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Author Topic: [2017-10-23] The Wolf of Wall Street Thinks Some ICOs Are 'The Biggest Scam Ever  (Read 9757 times)
rabeh boukhnona
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October 23, 2017, 11:20:58 PM
 #1

In the chorus of voices warning against the fraudulent implications of many initial coin offerings (ICOs), here’s one that should stand out: that of convicted fraudster Jordan Belfort.

The “Wolf of Wall Street,” whose securities frauds were recounted in the film of the same name—where Belfort was portrayed by Leonardo DiCaprio—told the Financial Times that ICOs were “the biggest scam ever” and that they would “blow up [in investors’] faces.”

An ICO is a form of fundraising for startups, usually in the blockchain space, that gives investors tokens instead of shares. However, many of these startups do not have clear business plans. And while investors might hope that their tokens appreciate in value, as those in the bitcoin and Ethereum networks have done, that may not happen.

China famously banned ICOs, lumping them in with pyramid schemes. Canadian regulators have said that these token are securities that should be regulated. The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) has warned of pump-and-dump schemes, where companies don’t deliver the promised goods and cash out following a frenzied ICO.

By some measurements, ICOs have raised over $3 billion so far this year. And Belfort thinks their promoters are “perpetuating a massive scam of the highest order on everyone. “Probably 85% of people out there don’t have bad intentions, but the problem is, if 5% or 10% are trying to scam you, it’s a f**king disaster,” he told the FT.

“It is the biggest scam ever, such a huge gigantic scam that’s going to blow up in so many people’s faces,” he said, adding: “It’s far worse than anything I was ever doing.”

However, unlike the likes of Jamie Dimon, Belfort said there was nothing inherently wrong with the idea of cryptocurrencies.
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November 05, 2017, 03:25:24 PM
 #2

Well i agree with Mr Belfort. Giving away bitcoins in exchange for a brand new coin it's even worse than a shot in dark. How many cryptocurrencies exist, and how many have a reasonable value? Also there are tons of "fake" coins. They get the money and run-away.
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November 05, 2017, 03:44:42 PM
 #3

There are many useless coins and many terrible ICOs but this is another example of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
That does not mean that ALL are scams are useless.
ICO is a great tool.
We just have to learn how to use it
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November 05, 2017, 06:57:32 PM
 #4

There are many useless coins and many terrible ICOs but this is another example of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
That does not mean that ALL are scams are useless.
ICO is a great tool.
We just have to learn how to use it

Actually we have to introduce them to regulations in order to avoid or at least reduce scams. This would help a lot!
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November 06, 2017, 10:35:38 AM
 #5

The question is where regulation comes from.
The more that we impose best practices and reduce the level of scams the better regulation will be for everyone.
If we do nothing as a community then the regulation will be draconian.
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November 06, 2017, 10:58:21 AM
 #6

Actually he has a point. And we cryptocurrency enthusiast have seen countless ICO scams along the way. On the other hand, I don't know if there is a body that could really regulate it to prevent them from scamming investors. So it is still up to the us, investors to make a good decision and study every ICO that we are going to invest in so that we can't be scam after all. We need to used our good judgement and sometimes even a hunch if we are going to put out our money on another ICO again.

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November 06, 2017, 11:07:19 AM
 #7

There are many projects which are scams but uses Fiat. You can not effectively fight it. I like to think that the dollar is the same fraudulent ICO and many others. But the us government has a significant impact and therefore the pyramid is still alive. We may face the same problems. regulation the ICO will not give you a chance 100% to be sure that you are protected from fraud.

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Kingofbitcoin12345
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November 06, 2017, 11:21:35 AM
 #8

I think I agree to this one.. Most ICO are scamming,, I don’t know how to call this cryptocurrency investors who are feeding this projects and after a week will post scam accusations and then a new ICO will open and invest again.. I will not even call them investors but victims of this cruel virtual world.. I have seen much of it that’s why I never intended to work with them that has bad reputations.. But I work with a chosen promising ICO available..

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November 06, 2017, 11:24:26 AM
 #9

There are many useless coins and many terrible ICOs but this is another example of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
That does not mean that ALL are scams are useless.
ICO is a great tool.
We just have to learn how to use it
We easily can call 2017 as year of ICO. Among all those ICO that's are a lot of scam, mostly because of this area of business is still not regulated, but the process of regulating finelly began and I think it's good. Investors should to be protected from scammers.
I am agree with you that the idea of ICO is great, but we all need to learn to use if for good.
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November 06, 2017, 12:03:56 PM
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We easily can call 2017 as year of ICO. Among all those ICO that's are a lot of scam, mostly because of this area of business is still not regulated, but the process of regulating finelly began and I think it's good. Investors should to be protected from scammers.
I am agree with you that the idea of ICO is great, but we all need to learn to use if for good.
Yes. Already the overcrowding and the difficulty in raising will hopefully slow down scammers trying to get into the space.
It will take a few months for effect though.
I think by mid 2018 we should see a more balanced approach to ICOs
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November 06, 2017, 12:11:56 PM
 #11

There are many useless coins and many terrible ICOs but this is another example of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
That does not mean that ALL are scams are useless.
ICO is a great tool.
We just have to learn how to use it
We easily can call 2017 as year of ICO. Among all those ICO that's are a lot of scam, mostly because of this area of business is still not regulated, but the process of regulating finelly began and I think it's good. Investors should to be protected from scammers.
I am agree with you that the idea of ICO is great, but we all need to learn to use if for good.

