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Author Topic: Offline Wallet creation (how?)  (Read 576 times)
Berndinox
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October 16, 2017, 11:34:39 AM
 #1

Hy,

atm i do learn alot about Bitcoin and the underlying blockchain technologoy.

What i do not understand how a offline wallet is generated. Ok, of course i have read the basic howtos, so in generell i know how it is done, but i do miss some points.
Cause it is offline, how is it guaranteed noone else is generating the same offline address as my offline wallet?
I have no chance to check if that address was ever or not, if the computer i do use to create that wallett priv key is offline.

Maybesome can examine how that problem is solved or handled?

Thanks in advance and excuse my english..
BR Bernd
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mocacinno
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October 16, 2017, 11:38:51 AM
 #2

Hy,

atm i do learn alot about Bitcoin and the underlying blockchain technologoy.

What i do not understand how a offline wallet is generated. Ok, of course i have read the basic howtos, so in generell i know how it is done, but i do miss some points.
Cause it is offline, how is it guaranteed noone else is generating the same offline address as my offline wallet?
I have no chance to check if that address was ever or not, if the computer i do use to create that wallett priv key is offline.

Maybesome can examine how that problem is solved or handled?

Thanks in advance and excuse my english..
BR Bernd


There are dozens of threads like this one:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=64413
or
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1611882

Just search for "key collision" in the search Wink

But, in short, it's possible that 2 people generate exactly the same private key, but if the RNG that is being used isn't flawed, chances are astronomically small... Like: "it isn't going to happen in a million years"

Berndinox
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October 16, 2017, 11:47:28 AM
 #3

Hy, thanks for the fast response, used the wrong phrases to search for that... Smiley
AGD
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October 16, 2017, 06:37:39 PM
 #4

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Cold_storage

Bitcoin is not a bubble, it's the pin!
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DannyHamilton
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October 16, 2017, 07:55:43 PM
 #5

Cause it is offline, how is it guaranteed noone else is generating the same offline address as my offline wallet?

The exact same way as it is done if the wallet is online.

I have no chance to check if that address was ever or not, if the computer i do use to create that wallett priv key is offline.

Bitcoin wallets do not "check if that address was ever or not".  They just generate a REALLY VERY EXTREMELY random number in a REALLY VERY EXTREMELY big range.

The range that the random number is selected from is SO big, that the odds of someone else choosing that exact same random number is effectively 0.

Ok, new data, will recalc everything:

  • probability of getting struck by lightning in any given year: 1/280000.
  • probability of taking a shit at any given point in time: 1/(60*24) = 1/1440 (assuming you take a crap every day and the actual process takes 1 minute)
  • probability of getting struck by lightning while taking a crap in any given year: 1/(280000*1440) = 1/1.47E11 = 2.48E-9
  • probability of taking a crap while being in a situation where being struck by lightning can actually occur = 1/1440 = 0.25 = 1.74E-4
  • probability of finding a collision: 1E-65
  • getting hit by lightning while taking a crap for how many years in a row is equally probable as finding a collision: log(1E-65) / log(1.74E-4) = 17.3

is my math roughly correct now?

If so, I can say: "Finding a collision is about as likely as being struck by lightning while taking a crap every year for 17 years in a row".

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October 16, 2017, 09:38:44 PM
 #6

As stated above, the address is suitably long that collisions are extremely unlikely so whether you're online or offline you just need to generate that number using a highly random method and you can rest assured that it will be unique
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October 17, 2017, 08:05:53 PM
 #7

Cause it is offline, how is it guaranteed noone else is generating the same offline address as my offline wallet?

The exact same way as it is done if the wallet is online.

I have no chance to check if that address was ever or not, if the computer i do use to create that wallett priv key is offline.

Bitcoin wallets do not "check if that address was ever or not".  They just generate a REALLY VERY EXTREMELY random number in a REALLY VERY EXTREMELY big range.

The range that the random number is selected from is SO big, that the odds of someone else choosing that exact same random number is effectively 0.

Ok, new data, will recalc everything:

  • probability of getting struck by lightning in any given year: 1/280000.
  • probability of taking a shit at any given point in time: 1/(60*24) = 1/1440 (assuming you take a crap every day and the actual process takes 1 minute)
  • probability of getting struck by lightning while taking a crap in any given year: 1/(280000*1440) = 1/1.47E11 = 2.48E-9
  • probability of taking a crap while being in a situation where being struck by lightning can actually occur = 1/1440 = 0.25 = 1.74E-4
  • probability of finding a collision: 1E-65
  • getting hit by lightning while taking a crap for how many years in a row is equally probable as finding a collision: log(1E-65) / log(1.74E-4) = 17.3

is my math roughly correct now?

