Single Phase and Three Phase Power -amp Question

[NotFuzzyWarm]

That rather reminds me... I need to look up and repost the bits I did about safely powering miners with mega PSU's like the 4kw ones from IBM. Boils down to fusing each PCIe power wire triplet so a shorted miner doesn't go volcanic like Tupsu's s7's did...

Folks seem to forget that those suckas would make a great 333 amp arc welder Probably won't save the faulted hash board but should keep things from getting so out of hand!

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[Philopolymath]

Well you all have taught me a valuable lesson..

Indeed I should not have been so quick to boast of the simplicity and ease of electrical usage...In a public forum
Yes it is irresponsible of me to promote a set-up such as mine without listing the risks and responsibilities to diligent maintenance and supervision.
Please excuse my silly defensiveness and pride.


And yes there is huge value in the vast knowledge base of painfully gained wisdom enshrined in NEC Ashrae IEEE ASEE and many such professional orgs.
Especially with respect to PUBLIC safety and commercial operations & liability.


And yes most of these orgs very mission is to educate and advise and mature the knowledge base.
The corruption and bureaucracy and influence of commercial interests often serve to undermine and monopolize these institutions.
No amount of legislation can insulate or mitigate incompetence, negligence, corruption.
Nor can compliance alone prevent disaster..One should not be lulled into false security by compliance.

 
Actually physics and Eeng education and experience is absolutely essential to qualify one to DESIGN SAFE generation distribution & transmission systems.
But I agree that is no guarantee that the same individual is qualified or competent in actually building connecting servicing such.
There is many a twixt between tongue and lip.

And I did speak rather too loosely.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Excused and very well put ^^ A Tip o' the visor for it!

About

The corruption and bureaucracy and influence of commercial interests often serve to undermine and monopolize these institutions.

Ja far too often said outside forces can have significant influence in the policies the various organizations have but sometimes the groups do fight back.

Case in point is the IEEE vs the State of Oregon Licensing Board re: when is an Engineer not an Engineer... In short, earlier this year an EE licensed in the State of Oregon made Public comments about red light cameras timing at intersections in one of the counties. The county did not dispute his claims - they instead reported him to the State Licensing Board. He was sanctioned by the State Board for presenting (a very solid) engineering argument on  the matter however - not being a Civil Engineer specializing in Traffic Safety they felt he violated the States rules of conduct. The IEEE not only as a community but also officially as an organization has overwhelmingly sided with him in fighting the sanctions despite that one could say it cuts into the business of Civil PE's.

[philipma1957]

Well you all have taught me a valuable lesson..

Indeed I should not have been so quick to boast of the simplicity and ease of electrical usage...In a public forum
Yes it is irresponsible of me to promote a set-up such as mine without listing the risks and responsibilities to diligent maintenance and supervision.
Please excuse my silly defensiveness and pride.


And yes there is huge value in the vast knowledge base of painfully gained wisdom enshrined in NEC Ashrae IEEE ASEE and many such professional orgs.
Especially with respect to PUBLIC safety and commercial operations & liability.


And yes most of these orgs very mission is to educate and advise and mature the knowledge base.
The corruption and bureaucracy and influence of commercial interests often serve to undermine and monopolize these institutions.
No amount of legislation can insulate or mitigate incompetence, negligence, corruption.
Nor can compliance alone prevent disaster..One should not be lulled into false security by compliance.

 
Actually physics and Eeng education and experience is absolutely essential to qualify one to DESIGN SAFE generation distribution & transmission systems.
But I agree that is no guarantee that the same individual is qualified or competent in actually building connecting servicing such.
There is many a twixt between tongue and lip.

And I did speak rather too loosely.

Thanks for the apology.

[T-Gee05]

Excused and very well put ^^ A Tip o' the visor for it!

About

The corruption and bureaucracy and influence of commercial interests often serve to undermine and monopolize these institutions.

Ja far too often said outside forces can have significant influence in the policies the various organizations have but sometimes the groups do fight back.

Case in point is the IEEE vs the State of Oregon Licensing Board re: when is an Engineer not an Engineer... In short, earlier this year an EE licensed in the State of Oregon made Public comments about yellow light timing at intersections in one of the counties. The county did not dispute his claims - they instead reported him to the State Licensing Board. He was sanctioned by the State Board for presenting (a very solid) engineering argument on  the matter however - not being a Civil Engineer specializing in Traffic Safety they felt he violated the States rules of conduct. The IEEE not only as a community but also officially as an organization has overwhelmingly sided with him in fighting the sanctions despite that one could say it cuts into the business of Civil PE's.

i believe it all boils down to professionalism. People do it via professional way.. guided by codes, may it be IEEE, ASHRAE, etc... others do it DIY way.. and if something goes wrong.. DIY becomes Destroy It Yourself.

