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Author Topic: [UPDATE: 2015-05-10] Bitcoin Core soft-fork "No Forced TX Fee" v0.10.1 available  (Read 54656 times)
ShadowOfHarbringer
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May 22, 2013, 09:38:06 PM
 #161

Each lawyer will tell you:
All these ARBITRARY and UNFORESEEABLE enforced transaction fees are ILLEGAL.

It cannot be down to miners whim, what at all and even HOW MUCH they want to claim.
A claim of fees must at least clearly be declared before a transaction is definitely mandated by users.

Otherwise there is no agreement.
No agreement, no fee.
And no other chicanry like delays or denial of service (seems also applied - illegally).

Wut ?

Seriously, this topic is not related to what you said and this is not a place for such discussion. Please start a new topic and stop derailing this one.

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May 22, 2013, 11:21:15 PM
 #162

Each lawyer will tell you:
All these ARBITRARY and UNFORESEEABLE enforced transaction fees are ILLEGAL.

It cannot be down to miners whim, what at all and even HOW MUCH they want to claim.
A claim of fees must at least clearly be declared before a transaction is definitely mandated by users.

Otherwise there is no agreement.
No agreement, no fee.
And no other chicanry like delays or denial of service (seems also applied - illegally).

Miners have the right to choose whom they provide service to or not.

ShadowOfHarbringer
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May 23, 2013, 07:08:44 AM
 #163

Each lawyer will tell you:
All these ARBITRARY and UNFORESEEABLE enforced transaction fees are ILLEGAL.

It cannot be down to miners whim, what at all and even HOW MUCH they want to claim.
A claim of fees must at least clearly be declared before a transaction is definitely mandated by users.

Otherwise there is no agreement.
No agreement, no fee.
And no other chicanry like delays or denial of service (seems also applied - illegally).

Miners have the right to choose whom they provide service to or not.



Start a new topic. This is not the right place.

LvM
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May 23, 2013, 12:04:40 PM
 #164

Each lawyer will tell you:
All these ARBITRARY and UNFORESEEABLE enforced transaction fees are ILLEGAL.

It cannot be down to miners whim, what at all and even HOW MUCH they want to claim.
A claim of fees must at least clearly be declared before a transaction is definitely mandated by users.

Otherwise there is no agreement.
No agreement, no fee.
And no other chicanry like delays or denial of service (seems also applied - illegally).

Miners have the right to choose whom they provide service to or not.

Start a new topic. This is not the right place.

Huh
The law could not be closer related to what you call/ed "No Forced TX fee", "Freedom", "Getting robbed by miners".

BTC violates GAAP, result a MESS  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=211835.0
Anforderungen an eine PROFESSIONELLE BTC-Anwendung https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=189669
BANKGEHEIMNIS mit BTC gleich NULL!? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=188383 Antwort: Ja, wenn man nicht höllisch aufpaßt.
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May 23, 2013, 12:06:30 PM
 #165


Example
in Block 237507 of what they seem trying to avoid by (illegal) fees.   

