Official Anoncoin chat thread (including history)

[geekz]

Guys, join the IRC Channel. Its awesome! There is a lot of activity there.
 http://forum.anoncoin.net is 10x faster now and we can start discussions there.
New wiki is getting ready at  : http://wiki.anoncoin.net

Join the community. Be part of history!

[K1773R]

A user in #anoncoin reported Bleutrade is banning TOR. Ive discussed it with them and they have lifted the TOR ban. Good to see they support anonymity!

[drAGon925]

A user in #anoncoin reported Bleutrade is banning TOR. Ive discussed it with them and they have lifted the TOR ban. Good to see they support anonymity!

The same day I register on bluetrade, I get 2 mails with alert that someone try to log in to my email, from China and US and that is good to change my pass..
after that, 3 more times.

Maybe it's a coincidence, but newer happened to me before..

[drAGon925]

I've been thinking about nonsense and compete DRK vs LTC these days, and I came to a conclusion.
There are people who buy LTC and not BTC, so there are people who prefer high premined DRK with fake anonymity, than real solid anonymous ANC who is first anon-coin, and will be first with total anonymity in few weeks.


 

[Gnosis-]

Another feature idea that would distinguish anoncoin.

An implementation of ring signatures into messages on the blockchain. You put a small amount of data into your transaction along with the coin addresses of those people who should be able to read the message.

The message can be decrypted by any one of the people whose addresses are attached to the message, with their password.

That feature would be more in line with the 'anonymous' image than anonymity in transactions.

You seem to be describing something that is not ring signatures. A ring signature is where you make a signature such that an outside party knows that it was signed by the private key with corresponding public key in some set of public keys, wihout the outside party knowing which of the public keys actually signed it. It's good for CoinJoin, which could be useful as a less expensive supplement to Zerocoin. This will be researched after launching ZC.

And in case you're wondering, ring signatures are not as good as Zerocoin, since the storage required is proportional to the number of public keys "mixed" with.

What you are describing is simply encrypting a message to multiple recipients. I don't think we should ever have such a thing in the blockchain unless there's a very good reason.

[Gnosis-]

[...]
Gnosis, Can you create a page where the progress in ufo generation can be seen live?
How many days , do you think it will take.
It would be nice to see , how many users are online and all..

When I get some time, I will. What I can say is that the largest factor found so far is 20153043929894944228905854901600084557... 124 bits! Keep up the good work.

Guys, join the IRC Channel. Its awesome! There is a lot of activity there.
 http://forum.anoncoin.net is 10x faster now and we can start discussions there.
New wiki is getting ready at  : http://wiki.anoncoin.net

Join the community. Be part of history!

100% agreed.

[gunzeon]

where can i buy them as cheap as at cryptsy ? ... but not at cryptsy cos they are stuck in there ...

[geekz]

A general comment for the anoncoin devs.

New cheap anonymous coins are popping up like fleas. It is important to have a degree of secure anonymity but it is also important to focus on the core strengths of anoncoin.

Anoncoin has some qualities that cannot be imitated nor mass produced.

1) It was the first coin, aside from bitcoin, to focus on anonymity. Bitcoin did not perfect anonymity, anoncoin didn't and no coin likely will. The nsa has raw endpoint data for every ip address in the united states and no matter how much technostuff you put into a coin, if a person uses their home computer anonymity is limited. It is an endless game of a few smart programmers working against an army of highly paid bureaucraps who have access to literally any resource they need.

2) Aside from being the first coin to step closer to anonymity, anoncoin maintained the high ethical standards of bitcoin. Some other coins have relied on shills, gimmicky giveaways and other douchebaggeries to promote their coin, anoncoin has clean hands so far, one of the few.

3) The anon 'meme' is extremely powerful, especially considering coins are global and lack any of the common political themes that pollute fiat. People look at the features a coin has but more and more, coins are political statements. The next big wave in altcoins, when the massive buying starts, will not be about features that take 5 minutes to put into a coin. It will be about the integrity of the coin and what a person means to say when they buy it.


If anoncoin did not exist and just today someone decided to create it, as it is now, it would be very popular quickly. People are trusting coins to be their political uniforms. Look at the graph for conspiracy coin on poloniex https://poloniex.com/exchange/btc_cyc Anoncoin is the best positioned coin in the political statement realm, after bitcoin.

Very well said my friend. We have to try to reach people with the message. Lets produce videos and articles to spread the message. 
New wiki is taking shape here : http://wiki.anoncoin.net/index.php?title=Category:Anoncoin

[fuckbuddy]

What you are describing is simply encrypting a message to multiple recipients. I don't think we should ever have such a thing in the blockchain unless there's a very good reason.

I respect your work and I especially respect anyone who would have Gnosis as a username, but let's back up a second.

Anoncoin is respected as an attempt to add an additional face to the spirit of the anonymous collective, individuals who have certain values. The financial anonymity of the coin has very little to do with that spirit. Anonymous financial options are available to those who want them, in several coins. Financial anonymity is important but should never become the core.

