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Author Topic: Anybody else getting slaughtered by this latest difficulty?  (Read 9440 times)
no_alone
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June 27, 2011, 03:22:48 PM
 #21

I had 3 5850 got 1.5BTC a day 2 weeks ago.. Now I have 6 5850 again getting 1.5BTC a day...
Very Very sad...

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June 27, 2011, 03:25:32 PM
 #22

Man.... sucks to be the guys who invested that much money into this. All I invested was $200 into a single video card and I've almost made my money back. I'm certainly not going to complain about a free video card.

AngelusWebDesign
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June 27, 2011, 03:31:31 PM
 #23

I had 3 5850 got 1.5BTC a day 2 weeks ago.. Now I have 6 5850 again getting 1.5BTC a day...
Very Very sad...

5850s

And people are RIGHT NOW bidding 5830's up to $160 on eBay -- at least that's the going "market rate" on eBay for them. Which is ridiculous -- anyone hoping to MAKE MONEY is going to be disappointed, because you'll never see $160 from one of those cards. A person would be better off buying $160 worth of BTC.

5830s, unlike 5850s, do NOT get 0.25 BTC/day.  5830s only get 0.167 BTC/day.

Now if it wasn't $160, it might be an OK deal. Perhaps $130 at the absolute highest.
Really, what made the 5830 popular was the $110 price point. It's NOT the ultimate card for Bitcoin mining. There are plenty of cards that mine better than that card!

When I see people bidding the 5830 up higher than a 5850 or 5870, I have to shake my head. The 5850 gets about 350 MH/s and the 5970 gets about 365 MH/s, with moderate overclocking (no voltage tweaking).

Unfortunately, the smart people figure it out first, followed by the pretty smart, followed by those of average intelligence, followed by those of below-average intelligence.

Not everyone "figures things out" at the same time.

Just like with the Dot-Com bubble, just like with house flipping. There were some people who didn't know the bubble burst even after it burst! They still thought the bubble was intact (rather than burst). Those people, of course, lost plenty of money.

You want to be one of the quick ones -- one of the smart ones.

phenom
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June 27, 2011, 11:14:13 PM
 #24

I had 3 5850 got 1.5BTC a day 2 weeks ago.. Now I have 6 5850 again getting 1.5BTC a day...
Very Very sad...

5850s

And people are RIGHT NOW bidding 5830's up to $160 on eBay -- at least that's the going "market rate" on eBay for them. Which is ridiculous -- anyone hoping to MAKE MONEY is going to be disappointed, because you'll never see $160 from one of those cards. A person would be better off buying $160 worth of BTC.

5830s, unlike 5850s, do NOT get 0.25 BTC/day.  5830s only get 0.167 BTC/day.

Now if it wasn't $160, it might be an OK deal. Perhaps $130 at the absolute highest.
Really, what made the 5830 popular was the $110 price point. It's NOT the ultimate card for Bitcoin mining. There are plenty of cards that mine better than that card!

When I see people bidding the 5830 up higher than a 5850 or 5870, I have to shake my head. The 5850 gets about 350 MH/s and the 5970 gets about 365 MH/s, with moderate overclocking (no voltage tweaking).

Unfortunately, the smart people figure it out first, followed by the pretty smart, followed by those of average intelligence, followed by those of below-average intelligence.

Not everyone "figures things out" at the same time.

Just like with the Dot-Com bubble, just like with house flipping. There were some people who didn't know the bubble burst even after it burst! They still thought the bubble was intact (rather than burst). Those people, of course, lost plenty of money.

You want to be one of the quick ones -- one of the smart ones.



A 5870 can get 430 MH/s without touching the voltage.

kcobra
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June 28, 2011, 06:26:58 AM
 #25

Just sold a used 5830 on ebay this weekend for $162.50 shipped before ebay/paypal fees. So take away shipping and ebay fees and I netted ~$125. Not bad for a $109 card. Smiley

BTW, anyone else think ebay fees are completely out of hand? Ebay charged $14.63 in fees for that $162.50 sale. Then Paypal charged $5.01. That is around 12 percent for simply hosting a web page and moving some money around. I'm close to saying screw ebay on most stuff and going back to craigslist. So many retards on craigslist though...
bcpokey
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June 28, 2011, 06:42:38 AM
 #26

I had 3 5850 got 1.5BTC a day 2 weeks ago.. Now I have 6 5850 again getting 1.5BTC a day...
Very Very sad...

