What has caused the latest drop > 114USD ( Now 107)

[gambitv]

Any ideas? MtGox has some big sell orders sitting in the queue ( big by my thinking anyway ).
Update No. 2  _{( Mambo No. 5 )}  http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/1fup9j/friday_june_7_2013/ seems to have a very good discussion on it.

[1715215585]

1715215585

[tutkarz]

someone wants to buy more cheap?

[worldinacoin]

It is now $112, really drop too fast too far I guess.

[tutkarz]

It is now $112, really drop too fast too far I guess.

nothing new

[gambitv]

This can't of done it. http://www.coindesk.com/exponential-leap-in-bitcoin-hash-rates/

I suspect it is the same people manipulating the market when the 20k were dumped earlier on the week.

Seems we are still in cowboy land on e-exchanges with easy manipulation by the big players.

[tutkarz]

This can't of done it. http://www.coindesk.com/exponential-leap-in-bitcoin-hash-rates/

I suspect it is the same people manipulating the market when the 20k were dumped earlier on the week.

Seems we are still in cowboy land on e-exchanges with easy manipulation by the big players.

but this should actually rise the price because it means more people are interested in bitcoin and more are investing in it. amount generated is the same regardless of hash power.

[navidos]

This huge of drop from last week Fridays or Saturday till now.

What is the main reason?

More intrests will effects on growth not drop.

Strange incidents

[edd]

I have a theory.

At the San Jose Conference, some very interesting ideas and partnerships sprang into being. One or more start-ups may be moving from the "idea" phase to the "execution" phase and require capital that necessitates exchanging some bitcoins for more conventional currencies.

[navidos]

Shouldn't be like this.

More demands will increase the price. Also you shouldn't speculate your BTC that much.

We should help the market.

[OhShei8e]

Any ideas?

Come on, we are in the middle of a bubble and you ask for reasons why it is going down again?

At the beginning of the year no one would have believed that we reach the old $ 31 mark already this year and where are we now?

I am quite sure that we have a slow descent into the $ 40-50 zone in front of us. From there we go either further down or up slowly. Nevertheless, the price would have multiplied compared to last year. A very good result, which gives hope for new highs in the coming years.

Old Hands can only rejoice about this little damper, because Bitcoin community increasingly turns into a fucking cult. This sucks. Now is the time to think about short sales OR further supplementation of money to buy in the death zone.  

Nevertheless, you should never sell all coins. Because it can also come out quite differently. And for that it need no reason too. It is simply the market.

[OhShei8e]

We should help the market.

Help yourself to help the market.

[yolo2222]

We should help the market.

Help yourself to help the market.

[ninjaboon]

I see a lot of big sells on Fridays. Might be due to weekday traders cashing out for weekend shopping. 

[navidos]

We should help the market.

Help yourself to help the market.

Did you help yourself?

Be careful kid.

[tokeweed]

Any ideas?

Come on, we are in the middle of a bubble and you ask for reasons why it is going down again?

At the beginning of the year no one would have believed that we reach the old $ 31 mark already this year and where are we now?

I am quite sure that we have a slow descent into the $ 40-50 zone in front of us. From there we go either further down or up slowly. Nevertheless, the price would have multiplied compared to last year. A very good result, which gives hope to new highs in the coming years.

Old Hands can only rejoice about this little damper, because Bitcoin community increasingly turns into a fucking cult. This sucks. Now is the time to think about short sales OR further supplementation of money to buy in the death zone.  

Nevertheless, you should never sell all coins. Because it can also come out quite differently. And for that it need no reason too. It is simply the market.

this +100

(i was going to post something. but this guy already said it all. )

[tokeweed]

if you got a friend who has a lot of btc, it would be a good idea to borrow some, sell it and buy it back at lower prices and give it back to him.

this could be just a start of a down trend

[reactor]

It could hit 50 overnight and be at 140 by the end of the weekend, right now the BTC market is a cinch to manipulate if you have enough starting funds.  If you consider things like a venture hedge fund holding 80k BTC, the price right now and the price in five minutes bear no resemblance other than luck and inaction.

