Seeking feedback/suggestions: Bitcoin Poker Chips from BTCC Mint

[hybridsole]

I agree with Bobby that offering low denomination poker chips kind of defeats the purpose.  Right now it costs roughly 100 bits ($0.40) at a minimum to send a transaction.  Some days less, other days it may cost much more.  This means that the current lowest denomination, the 1000 bit chip, would cost roughly 10% of the coin value to redeem and spend.  That is already cost prohibitive, and anything over 10% in network fees would not be worth redeeming IMO. 

I love the idea of more affordable poker chips that can actually be spent and redeemed, however with BTC it's just not possible. 

Bobby, have you considered doing a set with Litecoin? 

[Ticked]

I'd love to be able to buy a 3-5 color 300/500 piece set that wouldn't break the bank. A truly playable set.

The issue is that the eventual selling price of each chip would be several dollars, and that's the overhead on top of whatever the BTC value is in them.

In other words, whatever lower denominations of BTC, the poker chips with BTC loaded would NEVER be priced competitively with regular poker chips you buy at the store.  Would that still be acceptable?

The other issue is that with smaller denominations of BTC, it becomes increasingly ineffective, cost-wise, to redeem them.  As the TX fee alone would constitute a larger and larger portion of the total amount.  (Even if SegWit addresses are used, the fees would be so high!)

thanks,
Bobby

Absolutely acceptable.   This isnt for the hobby poker play buying 300 sets at cvs for $40. i mean who buys BTC coins at the store This set however would be exquisite. top quality clay chips typically are priced in the low dollar per chip range.  I play often and typically provide a 650 chip set with a set of plates for higher values (all non denominational) Something as simple as 25 sat, 50 sat, 100 sat,  500 sat, 1k sat. (or whatever makes sense for you) a new micro chip set, that id happily bring to card night.  A lot of the cohorts ive gotten into crypto have been poker players. so please, 13 gram clay, no composite.  Of course whatever premium comes with manufacturing is acceptible, but id love if this was an endless supply thing. if at the end of the night, guys wanna keep their chips rather than cash out, the ability to replenish supply would be fantastic for marketing and ongoing sales. as for redemption....if its a marketing tool and product, why care about redemption? They are still serving a purpose. further, perhaps fees will decrease eventually or even enough chain splits may make redemption worth it.

Regardless, I never thought of use  for redeem. mostly novelty and spread awareness at what is currently a potentially reasonable sum per set. a price under 2k for a for a 500 set (650 set prefered) loaded would be very attractive imo. of course more details needed.  Glad to talk more on this. i have more thoughts.

thanks for the reply

Thanks for the suggestions.

For your 650-chip set, what denominations (in bits) and what amounts of each color/denomination would you recommend, to make up the 650 chips?


thanks,
Bobby

I did out a 650 chip set and the price point wouldn't make sense imo, so Lets look at 500
75    -   .50 USD        125    Bit    White               30.0     USD
200  -   1   USD         250    Bit    Blue               200.0     USD
200  -   5   USD         1250  Bit    Red              1000.0     USD
25    -   20 USD         5000  Bit    Green             500.0     USD

Maybe an optional add on of 100 USD plates (Black)  25000 BIT sold in 5 or 10 packs.

NET 1737.5 USD chip value/loadable BTC value. I like these denominations.  Its a playable amount for a full table .50-.50 NL holdem home game. Add $100 USD plates as an option and it could play 1-2 NL.




More thoughts.  I know you can't ship loaded to US.  However, just a thought.  It would be kinda cool to label the face in FIAT currencies .50, 1, 5, 25,100 but load the appropriate bits relative to conversion ratio to it at the time of minting. Perhaps around the Face rim of the coin "Corresponding ฿ Value loaded at time of minting"  or something more concise, but to that affect.  If done, I would not use your star marking on the holo which denotes when the chips were minted.  This would make people no longer play with old chips.  Let the use of chips loaded at different times act as its own inherent lottery. I proposed this idea with the prospect of it being a usable item.  Yes, Yes, this would mean each chip batch may contain a different amount of bits, but also that at the time of production it was accurate to the true conversion value. (An added time stamp and collectible factor) Over a long enough timeline, they'll all be more valuable than at time of minting....eventually negating the price to redeem - one would hope. - or once crypto is mass accepted - these become the loonies and toonies of the world! Ha!