5850s

And people are RIGHT NOW bidding 5830's up to $160 on eBay -- at least that's the going "market rate" on eBay for them. Which is ridiculous -- anyone hoping to MAKE MONEY is going to be disappointed, because you'll never see $160 from one of those cards. A person would be better off buying $160 worth of BTC.

5830s, unlike 5850s, do NOT get 0.25 BTC/day.  5830s only get 0.167 BTC/day.

Now if it wasn't $160, it might be an OK deal. Perhaps $130 at the absolute highest.
Really, what made the 5830 popular was the $110 price point. It's NOT the ultimate card for Bitcoin mining. There are plenty of cards that mine better than that card!

When I see people bidding the 5830 up higher than a 5850 or 5870, I have to shake my head. The 5850 gets about 350 MH/s and the 5970 gets about 365 MH/s, with moderate overclocking (no voltage tweaking).

Unfortunately, the smart people figure it out first, followed by the pretty smart, followed by those of average intelligence, followed by those of below-average intelligence.

Not everyone "figures things out" at the same time.

Just like with the Dot-Com bubble, just like with house flipping. There were some people who didn't know the bubble burst even after it burst! They still thought the bubble was intact (rather than burst). Those people, of course, lost plenty of money.

You want to be one of the quick ones -- one of the smart ones.



A 5870 can get 430 MH/s without touching the voltage.

The sky is always falling with him, and the worst case scenario is always the norm, don't pay much attention.


Just sold a used 5830 on ebay this weekend for $162.50 shipped before ebay/paypal fees. So take away shipping and ebay fees and I netted ~$125. Not bad for a $109 card. Smiley

BTW, anyone else think ebay fees are completely out of hand? Ebay charged $14.63 in fees for that $162.50 sale. Then Paypal charged $5.01. That is around 12 percent for simply hosting a web page and moving some money around. I'm close to saying screw ebay on most stuff and going back to craigslist. So many retards on craigslist though...

I would never sell on ebay, the markup you need is retarded. The fees total roughly 13% with paypal. I use private sites to traffic in my video cards (better for buying and selling, yay). The only time I used ebay in the past 8 years was because of that groupon deal that gave you 60% off purchases. Other than that that site can piss off.
Camron
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June 28, 2011, 07:10:57 AM
 #27

I had 3 5850 got 1.5BTC a day 2 weeks ago.. Now I have 6 5850 again getting 1.5BTC a day...
Very Very sad...

5850s

And people are RIGHT NOW bidding 5830's up to $160 on eBay -- at least that's the going "market rate" on eBay for them. Which is ridiculous -- anyone hoping to MAKE MONEY is going to be disappointed, because you'll never see $160 from one of those cards. A person would be better off buying $160 worth of BTC.

5830s, unlike 5850s, do NOT get 0.25 BTC/day.  5830s only get 0.167 BTC/day.

Now if it wasn't $160, it might be an OK deal. Perhaps $130 at the absolute highest.
Really, what made the 5830 popular was the $110 price point. It's NOT the ultimate card for Bitcoin mining. There are plenty of cards that mine better than that card!

When I see people bidding the 5830 up higher than a 5850 or 5870, I have to shake my head. The 5850 gets about 350 MH/s and the 5970 gets about 365 MH/s, with moderate overclocking (no voltage tweaking).

Unfortunately, the smart people figure it out first, followed by the pretty smart, followed by those of average intelligence, followed by those of below-average intelligence.

Not everyone "figures things out" at the same time.

Just like with the Dot-Com bubble, just like with house flipping. There were some people who didn't know the bubble burst even after it burst! They still thought the bubble was intact (rather than burst). Those people, of course, lost plenty of money.

You want to be one of the quick ones -- one of the smart ones.



A 5870 can get 430 MH/s without touching the voltage.

