Attention BMF/NYAN/TU.SILVER investors

[Deprived]

You care because if BMF lists it will compete with your funds and you know that I am a far, far better asset manager than you.

Comedy gold.

BMF - down to 5% or less of initial selling price with maybe 20% (could be a bit more or a lot less) of original selling price ever dividended out.
LTC-ATF - at 500% of original selling price with another 250% dividended out.

How could I (or anyone else) possibly conclude you were a better asset manager?

The reason I don't want you to list is simple - I don't want investors' money sucked into a financial blackhole managed by you.  I want it circulating in viable assets that I can trade.

The reason why I waste so much of my time actually posting about it IS more personal - but in no way detracts from the truth of what I post or yout unfitness to manage other people's cash.

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[usagi]

The proceeds from the sale of shares went directly to the shareholders, for example. This is published and on the forums for months. It was linked to you several times. You were the one, in fact, who suggested the liquidation auction -- which I ran despite a shareholder vote saying my shareholders did not want me to do this. It severely crippled BMF, but I did it because you said you would promise to help me get listed. A promise you broke almost immediately when you resumed attacking me and claiming there was no list of assets.

Usagi deliberately misunderstanding what was said - as usual.

I referred to the holdings of NYAN - NOT nyan.a/b/c.  The auction has nothing to do with NYAN (that's the parent company) - the assets of that had long since vanished (before GLBSE even went down).

A whole paragraph arguing against a claim I didn't even make.  YOU may want to conveniently forget that NYAN had assets that were stripped off removing cover from nyan.a/b, but it doesn't alter the fact that it happened.

NYAN only held NYAN.A and some BMF when GLBSE closed. Relaunching BMF is really the first step in paying people back. Remember -- you don't know what you are talking about, the books were closed because people like you are not allowed to know what we're doing.

[Deprived]

The proceeds from the sale of shares went directly to the shareholders, for example. This is published and on the forums for months. It was linked to you several times. You were the one, in fact, who suggested the liquidation auction -- which I ran despite a shareholder vote saying my shareholders did not want me to do this. It severely crippled BMF, but I did it because you said you would promise to help me get listed. A promise you broke almost immediately when you resumed attacking me and claiming there was no list of assets.

Usagi deliberately misunderstanding what was said - as usual.

I referred to the holdings of NYAN - NOT nyan.a/b/c.  The auction has nothing to do with NYAN (that's the parent company) - the assets of that had long since vanished (before GLBSE even went down).

A whole paragraph arguing against a claim I didn't even make.  YOU may want to conveniently forget that NYAN had assets that were stripped off removing cover from nyan.a/b, but it doesn't alter the fact that it happened.

NYAN only held NYAN.A and some BMF when GLBSE closed. Relaunching BMF is really the first step in paying people back. Remember -- you don't know what you are talking about, the books were closed because people like you are not allowed to know what we're doing.

Reading comprehension really isn't your strong point is it?

I'd already stated I was talking about the assets that vanished BEFORE GLBSE closed down.  That's assets that WERE disclosed to the public - back before you decided it wasn't clever to leave the proof of your various trickery public.

Anyway, back to deleting your posts - as it's obvious you'll just keep lieing and changing the subject.  You can, of course, respond in your own thread : e.g. with a denial that Nyan used to hold a lot more assets - but that would be rather dumb of you when the post where you said you were getting rid of them may be one of the ones undeleted.

EDIT: and it would be far quicker to pay people back by just selling the assets and making a final dividend payment.  That way you don't have to wait until you find suckers to buy the shares via the market.

[usagi]

Perhaps the best and fairest way to look at how good his reporting is would be to look at his active, running asset - TU.SILVER.  So let's have a look at its NAV/U,

Hmm, I can't.  To look at the accounts I'd have to spend $90 buying a share then give it to him.  Luckily he has weekly reports, so I don't need to see the accounts - and can just look at the NAV/U there.

Hmm, that's strange.  There's no mention in of it in the last few.  In fact the last mention of any NAV/U or similar is in the monthly report at the end of May where it says :

"Internal Calculation of 0.04348010"

Guess it hasn't changed much and that's still around what the NAV/U is.  And there's another clue as to where the price lies in a later post of his:

An example of an un-reasonable price (imo) is 0.033 and 0.099. The people with those orders up should be unlikely to get them filled!

His advice to investors, BTW, is just to guess what the price is - put up an order and if he likes it he'll fill it.  

So over we trot to the Bitfunder order book to pick up some of the shares - we know there should be some for sale as he just got some new silver in.

