Bitcoin Forum
May 28, 2018, 08:41:28 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.16.0  [Torrent]. (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 [All]
  Print  
Author Topic: Natural Gas Portable Mining Unit  (Read 2779 times)
Upstream
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 40
Merit: 0


View Profile
October 01, 2017, 07:28:34 PM
 #1

Hello fellow bitcoin mining enthusiasts!

Our company is building a portable bitcoin mine and we're very excited about it. Personally, I only got into Bitcoin and mining at the end of 2016 and since then many of you have helped me learn what I needed to know to attempt this project. This is an amazing community so I figured I would pay you all back with some content and updates on how the project is going. Some details I won't be able to answer just yet, so apologies in advance if some questions go unanswered. In time I will be able to answer any and all questions. I do know portable mining containers have been done before, and I know some other versions may appear to be more capitally efficient than ours. Our application is completely different than these previous iterations AFAIK.. but more on that later.

Please follow us on Twitter, @UpstreamDataInc

Here's what we got so far Kiss





Cheers,
Upstream
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1527496888
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1527496888

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1527496888
Reply with quote  #2

1527496888
Report to moderator
alh
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1526
Merit: 1006


View Profile
October 02, 2017, 07:07:53 PM
 #2

I've never really understood the appeal of a "portable" mining unit. It's never been obvious to me what would motivate somebody that had the electrical infrastructure in place, and Internet access, and location to park the thing to then decide they just wanted to move it? I understand the idea of deliver a complete "box with mining hardware" to a customer with plenty of money and adequate electrical and Internet. But what would motivate a subsequent move and making that "easy" having a big value?

Just my random thoughts on the idea.
NotFuzzyWarm
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1456
Merit: 1044


Evil beware: We have waffles!


View Profile
October 02, 2017, 10:42:02 PM
 #3

Don't think the containerized package is so much about relocating as it is about very fast deployment and being a self-contained solution. Really the only building required would be to house the electrical switchgear and transformers. Might be a good place to put the network gear also but personally the further it can be away from main switchgear the better.

Just pour a pad or at least prepare a hard foundation, put in place, open up and hook up power and go.

edit: And of course have very good security for the site....

For bitcoin to succeed the community must police itself - Joshua Zipkin aka Joshua Alexander leaked AMT A1 miner skype chats
How a miner mfgr SHOULD operate: HaggsFIN trip to Canaan My info useful? Donations welcome! 1Fuzzyk398kDWVjuC5qPX5v6CjSkvbgAbd
-Support Sidehacks miner development. Donations to:   1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
Upstream
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 40
Merit: 0


View Profile
October 02, 2017, 11:12:36 PM
 #4

I've never really understood the appeal of a "portable" mining unit. It's never been obvious to me what would motivate somebody that had the electrical infrastructure in place, and Internet access, and location to park the thing to then decide they just wanted to move it? I understand the idea of deliver a complete "box with mining hardware" to a customer with plenty of money and adequate electrical and Internet. But what would motivate a subsequent move and making that "easy" having a big value?

Just my random thoughts on the idea.

I agree with you. Past iterations like the Cryptokube (think that's what it was called) didn't really have a customer need requiring a portable mine, and hence they failed. If the source of power is incompatible with a stationary farm however and requires a portable mine, then it makes sense Tongue

More to come  Wink
Upstream
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 40
Merit: 0


View Profile
October 11, 2017, 03:27:49 PM
 #5

Today have the power plant in place. Just waiting to fit the gas tree and finish up the electrical on the opposite side of the container, followed by programming and commissioning Smiley

 

Edit - how do I post the picture directly and not the link??
xSkyer
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196
Merit: 100


★777Coin.com★ Fun BTC Casino!


View Profile
October 11, 2017, 03:40:25 PM
 #6

Today have the power plant in place. Just waiting to fit the gas tree and finish up the electrical on the opposite side of the container, followed by programming and commissioning Smiley

 

Edit - how do I post the picture directly and not the link??