My 5830s does 300 Mh/s at less noise and less heat than my 5850s (my 5850s are voltage locked since the stupid software won't adjust it without it being in crossfire, they are stable at 323 Mh/s).  My 5870s (without touching voltage), will only do around410-415 Mh/s. 

If I was redoing my farm, I would only use 5830s but I agree that the price of $160 isn't a great deal for them.  I picked mine up for $110.

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June 28, 2011, 07:14:50 AM
 #28

I'm close to saying screw ebay on most stuff and going back to craigslist. So many retards on craigslist though...

You've just answered your own question about why people use eBay.  Binding agreements and you almost always get paid.  Selling through forums or other means is like pulling teeth.  eBay's charges are terrible but there are few other viable alternatives.

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tanerlorn
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June 28, 2011, 07:22:32 AM
 #29

I had 3 5850 got 1.5BTC a day 2 weeks ago.. Now I have 6 5850 again getting 1.5BTC a day...
Very Very sad...

5850s

And people are RIGHT NOW bidding 5830's up to $160 on eBay -- at least that's the going "market rate" on eBay for them. Which is ridiculous -- anyone hoping to MAKE MONEY is going to be disappointed, because you'll never see $160 from one of those cards. A person would be better off buying $160 worth of BTC.

5830s, unlike 5850s, do NOT get 0.25 BTC/day.  5830s only get 0.167 BTC/day.

Now if it wasn't $160, it might be an OK deal. Perhaps $130 at the absolute highest.
Really, what made the 5830 popular was the $110 price point. It's NOT the ultimate card for Bitcoin mining. There are plenty of cards that mine better than that card!

When I see people bidding the 5830 up higher than a 5850 or 5870, I have to shake my head. The 5850 gets about 350 MH/s and the 5970 gets about 365 MH/s, with moderate overclocking (no voltage tweaking).

Unfortunately, the smart people figure it out first, followed by the pretty smart, followed by those of average intelligence, followed by those of below-average intelligence.

Not everyone "figures things out" at the same time.

Just like with the Dot-Com bubble, just like with house flipping. There were some people who didn't know the bubble burst even after it burst! They still thought the bubble was intact (rather than burst). Those people, of course, lost plenty of money.

You want to be one of the quick ones -- one of the smart ones.



Its amazing that you would imply others are of lower intelligence than yourself when you ignore the very base and simple concept of:

It is impossible to predict future price
It is impossible to predict future price
It is impossible to predict future price
It is impossible to predict future price

So yeah maybe that 5830 will never make you $160. Or maybe it will make you $1600.

Seriously man enough with the posts. You don't want more people to mine, because then it'll be harder for you. I'm seriously crying at how bad I feel for you, you poor poor little baby. (sarcasm obv)
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June 28, 2011, 08:49:46 AM
 #30

Relax. It seems that all the discouragement from Angelus is working. Why else would we be stalling at roughly 6 blocks per hours?! Smiley

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June 28, 2011, 10:33:57 AM
 #31

I only started like 3 weeks ago making .33 coins a day with one 6870. now i'm making 15-16. i realized i was getting into this pretty late but it still seemed worth the investment before the latest increase. i was going to buy another rig too that could support two gpus because my current miner has only one pcie slot.

i was still optimistic a couple of days ago but now a new rig seems like a bad idea. i really thought we'd already be seeing some price hikes to go along with this difficulty increase but none so far. i guess those hardcore miners are keeping a steady supply to meet demand. i guess i'll just keep mining my one card and try to recoup the investment.
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June 28, 2011, 12:26:21 PM
 #32

Look guys, here is the bottom line. The amount of btc paid out per hour is like a lottery, its basically a fixed amount regardless of how many miners there are. If more people mining then it means less btc for everyone.

With that being said the bottom line is that the only people who are going to mine in the future are those who have the most efficient mining rigs. By efficiency I mean the people with the lowest cost for electricity and the most efficient rigs that can turn that electricity into btc. If your electricity is over 10c/kwh then its pretty much game over.

As the difficulty increases only those that meet the above criteria will continue to mine. Everyone else will just go bankrupt.