Hmm - fuck all volume on the Bid side (he long since gave up the pretence that he was going to provide visible liquidity) and on the Ask side:

21    ฿0.09090    
45    ฿0.0910    
700    ฿0.10      

Nothing under .09.  And we know the 700 order is his (check asset lists and noone other that him holds anything near that number) - at a price he himself said was unreasonable not that long ago (and with no news in between to suggest it had suddenly become reasonable).

What's happening here is actually classic usagi.  He tries to sell his shares at well above their value - making sure to either give no information or wrong information to investors.  If some sucker actually buys at that price, that then increases NAV/U and he can either pay it out as dividends or brag about how his trading is making profit.  When all he's really doing is running a near ponzi - where the profit for existing shares come from new sales.

1. I am not obliged to buy or sell shares at any price, especially a price 2x NAV. The FACT that the market participants do not want to sell shares under 0.09 should be a big clue to you. There's no point in putting up an order for x amount of shares because NO ONE is selling. They won't even sell into the .06s.

2. Here's another clue, doofus:

2013-06-25 05:21:40    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09090000/ea    ฿0.09090000    
2013-06-24 19:03:56    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09090000/ea    ฿0.09090000    
2013-06-23 22:10:04    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   5     ฿0.09000000/ea    ฿0.45000000    
2013-06-23 08:08:02    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09090000/ea    ฿0.09090000    
2013-06-23 06:51:00    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07000000/ea    ฿0.07000000    
2013-06-23 06:50:52    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07100000/ea    ฿0.07100000    
2013-06-23 06:50:44    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07200000/ea    ฿0.07200000    
2013-06-23 06:50:37    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07300000/ea    ฿0.07300000    
2013-06-23 06:50:30    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07400000/ea    ฿0.07400000    
2013-06-23 06:50:24    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07500000/ea    ฿0.07500000    
2013-06-23 03:20:55    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09100000/ea    ฿0.09100000    
2013-06-20 12:59:17    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07000000/ea    ฿0.07000000    
2013-06-20 12:59:00    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07600000/ea    ฿0.07600000    
2013-06-20 09:07:12    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09100000/ea    ฿0.09100000    
2013-06-19 16:58:39    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09100000/ea    ฿0.09100000    
2013-06-18 08:23:39    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09000000/ea    ฿0.09000000    
2013-06-18 08:23:38    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.08100000/ea    ฿0.08100000    
2013-06-17 11:22:09    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09000000/ea    ฿0.09000000    
2013-06-15 22:20:33    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09099900/ea    ฿0.09099900    
2013-06-15 04:01:14    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09100000/ea    ฿0.09100000    
2013-06-14 00:52:59    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.06100000/ea    ฿0.06100000    
2013-06-14 00:52:53    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.06200000/ea    ฿0.06200000    
2013-06-14 00:52:45    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.06300000/ea    ฿0.06300000    
2013-06-14 00:52:40    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.06400000/ea    ฿0.06400000    
2013-06-14 00:52:35    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.06500000/ea    ฿0.06500000    
2013-06-14 00:52:23    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.06600000/ea    ฿0.06600000    
2013-06-13 22:02:31    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09100000/ea    ฿0.09100000    
2013-06-13 00:55:50    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09100000/ea    ฿0.09100000    
2013-06-12 05:48:21    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09100000/ea    ฿0.09100000    
2013-06-11 08:02:26    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   2     ฿0.09100000/ea    ฿0.18200000    
2013-06-11 00:47:15    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.06500000/ea    ฿0.06500000    
2013-06-11 00:47:00    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07000000/ea    ฿0.07000000    
2013-06-11 00:46:48    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07500000/ea    ฿0.07500000    
2013-06-11 00:46:36    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.08000000/ea    ฿0.08000000    
2013-06-11 00:46:28    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09000000/ea    ฿0.09000000    
2013-06-11 00:46:13    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09500000/ea    ฿0.09500000    
2013-06-10 23:19:59    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09900000/ea    ฿0.09900000    
2013-06-08 03:55:34    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   23     ฿0.05250000/ea    ฿1.20750000    
2013-06-08 03:37:33    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   17     ฿0.05250000/ea    ฿0.89250000    
2013-06-06 10:37:48    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   67     ฿0.05399000/ea    ฿3.61733000    
2013-06-06 10:36:44    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   33     ฿0.05399000/ea    ฿1.78167000    
2013-06-06 10:36:05    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   8     ฿0.05354000/ea    ฿0.42832000    
2013-06-06 10:35:26    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.05354000/ea    ฿0.05354000    
2013-06-01 13:45:24    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   75     ฿0.04900000/ea    ฿3.67500000    
2013-06-01 10:58:41    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   3     ฿0.04900000/ea    ฿0.14700000    
2013-06-01 10:58:08    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   4     ฿0.04900000/ea    ฿0.19600000    
2013-06-01 09:49:59    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.04900000/ea    ฿0.04900000    
2013-06-01 02:35:59    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   5     ฿0.04900000/ea    ฿0.24500000    

This is a snippet from my personal trading account. This is me buying back over 30% of issued shares at a price above book value. And there is a reason why I am doing it.