That's a pretty interesting project! How many miners are you going to put there? What is the overall cost? It would be great if you could post updates here, I personally don't use twitter. You can't post pictures directly as a newbie. You have to have at least Junior Member rank which you will get after you reach 30 activity points.

aquapanic
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 46
Merit: 0


View Profile
October 11, 2017, 03:52:39 PM
 #7

Is this an "infrastructure" mining unit (network, cabling, power) or is it a "mining" unit (miners included). What sort of final costs are you looking at? I have someone looking at making an infrastructure unit, his costs were looking at 2.5 ish BTC at current prices. Currently have access to a location with very, very cheap power and as NotFuzzyWarm said - rapid deployment and easy scaleability without much physical legwork (running cables, running network, setting up routers) is a critical value-add for this kind of project.
Upstream
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 40
Merit: 0


View Profile
October 11, 2017, 07:08:27 PM
 #8

To start I'm putting in 30 x Antminer S9's, that's about as much as the genset can handle. I've sized the container for a larger load however, and to accommodate a larger genset. So the max I'm thinking is about 72 x S9's, but only after I have this baby up and running and can be confident I won't have issues with condensation (which is my biggest worry honestly).

Is this an "infrastructure" mining unit (network, cabling, power) or is it a "mining" unit (miners included). What sort of final costs are you looking at? I have someone looking at making an infrastructure unit, his costs were looking at 2.5 ish BTC at current prices. Currently have access to a location with very, very cheap power and as NotFuzzyWarm said - rapid deployment and easy scaleability without much physical legwork (running cables, running network, setting up routers) is a critical value-add for this kind of project.

This unit will have a cellular modem, complete wiring and remote circuit control. I'm not planning on building these for sale, but if that was something someone was interested in then obviously we could work something out. The application is obviously not plug-and-play into grid power, as you can see I'm generating power off of natural gas. It is plug-and-play for natural gas.
Maren
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 252
Merit: 101



View Profile
October 11, 2017, 07:16:23 PM
 #9

Some numbers about building costs and efficiency would be great!

ACU would fix any condensation issues.

Upstream
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 40
Merit: 0


View Profile
October 11, 2017, 08:15:49 PM
 #10

Some numbers about building costs and efficiency would be great!

ACU would fix any condensation issues.

As far as I know air conditioning is completely impractical in this case, the air exchange rate is too high. If I didn't use exhaust fans and instead used an industrial AC unit, the additional power draw (as well as the capital cost of the unit) make it impractical from an economics perspective.
Upstream
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 40
Merit: 0


View Profile
October 13, 2017, 03:34:55 PM
 #11



Power plant almost plumbed in. Hopefully electrical is completed by the end of this weekend & ready for testing. Will show more electrical pictures later.
NotFuzzyWarm
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1456
Merit: 1044


Evil beware: We have waffles!


View Profile
October 13, 2017, 03:45:28 PM
 #12

Very interesting project,I think I will watch him in the future.
And I wonder how people in 2017, still do not have Twitter , although it is possible this is old-school and on Facebook . Wish you success in your endeavor!
Screw Twitter, Facebook and other 'social media' schemes.
Never seen the point of 'instant and constant contact' for all the world to see. Their #1 function is to collect data that can then be sold to marketing agencies. What better way to con (many) people into exposing every waking moment of their lives than by having them think everybody in the world needs to know what they had for lunch and other mundane things like that.

That said, looks good! I take it the genset is by a capped off gas well?

For bitcoin to succeed the community must police itself - Joshua Zipkin aka Joshua Alexander leaked AMT A1 miner skype chats
How a miner mfgr SHOULD operate: HaggsFIN trip to Canaan My info useful? Donations welcome! 1Fuzzyk398kDWVjuC5qPX5v6CjSkvbgAbd
-Support Sidehacks miner development. Donations to:   1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
Upstream
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 40
Merit: 0


View Profile
October 13, 2017, 03:49:20 PM
 #13

Very interesting project,I think I will watch him in the future.
And I wonder how people in 2017, still do not have Twitter , although it is possible this is old-school and on Facebook . Wish you success in your endeavor!
Screw Twitter, Facebook and other 'social media' schemes.
Never seen the point of 'instant and constant contact' for all the world to see. Their #1 function is to collect data that can then be sold to marketing agencies. What better way to con (many) people into exposing every waking moment of their lives than by having them think everybody in the world needs to know what they had for lunch and other mundane things like that.

That said, looks good! I take it the genset is by a capped off gas well?

