production schedule and reliability of the dates?
- Any actual images/videos of the factory, the hardware in action?

[NotFuzzyWarm]

How to buy chips or boards from GMO?
Does anyone have contacts with the company that produces the chips within the GMO consortium?

God forbid you actually read the threads about 7nm chips and this pie-in-the-sky project.... 7nm thread Or for that matter, perhaps read the 1 page of posts in this one  
NO ONE - not even Intel or IBM - can produce 7nm chips at this time outside of their labs and most projections from them put it in late 2018 AT BEST.

[aquapanic]

How to buy chips or boards from GMO?
Does anyone have contacts with the company that produces the chips within the GMO consortium?

God forbid you actually read the threads about 7nm chips and this pie-in-the-sky project.... 7nm thread Or for that matter, perhaps read the 1 page of posts in this one 
NO ONE - not even Intel or IBM - can produce 7nm chips at this time and most projections from them put it in late 2018 AT BEST.

I believe in their pie in the sky project - but I think they're being overly optimistic about delivery dates. They are definitely big enough / have enough capital to complete the project.