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Author Topic: Mining disaster with 34 L3+ ASICs, need some serious help!!!!  (Read 2660 times)
Stubby5000 (OP)
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October 21, 2017, 05:02:01 AM
 #1

I had a horrible thing happen today and I need guidance from someone who understands the technical aspects of an Antminer L3+. I have 9 of these running in my attic and recently I added 25 in the garage. Most of the miners are running a moderate overclock to ~600 MH/sec using about 1000W. Today I came home to find every single miner displaying a flashing red "fault" light and a solid red light on the front of the control board. I have absolutely no idea what happened. It wasn't a particularly hot day. There were no thunderstorms. My wife was home most of the day and reported nothing out of the ordinary and said around noon all the miners in the garage "had a green light." None of the circuit breakers in my house were tripped. I have the miners hooked to various 230v and 120v circuits throughout the house via heavy duty extension cords. I've done the math and none of the circuits should be overloaded. I have a 100 amp sub panel in the attic that usually draws around 85-90 amps. I also have a "whole house" surge protector for the attic service. In fact since I had just brought all the garage miners online the night before, I had my electrician go by this afternoon and measure my whole house and attic-only load: it was about 186 amps whole house (I have 200 amp service) and 92 amps in the attic. When I got home all the other electrical components in the house were working, with one exception: a fan I was using in the garage had stopped working, even though it was plugged into a seemingly working outlet. I switched outlets and it started working again. All the lighted ends of my extension cords looked normal. When I got home today I quickly unplugged all the miners and tripped then reset every breaker in the house. Now only a handful in my row of 25 miners in the garage power up. The ones that don't work have a weak flicker of lights on the back when initially plugged in, then the fault and control board lights come on. The rear fan spins (slowly) but not the exhaust fan. Interestingly, the miners in the attic fared better. Only 4 of them don't power up.

Can someone shed light on just what the FUCK has happened here??? I don't understand it. Is it from the overclocking? But why did everything fail at once? My wife was charging her electric car earlier in the day, did that screw something up? And what was up with that fan in the garage? Finally, most importantly, what do I do now??? I just took delivery of the garage batch a few days ago, but I gather the warranty is void because of the overclocking... Is it the control board that has gone bad? If so BITMAIN sells them for $60 each, which wouldn't be too painful of a fix.

I really need some help with this. Thanks in advance if you have any information that might help.
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Marvell2
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October 21, 2017, 05:36:00 AM
 #2

It could be a heat problem i heard l3 plus is sensitive to temps over 75

I still cant belive you ran 30 l3 in a house lol on 200 amp no less , just get a warehouse or host em bro
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October 21, 2017, 08:44:36 AM
Last edit: October 21, 2017, 08:54:47 AM by smoolae
 #3

Maybe You can get some help from here https://bitmainhelp.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/220872007-Possible-problems-for-Antminer-Troubleshooting-for-S7-S9-L3-

Perhaps something happened with some PSUs (don't know how)? You could try taking a PSU from a working L3 and connect it to the one(s) that is(are) not working. If You have a multimeter in Your household, You could test the voltages from the PSU (the output should be between 11.6-13V).

Hope everything works out for You! Smiley

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October 21, 2017, 09:10:15 AM
 #4

Clearly can't just be coming from the machines, and the only thing in common they have is the electric supply, so before you look forward into a hardware problem might be a good idea to control your house first.
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October 21, 2017, 09:33:46 AM
 #5

Also, how many amps does the electric car being charged pull?
I saw some articles that gave me numbers 220-240V and 16-or 32-Amps for home charging points. I do not know how the specs of Your charging point, but if it is rated up to 240V 32Amps for charging, then it was some mad wattage being used with all the L3+'s.

If You plug the garage fan in the old outlet (where it was originally) does it work normally?