Bitcoin twitter is a lot of fun, I don't use any other social media though (unless Reddit is considered social media), just Twitter bitcoin feeds. Get into it Tongue

You're close re the capped off gas well, more on that soon when I tie it in  Kiss
NotFuzzyWarm
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1456
Merit: 1044


Evil beware: We have waffles!


View Profile
October 14, 2017, 01:52:28 AM
 #14

Will you be using a single generator which operates 24 hours or will you use 2 generators for 12  hours shift
If you use one that runs 24 hours can you please tell me the cost and brand name of generator for 30 S9 miners you are using
12 hrs shift? Riiiight....
He is not talking about a typical home portable generator. These are what is know as Prime Power generators. That means they are made to run for MONTHS and more between having to be taken off line for inspection.

They are available in most parts of the world, just look for used ones. Good example is http://www.criticalpower.com/generators/480-kw-cummins-natural-gas-generator-gta-28/ Ja that particular one is a standby vs Prime but was a quick grab from their site.

For bitcoin to succeed the community must police itself - Joshua Zipkin aka Joshua Alexander leaked AMT A1 miner skype chats
How a miner mfgr SHOULD operate: HaggsFIN trip to Canaan My info useful? Donations welcome! 1Fuzzyk398kDWVjuC5qPX5v6CjSkvbgAbd
-Support Sidehacks miner development. Donations to:   1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
Upstream
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 40
Merit: 0


View Profile
October 14, 2017, 02:45:22 AM
 #15

Yeah this particular genset is a 5.7L GM, pretty common for natural gas.

Cost is a secret Tongue
Upstream
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 40
Merit: 0


View Profile
October 14, 2017, 04:15:21 PM
 #16

I doubt I'll ever discuss costs, but it isn't exactly rocket science to price something similar out yourselves. Also, since this is really a prototype I have a lot of optimization to do for the next one. I'd expect I could get costs down by at least 25%.

More important that capital cost is operating cost, that's my major concern. Gensets require maintenance and must be checked regularly etc. Mining doesn't work if operating costs are like $0.10 / kWh or greater, I'd be crushed when the bear market returns.
Upstream
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 40
Merit: 0


View Profile
October 18, 2017, 02:32:48 PM
 #17

Programming the controller today, should hopefully have the mine installed on Friday. I'll post pictures this wknd if all goes well  Cool
McKaig
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 41
Merit: 0


View Profile WWW
October 20, 2017, 10:20:33 PM
 #18

Where are you building this? 

We have extremely cheap Natural Gas in my area, and Im starting to get ideas.  I've already designed a 20ft container capable of housing 54 S9's, however would rely on external power source.  Nat Gas is very interesting.. 
Merptastic
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 66
Merit: 10


View Profile
October 21, 2017, 01:31:44 AM
 #19

Where are you building this?  

We have extremely cheap Natural Gas in my area, and Im starting to get ideas.  I've already designed a 20ft container capable of housing 54 S9's, however would rely on external power source.  Nat Gas is very interesting..  

By cheap, want to give a rough cost per GJ?

Natural gas in my area cost about $4.7 USD per GJ (converts to roughly 278 kWh).

That being said, I have no idea just how efficient these natural gas generators. I've checked Cummins website and it's only specified as "Incredibly Efficient Operation". I'd be nice to have a number.

How about natural oil mate? in the picture you have posted I don't see any miners, it's just a gas pump or what is it exactly?

It just looks like a natural gas fed generator with meters and a rack for miners in the background.

What do you mean by natural oil? Crude oil?

could you convert gas To electricity and spend less money than producing electricity with water?

Are you talking about hydropower? And yes you can use natural gas to make electricity using a natural gas generator.
McKaig
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 41
Merit: 0


View Profile WWW
October 21, 2017, 03:50:59 PM
 #20

Where are you building this?  

We have extremely cheap Natural Gas in my area, and Im starting to get ideas.  I've already designed a 20ft container capable of housing 54 S9's, however would rely on external power source.  Nat Gas is very interesting..  

By cheap, want to give a rough cost per GJ?

Natural gas in my area cost about $4.7 USD per GJ (converts to roughly 278 kWh).

That being said, I have no idea just how efficient these natural gas generators. I've checked Cummins website and it's only specified as "Incredibly Efficient Operation". I'd be nice to have a number.