  I see this approach as a potentially feasibly worthwhile business decision. It would also mean you could continue to produce chips for customers based on their FIAT values.  this way a replacement roll of 50 1 dollar chips will always cost 50 + your fees.  Not .012 + your fees.  As eventually .012฿ will likely be worth far north of the $50...making them more difficult to replace & less likely to be played with/given away equating less returning customers.  At the right prices, Id gladly let friends walk with some chips knowing I can rebuy them with the funds they bought in with.


Trust me I love physical bitcoins, and your chips/blocks. They are all incredibly rewarding to have, hold, and show. However, no bitcoin loaded item is out there that is meant to be used (not meaning redeemed), but used as it the object it is was intended.  Not yet can I purchase something with a physical bitcoin in a normal establishment....but home poker games....these could actually be used and definitely serve towards promotion of crypto and BTCC as a company.  This idea, excites me. Hell, add a nice fat titanium (unloaded) BTCC Dealer token to the mix as an add-on as well.  


NOTE: I'd be equally, perhaps more excited to see this done with Litecoins if that helps ease the transaction cost of redemption. Further, in response to using circulated BTC...I'm not against it.  Hell... Do both. One will be more expensive and collectible, the other cheaper and more usable.  I'm so hyped on this whole idea that if you don't produce it, I may


Thanks for entertaining my enthusiasm.

[Ticked]

I agree with Bobby that offering low denomination poker chips kind of defeats the purpose.  Right now it costs roughly 100 bits ($0.40) at a minimum to send a transaction.  Some days less, other days it may cost much more.  This means that the current lowest denomination, the 1000 bit chip, would cost roughly 10% of the coin value to redeem and spend.  That is already cost prohibitive, and anything over 10% in network fees would not be worth redeeming IMO. 

I love the idea of more affordable poker chips that can actually be spent and redeemed, however with BTC it's just not possible. 

Bobby, have you considered doing a set with Litecoin? 

Yes, to send a transaction theres the cost, but to import priv key to local wallet...

And it depends what your purpose is.  Mine is not to buy and redeem poker chips. its to play a game i enjoy and talk shit about crypto while doing it.  To promote enthusiasm and awareness.

[bobbyclee]

I'd love to be able to buy a 3-5 color 300/500 piece set that wouldn't break the bank. A truly playable set.

The issue is that the eventual selling price of each chip would be several dollars, and that's the overhead on top of whatever the BTC value is in them.

In other words, whatever lower denominations of BTC, the poker chips with BTC loaded would NEVER be priced competitively with regular poker chips you buy at the store.  Would that still be acceptable?

The other issue is that with smaller denominations of BTC, it becomes increasingly ineffective, cost-wise, to redeem them.  As the TX fee alone would constitute a larger and larger portion of the total amount.  (Even if SegWit addresses are used, the fees would be so high!)

thanks,
Bobby

Absolutely acceptable.   This isnt for the hobby poker play buying 300 sets at cvs for $40. i mean who buys BTC coins at the store This set however would be exquisite. top quality clay chips typically are priced in the low dollar per chip range.  I play often and typically provide a 650 chip set with a set of plates for higher values (all non denominational) Something as simple as 25 sat, 50 sat, 100 sat,  500 sat, 1k sat. (or whatever makes sense for you) a new micro chip set, that id happily bring to card night.  A lot of the cohorts ive gotten into crypto have been poker players. so please, 13 gram clay, no composite.  Of course whatever premium comes with manufacturing is acceptible, but id love if this was an endless supply thing. if at the end of the night, guys wanna keep their chips rather than cash out, the ability to replenish supply would be fantastic for marketing and ongoing sales. as for redemption....if its a marketing tool and product, why care about redemption? They are still serving a purpose. further, perhaps fees will decrease eventually or even enough chain splits may make redemption worth it.

Regardless, I never thought of use  for redeem. mostly novelty and spread awareness at what is currently a potentially reasonable sum per set. a price under 2k for a for a 500 set (650 set prefered) loaded would be very attractive imo. of course more details needed.  Glad to talk more on this. i have more thoughts.

thanks for the reply

Thanks for the suggestions.