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October 21, 2017, 02:35:49 PM
 #6

So you have 200 amp service to the house. You also have 100 amp service to the attic. First, if that 100 amps to the attic is on a sub panel you probably only have 200 amps. If it is on a separate meter then you probably have 300 amps. Most circuits in a house are either 15 or 20 amp circuits. Each circuit generally has multiple outlets. Regardless of the number of outlets each 15amp circuit will supply a max output of 1800 watts. so on a 15amp circuit you could operate 2 L3+ at 800watts each. You would really be pushing it here as that is about 90% of the rated power output of that circuit. On a 20 amp circuit you could put 3 in theory but that would a 100% capacity use of that circuit so 2 is probably the limit. Remember, this is per Circuit, Not Outlet! So no matter how many outlets you have you must abide by this limit per circuit. of course, putting this many devices on each circuit assumes you will not turn on a light, run the fridge or dishwasher, you know, use any of the stuff we know you (and more particularly your wife who is a normal and rational human being, she did not sign up for your sudden mining fetish) are using throughout the day. If you go out to your panel and simply count the breakers you will soon see that running 35 (requires 18 separate 15-20 amp breakers )of these machines on your household electric would be an unlikely proposition in theory and nearly impossible in practice. I think plugging in the electric car ( not your wifes fault, she lives there remember) was the 50Lbs bag of cement that broke the Camels back. Also, without seeing your electric service in person I have a sneaking suspicion that either your electrician does not understand the draw of these units or he/she is not competent for the task. For 35 units you need a dedicated electric service panel and a lot juice. 28000 watts is about 60% of the max capacity of 200 amp service. but you must have the circuits to support the load.
I hope I am wrong but I think you only option is to return the non-working units for service and pay bitmain to replace the boards.
Post a pic of your meter and electrical panels and I am sure we could get you a definitive answer.

Sorry this happened to you, I hope I am wrong.
Stubby5000 (OP)
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October 21, 2017, 09:53:02 PM
 #7

Thanks for the answers. The miners in the garage were a temporary proposition, for two weeks at the most. I'm aware of what you said about the way electrical circuits work. Here are some details of my setup:
The attic does not have a separate meter (I'm told this is not legal where I live). Thus the 100 amps going up there are a part of the overall 200 amp service. My permanent attic setup consists of six 230v circuits on which I have the capacity to run four machines. Currently I have only 15 up there. There are a few 120v 20 amp circuits up there for fans and whatnot. I also routed the circuit to my sup pump (which I don't have) to the attic, which is also a 20 amp line. To power the temporary miners in the garage, I ran four heavy duty 230v extension cords to the garage, plus 120v extension cords rated at 20 amp from some of the attic 120v circuits, plus the former sump pump circuit. I never power more than two miners (about 2000 watts total) on a 20 amp 120v circuit, and never more than four on the 230v 20 amp lines. Then I used a number of unused (or lightly used) 20 amp circuits from the rest of the house to power a number of the garage miners. Finally I had my electrician make a custom cord that plugged into my dryer outlet, which is a 30 amp 230v line. His cord split into three NEMA 5-20 230v outlets, which I further split to power two miners each, 6 miners total. All the extension cords and splitters I used were heavy duty and were rated to handle the amps/watts being asked of them.
Even if the wife and her EV pushed the house past the brink, it should have simply tripped the main 200 amp breaker. Why would that have done damage to the miners? That's the point of a breaker.
With regards to heat, I doubt this was the problem. I had all the miners lined up next to each other (which they were made to do, since they have tracks on the side that fit into each other) and they were exhausting directly out the garage door, which was open just a crack. There were also a couple fans blowing across the miners themselves. In the past, before my attic setup was complete, some of those miners/PSUs would get extremely hot. When this happened, either the miner or the PSU would shut down, as it is designed to do. This happened many times. I don't understand why this wouldn't have happened again if heat was the issue.
And by the way, I did an experiment where I took the power cord from a working machine and plugged it into a non working machine. No luck. Then I took the PSU from the working machine and hooked it to the non working machine. No luck still. So whatever the problem, it does seem to be the miner itself. Unfortunately right after this happened I had to leave town for the weekend, so I haven't had a chance to play around any further than that. One thing that gives me hope: when I came home, I unplugged everything and then immediately plugged them back in, and several machines came back to life. I'm hoping when I come home Sunday afternoon, even more will will work again.
I'll keep you all updated. Again, thanks for the input.
Stubby5000 (OP)
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October 21, 2017, 10:06:56 PM
 #8