As for the rest of your comments, you clearly have no clue how to run an asset. The fact that I and the company can buy back shares at this price is proof the company is worth that much. Hint: If the company has the cash to buy back all it's outstanding shares at 0.1, it is worth at least that much because it has the cash on hand. If no one else wants to buy or sell shares at that price, it is meaningless. The fact remains; no one wants to sell at anywhere close to NAV, and that is a sign of incredible faith in management. Tu.SILVER will be worth more and more as time goes by because the hefty distribution payment will be reinvested by the company.

Aren't you really just whining because no one wants to sell their shares under 0.09? Because you can't buy cheap shares? Well, sucks to be you doesn't it? Try playing nice and I'll consider a PP for 500+ shares at 10% off. Till then, have fun lying about me and my funds. It's not working anymore.

Oh, one other thing. Can you juke 5,000 LTC-ATF.B1 for me? I've decided your fund sucks and will be investing elsewhere.

[Deprived]

Perhaps the best and fairest way to look at how good his reporting is would be to look at his active, running asset - TU.SILVER.  So let's have a look at its NAV/U,

Hmm, I can't.  To look at the accounts I'd have to spend $90 buying a share then give it to him.  Luckily he has weekly reports, so I don't need to see the accounts - and can just look at the NAV/U there.

Hmm, that's strange.  There's no mention in of it in the last few.  In fact the last mention of any NAV/U or similar is in the monthly report at the end of May where it says :

"Internal Calculation of 0.04348010"

Guess it hasn't changed much and that's still around what the NAV/U is.  And there's another clue as to where the price lies in a later post of his:

An example of an un-reasonable price (imo) is 0.033 and 0.099. The people with those orders up should be unlikely to get them filled!

His advice to investors, BTW, is just to guess what the price is - put up an order and if he likes it he'll fill it.  

So over we trot to the Bitfunder order book to pick up some of the shares - we know there should be some for sale as he just got some new silver in.

Hmm - fuck all volume on the Bid side (he long since gave up the pretence that he was going to provide visible liquidity) and on the Ask side:

21    ฿0.09090    
45    ฿0.0910    
700    ฿0.10      

Nothing under .09.  And we know the 700 order is his (check asset lists and noone other that him holds anything near that number) - at a price he himself said was unreasonable not that long ago (and with no news in between to suggest it had suddenly become reasonable).

What's happening here is actually classic usagi.  He tries to sell his shares at well above their value - making sure to either give no information or wrong information to investors.  If some sucker actually buys at that price, that then increases NAV/U and he can either pay it out as dividends or brag about how his trading is making profit.  When all he's really doing is running a near ponzi - where the profit for existing shares come from new sales.

1. I am not obliged to buy or sell shares at any price. The FACT that the market participants do not want to sell shares under 0.09 should be a big clue to you.