For your 650-chip set, what denominations (in bits) and what amounts of each color/denomination would you recommend, to make up the 650 chips?


thanks,
Bobby

I did out a 650 chip set and the price point wouldn't make sense imo, so Lets look at 500
75    -   .50 USD        125    Bit    White               30.0     USD
200  -   1   USD         250    Bit    Blue               200.0     USD
200  -   5   USD         1250  Bit    Red              1000.0     USD
25    -   20 USD         5000  Bit    Green             500.0     USD

Maybe an optional add on of 100 USD plates (Black)  25000 BIT sold in 5 or 10 packs.

NET 1737.5 USD chip value/loadable BTC value. I like these denominations.  Its a playable amount for a full table .50-.50 NL holdem home game. Add $100 USD plates as an option and it could play 1-2 NL.




More thoughts.  I know you can't ship loaded to US.  However, just a thought.  It would be kinda cool to label the face in FIAT currencies .50, 1, 5, 25,100 but load the appropriate bits relative to conversion ratio to it at the time of minting. Perhaps around the Face rim of the coin "Corresponding ฿ Value loaded at time of minting"  or something more concise, but to that affect.  If done, I would not use your star marking on the holo which denotes when the chips were minted.  This would make people no longer play with old chips.  Let the use of chips loaded at different times act as its own inherent lottery. I proposed this idea with the prospect of it being a usable item.  Yes, Yes, this would mean each chip batch may contain a different amount of bits, but also that at the time of production it was accurate to the true conversion value. (An added time stamp and collectible factor) Over a long enough timeline, they'll all be more valuable than at time of minting....eventually negating the price to redeem - one would hope. - or once crypto is mass accepted - these become the loonies and toonies of the world! Ha!

  I see this approach as a potentially feasibly worthwhile business decision. It would also mean you could continue to produce chips for customers based on their FIAT values.  this way a replacement roll of 50 1 dollar chips will always cost 50 + your fees.  Not .012 + your fees.  As eventually .012฿ will likely be worth far north of the $50...making them more difficult to replace & less likely to be played with/given away equating less returning customers.  At the right prices, Id gladly let friends walk with some chips knowing I can rebuy them with the funds they bought in with.


Trust me I love physical bitcoins, and your chips/blocks. They are all incredibly rewarding to have, hold, and show. However, no bitcoin loaded item is out there that is meant to be used (not meaning redeemed), but used as it the object it is was intended.  Not yet can I purchase something with a physical bitcoin in a normal establishment....but home poker games....these could actually be used and definitely serve towards promotion of crypto and BTCC as a company.  This idea, excites me. Hell, add a nice fat titanium (unloaded) BTCC Dealer token to the mix as an add-on as well.  


NOTE: I'd be equally, perhaps more excited to see this done with Litecoins if that helps ease the transaction cost of redemption. Further, in response to using circulated BTC...I'm not against it.  Hell... Do both. One will be more expensive and collectible, the other cheaper and more usable.  I'm so hyped on this whole idea that if you don't produce it, I may


Thanks for entertaining my enthusiasm.

To be honest, I'm not very convinced about physical bitcoin chips with loaded BTC that's denominated in Fiat amounts.
It's seems quite a hassle and won't have any consistency.

Lower denominations ok... probably the lowest we will go now is 500 bits, or maybe 200 bits if SegWit transactions are cheap to send.  We still need to verify.

Alternative is to create different color chips, all with different denomination labels on front of chips (like "1, 5, 10, 25, 100, 500, 1000" etc), yet with all of them having the same amount of BTC value in them (like 1,000 or 500 bits each). This will make it more affordable to buy a whole 500-count chip set, and still have multiple colors and denominations, for playing poker.

In summary: chip colors go with face-value denominations, but they all do have BTC value in them, and have the same, minimum amount of BTC in them.

What do you all think of that?

thanks,
Bobby

[Ticked]

I'd love to be able to buy a 3-5 color 300/500 piece set that wouldn't break the bank. A truly playable set.

The issue is that the eventual selling price of each chip would be several dollars, and that's the overhead on top of whatever the BTC value is in them.

In other words, whatever lower denominations of BTC, the poker chips with BTC loaded would NEVER be priced competitively with regular poker chips you buy at the store.  Would that still be acceptable?