I wonder if the electric company is throttling my service or something? That would explain why all of them were affected (and the fan too). Maybe some machines are more sensitive to decreased wattage/voltage than others, which explains why now some work and some don't? And that would explain why the lighted ends of the extension cords still work, yet they won't power a miner. It's clear whatever happened was a result of some house electrical problem (again, the fan) but the question is, did it do lasting damage to the miners.
Also, an electrical surge doesn't seem likely since miners in both the attic (behind a whole-house surge protector at the sub-panel) and miners in the garage (no surge protection) were affected. Other than a surge, what sort of electrical derangement can permanently damage a miner?
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October 22, 2017, 01:35:01 AM
 #9

you're gonna have to figure out what is wrong with the miner.  It is power supply, control board or something else?  Once you know that, you can probably backtrack and figure out the issue.

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October 22, 2017, 01:47:13 AM
 #10

I wonder if the electric company is throttling my service or something? That would explain why all of them were affected (and the fan too). Maybe some machines are more sensitive to decreased wattage/voltage than others, which explains why now some work and some don't? And that would explain why the lighted ends of the extension cords still work, yet they won't power a miner. It's clear whatever happened was a result of some house electrical problem (again, the fan) but the question is, did it do lasting damage to the miners.
Also, an electrical surge doesn't seem likely since miners in both the attic (behind a whole-house surge protector at the sub-panel) and miners in the garage (no surge protection) were affected. Other than a surge, what sort of electrical derangement can permanently damage a miner?

yeah take one of the bad miners to a working outlet and see if it works , do this one by one to trouble shoot all of them and separate the bad from the good.

I have a 50 amp surge protection on my panels as well and it has saved my equpiment from brownouts several times

btw you would have got a letter from the power company , if there was an issue and they cant throttle your power , its either on or off unless they come out and fuck with the meter
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October 22, 2017, 02:02:25 AM
 #11

I wonder if the electric company is throttling my service or something? That would explain why all of them were affected (and the fan too). Maybe some machines are more sensitive to decreased wattage/voltage than others, which explains why now some work and some don't? And that would explain why the lighted ends of the extension cords still work, yet they won't power a miner. It's clear whatever happened was a result of some house electrical problem (again, the fan) but the question is, did it do lasting damage to the miners.
Also, an electrical surge doesn't seem likely since miners in both the attic (behind a whole-house surge protector at the sub-panel) and miners in the garage (no surge protection) were affected. Other than a surge, what sort of electrical derangement can permanently damage a miner?

yeah take one of the bad miners to a working outlet and see if it works , do this one by one to trouble shoot all of them and separate the bad from the good.

I have a 50 amp surge protection on my panels as well and it has saved my equpiment from brownouts several times

btw you would have got a letter from the power company , if there was an issue and they cant throttle your power , its either on or off unless they come out and fuck with the meter

 Surge protection doesn't normally protect equipment from brownouts.  What product have you installed?
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October 22, 2017, 02:07:34 AM
 #12

Also, how many amps does the electric car being charged pull?
I saw some articles that gave me numbers 220-240V and 16-or 32-Amps for home charging points. I do not know how the specs of Your charging point, but if it is rated up to 240V 32Amps for charging, then it was some mad wattage being used with all the L3+'s.