2. Here's another clue, doofus:

2013-06-25 05:21:40    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09090000/ea    ฿0.09090000    
2013-06-24 19:03:56    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09090000/ea    ฿0.09090000    
2013-06-23 22:10:04    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   5     ฿0.09000000/ea    ฿0.45000000    
2013-06-23 08:08:02    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09090000/ea    ฿0.09090000    
2013-06-23 06:51:00    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07000000/ea    ฿0.07000000    
2013-06-23 06:50:52    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07100000/ea    ฿0.07100000    
2013-06-23 06:50:44    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07200000/ea    ฿0.07200000    
2013-06-23 06:50:37    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07300000/ea    ฿0.07300000    
2013-06-23 06:50:30    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07400000/ea    ฿0.07400000    
2013-06-23 06:50:24    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07500000/ea    ฿0.07500000    
2013-06-23 03:20:55    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09100000/ea    ฿0.09100000    
2013-06-20 12:59:17    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07000000/ea    ฿0.07000000    
2013-06-20 12:59:00    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07600000/ea    ฿0.07600000    
2013-06-20 09:07:12    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09100000/ea    ฿0.09100000    
2013-06-19 16:58:39    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09100000/ea    ฿0.09100000    
2013-06-18 08:23:39    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09000000/ea    ฿0.09000000    
2013-06-18 08:23:38    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.08100000/ea    ฿0.08100000    
2013-06-17 11:22:09    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09000000/ea    ฿0.09000000    
2013-06-15 22:20:33    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09099900/ea    ฿0.09099900    
2013-06-15 04:01:14    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09100000/ea    ฿0.09100000    
2013-06-14 00:52:59    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.06100000/ea    ฿0.06100000    
2013-06-14 00:52:53    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.06200000/ea    ฿0.06200000    
2013-06-14 00:52:45    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.06300000/ea    ฿0.06300000    
2013-06-14 00:52:40    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.06400000/ea    ฿0.06400000    
2013-06-14 00:52:35    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.06500000/ea    ฿0.06500000    
2013-06-14 00:52:23    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.06600000/ea    ฿0.06600000    
2013-06-13 22:02:31    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09100000/ea    ฿0.09100000    
2013-06-13 00:55:50    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09100000/ea    ฿0.09100000    
2013-06-12 05:48:21    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09100000/ea    ฿0.09100000    
2013-06-11 08:02:26    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   2     ฿0.09100000/ea    ฿0.18200000    
2013-06-11 00:47:15    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.06500000/ea    ฿0.06500000    
2013-06-11 00:47:00    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07000000/ea    ฿0.07000000    
2013-06-11 00:46:48    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07500000/ea    ฿0.07500000    
2013-06-11 00:46:36    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.08000000/ea    ฿0.08000000    
2013-06-11 00:46:28    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09000000/ea    ฿0.09000000    
2013-06-11 00:46:13    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09500000/ea    ฿0.09500000    
2013-06-10 23:19:59    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09900000/ea    ฿0.09900000    
2013-06-08 03:55:34    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   23     ฿0.05250000/ea    ฿1.20750000    
2013-06-08 03:37:33    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   17     ฿0.05250000/ea    ฿0.89250000    
2013-06-06 10:37:48    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   67     ฿0.05399000/ea    ฿3.61733000    
2013-06-06 10:36:44    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   33     ฿0.05399000/ea    ฿1.78167000    
2013-06-06 10:36:05    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   8     ฿0.05354000/ea    ฿0.42832000    
2013-06-06 10:35:26    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.05354000/ea    ฿0.05354000    
2013-06-01 13:45:24    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   75     ฿0.04900000/ea    ฿3.67500000    
2013-06-01 10:58:41    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   3     ฿0.04900000/ea    ฿0.14700000    
2013-06-01 10:58:08    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   4     ฿0.04900000/ea    ฿0.19600000    
2013-06-01 09:49:59    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.04900000/ea    ฿0.04900000    
2013-06-01 02:35:59    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   5     ฿0.04900000/ea    ฿0.24500000    

This is a snippet from my personal trading account. This is me buying back over 30% of issued shares at a price above book value. And there is a reason why I am doing it.

As for the rest of your comments, you clearly have no clue how to run an asset. The fact that I and the company can buy back shares at this price is proof the company is worth that much. Hint: If the company has the cash to buy back all it's outstanding shares at 0.1, it is worth at least that much because it has the cash on hand. If no one else wants to buy or sell shares at that price, it is meaningless. The fact remains; no one wants to sell at anywhere close to NAV, and that is a sign of incredible faith in management. Tu.SILVER will be worth more and more as time goes by because the hefty distribution payment will be reinvested by the company.

Aren't you really just whining because no one wants to sell their shares under 0.09? Because you can't buy cheap shares? Well, sucks to be you doesn't it? Try playing nice and I'll consider a PP for 500+ shares at 10% off. Till then, have fun lying about me and my funds. It's not working anymore.

Oh, one other thing. Can you juke 5,000 LTC-ATF.B1 for me? I've decided your fund sucks and will be investing elsewhere.

Pretty hilarious post.

Your point 1 is that noone will sell back under .09.  Then in your point 2 you produce proof of people doing exactly that - selling back under .09.

You then talk about how if a company can afford to buy-back shares at .1 it means something.  But you'd just said that the buy-backs were with your PERSONAL account and not by the company at all.  And with your company attempting to SELL at 0.1 Not BUY.

Noone wanting to sell near NAV means exactly squat when you don't even tell people what NAV is!  They're entitled to expect the price you're trying to sell at is near NAV as your contract says :

"How it works
We calculate the price of silver in bitcoins and add a small markup for shipping and vault storage."

and also :

"The lowest price in BTC
Compare our prices to most online coin shops and we believe you will choose TU.SILVER."

You brag about having a small markup and being cheap - which can ONLY be true if you sell slightly over NAV/U.  Obviously it's just a pack of lies - but maybe not all investors are familiar with your lying ways - and so assume your selling price has some relationship to the NAV/U.