The main concern here is safety. You can do it cut and splice.. yes it will work definitely but there are risk specially when there is no maintenance and regular check up. I've seen wiring with splices. In the long run, due to heat, vibration, moisture, electrical tapes loosens due to heat, splices get loose because of thermal expansion on copper. Also vibration from equipment causes loose wiring. Loose wiring causes failure.

So whatever way how you do it.. BE SAFE!

[NotFuzzyWarm]

others do it DIY way.. and if something goes wrong.. DIY becomes Destroy It Yourself.

Love it! Gotta remember that one...

[QuintLeo]

Ja. The NEC is organized, maintained, and published by the National Fire Protection Association which is a private organization -- not part of the government. I suppose you have a problem with UL, CE and TÜV as well?

As for

They are about maintaining a monopoly and discouraging self education and independence

any part of the NEC you care to look at is freely available for anyone who wants to read it. No joining required. Ja to get the entire NEC ya have to pay for it but so what? Sure smells like easy self-learning of how to do it right and independence to me...

 You CAN get the whole thing free of charge - just download each chapter seperately.
 The "pay for it" entire version is the print version, and the cost is to cover the cost of publication more than anything else.
 You can also generally get access to it enough to read it through most Union Electrician shops if you ask politely, and some LIBRARIES have a copy of it.

[QuintLeo]

That rather reminds me... I need to look up and repost the bits I did about safely powering miners with mega PSU's like the 4kw ones from IBM. Boils down to fusing each PCIe power wire triplet so a shorted miner doesn't go volcanic like Tupsu's s7's did...

Folks seem to forget that those suckas would make a great 333 amp arc welder Probably won't save the faulted hash board but should keep things from getting so out of hand!

 For reference, some smaller arc welders MAX OUT at 250 amps - like the Lincoln model my late father used.

[QuintLeo]

i believe it all boils down to professionalism. People do it via professional way.. guided by codes, may it be IEEE, ASHRAE, etc... others do it DIY way.. and if something goes wrong.. DIY becomes Destroy It Yourself.

The main concern here is safety. You can do it cut and splice.. yes it will work definitely but there are risk specially when there is no maintenance and regular check up. I've seen wiring with splices. In the long run, due to heat, vibration, moisture, electrical tapes loosens due to heat, splices get loose because of thermal expansion on copper. Also vibration from equipment causes loose wiring. Loose wiring causes failure.

 A PROPERLY done splice, with PROPER stress relief, won't get loose in less than decades - but they WILL corrode, causing increased resistance and a tendancy to overheat, in a LOT shorter time a lot of the time even when PROPERLY done.
 Most splices are NOT properly done though - Philopolymath's pictures show absolutely ZERO provision for stress relief, even if the splice itself was well done.

 Electrical tape is not intended for permanent installations because it DOES dry out and crack and get loose fairly quickly - sometimes in less than a year in a hot environment, rarely less than 10 even in an air-conditioned environment on a VERY LOW POWER splice.
 If it's tape on a high-power splice, the issue gets worse quickly as the splice ITSELF generates heat, even when WELL done, due to contact resistance.

 There is a reason insulated crimp connectors exist - though even THOSE can have issues long-term even when installed correctly, they're a LOT better than splices on a high-power or in a long-term installation.

[Philopolymath]

Please don't slander or defame my PERFECTLY SAFE AND LEGAL WIRING SET-UP AND SPLICES..
I have withdrawn recommending my PERFECTLY SAFE AND LEGAL METHOD.
My splices are SAFE AND LEGAL the only thing that prevents them from being perfectly compliant with code is they should be in a box...
However that makes them more difficult to check...which I DO every day.

They are FINE and will last damn near forever...many many years...

SO SAYS MY CERTIFIED INDUSTRIAL HIGH VOLTAGE SPLICE QUALIFIED LINEMAN/ELECTRICIAN
who TEACHES THIS COURSE
http://www.algonquincollege.com/acce/program/powerline-technician/

FYI 220v is considered LOW VOLTAGE.
My BUDDY the CERTIFIED INDUSTRIAL HIGH VOLTAGE SPLICE QUALIFIED LINEMAN/ELECTRICIAN
He took two seconds to look at it and said..you're fine...(Which I already knew) .. and we went for a beer.


And Bottom line is THEY ARE MINE....MY RESPONSIBILITY... MY PROPERTY....MY RIGHT..MY RISK.(Which is ZERO)

[QuintLeo]

Please don't slander or defame my PERFECTLY SAFE AND LEGAL WIRING SET-UP AND SPLICES..

And Bottom line is THEY ARE MINE....MY RESPONSIBILITY... MY PROPERTY....MY RIGHT..MY RISK.(Which is ZERO)

 Your setup is NOT LEGAL per your own description.
 BLATANT VIOLATION of the NEC, which most US jurisdictions have adopted as LAW (sometimes with additional restrictions) - and the very few areas that have not adopted the NEC have adopted an alternate standard that is very similar.