If You plug the garage fan in the old outlet (where it was originally) does it work normally?

tesla pulls 80A 240V continuous on their home HPWC charger.
Stubby5000 (OP)
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October 22, 2017, 02:41:19 AM
 #13

Our car charging setup is nothing like that. It's a Volvo XC90 (plug-in hybrid) and we don't even have a 230v charging station. We use the 120v cord that comes with the car and plugs into a regular outlet. It was using a 20 amp circuit that had no miners on it. But again, even if the car charging pushed things past what the house can handle, I don't see why that would damage the miners. It should cause the main breaker to trip and that's it, right? Am I missing something?
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October 22, 2017, 03:27:01 AM
 #14

Why would you overclock these the day you get them? If you had them at 600 MH thats a massive overclock, not a "moderate" one. Sounds like your garage fan going off cause them to overheat...you probably blew the fets on your boards or worse. What temps were inside your garage, and what temps were the boards reporting before this happened?

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October 22, 2017, 03:29:48 AM
 #15

I think your internet is down.  Have you checked your internet connections?

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October 22, 2017, 03:47:31 AM
 #16

 I had a similar situation with a D3 blinking light would not initiate connection would not hash and it turned out to be a issue with power. The miner was not receiving enough power to start up so it would sit in stand by mode. Once it was moved all was working perfectly.
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October 22, 2017, 03:53:58 AM
 #17

I think your internet is down.  Have you checked your internet connections?

Red light on every miners ... Same answer, reboot your router, ethernet switches, mostly you lost internet connection or pool is down.


Stubby5000 (OP)
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October 22, 2017, 04:10:22 AM
 #18

It wasn't hot in the garage at all. The garage door was open just enough for the exhaust fans of the miners to stick out. I had a side door open with multiple fans arranged such that cool air would be pulled from outside and blown across the miners. Miner temps were in the low to mid 70s. I overclocked them the day I got them because I'd had such success overclocking my attic miners (where it's much hotter BTW). For weeks I was running even more aggressive overclocks with no problems at all. I can't imagine overheating as a result of overclocking is the problem. They wouldn't all fail simultaneously like that, plus I know for a fact the miners will shut off before they let themselves overheat. The one fan that went out wouldn't have had much of an effect on airflow.
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October 22, 2017, 04:21:02 AM
 #19

What P/S are you using ?  600MHs is 20% OC from stock speed.
I first burn-in my miners for 30 days for stability check before any OC.
But ATM I run mine at stock speed.

Stubby5000 (OP)
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October 22, 2017, 11:42:10 AM
 #20

I'm using BITMAIN's PSU, the single one (A3) for each miner.
Stubby5000 (OP)
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October 22, 2017, 11:57:41 AM
 #21

You know, the Internet thing makes a bit of sense because the Ethernet switch for the garage is on the same outlet as that fan that stopped working. But would no internet connection really make the miners act this way? Not even boot up and show a red fault light? That doesn't seem right. However, it definitely is the one thing in common with all the garage miners. Even their power supply wasn't the same: some had 230v or 120v from the attic, some had 230v from the dryer circuit, and some had 120v from the rest of the house.
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October 22, 2017, 12:30:57 PM
 #22

It's a bit hard for me to explain this in English but sometimes the mains power grid "looses" the neutral (for example if a power supply line is damaged or a connection comes loose). On European mains power grid this means you can get 400V into some of your connected stuff. I don't know exactly how US mains power work, but I guess it's 3N~ 120V. If you got some of your machines connected to phase 1 coming in to your house and some connected to phase 2, the machines on phase 2 can get fried while machines on phase 1 can survive etc.

Another thing that can happen that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is a router or switch fucking up and sending out mains power on your network cables. This is very rare of course but it can happen. Lots of the residential electrical appliances destroyed during a thunderstorm get fried from network cables and not mains power.