Now BMF's approved I guess the market has to put up with the same crap there - specifically :

Small bids up to over NAV/U from you to try to tempt overbids.
Disguised issued share count - tempting investors who try to calculate NAV/U from holdings to forget all the unseen off-the-books shares held by you/your companies and end up believing it much higher than it is.
Dumps from you when some idiot overbids your own bids.
Buy-backs (likely undisclosed) to drain cash (if you ever get any) to your other companies/yourself.
Lack of regular updates on NAV/U to help investors make mistakes.

On LTC-ATF.B1 you can sell back the bonds for either BTC or LTC.
If you want BTC then you can have full face value.
If you want LTC then it'll take slightly longer - and you'll get (per the contract) whatever LTC is raised by selling 99% of face value (so 49.5 BTC) into bids on BTC-E.  Delay will just be however long it takes for burnside to approve a withdrawal - there'd be 0 delay on the other direction as would immediately pay if from LTC already held on LTC-Global.

In either case DMS would be taking them so you'd need to :

1.  Send the shares to DeprivedMining on LTC-Global (you can send to DeprivedAsset - the issuer - if you prefer).
2.  PM me or reply here saying whether you want LTC or BTC, which account you want it sent to (user name) and which user names you sent from (PM may be better if you don't want all your user names made public - it must be at least 4 different accounts if you have 5k).
3.  If BTC you'll get a transfer soon as I notice, if LTC I'll submit a BTC withdrawal immediately - sell it when it lands then promptly send you the LTC.  Obviously selling ~50 BTC at once may take the price down somewhat.  BTC would come from DeprivedMining on BTC-TC, LTC would come from DeprivedAsset on LTC-Global.

[Deprived]

And one final point - even if TU.SILVER DOES have enough cash to buy back all shares at 0.1 it says NOTHING about the value of the company - liabilities (such as the loans from yourself) need to be deducted from assets when working out a valuation.  The amount of cash, on its own, is meaningless.  A business (or person) can have a pile of cash yet have a value less than zero.  A subtle point that I appreciate you may have problems comprehending.

[usagi]

[...]
Your point 1 is that noone will sell back under .09.  Then in your point 2 you produce proof of people doing exactly that - selling back under .09.
[...]
Now BMF's approved I guess the market has to put up with the same crap there - specifically :

Small bids up to over NAV/U from you to try to tempt overbids.
Disguised issued share count - tempting investors who try to calculate NAV/U from holdings to forget all the unseen off-the-books shares held by you/your companies and end up believing it much higher than it is.
Dumps from you when some idiot overbids your own bids.
Buy-backs (likely undisclosed) to drain cash (if you ever get any) to your other companies/yourself.
Lack of regular updates on NAV/U to help investors make mistakes.

You have demonstrated you have no idea how a market works. I can not 'tempt overbids' if the market moves against me. You can not declare market price by fiat (you can try, but the market will move against you).

Second issue is that there are no BMF shares for sale, I've only issued bids, which pretty much blows everything you said to shit. For example, if I am attempting to disguise the share count this will work against me because it will lead people not to sell. So what then is my goal here? Your theory is illogical. What you are saying does not make sense.

I think you said it best yourself about your very own asset:

LTC-ATF is undoubtedly the better investment if you can buy it at a reasonable price - and therein lies your problem : noone wants to sell LTC-ATF at a reasonable price.

On LTC-ATF.B1 you can sell back the bonds for either BTC or LTC.
If you want BTC then you can have full face value.
If you want LTC then it'll take slightly longer - and you'll get (per the contract) whatever LTC is raised by selling 99% of face value (so 49.5 BTC) into bids on BTC-E.  Delay will just be however long it takes for burnside to approve a withdrawal - there'd be 0 delay on the other direction as would immediately pay if from LTC already held on LTC-Global.

You offered me 105%, I hope you're not planning to back out on that? I can't quite recall if you stated it was a standing offer, but I don't think you said when it would expire. Surely you wouldn't back out of that commitment? Can you clarify what you said? At any rate I'm getting 110%+ for them on the market right now, although I am not sure how long that will last... (EDIT: I found the post, and it has been edited down to 2% over face value. I guess I shouldn't complain...)

In any case LTC or BTC as you wish, I am guessing you like BTC in this instance because of DMS, right.

[EskimoBob]

...

This is a snippet from my personal trading account. This is me buying back over 30% of issued shares at a price above book value. And there is a reason why I am doing it.

...

Hmm... you as a TU.SILVER using funds coin or you as a usagi, spending your own personal coin?
 
