bustadice – Next Generation Dice

[Lakai01]

Mempool looks empty right now https://mempool.space/ but still the withdrawal for instant withdrawal is higher compared to the required fee but normally bustadice offer the lowest withdrawal fee for the transaction even if it is an instant withdrawal request.

I don't think this is a bug, because I don't think bustadice calculates the withdrawal fees itself, but gets them via an API.

But to be honest, I would generally not use instant withdraws. Currently the fees for a delayed withdrawal (which usually arrives within a few hours anyways) are as follows:



Whereas an instant withdraw is 5 times more expensive:



So I would only use it in exceptional cases when I really need the BTC urgently (by "urgently" I mean in the next 30 minutes). However, if I can live with the fact that the coins are delayed for a few hours, non-instant withdraws are definitely the best choice, especially if you make withdrawals on a regular basis.

[1713881787]

1713881787

[devans]

bustadice estimates the fee with two different methods and then uses the more conservative (i.e. higher) estimate. The first estimate is based on the most recent blocks that were mined. This estimate is good at recognizing a volatile fee market. Even if the mempool is empty now, if the transaction fees in its rolling window were high it will tend to err on the high side. However, it's slow to react to fees suddenly spiking because it only takes into account blocks that have actually been mined. That's where the second estimate comes in: The second estimate looks at current mempool and gauges what the fee rate needs to be for a transaction to be in included in the next block (i.e. the top 1 MB of the mempool) with a high probability.

Estimating fees this way is not without downside. Like you noticed, it can be relatively slow to react to a backlog that's being cleared. But the upside is that our fees are very low whenever the size of the mempool is relatively constant and that withdrawals rarely become "stuck".

[Findingnemo]

bustadice estimates the fee with two different methods and then uses the more conservative (i.e. higher) estimate. The first estimate is based on the most recent blocks that were mined. This estimate is good at recognizing a volatile fee market. Even if the mempool is empty now, if the transaction fees in its rolling window were high it will tend to err on the high side. However, it's slow to react to fees suddenly spiking because it only takes into account blocks that have actually been mined. That's where the second estimate comes in: The second estimate looks at current mempool and gauges what the fee rate needs to be for a transaction to be in included in the next block (i.e. the top 1 MB of the mempool) with a high probability.

Estimating fees this way is not without downside. Like you noticed, it can be relatively slow to react to a backlog that's being cleared. But the upside is that our fees are very low whenever the size of the mempool is relatively constant and that withdrawals rarely become "stuck".

Thanks for clearing my doubt. Yes I agree that withdrawal from bustadice never stuck from my experiences it will be confirmed in the next 30 minutes and also the fees are relatively low in the [ast even when the mempool get clogged with higher number of transaction that is the main reason why I had this doubt.

Mempool looks empty right now https://mempool.space/ but still the withdrawal for instant withdrawal is higher compared to the required fee but normally bustadice offer the lowest withdrawal fee for the transaction even if it is an instant withdrawal request.

But to be honest, I would generally not use instant withdraws. Currently the fees for a delayed withdrawal (which usually arrives within a few hours anyways) are as follows:

Most of the time I used instant withdrawal feature from bustadice that is why I asked the question which I had in my mind for few days.Yes as you said normal withdrawal fee is cheaper and it may arrives in the next few hours but you can't say that it will happen all the time because in my experience it may take upto 24 hours at rare cases which I don't want to face to be honest.Waiting is painful.

[Lakai01]

Most of the time I used instant withdrawal feature from bustadice that is why I asked the question which I had in my mind for few days.Yes as you said normal withdrawal fee is cheaper and it may arrives in the next few hours but you can't say that it will happen all the time because in my experience it may take upto 24 hours at rare cases which I don't want to face to be honest.Waiting is painful.

I can understand that very well, I feel the same way, that I can hardly wait for the arrival of the coins The 24 hours delay has never happened to me before. I usually have them paid out around 9 am (UTC) and the coins are then in my wallet by noon at the latest.

Maybe the batch payment runs daily around noon? Would be worth an investigation-round

[Findingnemo]

Most of the time I used instant withdrawal feature from bustadice that is why I asked the question which I had in my mind for few days.Yes as you said normal withdrawal fee is cheaper and it may arrives in the next few hours but you can't say that it will happen all the time because in my experience it may take upto 24 hours at rare cases which I don't want to face to be honest.Waiting is painful.

I can understand that very well, I feel the same way, that I can hardly wait for the arrival of the coins The 24 hours delay has never happened to me before. I usually have them paid out around 9 am (UTC) and the coins are then in my wallet by noon at the latest.

Maybe the batch payment runs daily around noon? Would be worth an investigation-round

Haven't noticed the time strap when my bath transactions gets included into the mempool because mostly I used instant as I mentioned but I guess its worth to investigate. Next time I will have a closer look at what time the batch withdrawal takes place.