Again, this is hard to explain so I suggest talking to your power company and ask them if they've had any trouble, or ask a local electrician. The solutions for mains power in the US seem completely bizarre to me sometimes.
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October 22, 2017, 02:16:28 PM
 #23

it's been about 24 hours, did you check the miners, internet, power? 
Stubby5000 (OP)
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October 22, 2017, 03:39:09 PM
 #24

I'm going home this afternoon, will report back.
Stubby5000 (OP)
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October 23, 2017, 02:02:07 AM
 #25

Unbelievable! It WAS the Ethernet. What happened was I had a few heavy duty splitters on some of my 120v extension cords, and one of them tripped that happened to contain both that fan and my 24 port Ethernet switch. I didn't notice the switch was off in my panic right before I had to leave town. Up in the attic, a similar but unrelated thing happened where a 120v line went down that contained the switch up there. What a relief!!!! I'm back up and running as I type this. I shuffled some things around so this shouldn't happen again.
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October 23, 2017, 02:05:22 AM
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Unbelievable! It WAS the Ethernet. What happened was I had a few heavy duty splitters on some of my 120v extension cords, and one of them tripped that happened to contain both that fan and my 24 port Ethernet switch. I didn't notice the switch was off in my panic right before I had to leave town. Up in the attic, a similar but unrelated thing happened where a 120v line went down that contained the switch up there. What a relief!!!! I'm back up and running as I type this. I shuffled some things around so this shouldn't happen again.

 So it was a very minor problem.  Good news for sure.
Stubby5000 (OP)
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October 23, 2017, 02:12:19 AM
 #27

YES. Such a relief.
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October 23, 2017, 06:48:37 AM
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Good to hear! Smiley

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October 23, 2017, 11:16:16 AM
 #29

lol  Grin 20% OC

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|.BUY REXX.
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October 23, 2017, 12:08:59 PM
 #30

Unbelievable! It WAS the Ethernet. What happened was I had a few heavy duty splitters on some of my 120v extension cords, and one of them tripped that happened to contain both that fan and my 24 port Ethernet switch. I didn't notice the switch was off in my panic right before I had to leave town. Up in the attic, a similar but unrelated thing happened where a 120v line went down that contained the switch up there. What a relief!!!! I'm back up and running as I type this. I shuffled some things around so this shouldn't happen again.

I think your internet is down.  Have you checked your internet connections?

Stubby, I think bitcoin9999 at least deserves one day of your mining redirected to his wallet! hahaha

I'm glad it's working, I can only imagine how bad you felt when you arrived home and $70k+ of equipments were out of work.
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October 24, 2017, 05:04:23 AM
 #31

I am glad you were able to fix this problem! Could you tell me how the OC is working for your L3s and what frequency you have them set to?
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October 24, 2017, 09:01:59 AM
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I am glad you were able to fix this problem! Could you tell me how the OC is working for your L3s and what frequency you have them set to?

yes i'm wondering the same
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October 24, 2017, 09:36:36 AM
 #33

20% overload is hazard  Huh

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October 24, 2017, 10:30:08 AM
 #34

First, most of the comments or reply you had here are stupid, second, if the circuit breakers were not tripped then it might be related to Brownout, if there was a short circuit then the circuit breaker would trip and the same goes to overload, Brownout mean that not enough electricity for all your asics is coming from the energy transformers but that would randomly turn off some machines and let others to be still working if there are 3 phase power. Brownout don't trip circuit breakers and damage a lot if it keeps trying to make the asics to work. You should have got a power monitor that trips the circuit breaker if not enough electricity is coming to your house. Brownout are bad for electronics in general.

If no internet then the reason why the red lights and why they were not working by the way, you should read about Brownout.

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October 24, 2017, 03:59:10 PM
 #35

nevertheless, I told you guys not to OC these devices, I've burnt a couple of them by OC'ing and playing around with frequency. Now they're all XXX XXX
and no way back.

so be careful pls - a friendly advice.