Fixed the quoting

[Deprived]

You offered me 105%, I hope you're not planning to back out on that? I can't quite recall if you stated it was a standing offer, but I don't think you said when it would expire. Surely you wouldn't back out of that commitment? Can you clarify what you said? At any rate I'm getting 110%+ for them on the market right now, although I am not sure how long that will last... (EDIT: I found the post, and it has been edited down to 2% over face value. I guess I shouldn't complain...)

In any case LTC or BTC as you wish, I am guessing you like BTC in this instance because of DMS, right.

That offer wasn't edited - feel free to ask a Mod to check (I give my permission for them to confirm it never said 105% - or any amount other than what's still in it).  You're just misremembering/lying - as usual.

The offer clearly said I was looking for 25 BTC-worth max personally, which I obtained long ago after you showed no interest.  If you wanted to sell to me personally at 102% you should have said yes when I offered - not expect me to stop looking for other sources after you said you didn't even want an offer for them and meant LTC-ATF.

Makes no odds to me whether you want BTC or LTC - LTC is more hassle for me but you get less BTC-worth and have to wait a few hours (or longer if burnside isn't around) to get it.

As I said - I need to know which you want, what accounts are sending (so I don't pay for shares someone else sent) and which account you want the funds sent to.  Then soon as I see your message/post and confirm arrival of the shares I'll do my half.

EDIT: To be crystal clear the offer is full face value in BTC or 99% face value converted into LTC (with likely slippage when I sell).  My guess is you never intended to sell anyway - and are just trying to find a way to change your mind.  Though it's strange you'd hold LTC-ATF.B1 - it's not mining and it doesn't make a loss so doesn't really fit your usual investment profile on both counts.

[Deprived]

It looks like BMF got it's 5 votes on BTC-TC.

Yeah - it did.  The bad news is investors there get to lose money, the good news is we get continued entertainment.

[Deprived]

You have demonstrated you have no idea how a market works. I can not 'tempt overbids' if the market moves against me. You can not declare market price by fiat (you can try, but the market will move against you).

Second issue is that there are no BMF shares for sale, I've only issued bids, which pretty much blows everything you said to shit. For example, if I am attempting to disguise the share count this will work against me because it will lead people not to sell. So what then is my goal here? Your theory is illogical. What you are saying does not make sense.

LOL - stupid or just lying?

You intend to sell - not buy.  Like all market manipulators you don't put the shares you intend to sell up - as that scares people into going lower.  You build the price up with bids, wait for someone to bid above you then sell to them - so it always looks like there's a shortage of supply.

Most 'investors' don't look at anyhting much other than what's on the market - if it looks like something's the range a security trades in they bid or ask in that range.  There's some really horrid examples of this happening on LTC-GLobal - where one investor has got most of the shares in a security and is successfully keeping the price high.

If you're trying to sell (and you MUST be if you want to even pretend you're intending to close the other companies out) then you want the range high.  SO rather trivially you WANT sells people put up to be high - leaving more room below it for bids to rise into.  And, of course, you want people placing Bids to over-estimate the price.

So:

Are you too stupid to know that?
Or were you just lying as usual?
Or were you telling the truth here - but lying about Nyan/CPA intending to close (and hence needing so sell their shares back)?
And why don't you distribute their shares?  Right now there's no way for investors to see how many shares are actually outstanding.  I can't think of any GOOD reasons why that would be desirable - it only helps in various deceptions.

[Entropy-uc]

It looks like BMF got it's 5 votes on BTC-TC.

Yeah - it did.  The bad news is investors there get to lose money, the good news is we get continued entertainment.

The bad news for burnside is he's now married to a mentally unstable share issuer.

[Deprived]

Have amended thread title - now BMF is approved there's no point addressing LTC-Global Moderators.

Rather than making a new thread I'll just use this one for occasional glimpses of the farce that is usagi attempting to run businesses.

Let's have a look quickly at how usagi set his current price he's trying to offload TU.SILVER at :

[All I can do is create pressure. I can place bids over the ask or try to cool the heat by selling at less than NAV. But that damages the company's finances -- you cannot declare by fiat what other people will pay for your security (see: ART). So to create pressure I decided to pay out close to what we make from trading, which allows investors to set the value of TU.SILVER based on the income it generates. Investors can compare the payment of TU.SILVER to something like BTC-BOND. For example (just for example) if BTC-BOND is worth 0.01 per share and pays approx. 11% a year in interest, then what would TU.SILVER be worth if it paid 10x as much per day as BTC-BOND? And later, if I lower the distribution it will be okay, because investors will recognize that the cash is being used to reinvest into the company. So their value still increases, just via capital gain instead of via distributions.

