2013-5-29 Sovereign Man: Is this the next shoe to drop for Bitcoin?

[BTCLuke]

http://www.sovereignman.com/trends/is-this-the-next-shoe-to-drop-for-bitcoin-11949/

Liberty Reserve’s cardinal sin was not making any effort to validate the identities of its customers. And for this reason, the US government labeled it a ‘primary money laundering concern.’

After all, only criminal terrorists want to bank anonymously.

The biggest issue is what this may mean for Bitcoin… because it certainly does seem to be a huge flashing warning sign that the government is out there targeting digital currencies.

One major difference is that Liberty Reserve was centralized.

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[rizq]

Not really, having one exchange alone controlling more than 80% is as centralized as you would like.

What would happen to bitcoin if mtGox was shutdown overnight.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Not really, having one exchange alone controlling more than 80% is as centralized as you would like.

What would happen to bitcoin if mtGox was shutdown overnight.

Other exchanges would gain marketshare.
Now compare that to what happens "if" LR gets shutdown overnight.

Nobody is saying a major exchange closing wouldn't be disruptive but with a centralized currency it is a complete failure of the network.

BTW: MtGox marketshare has been declining.  Over last 7 days it has been 66% of the major exchanges.
http://www.bitcoinity.org/markets/list?currency=ALL&span=7d

Of course that 66% excludes other exchanging methods like OTC.

[Gabit]

Not really, having one exchange alone controlling more than 80% is as centralized as you would like.

What would happen to bitcoin if mtGox was shutdown overnight.

Last time I checked, they controlled under 63%

[BTCLuke]

It's certainly not the other shoe dropping yet, but it was no small hint, either.

I can just imagine Obomba and Bernanke holding a special meeting back when BTC went above $100 and all the press appeared... They likely saw bitcoin as a threat already but knew that the existing laws couldn't justify them going after it outright, so they settled on going after all of the ways to get fiat into BTC instead.

They'll certainly lose that game, if for no other reason than the existance of localbitcoins and OTC desks.

...But that won't stop them from trying. At least in the USSA, keep a wary eye on any and all services that take fiat in exchange for BTC. In fact, we should make a formal list and do our best to warn them all to stay up to date on the Money Transmitter FINCEN Law.

[rpg]

lets face it, the only reason BTC is at $130 is because its a shelter for criminal money. If you think otherwise I may have a bridge you maybe interested in buying.

[kjlimo]

lets face it, the only reason BTC is at $130 is because its a shelter for criminal money. If you think otherwise I may have a bridge you maybe interested in buying.

hah, welcome newbie.  You're wrong and I hope you learn that quickly.

[BTCLuke]

lets face it, the only reason BTC is at $130 is because its a shelter for criminal money. If you think otherwise I may have a bridge you maybe interested in buying.

What a noob.

Stick around and learn something before you post again, lulz...

[rpg]

lets face it, the only reason BTC is at $130 is because its a shelter for criminal money. If you think otherwise I may have a bridge you maybe interested in buying.

hah, welcome newbie.  You're wrong and I hope you learn that quickly.

ok, explain to me where the billions of fiat to shelter in a crypto are coming from.

Lets see, this importer (cough cough) needs to pay for a shipment, so he buys BTC. He pays the shipment to the guy in Colombia with BTC. The guy in Colombia goes to gox and sells the BTC to another importer that also has to pay for a shipment..... and so on.

BTC was also used by hackers and mafia groups to laundry money at LR and I'm pretty sure other outfits are still being used.

In fact hackers and mafia groups dominate the crypto mining universe. Lets see ... bot nets, shady pool operators, DDOS attacks.....

Where are those billions coming from again?

[kiko]

lets face it, the only reason BTC is at $130 is because its a shelter for criminal money. If you think otherwise I may have a bridge you maybe interested in buying.

hah, welcome newbie.  You're wrong and I hope you learn that quickly.

ok, explain to me where the billions of fiat to shelter in a crypto are coming from.

Lets see, this importer (cough cough) needs to pay for a shipment, so he buys BTC. He pays the shipment to the guy in Colombia with BTC. The guy in Colombia goes to gox and sells the BTC to another importer that also has to pay for a shipment..... and so on.

BTC was also used by hackers and mafia groups to laundry money at LR and I'm pretty sure other outfits are still being used.

In fact hackers and mafia groups dominate the crypto mining universe. Lets see ... bot nets, shady pool operators, DDOS attacks.....