If so, I can say: "Finding a collision is about as likely as being struck by lightning while taking a crap every year for 17 years in a row".
I remember one man created thread here and was claiming that he randomly generated adress where there was 1 bitcoin and was asking if using that 1 bitcoin would be stoling (curious).
Don't know if that's really right or not (believe it isn't) but in reality while 0.00001% chance exist, this means that percent can be released at any time, even in some seconds and not in some million years.

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DannyHamilton
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October 17, 2017, 08:14:33 PM
 #8

"Finding a collision is about as likely as being struck by lightning while taking a crap every year for 17 years in a row".
while 0.00001% chance exist, this means that percent can be released at any time, even in some seconds and not in some million years.

And how about when 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000007% chance exists?

Please let me know when you have been "struck by lightning while taking a crap every year for 17 years in a row".


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October 18, 2017, 10:04:34 PM
 #9

"Finding a collision is about as likely as being struck by lightning while taking a crap every year for 17 years in a row".
while 0.00001% chance exist, this means that percent can be released at any time, even in some seconds and not in some million years.

And how about when 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000007% chance exists?

Please let me know when you have been "struck by lightning while taking a crap every year for 17 years in a row".


You can add one more 0 to your number but that still means that chance exists. The range that random number is selected is big but that doesn't means someone can't get that exact same number. There is possibility to create randomly the wallet which you own but on math it's something that will happen but in extremely large number of years but also it can randomly happen anytime, am I wrong?
Imagine you are looling for 1 specific letter from 100000 one but you find that letter on your first try, sounds unbelievable but possible.

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October 19, 2017, 12:47:57 AM
 #10

The first thing it does is generate your private key.

I assume you mean seed?

From there there are an infinite number of public keys u can use to spend and receive.

A very VERY big number, but not infinite.

Each of those public keys has it's own unique private key.

RSA is pretty solid as an encryption program and that's basically what you're using in BTC.

Bitcoin does NOT use RSA at all, for anything.  There is no RSA in Bitcoin.

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October 19, 2017, 03:34:01 AM
 #11

Dude are u high?

Nope.

Flaming me when u don't know jack shit.

More than you apparently.  Please don't give advice or answer questions in the "Technical Discussion" part of this forum until you've learned more about how bitcoin actually works.

BTC is a crypto-currency. Get it CRYPTO, short for cryptography.

You got that much right.

RSA is the most widely used algorithms for encoding messages

But is NOT the algorithm used by Bitcoin.  There are other algorithms.  Are you aware of that?

and it generates a private key from a seed supplied by the user.

No.  That's not how RSA works.

It then generates key pairs just like BTC.

Not "just like BTC".

RSA security is built on the difficulty of factoring large prime numbers.

Bitcoin (ECDSA) security is built on the difficulty of computing the discrete logarithm.

The process of generating public keys is completely different.

Making sense?

You tell me.  You're the one that seems to be confused.

RSA uses a public and private key just like BTC.  I never said it USED RSA i said it uses RSA algorithms.

And I'm telling you that is doesn't use any RSA algorithms at all.
 
Don't flame me becuase I can almost guarantee that I know a hell of a lot more than u do about machines.

Perhaps you do.  Perhaps you don't.

Once thing is clear.  You don't know much about Bitcoin, and you don't understand cryptography very well at all.

I can program them, manage data centers, manage ERA back ends, etc et all.

Good luck with that.

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October 19, 2017, 03:56:06 AM
 #12

Dude are u high?

Nope.

Flaming me when u don't know jack shit.

More than you apparently.  Please don't give advice or answer questions in the "Technical Discussion" part of this forum until you've learned more about how bitcoin actually works.

BTC is a crypto-currency. Get it CRYPTO, short for cryptography.

You got that much right.

RSA is the most widely used algorithms for encoding messages

But is NOT the algorithm used by Bitcoin.  There are other algorithms.  Are you aware of that?

and it generates a private key from a seed supplied by the user.

No.  That's not how RSA works.

It then generates key pairs just like BTC.

Not "just like BTC".

RSA security is built on the difficulty of factoring large prime numbers.

Bitcoin (ECDSA) security is built on the difficulty of computing the discrete logarithm.

The process of generating public keys is completely different.

Making sense?

You tell me.  You're the one that seems to be confused.

RSA uses a public and private key just like BTC.  I never said it USED RSA i said it uses RSA algorithms.

And I'm telling you that is doesn't use any RSA algorithms at all.
 
Don't flame me becuase I can almost guarantee that I know a hell of a lot more than u do about machines.

Perhaps you do.  Perhaps you don't.

Once thing is clear.  You don't know much about Bitcoin, and you don't understand cryptography very well at all.

I can program them, manage data centers, manage ERA back ends, etc et all.

Good luck with that.

Danny, your patience is impressive. Chapeau.

Bitcoin is not a bubble, it's the pin!
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