Unspent outputs and funds missing from Jaxx wallet while pairing Android and PC

[93Vette]

Newbie here.

Short story: 

I open a Jaxx wallet on my Android and make several deposits totaling just over 1 BTC (not chump change for me).
Then I install the PC version and the Android balance doesn't show there.  I pair the wallets per their instructions and voila - the Android balance disappears.
I of course wrote down the seed key and even dated when I did that, which coincides with my initial deposit.
Jaxx has been very little help.

Aside from whatever went wrong here, I have a question about unspent outputs.

When I go to BlockCypher and plug in the addresses for those deposits to my Jaxx Android wallet (from Coinbase and ABRA) the "total received" is the same amount as the "final balance."

My understanding of these unspent outputs is that they are generally a fractional remainder of a bigger amount/transaction - that is, the final balance would NOT be the same as the amount received.

It also appears that you can request the amount shown in the final balance?

My question is whether or not I can retrieve my missing BTC through this process, or, if not, does it give me any actionable information to present to Jaxx?             

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[achow101]

I open a Jaxx wallet on my Android and make several deposits totaling just over 1 BTC (not chump change for me).
Then I install the PC version and the Android balance doesn't show there.  I pair the wallets per their instructions and voila - the Android balance disappears.

You paired in the wrong direction. If you scanned a QR code or entered the backup phrase from your computer onto your phone, then that is wrong. You should have entered a backup phrase from your phone onto your computer.

My understanding of these unspent outputs is that they are generally a fractional remainder of a bigger amount/transaction - that is, the final balance would NOT be the same as the amount received.

No, that is not how unspent outputs works. The final balance would only not be the same as amount received if you have spent any Bitcoin.

[93Vette]

I open a Jaxx wallet on my Android and make several deposits totaling just over 1 BTC (not chump change for me).
Then I install the PC version and the Android balance doesn't show there.  I pair the wallets per their instructions and voila - the Android balance disappears.

You paired in the wrong direction. If you scanned a QR code or entered the backup phrase from your computer onto your phone, then that is wrong. You should have entered a backup phrase from your phone onto your computer.

My understanding of these unspent outputs is that they are generally a fractional remainder of a bigger amount/transaction - that is, the final balance would NOT be the same as the amount received.

No, that is not how unspent outputs works. The final balance would only not be the same as amount received if you have spent any Bitcoin.

"You paired in the wrong direction. If you scanned a QR code or entered the backup phrase from your computer onto your phone, then that is wrong. You should have entered a backup phrase from your phone onto your computer."  I only have the one backup phrase.  That was from when I opened the Android app and that's the phrase I used on my computer.  I'm 100% certain of that.  I mean, does everyone believe that these wallets work perfectly all of the time?  One seems to have zero recourse.  At least with a bank I would. 

"No, that is not how unspent outputs works. The final balance would only not be the same as amount received if you have spent any Bitcoin."

Exactly.  I didn't spend the BTC, I deposited it.  Now it seems that all I can do is look at it from afar, knowing it should be mine but not being able to do a damn thing about it.  This isn't progress, it's a giant leap backwards.     

So it sounds like I'm basically screwed. 
     

[achow101]

I only have the one backup phrase.  That was from when I opened the Android app and that's the phrase I used on my computer.  I'm 100% certain of that.  I mean, does everyone believe that these wallets work perfectly all of the time?  One seems to have zero recourse.  At least with a bank I would.    

You have the backup phrase. Restore your wallet from that backup phrase. That's what the backup phrase is for.

Just because you don't know what you are doing does not mean that all is lost. Just because you don't know what you are doing does not mean that no one else knows what they are doing.

[93Vette]

I only have the one backup phrase.  That was from when I opened the Android app and that's the phrase I used on my computer.  I'm 100% certain of that.  I mean, does everyone believe that these wallets work perfectly all of the time?  One seems to have zero recourse.  At least with a bank I would.    

You have the backup phrase. Restore your wallet from that backup phrase. That's what the backup phrase is for.

I understand that.  That's the first thing I did.  No luck.  Here's the order of events

1) Install Jaxx wallet on Android phone
2) Write down backup phrase
3) Fund wallet over the course of several weeks - I can see those transactions from Coinbase and ABRA to Jaxx by plugging them into [Suspicious link removed]
4) Install pc version of Jaax wallet.  But this did not show my Android wallet balance.
5) Follow Jaxx instructions to pair/sync wallets.
6) Balance from Android disappears.
7) Contact Jaxx customer service.  They had me a) update app to latest version (no help) and b) uninstall app and re-install with backup phrase (no help)      

Just because you don't know what you are doing does not mean that all is lost. Just because you don't know what you are doing does not mean that no one else knows what they are doing.

I want to believe with all my heart that all is not lost.  I know others know far more than I do about this.  That's why I'm here!  

[HCP]

4) Install pc version of Jaax wallet.  But this did not show my Android wallet balance

When you did this, did you set the PC version as a new wallet or did you "restore" using your original backup seed?

Does "did not show my Android wallet balance" mean the balance on the PC was initially zero?

