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bwarbwar
Newbie
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Activity: 12
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September 20, 2017, 03:12:43 AM |
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That things almost making minimum wage!
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Kinieter
Newbie
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Merit: 0
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September 20, 2017, 03:32:08 AM |
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nice video , mine still on delivery @@ , cant wait , 1 day missing , 1 day missing roi
but i still believe that d3 on november and beyond can make roi , maybe 6-7 months roi well maybe , except there will be a d3+ by december that do 30ghs for the same price
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bathrobehero
Legendary
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Activity: 2002
Merit: 1051
ICO? Not even once.
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September 20, 2017, 12:42:35 PM |
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It's already <$90 a day and looking at the difficulty chart it will drop like a stone: https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/dash-difficulty.htmlOP might ROI but people getting their ASICs weeks/months from now likely wont. There are way too many ASICs hitting the market: BitMain (15Gh/s), iBelink (10.8Gh/s), PinIdea (17Gh/s), Innosilicon (30.2Gh/s) And the Innosilicons are just starting to ship as well.
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Not your keys, not your coins!
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VoskCoin (OP)
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September 20, 2017, 02:27:15 PM |
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It's already <$90 a day and looking at the difficulty chart it will drop like a stone: https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/dash-difficulty.htmlOP might ROI but people getting their ASICs weeks/months from now likely wont. There are way too many ASICs hitting the market: BitMain (15Gh/s), iBelink (10.8Gh/s), PinIdea (17Gh/s), Innosilicon (30.2Gh/s) And the Innosilicons are just starting to ship as well. when you look at it from a chart POV .. just insane lol O_O Have people reported their innosilicons landing yet? Yeah quite honestly this is going to be really interesting to watch, I wanted to just watch this go down from the side but here I am xD
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VoskCoin (OP)
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September 20, 2017, 02:28:32 PM |
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nice video , mine still on delivery @@ , cant wait , 1 day missing , 1 day missing roi
but i still believe that d3 on november and beyond can make roi , maybe 6-7 months roi well maybe , except there will be a d3+ by december that do 30ghs for the same price
I would've thought that possible but rumors seem to be swirling that bitmain is going to be frozen? temp? by China gov? Can anyone offer some insight on this?
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VoskCoin (OP)
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September 20, 2017, 02:29:57 PM |
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That things almost making minimum wage!
lol I told my GF that yesterday too! I was just like what if . . I could freeze time .. . and I just mine xD
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senseless
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September 20, 2017, 02:55:20 PM |
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That things almost making minimum wage!
lol I told my GF that yesterday too! I was just like what if . . I could freeze time .. . and I just mine xD Then you would have a power worth more than $120/day.
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VoskCoin (OP)
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September 20, 2017, 03:03:36 PM |
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That things almost making minimum wage!
lol I told my GF that yesterday too! I was just like what if . . I could freeze time .. . and I just mine xD Then you would have a power worth more than $120/day. I like where your heads at, welcome aboard the team! hahaha xD you're right
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fusion0389
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September 20, 2017, 03:20:48 PM |
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That things almost making minimum wage!
lol I told my GF that yesterday too! I was just like what if . . I could freeze time .. . and I just mine xD Did you have to do any kung fu to point the D3 or L3+ to prohashing or was it as simple and copy\pasting the url and setting worker names?
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Ironeinstein
Jr. Member
Offline
Activity: 56
Merit: 1
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September 20, 2017, 03:26:10 PM |
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nice video , mine still on delivery @@ , cant wait , 1 day missing , 1 day missing roi
but i still believe that d3 on november and beyond can make roi , maybe 6-7 months roi well maybe , except there will be a d3+ by december that do 30ghs for the same price
I would've thought that possible but rumors seem to be swirling that bitmain is going to be frozen? temp? by China gov? Can anyone offer some insight on this? I've been curious about Bitmain's reaction to the crackdown and if they're impacted or not. Where have you been seeing these rumors?