Well in theory, a payment of 10x per day what BTC-BOND would insinuate that all other things being equal, TU.SILVER would be worth 10x what BTC-BOND is worth. That is why I put up all the shares we had for 0.1. of course I am sure that TU.SILVER is not as "trustworthy" as BTC-BOND, but then again there is real silver backing each share of TU.SILVER, not just an investment position. But the long and short of it is I am simply unwilling to say "TU.SILVER is worth 0.05 per share" because then I get yokels like EskimoBob posting fake spreadsheets telling people I scammed 8,000 BTC. It's not worth the trouble, sorry bro.

There's two things VERY wrong with this approach:

1.  Cherry-picking.  Why, I wonder, did he happen to pick BTC-BOND to compare with?  Could it possibly be that was the lowest paying fixed-rate security he could find?  TU.SILVER is listed on Bitfunder - BTC-BOND is listed on BTC-TC.  Wouldn't it have been easier to compare with GRAET.LOAN which is conveniently just above TU.SILVER in the securities list on Bitfunder?

Well - it may be easier to get to (same site and all that) - but the problem is it pays rather a higher rate of interest than BTC-BOND (both BTC-BOND and GRAET.LOAN are effectively personal loans).  If usagi had compared to that, then he'd have ended up having to value TU.SILVER way lower.  Other fixed-rate investments include Coinlender and LTC-ATF.B1 - both paying significantly more than BTC-BOND - but GRAET.LOAN is the obviosu one to compare to IF comparing to a fixed-rate instrument is valid in the first place.  WHich leads nicely to the second point.

2.  Apples and Oranges.  Bonds and funds aren't the same thing.  At 0.1 per share, only a small minority of TU.SILVER's price is guaranteed by silver backing, whilst 100% of BTC-BOND and GRAET.LOAN are guaranteed by their issuers.  Usagi COULD make a case that those guarantees aren't necessarily credible in all circumstances - but they're still more guaranteed than no guarantee at all.

So not only is Usagi comparing Apples and Oranges (or maybe Apples and a Lemon) but he's deliberately picking the smallest apple to compare to.

That sort of behaviour will, of course, come as no surprise to those familiar with usagi.  Historically he's always claimed that BMF outperformed ALL mining stocks.  That's a lie (Moore is the easiest example of one it didn't outperform - it paid dividends AND retained full value).  And it's also the wrong comparison - he should be comparing to funds.

He still continues to compare BMF to just about anyhting other than other funds.  At present he's trying to compare it to PMBs, bonds etc - but not a single fund.  Where are the meaningful comparisons - to things like BTCInvest or LTC-ATF?  Or the most obvious one of all - to MININGCO.ETF which is a fund investing (like BMF) in mining securities and listed on the same exchange as it?  The onbvious answer is that at some level usagi knows that his policy of spewing cash away on overpriced PMBs won't make BMF look good if compared to anything where the manager actually does analysis.

And no usagi - just because 'analysis' has 'anal' in it does NOT mean talking out of your arse is analysis.

[EskimoBob]

Any news? All the NYAN's and CPA are still locked. 

[usagi]

Any news? All the NYAN's and CPA are still locked. 

If you're looking for news, check out the official thread. Deprived deletes everything I post here, so there's no point talking about it in this thread.

[Deprived]

Any news? All the NYAN's and CPA are still locked. 

If you're looking for news, check out the official thread. Deprived deletes everything I post here, so there's no point talking about it in this thread.

Good luck finding an official thread for CPA or Nyan.

News is that the usual dodgy shit is still going on.  It's now next to impossible to work out how many hsares of BMF are outstanding - as the ones owned by Nyan and CPA have STILL not been transferred to their correct accounts.  That means the issuing account holds assets of Nyan/CPA as well as those of BMF - a shockingly bad practice that usagi refuses to abandon.

Usagi placed shares up for sale (and sold some) but it's impossible to tell whether they were new shares sold or ones that previously belonged to Nyan/CPA.  Logic says that they should be ones belonging to Nyan/CPA - as they're allegedly closing down, so if the fund i tself sold new ones Nyan would HAVE to undercut it as there's no way they could sell above what BMF was selling for.  But logic - and acting responsibly on behalf of creditors - don't feature heavily in usagi's arsenal.  Without knowing whether the sales are fresh from the fund or existing ones DOES impact potential investors - as, in theory, where sales are above NAV/U new ones are worth more than existing ones (as the extra gos into the fund thus raising the overall NAV/U).