Our rates are listed in CAD $/m3.  Link to rates:  https://www.uniongas.com/residential/rates/current-rates/rate-m1

How did you determine how many kWh you can generate per GJ? 

I've been looking into Microturbines to see if this method could be viable.  What I do know is that our area has an abundance of Nat Gas, and I have two uncles who work in senior management positions at the utility company, who could help me negotiate larger commercial pricing.
McKaig
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 41
Merit: 0


View Profile WWW
October 21, 2017, 04:22:10 PM
 #21


Our rates are listed in CAD $/m3.  Link to rates:  https://www.uniongas.com/residential/rates/current-rates/rate-m1


I did some math to compare my rate to yours, using these rates from the Gas company in CAD:

Gas used:  13.7312 ¢/m3
Gas price adjustment:  3.4547 ¢/m3
Storage:  0.7153 ¢/m3
Delivery:  8.0131 ¢/m3
Delivery price adjustment:  0.5143 ¢/m3
Monthly charge:  $21.00 (Not used for GJ calculation)

Total = $0.264286 CAD /m3
 
1 GJ = 26.137 m3 (http://callmepower.ca/en/faq/gigajoule-cubic-metre-gas)

Therefore 1 GJ = $6.91 CAD, or $5.47 USD  This is taking into account the highest residential rate, for the first 100m3.  Price drops after 100m3, then again after 250m3.

If 1 GJ = 278 kWh, then

1 kWh = $0.025 CAD or $0.02 USD

Are these calculations correct?  I did not research to confirm the "1 GJ = 278 kWh" part.

McKaig
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 41
Merit: 0


View Profile WWW
October 21, 2017, 05:59:02 PM
 #22

Can you please explain what the idea of a portable mining unit is? Do you follow the seasons and always move to locations where is currently winter? Or is the portability required because when the natural gas resources are dried up you have to go to the next field?

Maybe it's better to select an always cold location with low electricity costs and stay there if you consider all the effort you have to put in to find the right location, rent the premises and check the legal things.

It's appealing to me, for a few different reasons.

- Electricity where I live is expensive.  I can build a 20ft shipping container, and deliver it to wherever electricity is cheaper.  I can also relocate the pod whenever it makes sense to do so, for cheaper electricity.
- Political risk.  If I have my pod hosted in a region, and that government outlaws crypto/mining/whatever, I disconnect, and ship the container to the next location.  I'm back online sooner than tearing down and rebuilding an operation.
- I can remotely monitor and control everything.  Sending your equipment to a hosting site, you can't really control airflow, temperatures, etc.
McKaig
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 41
Merit: 0


View Profile WWW
October 21, 2017, 07:01:02 PM
 #23



Are these calculations correct?  I did not research to confirm the "1 GJ = 278 kWh" part.



This calculation is confirmed.  From my research, 1 m3 of Nat Gas, will produce roughly 10 kWh.

So, I guess this just begs the question, how much will the infrastructure cost to setup a 24/7 Natural Gas generator/microturbine be?
Merptastic
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 66
Merit: 10


View Profile
October 21, 2017, 07:21:14 PM
 #24

Where are you building this?  

We have extremely cheap Natural Gas in my area, and Im starting to get ideas.  I've already designed a 20ft container capable of housing 54 S9's, however would rely on external power source.  Nat Gas is very interesting..  

By cheap, want to give a rough cost per GJ?

Natural gas in my area cost about $4.7 USD per GJ (converts to roughly 278 kWh).

That being said, I have no idea just how efficient these natural gas generators. I've checked Cummins website and it's only specified as "Incredibly Efficient Operation". I'd be nice to have a number.


Our rates are listed in CAD $/m3.  Link to rates:  https://www.uniongas.com/residential/rates/current-rates/rate-m1

How did you determine how many kWh you can generate per GJ?  

I've been looking into Microturbines to see if this method could be viable.  What I do know is that our area has an abundance of Nat Gas, and I have two uncles who work in senior management positions at the utility company, who could help me negotiate larger commercial pricing.

1 Watt = 1 Joule per second
1 Joule = 1 Watt * 1s

1 GJ = 1e+9 Joules
3600 seconds in an hour
1e+9 / 3600 = 277777
= ~278 kWh

Let me know if my math is correct, did this kinda fast.