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VoskCoin (OP)
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September 20, 2017, 03:42:48 PM |
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That things almost making minimum wage!
lol I told my GF that yesterday too! I was just like what if . . I could freeze time .. . and I just mine xD Did you have to do any kung fu to point the D3 or L3+ to prohashing or was it as simple and copy\pasting the url and setting worker names? PW = a=x11 Just make an account on their site first
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VoskCoin (OP)
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September 20, 2017, 03:45:35 PM |
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nice video , mine still on delivery @@ , cant wait , 1 day missing , 1 day missing roi
but i still believe that d3 on november and beyond can make roi , maybe 6-7 months roi well maybe , except there will be a d3+ by december that do 30ghs for the same price
I would've thought that possible but rumors seem to be swirling that bitmain is going to be frozen? temp? by China gov? Can anyone offer some insight on this? I've been curious about Bitmain's reaction to the crackdown and if they're impacted or not. Where have you been seeing these rumors? I cant find the article I saw, cryptocurrency pathfinder a viewer on my channel posted this fwiw
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crazydane
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September 20, 2017, 03:58:14 PM |
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So the D3 is based on 16nm tech, correct? Is Bitmain likely to release faster units based on newer tech that will also list for ~ $1,450 and start out making ~$100/day if you get in early enough? Or was the D3 a one time opportunity never to be had again?
Looking at that difficulty chart, is seems like even if they come out with something based on 8nm tech that does 100 Gh/s, it won't start out at $100/day on DASH, even if released early next year.
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fusion0389
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September 20, 2017, 04:34:40 PM |
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That things almost making minimum wage!
lol I told my GF that yesterday too! I was just like what if . . I could freeze time .. . and I just mine xD Did you have to do any kung fu to point the D3 or L3+ to prohashing or was it as simple and copy\pasting the url and setting worker names? PW = a=x11 Just make an account on their site first cool thanks for the tip, I read about the different things to put in the pw field and got confused. just to confirm, for dash mining, the only characters that need to be in that field are "a=x11" minus the "" obviously, correct? Where did you find this information? I need to look up what the settings are for L3+ too...
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Justwondering
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 50
Merit: 0
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September 20, 2017, 04:53:01 PM |
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Dumb question , but as a newbie ,can this thing be hooked upto nicehash ?!!?
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VoskCoin (OP)
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September 20, 2017, 06:34:43 PM |
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So the D3 is based on 16nm tech, correct? Is Bitmain likely to release faster units based on newer tech that will also list for ~ $1,450 and start out making ~$100/day if you get in early enough? Or was the D3 a one time opportunity never to be had again?
Looking at that difficulty chart, is seems like even if they come out with something based on 8nm tech that does 100 Gh/s, it won't start out at $100/day on DASH, even if released early next year.
They'll definitely release something better that's probably double the speed for same or 1.5 to 2x the price question is when? People have been calling for an L4 all year, is that something they kick 2018 off with? Does the china gov halt their advancements for a little to awhile? IDK O_O I just say buy the latest and greatest miner and pray lol
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VoskCoin (OP)
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September 20, 2017, 06:35:57 PM |
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That things almost making minimum wage!
lol I told my GF that yesterday too! I was just like what if . . I could freeze time .. . and I just mine xD Did you have to do any kung fu to point the D3 or L3+ to prohashing or was it as simple and copy\pasting the url and setting worker names? PW = a=x11 Just make an account on their site first cool thanks for the tip, I read about the different things to put in the pw field and got confused. just to confirm, for dash mining, the only characters that need to be in that field are "a=x11" minus the "" obviously, correct? Where did you find this information? I need to look up what the settings are for L3+ too... Yeah i'm not sure what settings are for the l3+ I used f2pool when I had it I know that cryptocrane uses prohashing or has with his L3+ so he would be a good guy to ask and yes your PW is correct
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siforek
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September 20, 2017, 08:19:51 PM |
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I'm seriously considering buying a D3, or 2 Problem is that whether it takes a month or 2 to get before I can start mining & where the difficulty is at that point. It could triple & you're still making nearly $1000/month but much more than that & I may as well build another GPU rig. Those who just got their D3s are obviously getting insane ROI, but for those of us a little late to the party who may have to wait for batch 4-5 is it still a good investment/risk?
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philipma1957
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 4116
Merit: 7872
'The right to privacy matters'
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September 20, 2017, 08:26:47 PM |
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I'm seriously considering buying a D3, or 2 Problem is that whether it takes a month or 2 to get before I can start mining & where the difficulty is at that point. It could triple & you're still making nearly $1000/month but much more than that & I may as well build another GPU rig. Those who just got their D3s are obviously getting insane ROI, but for those of us a little late to the party who may have to wait for batch 4-5 is it still a good investment/risk? if you don't have one on order it is a bad risk. that does not mean you won't make out but the odds are you will lose. the op jumped in early and should score.