Where are those billions coming from again?

Please take some time to understand what market capitalization represents. There has been nothing like a billion in fiat invested in bitcoin to date. A billion Zimbabwe dollars perhaps, but that's another discussion. The average cost of entry (per dollar) for bitcoin investors is nothing like the current spot price. To assume that you have to believe that all the original holders have cashed out in the last month; the blockchain says it just ain't so. Even that ignores the many miners that got in basically for free.

[BTCLuke]

Please take some time to understand what market capitalization represents. There has been nothing like a billion in fiat invested in bitcoin to date. A billion Zimbabwe dollars perhaps, but that's another discussion. The average cost of entry (per dollar) for bitcoin investors is nothing like the current spot price. To assume that you have to believe that all the original holders have cashed out in the last month; the blockchain says it just ain't so. Even that ignores the many miners that got in basically for free.

I doubt teaching him what market cap is will have any lasting effect on this one... It's far better to simply mention that bitcoin was very steadily worth less than $10 for a looooooooooooooooong time while it was used on SR that whole time, so it's pretty obvious that the other $120 worth of a bitcoin right now probably isn't all demand for SR products.

[eric345]

lets face it, the only reason BTC is at $130 is because its a shelter for criminal money. If you think otherwise I may have a bridge you maybe interested in buying.

There's at least 21 Trillion dollar stored in taxhavens.

The world's super-rich have taken advantage of lax tax rules to siphon off at least $21 trillion, and possibly as much as $32tn, from their home countries and hide it abroad – a sum larger than the entire American economy.

In fact, some experts believe the amount of assets being held offshore is so large that accounting for it fully would radically alter the balance of financial power between countries. The French economist Thomas Piketty, an expert on inequality who helps compile the World Top Incomes Database, says research by his colleagues has shown that "the wealth held in tax havens is probably sufficiently substantial to turn Europe into a very large net creditor with respect to the rest of the world."
http://www.stwr.org/globalization/the-price-of-offshore-revisited.html

That's a shelter!

[TraderTimm]

Shame we don't have a posting restriction here - I'd set it at 300 > to do anything. These people coming in with fresh-faced newbie accounts spouting off about what they "know" is rather annoying, like that SEC troll.

[BTCLuke]

[solex]

Shame we don't have a posting restriction here - I'd set it at 300 > to do anything. These people coming in with fresh-faced newbie accounts spouting off about what they "know" is rather annoying, like that SEC troll.

Another idea is that when a newbie gets a load of ignores from 300+ posters, that the newbie gets dumped back in newbie jail for a few weeks.. 

[bb999]

Lol exactly

[aigeezer]

Shame we don't have a posting restriction here - I'd set it at 300 > to do anything. These people coming in with fresh-faced newbie accounts spouting off about what they "know" is rather annoying, like that SEC troll.

Another idea is that when a newbie gets a load of ignores from 300+ posters, that the newbie gets dumped back in newbie jail for a few weeks.. 

I liked that a lot at first, but on reflection it might just make them more crafty - turn them into concern trolls, for example, rather than "hair on fire" trolls. Hmmmn - it would get them out of the mainstream for a while though. Best idea yet.       

[Birdy]

I liked that a lot at first, but on reflection it might just make them more crafty - turn them into concern trolls, for example, rather than "hair on fire" trolls. Hmmmn - it would get them out of the mainstream for a while though. Best idea yet.       

It would also lead them to trolling other newbs more, I don't think thats a good idea as they are influenced the most by it.

[aigeezer]

I liked that a lot at first, but on reflection it might just make them more crafty - turn them into concern trolls, for example, rather than "hair on fire" trolls. Hmmmn - it would get them out of the mainstream for a while though. Best idea yet.       

It would also lead them to trolling other newbs more, I don't think thats a good idea as they are influenced the most by it.

Ouch. Good point. Maybe build them a special compound where they can troll each other for a while - n posts needed to get out, "ignore" button still active?

[RodeoX]

lets face it, the only reason BTC is at $130 is because its a shelter for criminal money. If you think otherwise I may have a bridge you maybe interested in buying.

I am not going to bash you because a lot of people think this from all the sensational articles about bitcoin and illegal markets. If you stick around you will find that the serious money in the bitcoin economy is currently in the hands of speculators and venture capitalists. It may be more interesting to talk about black market guns and drugs, but it is not representative. U.S. dollars are the currency of choice for criminals.