[logfiles]

Most of the time I used instant withdrawal feature from bustadice that is why I asked the question which I had in my mind for few days.Yes as you said normal withdrawal fee is cheaper and it may arrives in the next few hours but you can't say that it will happen all the time because in my experience it may take upto 24 hours at rare cases which I don't want to face to be honest.Waiting is painful.

@Lakai01  is right, For my case too, I have never had to wait for so many hours for my withdrawal to be approved. It usually takes around 6 hours or less. What I do is make a withdrawal late in the night, By the time I wake up, I find when the BTC is already in my wallet.

Bustadice's flexible fee option is one of the fairest among casinos and exchanges. Most just have a fixed withdrawal fee which is usually very high regardless of the average transaction fee rate at a given time.

[RHavar]

It's been discussed on the chat a few times, but I don't think in the forums. But the logic for queued withdrawals is quite complex, but basically they are only processed when someone does an instant withdrawal. When someone does an instant withdrawal, it appends queued withdrawals that either: a) make the coin selection more efficient or b) are older than 12 hours but doesn't harm coin selection.


It's actually a brilliant system because it confuses most of the bitcoin analysis services because it's able to create so many "changeless" transactions, and allows people to do pretty cheap withdrawals if they're willing to wait.

[devans]

TL;DR: On December 15, all remaining offsite investments will be removed and the commission rate will become dynamic based on the bankroll's size. This is currently beneficial for investors as it will lower the commission rate, but will disincentivize the bankroll becoming larger in the future. Players are not affected.


When I increased the bankroll commission to 50% of the expected profits in September 2019 I had hoped to reduce the size of the bankroll and therefore the total amount of investors' money bustabit and bustadice are responsible for. However, one year later the combined bankrolls still total more than 11,000 BTC. To more actively manage the size of the bankrolls I will be making two changes effective December 15:

First, offsite investing will be retired completely. This will immediately reduce the size of the bankrolls by more than 4,000 BTC and is also in the interest of fairness towards the majority of investors who did not have the opportunity to invest offsite. All remaining offsite investments will be eliminated and affected investors will receive an equivalent amount of dilution fee credits.

Second, bustabit and bustadice will both move to a dynamic commission model where the commission changes in real-time based on the size of the bankroll:

commission rate = bankroll / 10,000 BTC

On bustabit this means that the commission rate will be roughly the same as now or slightly lower. On bustadice these changes slash the commission by more than half, down to ~20%.

[JollyGood]

With the greatest respect devans, which safety mechanisms are in place to ensure those 11,000+ Bitcoin investors will have access to both their profits and their investment in the unfortunate event something were to happen to you (incapacitated or death)?

I mean 11,000 BTC x $16,000 per Bitcoin = $ a lot of USD

TL;DR: On December 15, all remaining offsite investments will be removed and the commission rate will become dynamic based on the bankroll's size. This is currently beneficial for investors as it will lower the commission rate, but will disincentivize the bankroll becoming larger in the future. Players are not affected.


When I increased the bankroll commission to 50% of the expected profits in September 2019 I had hoped to reduce the size of the bankroll and therefore the total amount of investors' money bustabit and bustadice are responsible for. However, one year later the combined bankrolls still total more than 11,000 BTC. To more actively manage the size of the bankrolls I will be making two changes effective December 15:

First, offsite investing will be retired completely. This will immediately reduce the size of the bankrolls by more than 4,000 BTC and is also in the interest of fairness towards the majority of investors who did not have the opportunity to invest offsite. All remaining offsite investments will be eliminated and affected investors will receive an equivalent amount of dilution fee credits.

Second, bustabit and bustadice will both move to a dynamic commission model where the commission changes in real-time based on the size of the bankroll:

commission rate = bankroll / 10,000 BTC

On bustabit this means that the commission rate will be roughly the same as now or slightly lower. On bustadice these changes slash the commission by more than half, down to ~20%.

[devans]

With the greatest respect devans, which safety mechanisms are in place to ensure those 11,000+ Bitcoin investors will have access to both their profits and their investment in the unfortunate event something were to happen to you (incapacitated or death)?

I mean 11,000 BTC x $16,000 per Bitcoin = $ a lot of USD

Without going into detail, I've taken precautions to ensure that everyone including bankroll investors would be able to safely withdraw in case something were to happen to me. It may take some time, but everybody would eventually receive their money.

Hopefully that will never be necessary, though 🤞

[pascal257]

commission rate = bankroll / 10,000 BTC

Damn, thats pretty smart.

[JollyGood]

Thank you so much for the post devans. I hope it never comes to it but in the unfortunate event something untoward did happen to you all bases are covered and all investors will be able to have access to their funds.