[tokeweed]

Any ideas?

Come on, we are in the middle of a bubble and you ask for reasons why it is going down again?

At the beginning of the year no one would have believed that we reach the old $ 31 mark already this year and where are we now?

I am quite sure that we have a slow descent into the $ 40-50 zone in front of us. From there we go either further down or up slowly. Nevertheless, the price would have multiplied compared to last year. A very good result, which gives hope to new highs in the coming years.

Old Hands can only rejoice about this little damper, because Bitcoin community increasingly turns into a fucking cult. This sucks. Now is the time to think about short sales OR further supplementation of money to buy in the death zone.  

Nevertheless, you should never sell all coins. Because it can also come out quite differently. And for that it need no reason too. It is simply the market.

Which is it? Are you "quite sure that we have a slow descent" to $50; or do you admit that "it can also come out quite differently?" Too many people think they have a crystal ball.

look at what is happening right now. price is dropping with a spike in volume. this indicates a sell down. so yes as of now btc is in a "slow descent". as to where it will be, who knows...  it could be 50, 30 or even 10. no one can predict these things accurately 100%. even the experts.

but the good news  is (if you're long btc) the trend could reverse.  when?  again who knows, hopefully tomorrow. but if you're a trader, it would be a good idea to go short. just have a stoploss in case the trend reverses. but as of now, trend is down.

[gambitv]

Other thread posted algorithmic-trading-for-dummies link giving a general overview of the share market, and touches on bitcoin as well.

So no real surprise then. This is just what it is.

Time to go transfer some cash and buy I guess.

[tokeweed]

Any ideas?

Come on, we are in the middle of a bubble and you ask for reasons why it is going down again?

At the beginning of the year no one would have believed that we reach the old $ 31 mark already this year and where are we now?

I am quite sure that we have a slow descent into the $ 40-50 zone in front of us. From there we go either further down or up slowly. Nevertheless, the price would have multiplied compared to last year. A very good result, which gives hope to new highs in the coming years.

Old Hands can only rejoice about this little damper, because Bitcoin community increasingly turns into a fucking cult. This sucks. Now is the time to think about short sales OR further supplementation of money to buy in the death zone.  

Nevertheless, you should never sell all coins. Because it can also come out quite differently. And for that it need no reason too. It is simply the market.

Which is it? Are you "quite sure that we have a slow descent" to $50; or do you admit that "it can also come out quite differently?" Too many people think they have a crystal ball.

look at what is happening right now. price is dropping with a spike in volume. this indicates a sell down. so yes as of now btc is in a "slow descent". as to where it will be, who knows...  it could be 50, 30 or even 10. no one can predict these things accurately 100%. even the experts.

but the good news  is (if you're long btc) the trend could reverse.  when?  again who knows, hopefully tomorrow. but if you're a trader, it would be a good idea to go short. just have a stoploss in case the trend reverses. but as of now, trend is down.

You're an idiot.

lol you mad?

your btc is going down in price right now. deal with it. where it lands is anyone's guess.  

anyone know when coinsetter is rolling out their service?

[tokeweed]

oh and valence. imagine if btc breaks down below 100 (the psychological barrier). do you think everyone will keep holding on? 

and for the people buying right now believing it is 'cheap' right now but then finds out it keeps going down. they'd go ape shit and click that sell button making it go down further.

now, what you gonna do?  that's the question.

[kelsey]

Maybe people using ripple to buy BTC with XRP's which doesn't require (and often person to person from hoarded investment BTC) then offloading to Mt Gox for USD.

[freedomno1]

Market manipulation
In reality probably development funding and difficulty adjustments

[tokeweed]

sunday bloody sunday.

102 at mt.gox right now. almost at the 100 psychological barrier.

let's if it breaks.