FROM
  1GfV8CBz6rhKAzPRVt4jYiJLdghmvWptfR: 0.03297843 BTC
TO   
    141QGt4Jdv6E9LfLZiit7apEMH4oMZyPhr: 0.00001284
    1FKa4kXa9Md1aHhdv69sr4kxax5Lq4h5zd: 0.0000056
    1BigfdEypPZhwJUNzczxpxnQo9zYD6csx9: 0.00001503
    1Fr615TbhJkm7XyUstLZsCw6SvvVnTR54t: 0.00002004
    1FjtGtUKthUeCQCiGk6Lb53oLiQ5TVNEAt: 0.00000084
    1NpFcfEASDb37NKHKVq7BgcLQ4zEfRg5Hw: 0.00002
    19sZFk65dcx5qromyMf2kiB6ZWiY8u4Fad: 0.00000933
    1KnkAj8ZdfwfzbGXBCE6rXeXfPo2e7GkxD: 0.00001244
    1Mz8YUzuQxmHsfzBTbuJWa94d9GgpU2TxZ: 0.000008
    189NhDqUik7xZjmAsyQu6oKenkiZdW8Taj: 0.0000128
    18ZabaHrk9vN4PmeeHdv6aAwiGRQJBe2r5: 0.00000844
    1J3fJNEV44KEsNUAdiezgf8j4JMsjreMSL: 0.0000063
    18nCk22gaDdoYMLSQeWniJzKSjXY9HyGpt: 0.000004
    1BX99EyvTvuppuzCGNbazUSaZY2SseyW6g: 0.0000168
    16GP7fynpDwZ5oJzxoaBgSznPXqffNpNdt: 0.00007593
    12RcTF6ctVP5X8eyUgFjYT2jCH9x5tctB8: 0.000016
    19hQVhYWrfEA556SwUCusPniRbmVP1eGFk: 0.000024
    12u5yY61jKB69kPFNJ5X2oteToqvRmBPac: 0.03084699
    1B3n6VrdEL6wAkazQiJyQURr9MmghBxUEy: 0.00000696
    1LYruivHBrytSpTCc5D5yNyCnjbu44ZTRf: 0.00000928
    1JUHUfAHp5MC4j5AYTDGKqjCgx8aKHwit7: 0.0000124
    17y73HGotoaTqkHTGzPz3FLjxKNqhf4BXH: 0.0000052
    1KpwLakFPPqWWdzZzCBMnFsMvJYRMrNhYr: 0.00001233
    186S2y3KohhntZ3haQoJSFN7Sf9Z5tCkYx: 0.00002
    13PuBaRxigpaGukx7v13Bdv7Vaq8gSiEvn: 0.000012
    1GgMNzdtdVUUdfzL9PyDDudcKTYQaUeS9F: 0.000016
    16JKP7btSgSuUH5tF79AJbBYdcnrtDyNxs: 0.000027
    1FfpPLJjcvqnf4WLsrQCKifyn45bbvmp9j: 0.000008
    1NdkCfxSyHdiVumZGEy28axi2GiWHfuUf4: 0.00000084
    1CM1UJ3Esm4ahkZrLk8fFQZ9wkQSeoCaef: 0.0000044
    1PFeyR5Xu2y9XwFME6437SkfrW9G3RNrkk: 0.00002
    1G74ncDur2aXvdbg99fhKte7BfP9fGeqLJ: 0.0000004
    1DeP5PdKuqv7SsFSezsJtfzRJ2YfFW5zFY: 0.000004
    1DZECBjBY3kPV4PrEzWn5DhExSr21ixT7E: 0.00002
    17nzCMQUsC6sWGDrWNEpiCjeKb33pFEZ5L: 0.0000044
    1JhBeo6ndvHJocEaTy4Ejco358xg9THaQD: 0.0000039
    1AzUHRmX3yLt3Zw3BSSXtQ5yoo1dHDHTGv: 0.0000052
    1MxMu8DoZeVttGBAX4Cg66oU6U4KiaFtVV: 0.0000069
    1CxyTQtVomgAFput7WRQ6Hz2m9AeBz71zD: 0.0000092
    1KT9EbpRYkKs9mxDuq1SQEB6BdoagnkjSp: 0.000016
    15VMbYAbWVYr3RDyX8rVUUjY21ByoL8zqt: 0.000009
    17FBHiYCHzEpCEE8spTbiz4rBAXa8ApNqo: 0.000012
    1NhDUhtUWiKSgFaYNg4XHfnoB36MyPC5gA: 0.000024
    1Ci375gcXKHSQv1gJ4LoeY6g6LzKZvHPXQ: 0.0000006
    1EM8pxA3SjRivyG8JwS11kPhvECtbPxgJU: 0.0000008
    1A4tii76NcMFLPdqNNqMgb8hN9U3QjMu1m: 0.00000003
    15yEbm1Q2jfNJHv1ss2AJjZVZbohpp4ron: 0.00000004
    1L76YBttyLiYPQdTFoASh3MfD2iXvatmLn: 0.000016
    1APYYHeQjCNMtPnPyYAEW7f6BxZCvkGfcs: 0.000004
    1FdcBichMwFx6C3zjWqgC96j6FTeFocj9L: 0.0000123
    1KdqLDhXP7zAS9VMYXicy18z8Mkv8Hddsr: 0.0000164
    1aDKbe5jqCqSdCS2AEstqVUcMLxUjnKyV: 0.0000004
    19H8pB4BFf9SM1ora1warRskDtuyQm6NZf: 0.000006
    18ZWZXUvykZJY8t8gdAqYjvLLqYvNvt5f3: 0.000008
    1HFFFW7LWp9io3vd8BeBbK3zi7vVtiMBNG: 0.00000003
    1LmKT6jpszN8UMbbZYeQkZnqGdmTm2VdrV: 0.00000004
    1FMaqG2VSvzeSgxaLPbP3mwUdPch6UgivU: 0.000004
    13JnZ4mdzUhsSLuYn6HaPzzADUVWQhQS5w: 0.000003
    1BMhZFKJ2r1kp3GLNn8WZ6YougYrRfCziE: 0.000004
    15puRzRCezrM8PcJppiNGyNdyjBXCfgMtw: 0.000004
    19xVTYRoShy1KNPr1EmHHJtCZ4zF8bFwdo: 0.000003
    1FfuFv2X8pUxXmxBZXGN27m38FBKET2f4a: 0.000004
    1FfT8vQDCo6sA2uwh3mn8EjkyVRgy1ZARc: 0.000004
    19pTAoU9EG93PA9hw6CQjhg4iV5GvTUBFu: 0.000003