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siforek
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September 20, 2017, 08:59:48 PM |
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I'm seriously considering buying a D3, or 2 Problem is that whether it takes a month or 2 to get before I can start mining & where the difficulty is at that point. It could triple & you're still making nearly $1000/month but much more than that & I may as well build another GPU rig. Those who just got their D3s are obviously getting insane ROI, but for those of us a little late to the party who may have to wait for batch 4-5 is it still a good investment/risk? if you don't have one on order it is a bad risk. that does not mean you won't make out but the odds are you will lose. the op jumped in early and should score. Right but if I were to get one from someone who has it on hand(I'll pay a lot more for that) & say get it within a week or 2 it might not be too bad.. I agree that placing an order now for one in November+ would be a bad investment as we just don't know what the difficulty will be then. I am kind of kicking myself now as I was watching Bitmain for a S9 when they launch the D3 & had them in stock for $1450 or something. Ugh.
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philipma1957
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 4116
Merit: 7872
'The right to privacy matters'
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September 20, 2017, 09:02:12 PM |
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I'm seriously considering buying a D3, or 2 Problem is that whether it takes a month or 2 to get before I can start mining & where the difficulty is at that point. It could triple & you're still making nearly $1000/month but much more than that & I may as well build another GPU rig. Those who just got their D3s are obviously getting insane ROI, but for those of us a little late to the party who may have to wait for batch 4-5 is it still a good investment/risk? if you don't have one on order it is a bad risk. that does not mean you won't make out but the odds are you will lose. the op jumped in early and should score. Right but if I were to get one from someone who has it on hand(I'll pay a lot more for that) & say get it within a week or 2 it might not be too bad.. I agree that placing an order now for one in November+ would be a bad investment as we just don't know what the difficulty will be then. I am kind of kicking myself now as I was watching Bitmain for a S9 when they launch the D3 & had them in stock for $1450 or something. Ugh. don't do that. these d3's could be subject to failure. and no one know if they are. some other gear will come along.
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crazydane
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September 21, 2017, 12:05:22 AM |
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Why doesn't Bitmain put 100% of the D3's they produce to work mining as soon as they come off the line vs. selling them to the public?
Is it because all their mining warehouses are at capacity and they simply can't find/build additional locations to mine with them to keep up with the rate at which they produce them?
I have read the stories about Bitmain "testing" them for weeks/month before selling to the public. But if they are still producing $100/day at that point, why not just keep mining with them? Perhaps the Chinese government has some sort of export mandate forcing to sell at least a certain percentage of them?
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trinitrate
Newbie
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Activity: 46
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September 21, 2017, 03:01:32 AM |
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Why doesn't Bitmain put 100% of the D3's they produce to work mining as soon as they come off the line vs. selling them to the public?
Is it because all their mining warehouses are at capacity and they simply can't find/build additional locations to mine with them to keep up with the rate at which they produce them?
I have read the stories about Bitmain "testing" them for weeks/month before selling to the public. But if they are still producing $100/day at that point, why not just keep mining with them? Perhaps the Chinese government has some sort of export mandate forcing to sell at least a certain percentage of them?
Ive always assumed it was because they didnt want to risk impacting the value of the currency. If it looked like Bitmain, or the Chinese in general were getting too close to the magic 51% number it would spook normal traders and the currency they are mining would crash. Since they trade and sell using those same currencies its in their best interest to keep those currencies reasonably stable. I could be all wrong, just my guess. Besides they're making a killing on just the hardware.
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QuintLeo
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1030
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September 21, 2017, 07:31:21 PM |
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So the D3 is based on 16nm tech, correct?
I suspect that the D3 might be 28nm given it's relatively LOW efficiency compared to some of the competition. I'm 100% certain that Bitmain prefers the CERTAINTY of "cash in hand, can turn it around into another batch of chips to sell MORE miners" as opposed to the longer time of return and MAJOR uncertainly of mining with the machines. The people that got rich out of the California Gold Rush were mostly SUPPLIERS to the miners - Levi Strauss being the most famed....