 Putting a splice in a box DOES NOT make it code compliant - there's more to it than that.

 It is very questionable about SAFE as well - still waiting to see where provision for strain relief is at, that IN AND OF ITSELF makes your setup unsafe AND a violation of Code.

 It's not defamation when FACTS are being stated.

 
 I'm not going to go into the "not covered wiring" issue, that's a point I personally think the Code is a bit excessively anal about - but it IS another violation.

 Be happy the guy I learned to be an Electrician under has not seen your setup or heard your "instructor" say is OK - that instructor would be getting DECERTIFIED FOR INCOMPETANCE in no time flat.
 Unless he WATCHED you making the splices, there is no way he has ANY CLUE if they are properly done or if they have any potential to be safe - and a LINEMAN should understand the need for stress relief better than I DO.


 I never said anything about "high voltage" - and by LINEMAN standards I agree that a 220v setup is low power - but by the standards of connections where electrical tape gets used, it's HIGH power.


 If you are in a building/home with a substantial space between it and other structures, then it might be justifiable to claim it's "your risk" - but if you are in space in a "shared" building/condo/townhouse/apartment/whatever or you are in a crowded area with only small spaces between structures, it is NOT just "your risk".

[Philopolymath]

Allright ASSHOLE I tried to be nice but you asked for it.

Please don't slander or defame my PERFECTLY SAFE AND LEGAL WIRING SET-UP AND SPLICES..

And Bottom line is THEY ARE MINE....MY RESPONSIBILITY... MY PROPERTY....MY RIGHT..MY RISK.(Which is ZERO)

 Your setup is NOT LEGAL per your own description.
REALLY? WHAT IS MY EXACT SET-UP AND EXACTLY WHICH LAW OF WHICH JURISDICTION DOES IT VIOLATE?
 
 BLATANT VIOLATION of the NEC, which most US jurisdictions have adopted as LAW (sometimes with additional restrictions) - and the very few areas that have not adopted the NEC have adopted an alternate standard that is very similar.

AGAIN WHERE AM I AND EXACTLY WHICH NEC VIOLATION ARE YOU CHARGING ME WITH..YOU ARE THE AUTHORIZED ENFORCEMENT OFFICER FOR MY LOCATION RIGHT?

 Putting a splice in a box DOES NOT make it code compliant - there's more to it than that. 
CORRECT YOU SHOULD PUT THE BOX IN A PAIL WITH DIRTY OILY RAGS AND WATER AND DRILL HOLES IN IT TOO FOR VENTILATION ADD SOME BLEACH AND GASOLINE STEEL WOOL AND SHARP OBJECTS
REALLY? HOW THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW WHAT CODE IF ANY APPLIES TO ME? AGAIN BE SPECIFIC EXACTLY WHICH.

 It is very questionable about SAFE as well - still waiting to see where provision for strain relief is at, that IN AND OF ITSELF makes your setup unsafe AND a violation of Code.
NOW YOU'RE ALSO A FULLY QUALIFIED ELECTRICAL SAFETY INSPECTOR.. GREAT SHOW ME YOUR ID

 It's not defamation when FACTS are being stated.
IT'S DEFAMATION WHEN YOU TALK OUT OF YOUR ASS 

 
 I'm not going to go into the "not covered wiring" issue, that's a point I personally think the Code is a bit excessively anal about - but it IS another violation. WHY NOT? YOU ARE ALREADY AN ASSHOLE SWIMMING DEEP IN BULLSHIT...WHICH CODE? WHAT PAGE NUMBER? APPLIES TO WHICH COUNTRY COUNTY STREET EXACTLY?

 Be happy the guy I learned to be an Electrician under has not seen your setup or heard your "instructor" say is OK - that instructor would be getting DECERTIFIED FOR INCOMPETANCE in no time flat.
WEALLY? MWAYBE FIRS WERN OW TO PELL INCOMPETENCE BUCKWHEAT?
 Unless he WATCHED you making the splices, there is no way he has ANY CLUE if they are properly done or if they have any potential to be safe - and a LINEMAN should understand the need for stress relief better than I DO.


 I never said anything about "high voltage" - and by LINEMAN standards I agree that a 220v setup is low power - but by the standards of connections where electrical tape gets used, it's HIGH power.

IF MY AUNT HAD BALLS SHE WOULD BE MY UNCLE...IF YOU DON'T KNOW THEN STFU And MYOB
 If you are in a building/home with a substantial space between it and other structures, then it might be justifiable to claim it's "your risk" - but if you are in space in a "shared" building/condo/townhouse/apartment/whatever or you are in a crowded area with only small spaces between structures, it is NOT just "your risk".