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Author Topic: Is "money laundering" really that big of a deal?  (Read 5095 times)
porticol
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June 06, 2013, 10:43:37 PM
 #81

I want to move $20 million to my partner in crime overseas. I can't wire him $1 million without someone seeing that: what I can do, is send him 2000 laptops and charge him a dollar per laptop. He now has an invoice showing he's paid for these laptops, and he can sell the laptops at a reduced price to move them quickly and now has his $1 million. He has also now undercut every other laptop seller in his marketplace. This may put legitimate businesses out of business.
Same goes for any other business propped up by illegitimate funds. They compete with legitimate businesses without valid business models. Depending on the amount of laundering or the size of the community, it can do huge damage.

Doesn't sound like there would be any problem or disruption if moving the money in the first place was legal.


If it were legal, then we're no longer talking about money laundering.

If we're talking about should anyone be able to move their proceeds of crime without any observation, I explained why I disagreed with that. Do I agree with all the laws which they pursue it for? No.

If people are worried about the government cracking down on them, IMHO it's not through anti-money laundering (AML) legislation. They don't get enough information. The $10k reporting limit only applies to cash: wires are not reported. The other information they receive is if a set of transactions go through the bank's entire compliance department and the bank has considerable evidence to believe the transactions to actually be proceeds of a crime (drug dealing, bribery, tax evasion, whatever). Then they are sent to the regulator. This is a tiny fraction of transactions that go through: in the ballpark of 0.001%. The government sees these transactions and no others, unless they're conducting an investigation into a crime. This transaction monitoring process alone costs some banks up to $500 million a year, and they do not want to send through any more than they have to, because each one adds to that number.

FATCA is the government turning every foreign bank into a proxy for the IRS. IMHO that's the concerning legislation.
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June 07, 2013, 10:00:24 AM
 #82

"money laundering" is an artificial, made-up crime.
All crimes are.

Surely you mean non-violent ones?
Hopefully he does.
I mean all crimes. Even the violent crimes weren't crimes until someone(s) decided they are.

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June 07, 2013, 10:44:27 AM
 #83

"money laundering" is an artificial, made-up crime.
All crimes are.

Surely you mean non-violent ones?
Hopefully he does.
I mean all crimes. Even the violent crimes weren't crimes until someone(s) decided they are.

I doubt that even archaic hominins, before modern humans evolved, would kill each other with impunity. There has to be some progress in a million years!

Regarding "money laundering". That is effectively victimless. The crime that needs to be punished is the one that obtained the money being laundered. If there was no crime then the allegation of laundering is just governments trying to micro-manage citizens lives.

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June 07, 2013, 01:25:36 PM
 #84

"money laundering" is an artificial, made-up crime.
All crimes are.

Surely you mean non-violent ones?
Hopefully he does.
I mean all crimes. Even the violent crimes weren't crimes until someone(s) decided they are.

I doubt that even archaic hominins, before modern humans evolved, would kill each other with impunity. There has to be some progress in a million years!

Regarding "money laundering". That is effectively victimless. The crime that needs to be punished is the one that obtained the money being laundered. If there was no crime then the allegation of laundering is just governments trying to micro-manage citizens lives.


Name one way a criminal could obtain money which is so evil that he MUST be punished, because the way I see it selling weapons illegally isn't bad because people want to defend themselves (especially from their evil, irresponsible governments), selling drugs is even more harmless, who are you to decide what a person ought to put in his body? Pharmaceutical companies sell drugs like Ritalin to children, image a drug pusher giving some LSD or MDMA to a 8 year old child, surely he would be put into prison for all eternity yet when there is money for the government to be made off it, it suddenly becomes praiseworthy.








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porticol
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June 07, 2013, 01:42:15 PM
 #85


Name one way a criminal could obtain money which is so evil that he MUST be punished

Human trafficking/slavery
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June 07, 2013, 03:05:16 PM
 #86

"money laundering" is an artificial, made-up crime.
All crimes are.

Surely you mean non-violent ones?
Hopefully he does.
I mean all crimes. Even the violent crimes weren't crimes until someone(s) decided they are.

I doubt that even archaic hominins, before modern humans evolved, would kill each other with impunity. There has to be some progress in a million years!
Surely some of them did. People still kill each other as do many other animals.

Of course at some point some tribe members realized killing each other doesn't benefit the tribe and instated rules against it. But even if a rule/law is beneficial for the society, it's still artificial and made-up.

virtualmaster
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June 07, 2013, 03:29:01 PM
 #87


Surely some of them did. People still kill each other as do many other animals.

Of course at some point some tribe members realized killing each other doesn't benefit the tribe and instated rules against it. But even if a rule/law is beneficial for the society, it's still artificial and made-up.
I think that crimes recognized as such by every human culture and justice system (US Law, European Law, Roman law, Hammurabi's Code of Law, the 10 Commandments of Moses, Islamic Sharia, Aztec Justice and other more ancient justice systems) can be regarded as basic crimes.

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NewLiberty
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June 07, 2013, 03:50:09 PM
 #88

"money laundering" is an artificial, made-up crime.
All crimes are.

Surely you mean non-violent ones?
Hopefully he does.
I mean all crimes. Even the violent crimes weren't crimes until someone(s) decided they are.

By the same measure, so also are words, ideas, and the characterisation of all experiences are artifice.
At the risk of skipping to your punchline, why make this distinction as to whether it is or isn't artificial if all are?

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