[johnwhitestar]

I think that when the first ASICS went online they took a huge share of net hashpower and was mining a lot of BTC. So they was hoarding a lot of them, creating a vacuum on the market, helped by the halving. That is the reason of the 226 spike.
But as much new ASICS are going online the competition between the ASICS owners become more and more strong and the shares of the total net hashpower are getting thiner for each of the ASCIS owner.
But they need to cover their investments and expenses, so they are cashing out as soon as they can and some of the early ASCICS owners are doing the same with a part of BTC hoarded previously, because they can't be sure they will get the same price soon.
That is the reason why the price is going down right now, from my point of view.

[suryc]

Well, it dipped below 100 momentarily.

Fundamentally, I don't see why the price should go down too much. I would think that as Difficulty increases, the value of a BTC would also increase because the cost of mining new coins has increased (cost in terms of hardware anyway).

[aaaxn]

Well, it dipped below 100 momentarily.

Fundamentally, I don't see why the price should go down too much. I would think that as Difficulty increases, the value of a BTC would also increase because the cost of mining new coins has increased (cost in terms of hardware anyway).

I think it is actually other way around now. Dynamic price increases made mining so profitable that miners could just hoard most mined bitcoins. Now profit margin are much thinner and miners will need to sell most of mined bitcoins and that means more than 3000 new bitcoin landing on market every day. Funny thing is that falling prices self-reinforces this effect.

[bigdude]

$98 ... interesting

[Nik1ab]

Stupid panic sellers 

[suryc]

Well, it dipped below 100 momentarily.

Fundamentally, I don't see why the price should go down too much. I would think that as Difficulty increases, the value of a BTC would also increase because the cost of mining new coins has increased (cost in terms of hardware anyway).

I think it is actually other way around now. Dynamic price increases made mining so profitable that miners could just hoard most mined bitcoins. Now profit margin are much thinner and miners will need to sell most of mined bitcoins and that means more than 3000 new bitcoin landing on market every day. Funny thing is that falling prices self-reinforces this effect.

That is actually a good point. Perhaps as difficulty increases and profit margins are thinner a larger portion of mined coins will go into actual circulation which lower price. I think that will take more time to happen though. Don't think we can attribute this price drop to that kind of behavior.

Also, in general the volume of bitcoin/fiat transactions is low -- too low to have a stable exchange rate.  There are 11 million btc existing and as long as the 24-hour btc/fiat volume is so low (usually much less than 1% of that), volatility is going to be a problem. It does not take much to manipulate and move the exchange rate.

[tokeweed]

The drop could be because the heart and soul of Bitcoin (SHA-2) is owned (made) by NSA. Just look at all the news about PRISM.
The 100 psychological barrier broke, where will it bottom out?

that's anyone's guess. panic selling will start soon after this.

[suryc]

For a professional trader, is there any good way to short btc?
Are there any exchanges that have reliable put/call options contracts?

I'm not contemplating doing this myself, just curious how much sophistication there is in the various bitcoin/fiat exchange platforms.

[tokeweed]

Well, it dipped below 100 momentarily.

Fundamentally, I don't see why the price should go down too much. I would think that as Difficulty increases, the value of a BTC would also increase because the cost of mining new coins has increased (cost in terms of hardware anyway).

there billion dollar companies' stock prices that fundamentally shouldn't go down but they just do. that's the market.

[tokeweed]

For a professional trader, is there any good way to short btc?
Are there any exchanges that have reliable put/call options contracts?

I'm not contemplating doing this myself, just curious how much sophistication there is in the various bitcoin/fiat exchange platforms.

i'm not a pro but the only way is to borrow btc. sell it. then buy back at lower prices then give them back to the guy who loaned it to you.

there's coinsetter (leveraged trading, good for this kind of thing), but they are in private beta i think.