The other issue is that with smaller denominations of BTC, it becomes increasingly ineffective, cost-wise, to redeem them.  As the TX fee alone would constitute a larger and larger portion of the total amount.  (Even if SegWit addresses are used, the fees would be so high!)

thanks,
Bobby

Absolutely acceptable.   This isnt for the hobby poker play buying 300 sets at cvs for $40. i mean who buys BTC coins at the store This set however would be exquisite. top quality clay chips typically are priced in the low dollar per chip range.  I play often and typically provide a 650 chip set with a set of plates for higher values (all non denominational) Something as simple as 25 sat, 50 sat, 100 sat,  500 sat, 1k sat. (or whatever makes sense for you) a new micro chip set, that id happily bring to card night.  A lot of the cohorts ive gotten into crypto have been poker players. so please, 13 gram clay, no composite.  Of course whatever premium comes with manufacturing is acceptible, but id love if this was an endless supply thing. if at the end of the night, guys wanna keep their chips rather than cash out, the ability to replenish supply would be fantastic for marketing and ongoing sales. as for redemption....if its a marketing tool and product, why care about redemption? They are still serving a purpose. further, perhaps fees will decrease eventually or even enough chain splits may make redemption worth it.

Regardless, I never thought of use  for redeem. mostly novelty and spread awareness at what is currently a potentially reasonable sum per set. a price under 2k for a for a 500 set (650 set prefered) loaded would be very attractive imo. of course more details needed.  Glad to talk more on this. i have more thoughts.

thanks for the reply

Thanks for the suggestions.

For your 650-chip set, what denominations (in bits) and what amounts of each color/denomination would you recommend, to make up the 650 chips?


thanks,
Bobby

I did out a 650 chip set and the price point wouldn't make sense imo, so Lets look at 500
75    -   .50 USD        125    Bit    White               30.0     USD
200  -   1   USD         250    Bit    Blue               200.0     USD
200  -   5   USD         1250  Bit    Red              1000.0     USD
25    -   20 USD         5000  Bit    Green             500.0     USD

Maybe an optional add on of 100 USD plates (Black)  25000 BIT sold in 5 or 10 packs.

NET 1737.5 USD chip value/loadable BTC value. I like these denominations.  Its a playable amount for a full table .50-.50 NL holdem home game. Add $100 USD plates as an option and it could play 1-2 NL.




More thoughts.  I know you can't ship loaded to US.  However, just a thought.  It would be kinda cool to label the face in FIAT currencies .50, 1, 5, 25,100 but load the appropriate bits relative to conversion ratio to it at the time of minting. Perhaps around the Face rim of the coin "Corresponding ฿ Value loaded at time of minting"  or something more concise, but to that affect.  If done, I would not use your star marking on the holo which denotes when the chips were minted.  This would make people no longer play with old chips.  Let the use of chips loaded at different times act as its own inherent lottery. I proposed this idea with the prospect of it being a usable item.  Yes, Yes, this would mean each chip batch may contain a different amount of bits, but also that at the time of production it was accurate to the true conversion value. (An added time stamp and collectible factor) Over a long enough timeline, they'll all be more valuable than at time of minting....eventually negating the price to redeem - one would hope. - or once crypto is mass accepted - these become the loonies and toonies of the world! Ha!

  I see this approach as a potentially feasibly worthwhile business decision. It would also mean you could continue to produce chips for customers based on their FIAT values.  this way a replacement roll of 50 1 dollar chips will always cost 50 + your fees.  Not .012 + your fees.  As eventually .012฿ will likely be worth far north of the $50...making them more difficult to replace & less likely to be played with/given away equating less returning customers.  At the right prices, Id gladly let friends walk with some chips knowing I can rebuy them with the funds they bought in with.


Trust me I love physical bitcoins, and your chips/blocks. They are all incredibly rewarding to have, hold, and show. However, no bitcoin loaded item is out there that is meant to be used (not meaning redeemed), but used as it the object it is was intended.  Not yet can I purchase something with a physical bitcoin in a normal establishment....but home poker games....these could actually be used and definitely serve towards promotion of crypto and BTCC as a company.  This idea, excites me. Hell, add a nice fat titanium (unloaded) BTCC Dealer token to the mix as an add-on as well.  