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MnngSprvsr
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October 24, 2017, 06:14:45 PM
 #36

nevertheless, I told you guys not to OC these devices, I've burnt a couple of them by OC'ing and playing around with frequency. Now they're all XXX XXX
and no way back.

so be careful pls - a friendly advice.

how much you oc the l3+? 600 MH/s?
i think 8-10% are OK? or not? 540-550 Mh/s
Stubby5000 (OP)
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October 26, 2017, 02:48:11 AM
 #37

It was definitely a lack of internet connection that caused the problem. It was the red “fault” light that made me think it was something electrical, however if you test this at home, you’ll see this does indeed light up if you lack an internet connection. I would have figured this out but when I got home from work the wife and kids were waiting in the car, ready to leave town, so I had essentially no time to troubleshoot. So instead I churned with worry all weekend long, imagining the worst. I did begin to think it was the router towards the end of the weekend (it was the only common denominator) so it was such a relief to get home and see that router off.

With regards to overclocking, there is absolutely no doubt you can safely overclock 5-10%, or be like me and push the envelope a bit and go for 20-25%. I’ve been doing this successfully for months now with no ill effects, in a hotish attic no less. When you have lots of machines you will notice that some are more overclockable than others, due of course to the silicon lottery. Some machines will barely take a frequency of 425M, and others can approach 500M. Here are some numbers I’ve gathered. Take this with a grain of salt as these numbers came from just one machine.

384M - 504 MH - 810w
400M - 520 MH - 845w
425M - 555 MH - 905w
437M - 572 MH - 935w
450M - 590 MH - 965w
475M - 620 MH - 1020w
481M - 630 MH - 1065w
487M - 635 MH - 1070w

When you start approaching the limits of a particular machine, you will notice hardware errors accumulate very fast and your real time hashrate will be higher than your average. For me, when the difference is more than 20 MH/s, that’s the limit. I have some machines that can hash at 650+ MH/s.
Stubby5000 (OP)
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October 26, 2017, 02:58:31 AM
 #38

Incidentally, the D3 is not nearly as overclockable. At the very best I can get 20 MH/s, which is only 15% over stock. And most machines can’t reach 20.
DrkLvr_
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October 26, 2017, 04:28:59 AM
 #39

200 AMP service doesn't mean 200 CONTINUOUS Amps. For continuous you should use 80% or 160 Amps maximum. Your electrician didn't mention anything like this?
crypticj
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October 26, 2017, 04:57:28 AM
 #40

I was going to say internet/switch but glad you found the problem.
Stubby5000 (OP)
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October 26, 2017, 05:17:48 AM
 #41

I am aware of the “80% load” rule of thumb, but in reality this is very conservative. A brand new breaker switch can probably sustain 100% of its rated current (or more) especially if there is some airflow in the breaker box. I leave my door open with a fan on it. The other day I noticed my attic (100 amp service) was pulling 99.x amps and probably had been doing so all day. That’s a bit close to the line for me so I moved one machine to the house circuit, but now I run in the low to mid 90s up there and I’m perfectly comfortable with that.
DrkLvr_
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October 28, 2017, 07:06:00 PM
 #42

Keep in mind that your setup would certainly not be considered hobby but commercial, and i seriously doubt you have the proper insurance for that. 

Where are you getting this information that 80% is conservative? There are many factors at play, it's not just about leaving your breaker door open. You should definitely talk to a qualified electrician about your setup, your flippant attitude is incredibly irresponsible.
cryptofriendz
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October 28, 2017, 07:48:04 PM
 #43

Whats the average temp in your room?
Stubby5000 (OP)
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October 29, 2017, 05:16:34 AM
 #44

A qualified, licensed electrician has been with me from the start of this project and has wired everything I have in my attic. He also made me some custom cords that I’m using for the temporary garage setup. He’s seen everything I’m doing in my home (as have two more electricians that work under him). I get my information from them.
Average temp in the attic very much depends on the weather outside. In the beginning, before I had my radiant barrier up and when the weather was hotter, it would get toasty up there. Uncomfortable to be up there for any amount of time. Now it’s much better, pleasant in fact. I’d estimate 70-75 degrees.
BitcoinIntern
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December 05, 2017, 03:14:56 PM
 #45

Did you ever figure this out? What was the outcome? Any lessons learned which you could share? Thanks.
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