BMF has paid dividends.  One would assume Nyan and CPA received their portion off the records - yet there's no sign of distribution of that to Nyan.  It may be that usagi mistakenly believes that having made some promise (which he shows little intention of keeping in any reasonable time-scale) to personally repay investors somehow frees him from giving them money they're already entitled to - that would be incorrect.  Funds obtained from dividends or from sale of remainign assets (e.g. BitVPS) should still be getting distributed.  There's been no news on BitVPS - yet it's paid a dividend.  Either funds from sale and/or funds from dividends should have been passed to Nyan.A.

It's obvious that usagi has lost interest in paying back nyan.a - and funds which should go there are being used for his other activities.  In fact when BMF relaunched there were also unaccounted for funds belong to BMF - though the bulk of those have now reappeared.

BMF seems to be doing well - investing in core mining businesses such as Just-Dice.  Never let it be said that little things like a contract ever got in the way of usagi doing anything (prior to the new contract being passed other investments were fine - now they aren't as there's no provision in the contract for investing in non-mining assets).  Interestingly there's no provision for any management fee in the new BMF contract - one of the few occasions where usagi correctly valued something.

I'll be making a request for trading to be halted if the outstanding shares issue isn't sorted - it's just not acceptable for something to run where there's no visibility of how many shares are outstanding.

[usagi]

I'll be making a request for trading to be halted if the outstanding shares issue isn't sorted - it's just not acceptable for something to run where there's no visibility of how many shares are outstanding.

Please see Lie #12 in the BMF Truth Thread. Does that answer all your lies, or are there any other lies you would like to tell about me?

[EskimoBob]

Any news? All the NYAN's and CPA are still locked. 

If you're looking for news, check out the official thread. Deprived deletes everything I post here, so there's no point talking about it in this thread.

And the official thread for NYAN's and CPA is which one? URL please.
Thank you

[Deprived]

I'll be making a request for trading to be halted if the outstanding shares issue isn't sorted - it's just not acceptable for something to run where there's no visibility of how many shares are outstanding.

Please see Lie #12 in the BMF Truth Thread. Does that answer all your lies, or are there any other lies you would like to tell about me?

Will address this one briefly.  Will get to rest when I have time (from a quick reading on ne arly all of them you're arguing against strawmen rather than against what I actually said).

He's right on one thing though -- I placed shares up for sale, and sold some, and that it is impossible to tell whether they were new shares or sold ones that previously pelonged to Nyan/CPA. Let us all take a moment to thank Deprived, aka Dr. Obvious. Of course you don't know who is putting shares up for sale or who they belong to. Only I know that information because only I have access to the list of investors (and burnside I suppose). You can probably glean from the total number of outstanding shares listed whether or not the company has sold any (and it has, maybe 860 shares, not sure) -- but beyond that this information is confidential or I suppose BTC-TC would e-mail a list of shareholders to every investor. Unfortunately for Deprived this simply isn't an issue. Don't you wish he would just go away and stop making a fool of himself? Request to halt trading on BMF? Don't make me laugh, after the last 12 lies he told about me and BMF, he has less than zero credibility, it's actually gone negative.

It has nothing to do with which which investors hold what shares - but with how many shares are sold in total.

If the fund itself sells a share then outstanding shares should rise by 1.
If nyan.a/CPA/whatever sells a share then outstanding shares shouldn't change - as the same number of shares is in circulation.

The whole response is a total attack on a strawman as at no stage did I suggest the identity of the seller (or purchaser) or shares that were already outstanding should be disclosed.  Just that investors (current or potential) should be able to tell when a sale was by the fund itself rather than by a current investor - something every other asset on BTC-TC does.

For those who don't want to wait for my reponse just look carefully at what usagi quotes me as saying - then at what he argues against.  And you'll find in most cases that he's arguing aginst something other than what I actually posted.

[Deprived]

Any news? All the NYAN's and CPA are still locked.  

If you're looking for news, check out the official thread. Deprived deletes everything I post here, so there's no point talking about it in this thread.

And the official thread for NYAN's and CPA is which one? URL please.
Thank you

You need to read his TRUTH post.

The situation with nyan.a would appear to be that because he can't pay back it all he's not bothering to pay back any.  He even says he intends to continue running it despite:

The CPA guarantee not existing any more in any useful form.
Most of Nyan's assets having been sold.
Nyan.b and c being entitled to profit from it - whilst offering no security in return.

Basically he's desperate to avoid paying out - knowing full well that if he does most won't reinvest - so you're shit out of luck on getting your cash back.  Not just the promised full repayment but the cash he already has of yours from dividends/sales.  That's if he still actually has it of course.