64 transactions! Overall sum just 0.03297843 BTC!
SIZE 2.333 kB for almost nothing !!
Fee 0.0015   
http://blockexplorer.com/b/237507
http://blockexplorer.com/address/1GfV8CBz6rhKAzPRVt4jYiJLdghmvWptfR

A system taken seriously should not allow (or enforce??) such obvious nonsens at all.

BTC violates GAAP, result a MESS  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=211835.0
Anforderungen an eine PROFESSIONELLE BTC-Anwendung https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=189669
BANKGEHEIMNIS mit BTC gleich NULL!? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=188383 Antwort: Ja, wenn man nicht höllisch aufpaßt.
ShadowOfHarbringer
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May 23, 2013, 02:57:54 PM
 #166


64 transactions! Overall sum just 0.03297843 BTC!
SIZE 2.333 kB for almost nothing !!
Fee 0.0015   
http://blockexplorer.com/b/237507
http://blockexplorer.com/address/1GfV8CBz6rhKAzPRVt4jYiJLdghmvWptfR

A system taken seriously should not allow (or enforce??) such obvious nonsens at all.


And how is that related to this topic ?
If you haven't noticed, my fork takes LESS fees than the standard client.

Please discuss this in a thread dedicated to the STANDARD Bitcoin-Qt client, not NFTF client.

This topic is for discussion & support for the NFTF client fork.

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May 25, 2013, 12:00:05 AM
 #167

Would be much easier to everyone, if anybody will provide compiled binaries for Windows...  Grin
Would be much easier to everyone, if anybody will provide compiled binaries for Windows...  Grin

Well that surely won't be me. I don't use "legacy technologies from twentieth century" as somebody stated on this forums.
My attempt at a Windows build:
https://mega.co.nz/#!PoY2WRra!EdDJ-Sx50lnlyMsKcp95dD7xHPgQW5pBys2jG30v29o
Code:
641099e1ea931f05622fad52a4e9196d5ae05b0f28311fc1dbda1093a67b1d68  bitcoin-nftf-v0.8.1-win32-setup.exe
6333f1e71e029928695adfe8b803d17765fc6df68b0e9b5ca5e4671437b60b75  bitcoin-nftf-v0.8.1-win32.zip

This was built using Gitian with sipa's build script on a VMWare Ubuntu VM, running on a Windows 7 host machine. Audits are always welcome.

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

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starik69
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May 25, 2013, 08:48:56 AM
 #168

This was built using Gitian with sipa's build script
Can you provide more details? I tryed to compile on a VMWare Ubuntu myself, but got errors Sad

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ShadowOfHarbringer
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May 25, 2013, 10:24:27 AM
 #169

This was built using Gitian with sipa's build script
Can you provide more details? I tryed to compile on a VMWare Ubuntu myself, but got errors Sad

This fork builds exactly the same way the normal client does. So just follow instructions on building the mainline client.
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/build-msw.md

grue
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May 25, 2013, 04:47:12 PM
 #170