[tokeweed]

watch out for may 5, 2013 low at mt.gox. that's at 79. see if that breaks down.  if it does, start looking at 4/16/2013 low. that's at 50.01 at mt.gox.

such a good market for short sellers right now.

[suryc]

For a professional trader, is there any good way to short btc?
Are there any exchanges that have reliable put/call options contracts?

I'm not contemplating doing this myself, just curious how much sophistication there is in the various bitcoin/fiat exchange platforms.

i'm not a pro but the only way is to borrow btc. sell it. then buy back at lower prices then give them back to the guy who loaned it to you.

there's coinsetter (leveraged trading, good for this kind of thing), but they are in private beta i think.

I've heard talk of futures/options contracts and such, but never seen it implemented anywhere. Anybody know anything about that?

[01BTC10]

To short there is :

https://bitfinex.com/exchange
https://icbit.se

Also CFD trading with fiat:

http://www.plus500.com/?id=67311&pl=1

I'm short since 2 weeks. Notbad.

[tokeweed]

For a professional trader, is there any good way to short btc?
Are there any exchanges that have reliable put/call options contracts?

I'm not contemplating doing this myself, just curious how much sophistication there is in the various bitcoin/fiat exchange platforms.

i'm not a pro but the only way is to borrow btc. sell it. then buy back at lower prices then give them back to the guy who loaned it to you.

there's coinsetter (leveraged trading, good for this kind of thing), but they are in private beta i think.

I've heard talk of futures/options contracts and such, but never seen it implemented anywhere. Anybody know anything about that?

there's btc binary options on some forex trading sites. but those are a scam. you'd be losing money in the longterm playing with those.

[tokeweed]

To short there is :

https://bitfinex.com/exchange
https://icbit.se

Also CFD trading with fiat:

http://www.plus500.com/?id=67311&pl=1

I'm short since 2 weeks. Notbad.

do those sites have leveraged trading?

[01BTC10]

To short there is :

https://bitfinex.com/exchange
https://icbit.se

Also CFD trading with fiat:

http://www.plus500.com/?id=67311&pl=1

I'm short since 2 weeks. Notbad.

do those sites have leveraged trading?

I use bitfinex with 2.5:1 leverage and plus500 with 5:1 leverage.

[gambitv]

Getting interesting now. We have crashed through 94. I read someone bleating on about it only really being worth 8USD per coin.

Getting out the popcorn, time to sit back and see where it goes.

[tokeweed]

Getting interesting now. We have crashed through 94. I read someone bleating on about it only really being worth 8USD per coin.

Getting out the popcorn, time to sit back and see where it goes.

now that guy is just creating a doom and gloom scenario. no one really knows where this will go, when it'll stop.  all you can do is short sell, enjoy the ride and wait for the trend to reverse.

[Nik1ab]

It will rise again  Time to buy some ultra cheap coins 

[tokeweed]

an unlikely scenario but...  what if btc go down to single digit levels.

LOL WINKLEVOSS TWINS!!!

[Eastwind]

Maybe the price will drop to the point that GPU miner will make to profit due to the electricity price. For me, it is $68.

[tokeweed]

interesting...  how much would the price of btc will that be?

[suryc]

an unlikely scenario but...  what if btc go down to single digit levels.

LOL WINKLEVOSS TWINS!!!

What if Zuckerberg orchestrates a drop like that just to make the Winklevoss twins look bad?

[freedomno1]

an unlikely scenario but...  what if btc go down to single digit levels.

LOL WINKLEVOSS TWINS!!!

What if Zuckerberg orchestrates a drop like that just to make the Winklevoss twins look bad?

Gets more popcorn out and brings some pizza

[tokeweed]

an unlikely scenario but...  what if btc go down to single digit levels.

LOL WINKLEVOSS TWINS!!!

What if Zuckerberg orchestrates a drop like that just to make the Winklevoss twins look bad?