NOTE: I'd be equally, perhaps more excited to see this done with Litecoins if that helps ease the transaction cost of redemption. Further, in response to using circulated BTC...I'm not against it.  Hell... Do both. One will be more expensive and collectible, the other cheaper and more usable.  I'm so hyped on this whole idea that if you don't produce it, I may


Thanks for entertaining my enthusiasm.

To be honest, I'm not very convinced about physical bitcoin chips with loaded BTC that's denominated in Fiat amounts.
It's seems quite a hassle and won't have any consistency.

Lower denominations ok... probably the lowest we will go now is 500 bits, or maybe 200 bits if SegWit transactions are cheap to send.  We still need to verify.

Alternative is to create different color chips, all with different denomination labels on front of chips (like "1, 5, 10, 25, 100, 500, 1000" etc), yet with all of them having the same amount of BTC value in them (like 1,000 or 500 bits each). This will make it more affordable to buy a whole 500-count chip set, and still have multiple colors and denominations, for playing poker.

In summary: chip colors go with face-value denominations, but they all do have BTC value in them, and have the same, minimum amount of BTC in them.

What do you all think of that?

thanks,
Bobby

It's not my favorite version of this idea. But if that's what it took for it to get made...I'm still in.

[Hhampuz]

I agree with Bobby that offering low denomination poker chips kind of defeats the purpose.  Right now it costs roughly 100 bits ($0.40) at a minimum to send a transaction.  Some days less, other days it may cost much more.  This means that the current lowest denomination, the 1000 bit chip, would cost roughly 10% of the coin value to redeem and spend.  That is already cost prohibitive, and anything over 10% in network fees would not be worth redeeming IMO. 

I love the idea of more affordable poker chips that can actually be spent and redeemed, however with BTC it's just not possible. 

Bobby, have you considered doing a set with Litecoin? 

Well I guess it depends on where BTC goes in the future? If BTC get's to $15k each I don't think it'll cost 100bits to send a transaction, right? I mean I'm not really buying these or any other collectibles with a small bit of BTC on them to redeem today, or tomorrow. Just to keep for the future where we may or may not see $10k+ per BTC. In which case it's neat to have the lower denoms .

[coin@coin]

I liked the denominations as they were released in the first place. Lower than that not sure.

But low denomination coins of any metal would also be great, even 0.1

Freshly mined coins are very interesting but if it has to be a pain for BTCC maybe limit freshly minted BTC to certain minimum denominations.

[vizique]

I agree with Bobby that offering low denomination poker chips kind of defeats the purpose.  Right now it costs roughly 100 bits ($0.40) at a minimum to send a transaction.  Some days less, other days it may cost much more.  This means that the current lowest denomination, the 1000 bit chip, would cost roughly 10% of the coin value to redeem and spend.  That is already cost prohibitive, and anything over 10% in network fees would not be worth redeeming IMO. 

I love the idea of more affordable poker chips that can actually be spent and redeemed, however with BTC it's just not possible. 

Bobby, have you considered doing a set with Litecoin? 

Well I guess it depends on where BTC goes in the future? If BTC get's to $15k each I don't think it'll cost 100bits to send a transaction, right? I mean I'm not really buying these or any other collectibles with a small bit of BTC on them to redeem today, or tomorrow. Just to keep for the future where we may or may not see $10k+ per BTC. In which case it's neat to have the lower denoms .

This.

If you believe that long term BTC will be in 6 figures, the lower denominations are viable. Just not yet from a manufacturing cost perspective.

Viz

[HabBear]

If you want people to use these chips for actual poker games you need to make them less expensive to buy.

No one can play a poker game with 5 chips. And no one is going to pay BTC0.15 for just 10 chips if they want to play a game.

You've priced the purpose out of your product.

How do I buy a 100 chip set for a price that's reasonable. What's a fair premium over the face value of the chips I'm buying? You need to strike a better balance. These are so much more valuable than "shove in a drawer, look at twice a year collectibles".

I look forward to hearing from you!

I know you can't ship loaded to US. 

Why can't they be shipped loaded to the US? They are the same as coins and coins can be shipped in the US. ANACS ships loaded Casascius coins all the time from the US after they've graded the coins.