Also this is just the rate, the price I quoted above does not take into account the service/delivery fee for the gas company.
Upstream
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 40
Merit: 0


View Profile
October 22, 2017, 06:42:43 AM
 #25

We also looked into a microturbine, but the costs (capital and maintenance) did not really compare to the genset I'm using.

I'll have a nice update soon, with more details on our source. I spent 14 hours today commissioning the unit and trouble shooting bugs in our programming. More of that tomorrow. Once I get her purring along I will update with some nice pics.

PS our power cost is $0 at the moment Shocked


Merptastic
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 66
Merit: 10


View Profile
October 22, 2017, 07:30:11 PM
 #26

We also looked into a microturbine, but the costs (capital and maintenance) did not really compare to the genset I'm using.

I'll have a nice update soon, with more details on our source. I spent 14 hours today commissioning the unit and trouble shooting bugs in our programming. More of that tomorrow. Once I get her purring along I will update with some nice pics.

PS our power cost is $0 at the moment Shocked




You're getting natural gas for free?

(Also your picture URL isn't working again)
McKaig
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 41
Merit: 0


View Profile WWW
October 23, 2017, 01:53:17 AM
 #27

We also looked into a microturbine, but the costs (capital and maintenance) did not really compare to the genset I'm using.

I'll have a nice update soon, with more details on our source. I spent 14 hours today commissioning the unit and trouble shooting bugs in our programming. More of that tomorrow. Once I get her purring along I will update with some nice pics.

PS our power cost is $0 at the moment Shocked




What generator did you choose?  If I was in Alberta it would be interesting to visit.
Upstream
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 40
Merit: 0


View Profile
October 23, 2017, 04:16:28 AM
 #28

GM 5.7L V8 running a 66 kW stamford gen
mustangy
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 294
Merit: 108



View Profile
October 23, 2017, 11:27:54 PM
 #29

Someone add gas prices in us and consumption converted  to kWh/ cents please my brain burned at this point to figure it,
here is the link new york state gas prices
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/NG_PRI_SUM_DCU_SNY_M.htm

always have antminers and psu for sale please dm
McKaig
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 41
Merit: 0


View Profile WWW
October 23, 2017, 11:57:03 PM
 #30

Someone add gas prices in us and consumption converted  to kWh/ cents please my brain burned at this point to figure it,
here is the link new york state gas prices
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/NG_PRI_SUM_DCU_SNY_M.htm

Read up a few posts... we did the math.

A big consideration is how efficient the generator or microturbine is.  I kind of stopped looking into it's feasability when the advertised efficiency of the microturbines I was looking at is under 30%..
gbBit
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 88
Merit: 10


View Profile
November 17, 2017, 03:49:45 PM
 #31

Are there any updates on this project?  I would like to see how you're running after your 1st couple of weeks.
darkshad
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 53
Merit: 0


View Profile
November 19, 2017, 01:38:17 AM
 #32

bump.

Would be interested in how much money a natural gas setup would cost along with cost of maintenance for 1 year.  Don't have cheap electricity where I am.  It's around in the 11-15 cents per kwh which is a bit a bit above average - more in the summer.  Know that natural gas is cheaper, but don't know how the cost would compare to electricity, especially factoring in the cost of  a natural gas generator/maintenance.

legendster
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 854
Merit: 575



View Profile
January 18, 2018, 10:44:58 AM
 #33

Yeah this particular genset is a 5.7L GM, pretty common for natural gas.

Cost is a secret Tongue

The cost of the genset is not a secret. They go between $10k to $15k depending on the brand. Installation and electrical labor extra.
Essentially you are tapping into a 'free' energy reserve and I am assuming you do not want to disclose what was your acquisition cost of this gas reserve? Did you factor the cost of acquisition of this gas reserve into the economic statistic of this mine?

Upstream
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 40
Merit: 0


View Profile
January 24, 2018, 05:22:55 PM
 #34

Hey all, I apologize for not updating this recently, we've been extremely busy launching this new company.

I've started a new thread here, now that we are commercializing this product:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2817007.new#new

Locking this thread, thanks for your interest.

-Upstream
Pages: 1 2 [All]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!