Gets more popcorn out and brings some pizza

LOOOL

[tokeweed]

This can't of done it. http://www.coindesk.com/exponential-leap-in-bitcoin-hash-rates/

I suspect it is the same people manipulating the market when the 20k were dumped earlier on the week.

Seems we are still in cowboy land on e-exchanges with easy manipulation by the big players.

are you really that naive that manipulation doesnt happen in, say, the new york stock exchange?

this is nothing new in markets. prices go up, prices go down. either way, you can profit. what sucks is when it is going sideways.

[gambitv]

Yes I am that naive, I am a computer programmer who has never dabbled in stocks or money markets.

Found this reddit post from someone who appears to know about trading. Lucky beggar got in at 10USD.

[Nik1ab]

These panic selles seem to have no Idea that Bitcoin was already down at ~60$ before lol 

[tokeweed]

These panic selles seem to have no Idea that Bitcoin was already down at ~60$ before lol 

yup and it was at 6 before that. stupid panic sellers...   

[KSV]

These panic selles seem to have no Idea that Bitcoin was already down at ~60$ before lol 

hahaha true

[tokeweed]

These panic selles seem to have no Idea that Bitcoin was already down at ~60$ before lol 

hahaha true

hihihi feel better now? hihihihi

[tokeweed]

but in all seriousness, is this 2011 all over again?

[tiberiandusk]

Yes I am that naive, I am a computer programmer who has never dabbled in stocks or money markets.

Found this reddit post from someone who appears to know about trading. Lucky beggar got in at 10USD.

They were $0.40 when I started.

[raze]

Decided to buy my first Bitcoin the other day which cost me $126AUD+fees. This is crap. I'll probably just try to buy another one or two if the price reaches $70 to even out the losses.

[Moebius327]

You think we will hit $50 today?

[kost]

That's just annual ASICMINER electricity bill, so they have to sell some BTCs  

[Aggrophobia]

kncminer & bitfury cashout

[Loozik]

Any ideas?

We'll know next week. Monday is a good day for news releases.

Maybe an exchange was shut down, maybe SEPA froze operations with European exchanges and money sent by people are in limbo, maybe the Bitcoin Foundation started to talk to regulators. Only the whales know.

Or maybe it is just a normal market thing.

[donjonson]

Maybe the price will drop to the point that GPU miner will make to profit due to the electricity price. For me, it is $68.

Could it be that BTC price adjusts in the long-term to the BTC_production_cost + reasonable_production_profit?

[bigdude]

an unlikely scenario but...  what if btc go down to single digit levels.

LOL WINKLEVOSS TWINS!!!

What if Zuckerberg orchestrates a drop like that just to make the Winklevoss twins look bad?

I lol'd ... how funny would that be

[tokeweed]

Any ideas?

We'll know next week. Monday is a good day for news releases.

Maybe an exchange was shut down, maybe SEPA froze operations with European exchanges and money sent by people are in limbo, maybe the Bitcoin Foundation started to talk to regulators. Only the whales know.

Or maybe it is just a normal market thing.

yup!  there's really nothing to get worry about. this downtrend is an opportunity to profit too.

[zachcope]

Maybe the price will drop to the point that GPU miner will make to profit due to the electricity price. For me, it is $68.

Could it be that BTC price adjusts in the long-term to the BTC_production_cost + reasonable_production_profit?

It's the other way round. Bitcoin exchange price is determined by demand (utility as medium of exchange and deflationary store of value). Supply is regulated by the difficulty formula and miner's decisions dependant on price.

[stslimited]

just look at transaction fees accompanying the block reward to see that the number of transactions are not growing in proportion with the number of new coins being generated

more coins than currently necessary equal lower price

also liquidity has gone to shit for the time being, anyone can drop the price of bitcoins by a few bucks

[gambitv]

...and the cycle repeats. Just a bit early today that's all.

[tokeweed]

but in all seriousness, is this 2011 all over again?

what do you guys think right now?  it could be, right?

[Nik1ab]

Not in my oppinion.