Hi,

Actually, no cryptocurrency as of now offers any serious anonymity, although it seems that ANC is the most promising one to fulfill this objective. IMHO its not about spirit and values but rather anonymous transactions online.

[K1773R]

New wiki is taking shape here : http://wiki.anoncoin.net/index.php?title=Category:Anoncoin

First impression,
1) The first page takes a long time to load, obviously a work in progress, but other pages look very sharp.
2) Text like "I2P is a scalable, self organizing, resilient packet switched anonymous network layer, upon which any number of different anonymity or security conscious applications can operate" is a little over the top. The coin is for human beings, not robots.

I would like to write for the wikis of anoncoin and hobonickels, but honestly my writing alienates people and I think I would be more helpful to anoncoin writing for the wikis of bytecoin, darkcoin etc, none of which I own nor would buy. I have several websites and my writing gets overwhelmingly negative feedback. The wiki is important though and I will definitely contribute ideas and feedback.

You are aware that if you do things "humanish" as you want it, you piss of certain ppl which we need/consist of?

[Gnosis-]

What you are describing is simply encrypting a message to multiple recipients. I don't think we should ever have such a thing in the blockchain unless there's a very good reason.

I respect your work and I especially respect anyone who would have Gnosis as a username, but let's back up a second.

Anoncoin is respected as an attempt to add an additional face to the spirit of the anonymous collective, individuals who have certain values. The financial anonymity of the coin has very little to do with that spirit. Anonymous financial options are available to those who want them, in several coins. Financial anonymity is important but should never become the core.

Sharing information without the intrusion of gangsters, including and especially those in govt, is far more basic a right than sharing, spending, etc money anonymously.

This goal is very important to me personally, but a blockchain may not be the right tool for the job. Also, there are existing products, such as Syndie, OTR, TextSecure, Freenet, and plain old GPG-encrypted email (to name a few) which could fill this need.

If your concern is with the general public not using such tools enough, I think it's not that the right technology has not come along, it's more that user interfaces and security education are both lacking.  And for those who are not tech savvy coming up against a behemoth like the NSA, they're likely to feel completely defeated and just give up on the idea of having privacy from such an entity. We should fight this defeatism as well, somehow.

There are many things I cannot say in public. I have gone to jail and been beaten by police only for words, though certainly not to the extent that many other people have and are. There is lterally no country on earth where complete freedom of speech exists. In the u.s. of course there is the patriot act, famous for stifling speech and thought, but there are also secret provisions of the patriot act. You can commit a crime of word or deed without even knowing you commited a crime, since the fact that it was illegal was and is secret.

To add free speech, in any way, to a coin is worth more than adding the confidence that transactions are anonymous, when in fact they might not be. Every so called perfect tool that involves more than a few people is eventually found to be corrupted. We know the nsa and others have penetrated most encryption tools in one way or another. There have been news items about the nsa attempts to penetrate tor. Were they successful?  Only they know. You can argue that tor or any other tool is unbreakable but there are workarounds, backdoors, for any tool that involves a network. All they need is one person to insert one small snippet of code and they own it all.

I think the recent discoveries of what the NSA has done and can do should make us all more careful with how we develop software, what software we install, etc., but it's not an impossible task to resist this.  Intelligence agencies love automated snooping and hacking tools because they are scalable to billions of persons. On the other hand, automated tools can only do so much, and can be thwarted by a careful, paranoid person who knows software and hardware well.  There are also targeted attacks, which can be very penetrating, but those require actual person-hours being devoted to it, so intelligence agencies have a limited ability to do those.

If the developers can stay anonymous, then it is much less likely they will fall victim to targeted attacks, since the NSA/GCHQ/whatever would not use targeted attacks against random Internet users that blend in with the crowd -- it's too expensive.  Since developers have to pay for food, rent, etc., it's essential that they be able to send and/or receive money anonymously as well.

I guess this has turned into a rant, oops.

The best use of anonymity is for sharing information, not money. If necessary alternate blockchains can be used, a main blockchain for coin transactions and one or more additional blockchains for text that can be downloaded to run with the financial blockchain, if the size of the blockchain is the issue. Also of course the data in the encrypted blockchain should be strictly limited to text, since words should always be 100% unrestricted, while some other forms of data perhaps not.

A coin that allows reliable encryption of text as long as the computers are clean would be more useful than hiding coins.

Blockchain size is exactly what I'm concerned with. I think having text in an alternate blockchain is much preferable to encouraging this to be stored in the Anoncoin blockchain.

[lunokhod2]

Hi Gnosis,

I have a quick question about the RSA UFOs that will be used in Zerocoin:

For the Anoncoin implementation, will you be using the originally generated RSA UFOs, or will you instead be using the UFOs after their small factors have been removed?