5) Follow Jaxx instructions to pair/sync wallets.
6) Balance from Android disappears.

It is this order of events that leads to me believe, as I told you earlier, that you have put an incorrect seed into the android device... "Pairing" should not have altered anything on the Android device unless you did it the wrong way round and changed the seed being used on the Android device, instead of putting the Android seed into the PC wallet. As per this warning within the Jaxx wallet:




You say you can see the transactions from Coinbase to your wallet... And the addresses in those transactions still contain coins.

Can you see those addresses in your Jaxx wallet history at all?

If you put your seed into https://iancoleman.github.io/bip39/ (recommended to download a copy of the page and use "offline") and select BIP44... You will get some addresses generated at the bottom of the page, are the addresses that you sent coins to from the Coinbase/ABRA transactions shown there?

If not, then it is highly likely you have got the "wrong" seed...

[93Vette]

4) Install pc version of Jaax wallet.  But this did not show my Android wallet balance

When you did this, did you set the PC version as a new wallet or did you "restore" using your original backup seed?  Pair/Restore.

Does "did not show my Android wallet balance" mean the balance on the PC was initially zero?  Yes, however before I did the pair/restore I transferred a small amount to the PC wallet that came in just fine.

5) Follow Jaxx instructions to pair/sync wallets.
6) Balance from Android disappears.

It is this order of events that leads to me believe, as I told you earlier, that you have put an incorrect seed into the android device... "Pairing" should not have altered anything on the Android device unless you did it the wrong way round and changed the seed being used on the Android device, instead of putting the Android seed into the PC wallet. As per this warning within the Jaxx wallet:

https://i.imgur.com/hxZASLQ.jpg

HCP, I downloaded the form to use it offline as you suggested.  However, my wife and i struggled with figuring it out for almost an hour - it was laughable.  We finally gave up.  do we enter anything at all in the area that says "Mnemonic"?  The BIP39 line is grayed out.  In the fields for Derivation Path, only the lines available to enter data are for "Account" and "External/Internal".  All other lines are grayed out.       


You say you can see the transactions from Coinbase to your wallet... And the addresses in those transactions still contain coins.

Can you see those addresses in your Jaxx wallet history at all?

If you put your seed into https://iancoleman.github.io/bip39/ (recommended to download a copy of the page and use "offline") and select BIP44... You will get some addresses generated at the bottom of the page, are the addresses that you sent coins to from the Coinbase/ABRA transactions shown there?

If not, then it is highly likely you have got the "wrong" seed...

Here's a stupid question - is it correct that the smartphone and pc versions of a wallet like Jaxx will have different 12 word backup phrases?  If so, then the most obvious answer is that I only have the PC backup phrase.  The odd thing about that is that when I wrote this down it was at a point in time before I had yet to open the pc version according to my notes.  Of course, it appears that my notes must be incorrect.  If that's the way it went down then is all lost regarding the Android funds?

That's for all your help HCP - I really appreciate it.       

Let's say

[HCP]

Does "did not show my Android wallet balance" mean the balance on the PC was initially zero? 

Yes, however before I did the pair/restore I transferred a small amount to the PC wallet that came in just fine.

Then this would tend to confirm my suspicions... You have created a new seed on the PC wallet... Sent a small amount to it... And then restored THIS wallet onto your Android, removing the original Android wallet.

HCP, I downloaded the form to use it offline as you suggested.  However, my wife and i struggled with figuring it out for almost an hour - it was laughable.  We finally gave up.  do we enter anything at all in the area that says "Mnemonic"?  The BIP39 line is grayed out.  In the fields for Derivation Path, only the lines available to enter data are for "Account" and "External/Internal".  All other lines are grayed out.       

Apologies for not being more specific. Your 12 word seed backup phrase goes into the "BIP39 mnemonic" box, you shouldn't really need to do anything else except make sure the BIP44 tab is selected under "Derivation Path". Everything else should be OK on default settings... The "BIP32 Derivation Path" should show as m/44'/0'/0'/0

Here's a stupid question - is it correct that the smartphone and pc versions of a wallet like Jaxx will have different 12 word backup phrases?  If so, then the most obvious answer is that I only have the PC backup phrase.  The odd thing about that is that when I wrote this down it was at a point in time before I had yet to open the pc version according to my notes.  Of course, it appears that my notes must be incorrect.  If that's the way it went down then is all lost regarding the Android funds?

That's for all your help HCP - I really appreciate it.       

Firstly, you're welcome...

Secondly, yes... As I've said, whenever you first install Jaxx on any given device... Unless you specifically choose "Pair/Restore" it will generate a unique wallet and backup phrase.

As far as I can tell from the information you have provided, you have somehow put the PC phrase onto the Android... And you don't have the Android phrase written down

I would still recommend that you try using the offline webpage with you backup phrase and see if you can see the addresses from the Coinbase transactions. It might still just be a case of Jaxx failing to find your transactions.

Also, if you haven't already, hunt through all your notes looking for another backup phrase that you might have simply misplaced.

Best of luck.