It really is a massive responsibility for someone to carry with them on their shoulders, I would feel uncomfortable knowing I was responsible for 11,000+ BTC that people trusted me enough to invest so hats off to you.

With the greatest respect devans, which safety mechanisms are in place to ensure those 11,000+ Bitcoin investors will have access to both their profits and their investment in the unfortunate event something were to happen to you (incapacitated or death)?

I mean 11,000 BTC x $16,000 per Bitcoin = $ a lot of USD

Without going into detail, I've taken precautions to ensure that everyone including bankroll investors would be able to safely withdraw in case something were to happen to me. It may take some time, but everybody would eventually receive their money.

Hopefully that will never be necessary, though 🤞

[devans]

I just compiled the historical wager volume for both in Bitcoin and in USD (at the daily average price) for bustabit over in its thread. Maybe the same information for bustadice is useful to some bankroll investors or at least interesting :

Code:

  month  |  wagered_btc   |   wagered_usd
---------+----------------+-----------------
 2017-10 |   848.30518500 |   $4,633,850.91
 2017-11 |  3929.27561200 |  $28,929,665.62
 2017-12 |   826.32601800 |  $12,299,575.19
 2018-01 |  1792.39834200 |  $22,537,716.64
 2018-02 |  1939.98714400 |  $18,688,114.08
 2018-03 |  2853.28154500 |  $25,345,478.93
 2018-04 |  2040.41220500 |  $16,453,544.85
 2018-05 |  3582.37442900 |  $30,049,772.67
 2018-06 |  4753.43479200 |  $31,669,202.08
 2018-07 | 10500.57564700 |  $76,662,330.66
 2018-08 | 36744.34292000 | $244,907,588.30
 2018-09 | 11103.74686800 |  $73,346,860.38
 2018-10 |  7837.70090300 |  $50,830,790.65
 2018-11 |  7661.28931100 |  $40,101,163.64
 2018-12 | 15487.18053300 |  $57,290,865.78
 2019-01 |  9144.02140300 |  $34,090,068.56
 2019-02 |  8350.60175800 |  $30,875,147.29
 2019-03 | 15290.14186000 |  $60,002,083.58
 2019-04 |  9597.94873000 |  $48,893,592.52
 2019-05 |  7712.53518400 |  $53,562,749.95
 2019-06 |  2019.44440000 |  $18,777,287.47
 2019-07 |  2564.21254300 |  $26,989,095.90
 2019-08 |  2880.78535300 |  $30,324,468.11
 2019-09 |  3868.86600600 |  $37,913,613.04
 2019-10 |  4318.73900600 |  $36,023,376.05
 2019-11 |  3144.09406500 |  $27,140,287.86
 2019-12 |  5062.34730500 |  $36,926,826.04
 2020-01 |  4204.46877200 |  $34,187,893.47
 2020-02 |  8333.31955300 |  $81,348,161.95
 2020-03 |  9590.90894000 |  $67,873,206.31
 2020-04 | 10760.61703800 |  $78,428,408.12
 2020-05 | 15341.12983900 | $142,242,807.93
 2020-06 |  4153.90411100 |  $39,172,398.71
 2020-07 |  7018.53836300 |  $66,966,906.42
 2020-08 |  5052.83922900 |  $58,642,446.96
 2020-09 |  3223.88808000 |  $34,534,315.09
 2020-10 |  3135.74639000 |  $37,164,604.65

[numanoid]

I just compiled the historical wager volume for both in Bitcoin and in USD (at the daily average price) for bustabit over in its thread. Maybe the same information for bustadice is useful to some bankroll investors or at least interesting :

Just comparing between bustabit & bustadice total wagered, while on bustabit, total wagered for each month seems more "steady" than bustadice, which is decreased.
Seems people are more interested with crash game rather than dice game or they are more familiar with bustabit than bustadice.

[devans]

bustadice will be offline for a planned database migration on January 1, 2021 starting at 9:00 UTC and will be offline for up to six hours. Deposits made during this time will be credited as soon as bustadice is back online. Queued withdrawals will not be processed while bustadice is offline and will be processed once bustadice is back online.

As always I'll keep this thread updated.

[devans]

Unfortunately I underestimated how long it would take and it looks like bustadice will be offline for at least another hour. I will update this thread as soon as it's back online.

[devans]

bustadice is back online. Sorry for the delay!

[Findingnemo]

bustadice is back online. Sorry for the delay!

I can confirm that bustadice back into online from myside as well.

Still the warning message about the maintenance is showing when enters into the side, should be removed.

[devans]

Still the warning message about the maintenance is showing when enters into the side, should be removed.

Thanks! I didn't have an opportunity to respond right away, but I removed the message after I saw your post.

[klink10k]

site down again?