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I'm no longer legendary just in my own mind! Like something I said? Donations gratefully accepted. LYLnTKvLefz9izJFUvEGQEZzSkz34b3N6U (Litecoin) 1GYbjMTPdCuV7dci3iCUiaRrcNuaiQrVYY (Bitcoin)
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VoskCoin (OP)
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September 25, 2017, 02:28:01 AM |
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So the D3 is based on 16nm tech, correct?
I suspect that the D3 might be 28nm given it's relatively LOW efficiency compared to some of the competition. I'm 100% certain that Bitmain prefers the CERTAINTY of "cash in hand, can turn it around into another batch of chips to sell MORE miners" as opposed to the longer time of return and MAJOR uncertainly of mining with the machines. The people that got rich out of the California Gold Rush were mostly SUPPLIERS to the miners - Levi Strauss being the most famed.... Very, very, good point. Crypto could crash tomorrow most of us would be fucked and they'd be relatively fine lol
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philipma1957
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 4116
Merit: 7872
'The right to privacy matters'
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September 25, 2017, 02:36:10 AM |
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So the D3 is based on 16nm tech, correct?
I suspect that the D3 might be 28nm given it's relatively LOW efficiency compared to some of the competition. I'm 100% certain that Bitmain prefers the CERTAINTY of "cash in hand, can turn it around into another batch of chips to sell MORE miners" as opposed to the longer time of return and MAJOR uncertainly of mining with the machines. The people that got rich out of the California Gold Rush were mostly SUPPLIERS to the miners - Levi Strauss being the most famed.... Very, very, good point. Crypto could crash tomorrow most of us would be fucked and they'd be relatively fine lol I have been doing mining since 2012. I am fully paid off for gear and ahead. I did not achieve this status until this year. I have about 20k in paid off gear zero debt. some cash. some coins. The big bull run in gpu mining did the trick for me this year.
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VoskCoin (OP)
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September 25, 2017, 03:07:22 AM |
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So the D3 is based on 16nm tech, correct?
I suspect that the D3 might be 28nm given it's relatively LOW efficiency compared to some of the competition. I'm 100% certain that Bitmain prefers the CERTAINTY of "cash in hand, can turn it around into another batch of chips to sell MORE miners" as opposed to the longer time of return and MAJOR uncertainly of mining with the machines. The people that got rich out of the California Gold Rush were mostly SUPPLIERS to the miners - Levi Strauss being the most famed.... Very, very, good point. Crypto could crash tomorrow most of us would be fucked and they'd be relatively fine lol I have been doing mining since 2012. I am fully paid off for gear and ahead. I did not achieve this status until this year. I have about 20k in paid off gear zero debt. some cash. some coins. The big bull run in gpu mining did the trick for me this year. I envy you Phil xD Naturally I'm hoping for the next huge wave like that, I believe it'll come
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puwaha
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September 25, 2017, 06:10:46 AM |
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Hey Vosk,
Do you plan on keeping this thread updated with your daily profits regularly? I'm sure lots of people would be curious to see how difficulty is going to affect these devices as more D3s and other ASICs come online over the next few months.
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Searing
Copper Member
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1464
Clueless!
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September 25, 2017, 06:45:56 AM |
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unsure..I did the calcs below just now but not looking good for my 2nd D3 dubious order in November! I have a D3 going up on Tuesday 9/26/18 ...yeah rather dubious/dumb but it was take a chance on some equipment of give 50% to the Taxman. (One does not go from 4.15 LTC to 50 LTC w/o consequences) So anyway I get below with the calc today 9/24/16 This is with the original specs of 15gh and 1,200 watts. (Supposedly, some? all? are getting 17gh with less watts?) Anyway it comes out to at above specs: At 12c kwh $52.29 per day, $366.04 a week and $1,568.73 a month.... https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/dash?HashingPower=15&HashingUnit=GH%2Fs&PowerConsumption=1200&CostPerkWh=0.12I've no clue how fast (or not) this profit a day will dump. But what I'm seeing so far. I have one more D3 November batch coming......so we will see..... (crypto: silly hobby) p.s. can anyone clarify if the 1.5 batch to 2nd batch I think my D3 going up tuesday is ...really is 17gh likely?