I would strongly suggest to analyze their rig operation and see if it makes sense to mine in the future. If the answer is no then best to sell while you are ahead. For most of you, the biggest problem is that you electricity is too expensive.

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makomk
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June 28, 2011, 02:24:03 PM
 #33

Its amazing that you would imply others are of lower intelligence than yourself when you ignore the very base and simple concept of:

It is impossible to predict future price
It is impossible to predict future price
It is impossible to predict future price
It is impossible to predict future price

So yeah maybe that 5830 will never make you $160. Or maybe it will make you $1600.
Would you ever be better off than if you just bought a suitable number of bitcoins for USD directly right this instant, though? If not, it's entirely pointless to buy one for bitcoin mining at that price.

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Yeti
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June 28, 2011, 02:37:03 PM
 #34

Everybody that thinks this way should buy my mined bitcoins from me. Shush, go away! Let us nerds mine in peace for the helluvit. Buying $160 (or $1,000 for that matter) Bitcoins on an exchange is nothing compared to the joy you get from building a rig yourself from scratch. It's like having a baby! (Also about as high-maintenance.)

Really, it's not so bad. I expected difficulty to rise a lot more since there are so many people with cheaper electricity than me. But now it seems to level off and people are already exiting which makes it that much more profitable for me to mine. Wink

Who needs to recoup investments when they have fun playing around with hardware?! I've not built a system from scratch in almost 10 years!

All you whiny get-rich-fast miners should sell your stuff on eBay and buy some coins at your local exchange.

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June 28, 2011, 02:41:39 PM
 #35

Total hashrate is nearly below 10Thashes - down from like ~12. Seems some people don't like the new difficulty.
Or was it a display bug?
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June 28, 2011, 02:44:20 PM
 #36

Nope. That's more likely just the ups and downs of luck.
If there's a block/hour ratio of (more or less) 6 that means people still run their rigs but do not add new hardware (which had already been unfeasible before the last difficulty change).

So IMHO everybody is still on board (more or less) but right now it's not attractive to invest in new hardware. Should the price rise again we will see another rise in difficulty because more people will buy new hardware (new and old miners alike).

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June 28, 2011, 02:44:55 PM
 #37

Then don't sell them if you believe they are undervalued.
If lots of people think like that it means that a large amount of bitcoins that people really want to sell is piling up. When you give up waiting the price will crash.

Indeed.  Bitcoin's value requires a constant infusion of new market participants.  If people become disillusioned with mining and bitcoin fails to find a real use, the hoarders waiting for a better price will be waiting for Godot.  If enough people come to the conclusion that 'this is as good as it gets' in regards to BTC's price, it's a downward spiral from there.  Sellers attract more sellers as BTCs are dumped onto fewer and fewer buyers.  Speculators may cherish this buying opportunity but there comes a time when even the strongest believer in a commodity must wonder if they're going to be stuck holding the bag.

Price will collapse and 0 - 2016 blocks later so will difficulty. Unless BTC is deposed from some other inherent flaw in the long run this will only make mining more attractive to those of us who think BTC has a future in its own right.

More likely the efficient will crowd out the inefficient as gigahash miners become tera and peta hash miners.

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Kuber
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June 28, 2011, 02:55:23 PM
 #38

Nope. That's more likely just the ups and downs of luck.
If there's a block/hour ratio of (more or less) 6 that means people still run their rigs but do not add new hardware (which had already been unfeasible before the last difficulty change).

So IMHO everybody is still on board (more or less) but right now it's not attractive to invest in new hardware. Should the price rise again we will see another rise in difficulty because more people will buy new hardware (new and old miners alike).

Yup, but the block/hour ratio was nearly 8 few days ago.. haven't known that luck could have such a big impact at such high hashing rates.
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June 28, 2011, 03:05:18 PM
 #39

How many few days ago? Mind you, the last diff change was on Friday.
http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-2k.png shows the variance (green line) quite nicely.

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June 28, 2011, 03:19:08 PM
 #40

According to those graphs it looks like difficulty is now slightly above mining interest.
If there are no more price spikes I suspect the next difficulty might be less than 10%(Huh) when the next adjustment comes around.

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