This was built using Gitian with sipa's build script
Can you provide more details? I tryed to compile on a VMWare Ubuntu myself, but got errors Sad
sipa's build script: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/builds/bitcoin-build.sh.txt

1. install: https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder (install dependencies, then "git clone git://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder.git")
2. git clone git://ShadowOfHarbringer/bitcoin-nftf/
3. rename folder "bitcoin-nftf" to "bitcoin-build"
4. follow the instructions to set up the gitian virtual machine
5. place dependencies in the input folder of gitian
5. ./bitcoin-build.sh nftf-v0.8.1

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

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likl3sfuhjh
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June 13, 2013, 02:38:35 AM
 #171

How would this work with a sendmany rpc json transaction?

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ShadowOfHarbringer
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June 13, 2013, 07:06:54 AM
 #172

How would this work with a sendmany rpc json transaction?
It will work with everything that the mainline client works with.

Well, except paying more fees of course.

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June 19, 2013, 03:03:38 AM
 #173

How would this work with a sendmany rpc json transaction?
It will work with everything that the mainline client works with.

Well, except paying more fees of course.


Well it dosnt work when i use the debug console. It still is sending the default .0005 fee per 1kb.
Using a sendmany transaction.

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June 19, 2013, 03:56:51 AM
 #174

Each lawyer will tell you:
All these ARBITRARY and UNFORESEEABLE enforced transaction fees are ILLEGAL.

It cannot be down to miners whim, what at all and even HOW MUCH they want to claim.
A claim of fees must at least clearly be declared before a transaction is definitely mandated by users.

Otherwise there is no agreement.
No agreement, no fee.
And no other chicanry like delays or denial of service (seems also applied - illegally).

Miners have the right to choose whom they provide service to or not.

does this have atopic location at all? I want to see comments on this style of thread

ShadowOfHarbringer
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June 19, 2013, 08:05:31 AM
 #175

Each lawyer will tell you:
All these ARBITRARY and UNFORESEEABLE enforced transaction fees are ILLEGAL.

It cannot be down to miners whim, what at all and even HOW MUCH they want to claim.
A claim of fees must at least clearly be declared before a transaction is definitely mandated by users.

Otherwise there is no agreement.
No agreement, no fee.
And no other chicanry like delays or denial of service (seems also applied - illegally).

Miners have the right to choose whom they provide service to or not.

does this have atopic location at all? I want to see comments on this style of thread

Wut ?

Also, please stop derailing this thread.

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June 23, 2013, 01:53:20 PM
 #176

2013-06-23 Update:

NFTF - version 0.8.2 released.

Fresh tag - nftf-v0.8.2 is avaiable for download.
https://github.com/ShadowOfHarbringer/bitcoin-nftf/tags



PLEASE NOTE THAT UNTIL MAX BLOCK SIZE PROBLEM HAS BEEN SOLVED BY DEVELOPERS, SOME FREE (WITHOUT FEE) TRANSACTIONS CREATED BY THIS FORK MAY CONFIRM VERY SLOWLY OR NEVER.
PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING BEFORE USING THIS FORK.




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June 25, 2013, 01:26:32 AM
 #177

Isn't this a configurable option in 0.8.2?  Or do we need your client for your forked chain?

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June 25, 2013, 08:12:00 AM
 #178

Isn't this a configurable option in 0.8.2?  Or do we need your client for your forked chain?
Nope.

- Chain is not forked
- Transaction relaying is unaffected
- Everything except amount of fees when sending **your own money** is unaffected

This is a minor patch, nearly identical to official client.
You can simply send money paying less fees, but with higher risk of transaction not making it into a block (fees might not be enough).

I created this fork, because i didn't like the decision of the devs to raise fees some time ago without giving user any choice (a configuration option for God's sake !).


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August 19, 2013, 08:54:41 PM
 #179

2013-08-19 Update:

NFTF - version 0.8.3 released.

Fresh tag - nftf-v0.8.3 is avaiable for download.
https://github.com/ShadowOfHarbringer/bitcoin-nftf/tags

MASTER branch was also updated to latest Bitcoin version:
https://github.com/ShadowOfHarbringer/bitcoin-nftf

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October 02, 2013, 01:26:43 PM
 #180

any update to 0.8.5?

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