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Old Style Legacy Plug & Play BBS System. Get it from www.synchro.net. Updated 1/1/2021. It also works with Windows 10 and likely 11 and allows 16 bit DOS game doors on the same Win 10 Machine in Multi-Node! Five Minute Install! Look it over it uninstalls just as fast, if you simply want to look it over. Freeware! Full BBS System! It is a frigging hoot!:)
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VoskCoin (OP)
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September 25, 2017, 04:08:02 PM |
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Hey Vosk,
Do you plan on keeping this thread updated with your daily profits regularly? I'm sure lots of people would be curious to see how difficulty is going to affect these devices as more D3s and other ASICs come online over the next few months.
I certainly can, I'll add some data to OP Example this is 3 days between 9.21.17-9.24.17 mining all day with prohashing . . 3 days but 4 date range - bit hard to discern but it was mining constantly before and after this range. One hashing board on the D3 went offline for an unknown reason so it decreased the final day in this charts earnings . . restarting the rig fixed the issue at least for now? One of our D3's is live on Nicehash right now if you're curious https://www.nicehash.com/miner/1ADjxn4jCV91izZJJtTR62UPfjw1PtsAZF
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Searing
Copper Member
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1464
Clueless!
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September 26, 2017, 04:29:32 AM |
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thanks....good to know ...a small bit of good news... (at least when difficulty shoots the bow off my D3 ship...I can go full speed ahead, screws turning and drive it under the waves at 17.5gh speed vs 15gh) edit: by the way, I gather this calculator below sucks...in that it says double what you said you got in the above post (unless stuff has changed drastically today) https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/dash?HashingPower=17.5&HashingUnit=GH%2Fs&PowerConsumption=1000&CostPerkWh=0.12what do you use for a calculator again...(hopefully I'm wrong and the above is correct for this day and time...but I'm not betting on it)
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Old Style Legacy Plug & Play BBS System. Get it from www.synchro.net. Updated 1/1/2021. It also works with Windows 10 and likely 11 and allows 16 bit DOS game doors on the same Win 10 Machine in Multi-Node! Five Minute Install! Look it over it uninstalls just as fast, if you simply want to look it over. Freeware! Full BBS System! It is a frigging hoot!:)
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KRYPTOCAT
Newbie
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Activity: 20
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September 26, 2017, 02:56:14 PM |
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ordered 5 of them still dont know to pay or just invest some more in cryptos..
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mojoxc
Member
Offline
Activity: 94
Merit: 10
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September 26, 2017, 03:58:34 PM |
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ordered 5 of them still dont know to pay or just invest some more in cryptos..
You ordered them you need to pay for them. Ordering and not paying for them and holding inventory preventing someone else from getting the miner is a BS move.
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Searing
Copper Member
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1464
Clueless!
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September 26, 2017, 04:04:22 PM |
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So the D3 is based on 16nm tech, correct?
I suspect that the D3 might be 28nm given it's relatively LOW efficiency compared to some of the competition. I'm 100% certain that Bitmain prefers the CERTAINTY of "cash in hand, can turn it around into another batch of chips to sell MORE miners" as opposed to the longer time of return and MAJOR uncertainly of mining with the machines. The people that got rich out of the California Gold Rush were mostly SUPPLIERS to the miners - Levi Strauss being the most famed.... Very, very, good point. Crypto could crash tomorrow most of us would be fucked and they'd be relatively fine lol I have been doing mining since 2012. I am fully paid off for gear and ahead. I did not achieve this status until this year. I have about 20k in paid off gear zero debt. some cash. some coins. The big bull run in gpu mining did the trick for me this year. Ditto. KNC liquidation sale 2016 and now this year due to luck getting bitmain’s pow scrypt at under 9 buck ltc
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Old Style Legacy Plug & Play BBS System. Get it from www.synchro.net. Updated 1/1/2021. It also works with Windows 10 and likely 11 and allows 16 bit DOS game doors on the same Win 10 Machine in Multi-Node! Five Minute Install! Look it over it uninstalls just as fast, if you simply want to look it over. Freeware! Full BBS System! It is a frigging hoot!:)
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toptek
Legendary
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Activity: 1274
Merit: 1000
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September 27, 2017, 02:55:35 AM Last edit: September 27, 2017, 03:10:59 AM by toptek |
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it's very possible but that depends on how many D3 you plan to run to gather, the hashrate difficulty and other factor's but it is very possible with more then one ... some of those Vid's are misleading . I get the feeling they are paid to lie or told to review those miners and given one for a good review be it a lie or not .. you can all way do the math to find out but that might not be on the money either till you have it. https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/dash?HashingPower=40&HashingUnit=MH%2Fs&PowerConsumption=140&CostPerkWh=0.12Right now dash the main coin they were made to mine is going for DASH -340.81 USD but you can mine any x11 coin with them and some other coins i saw posted some place . I won't be able to buy much of anything till next year when I'm out of CC debt..