I understand why we are trying to remove small factors for the selection process (some UFOs might be inappropriate and only contain small factors...). However, it seems to me that if someone is going to try to crack Zerocoin, that we shouldn't make it easy for them: They should have to redo all the work that we are now doing.

On the other hand, by using a smaller UFO, it might be less computationally intensive for the zero-knowledge proofs and better for the network...

[K1773R]

You are aware that if you do things "humanish" as you want it, you piss of certain ppl which we need/consist of?

A question though of writing for the proper audience. If you are speaking to French people you have to speak French, not Italian. If you are speaking to normal humanoids you have to speak English not complicated codespeak.

However looking at the words in the wiki it does give extremely detailed complex information in a concise way, it just is aimed at a higher intelligence level than most people who are likely to seek information there, or at least its hard for me to understand it easily.

So we would need a simple explanation ina TL;DR style. How about something like this?

[WDL]

I withdrew some anc from cryptsy and processed soon, but I didn't accepted my anc until now,3 days had passed.Cryptsy sucks.
So I talked with a manager of btc38.com and suggested they submit ANC-BTC for worldwide anc enthusiast,I accepted positive response,maybe in a few days we will be able to see the ANC-BTC on btc38.com in Englsih version.
Of course you can buy ANC by RMB on  btc38.com right now(http://www.btc38.com/trade.html?btc38_trade_coin_name=anc)   ,  RMB can be got by sell BTC(http://www.btc38.com/trade.html?btc38_trade_coin_name=btc).
Btc38.com is a reputable and efficient exchange，they hold 100 percent reserve.

[Gnosis-]

Hi Gnosis,

I have a quick question about the RSA UFOs that will be used in Zerocoin:

For the Anoncoin implementation, will you be using the originally generated RSA UFOs, or will you instead be using the UFOs after their small factors have been removed?

The latter. It would be equivalent security either way, but more efficient to use the UFOs after known factors are removed.

I understand why we are trying to remove small factors for the selection process (some UFOs might be inappropriate and only contain small factors...). However, it seems to me that if someone is going to try to crack Zerocoin, that we shouldn't make it easy for them: They should have to redo all the work that we are now doing.

On the other hand, by using a smaller UFO, it might be less computationally intensive for the zero-knowledge proofs and better for the network...

A powerful entity (for example, the NSA) could certainly find all the factors we are finding, and possibly more. We stand the best chance by reducing the processing power gap between us and them as much as possible (so that they don't know much that we don't know), which is why I started this project, and why I'm trying to get as many people to participate as possible.  My target is that there be less than a 1/1,000,000,000 chance (1e-9) that factoring all RSA UFOs can be done, assuming that a 2048-bit RSA modulus is not factorizable.

[Paws1t1veEV]

Anoncoin really needs a new exchange:


*****

Cryptsy: The new verification process is disturbing and not in alignment with ANC goals. I need to submit a new ticket every time I use this site.

BTC38: Withdrawals are slow and I need to submit lots of tickets. It's clumsy to use for non Chinese speakers.

Coins-e: No volume, but I rarely have problems

Vircurex:No volume and has a problem with the 4 buy order at .00201400 causing errors when trying to fill.

Coinex: Dead

Bleutrade: New/no volume.


Given the verification process and impossible use, its a shame that Cryptsy is the premier trading site for ANC.

Is there a better option that I am missing?

-paws

[Gnosis-]

Anoncoin really needs a new exchange:
[...]
Coins-e: No volume, but I rarely have problems

Vircurex:No volume and has a problem with the 4 buy order at .00201400 causing errors when trying to fill.

Coinex: Dead

Bleutrade: New/no volume.
[...]

An exchange having no volume is not a good enough reason to start a new exchange, because the new exchange will also have no volume.  You fix the "no volume" problem by bringing a lot of buyers and sellers together.

Now if the exchange has no volume because it is broken or a scam, that's a different matter.

[WDL]

ANC/BTC in English version is alive on btc38.com now.  http://www.btc38.com/trade_en.html?mk_type=btc&btc38_trade_coin_name=anc
Enjoy yourself of trading,you don't need to worry about the withdrawal  issue,the safety of  funds is guaranteed by 100% fund reserve.

[drAGon925]

ANC/BTC in English version is alive on btc38.com now.  http://www.btc38.com/trade_en.html?mk_type=btc&btc38_trade_coin_name=anc
Enjoy yourself of trading,you don't need to worry about the withdrawal  issue,the safety of  funds is guaranteed by 100% fund reserve.

+1 

Very good!  Thanks for your effort!

[gunzeon]

ANC/BTC in English version is alive on btc38.com now.  http://www.btc38.com/trade_en.html?mk_type=btc&btc38_trade_coin_name=anc
Enjoy yourself of trading,you don't need to worry about the withdrawal  issue,the safety of  funds is guaranteed by 100% fund reserve.

btc38 looks great but i do not Facebook - what are my options ?