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Phantoms001
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September 27, 2017, 03:09:08 AM |
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Why doesn't Bitmain put 100% of the D3's they produce to work mining as soon as they come off the line vs. selling them to the public?
Is it because all their mining warehouses are at capacity and they simply can't find/build additional locations to mine with them to keep up with the rate at which they produce them?
I have read the stories about Bitmain "testing" them for weeks/month before selling to the public. But if they are still producing $100/day at that point, why not just keep mining with them? Perhaps the Chinese government has some sort of export mandate forcing to sell at least a certain percentage of them?
lol You guys kill me. Of course they make the D3s (or any other miner) and mine with them for months before selling them to the public. Only when what they are making crosses what the profit will be for selling them do they offer the miners to the public.
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toptek
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1000
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September 27, 2017, 03:12:18 AM |
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Why doesn't Bitmain put 100% of the D3's they produce to work mining as soon as they come off the line vs. selling them to the public?
Is it because all their mining warehouses are at capacity and they simply can't find/build additional locations to mine with them to keep up with the rate at which they produce them?
I have read the stories about Bitmain "testing" them for weeks/month before selling to the public. But if they are still producing $100/day at that point, why not just keep mining with them? Perhaps the Chinese government has some sort of export mandate forcing to sell at least a certain percentage of them?
lol You guys kill me. Of course they make the D3s (or any other miner) and mine with them for months before selling them to the public. Only when what they are making crosses what the profit will be for selling them do they offer the miners to the public. I get a good laugh to sometimes but why GREED
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VoskCoin (OP)
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September 27, 2017, 03:14:51 AM |
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lol the toaster references get me every time from you xD
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Steven3iii
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September 27, 2017, 07:44:24 AM |
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lol the toaster references get me every time from you xD The noisiest toaster that you will ever own. Toaster will actually have more hash and a better return by November. Your girlfriend/wife/partner know what a toaster does too, and can watch TV in the same room.
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Searing
Copper Member
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Activity: 2898
Merit: 1464
Clueless!
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September 27, 2017, 08:08:16 AM |
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lol the toaster references get me every time from you xD The noisiest toaster that you will ever own. Toaster will actually have more hash and a better return by November. Your girlfriend/wife/partner know what a toaster does too, and can watch TV in the same room. Really? My 2nd batch D3 for $1,450 arriving the 1st 1/2 of November will have, as you put it, " will actually have more hash and a better return by November" (quote) Tell me more old wise future teller sage, that you are.....is this due to x11 coins going up in price?, difficulty leveling off, (even that cracks me up), bitmain adding other protocols like x13,x15, etc....the Helium x11 coin coming out? Or are you just jerking my chain..in my dire straights of being in Bitmain's evil clutches...ie ...spent too long at the ASIC gambling table and these last 2 D3's are a hit and a miss and maybe, just maybe the L3+s coming October 15th are as well.... lead us to the promised land.......(we are desperate we will follow.....the tempting ways of bitmain have come home to roost...alas)
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Old Style Legacy Plug & Play BBS System. Get it from www.synchro.net. Updated 1/1/2021. It also works with Windows 10 and likely 11 and allows 16 bit DOS game doors on the same Win 10 Machine in Multi-Node! Five Minute Install! Look it over it uninstalls just as fast, if you simply want to look it over. Freeware! Full BBS System! It is a frigging hoot!:)
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VoskCoin (OP)
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September 27, 2017, 01:01:27 PM |
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lol the toaster references get me every time from you xD The noisiest toaster that you will ever own. Toaster will actually have more hash and a better return by November. Your girlfriend/wife/partner know what a toaster does too, and can watch TV in the same room. more hash, that's hilarious
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