There are really a lot of ICO this year. They are like mushrooms popping out like every month. But its really hard to filtered which one is good and which one is not. Maybe the Wolf of Wall Street has a point here because we can't really deny the fact that a lot of them have scammed us. Regulations are coming, even China and South Korea has banned ICO because of the very same reason that some unscrupulous personalities are just having this fund raising to really screw up investors money.



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November 06, 2017, 08:59:26 PM
 #12

Cant wait for the next wolf movie; this time crypto based The Wolfs of ICOs
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November 06, 2017, 10:41:05 PM
 #13

Are ICO tokens are a scam!?  That is reason why fraudsters became smarter over this year 2017.  At the moment on a current market - very easy! 

First the investors should ask themselves and try to get that info for comparing that with marketing budget of ICO. If marketing budget is larger or comparable with the budget to get a product done.

Second ask yourself why these guys don’t do the project, launch it, and then do an ICO. Sometimes there is an answer (product has competitors which it will need to compete with, strong legal support is required, etc), but in most cases it will reveal that people there are for easy money and nothing more than this.

Of course most ICOs are scams and most cryptocurrencies (other than Bitcoin, “altcoins”) are shit coins. Some ICO tokens are not a scam. However, it is a sign that at least one savvy VC does not consider all ICOs a scam.  Some investors may be more books smart but what matters in investing is returns and risk. You can’t just guess right. You have to make bets.

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November 07, 2017, 01:32:19 AM
 #14

I cannot disagree with this one. There are ICOs that are just hype up because people take advantage of the opportunity to have free coins even though they see that the coin has no viable project. There are projects that have active developers entertaining the invesstors and bounty participants during the ICO but after the ICO, they would be suddenly gone leaving their investors and bounty participants in vain. Though there may be legit ICOs out there, it is hard to trust again if you have been betrayed/scammed and I think with so many ICOs launching this year, the bubble would burst sooner or later and I hope those legit ones would remain and scammers would be gone.



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November 07, 2017, 06:01:37 AM
 #15

The question is where regulation comes from.
The more that we impose best practices and reduce the level of scams the better regulation will be for everyone.
If we do nothing as a community then the regulation will be draconian.


I am (we are) trying to teach this to the GREEDY MASSES!
Thank you for showing us there are still some good people around here.

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November 07, 2017, 07:01:38 AM
 #16

The question is where regulation comes from.
The more that we impose best practices and reduce the level of scams the better regulation will be for everyone.
If we do nothing as a community then the regulation will be draconian.

I am (we are) trying to teach this to the GREEDY MASSES!
Thank you for showing us there are still some good people around here.


Yes it can, but is our bitcoin community really exist? Even in this forum, most are cheating and scamming each other’s without any care. If this is the people we are part of, it was not a good influence to most newbies who wanted to learn in a legal way. We or half of the members might have good intentions but can be manipulated by others who have the different motives. I know that ignorance in any rules is not an exception but this regulation will only be effective if all of us will give effort to follow it.

I will give time for this community to mature the same way bitcoin does. After all it is still a decade old there so many room to improve and be organized.

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November 07, 2017, 07:31:08 AM
 #17

I couldn't agree more. They make something up and people are led to believe that it is going to be thing in the future by using "blockchain" and a whole lot of jargons.

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November 07, 2017, 07:35:37 AM
 #18

However, unlike the likes of Jamie Dimon, Belfort said there was nothing inherently wrong with the idea of cryptocurrencies.
Source
Thanks Belfort!, at least you are not throwing shades at Bitcoin and Yes, Couldn't agree more on what Belfort said. Some member will oppose that not all ICOs, yup. Not all ICOs are scam, but mostly of the ICOs have been on a pump and dump scenario , and mostly of the life on the coins is just short lived. Another concern should be addressed and answered: Does the investors do the Pump and Dump schemes on some ICOs who have a good intentions on their ICOs? well, It's their choice to just dump the coin whatever they want, but what will be the sense of ICOs if it were just made for Pump and Dump scheme: Nothing therefore I think ICO regulation should also cover the regulation of Investors.

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November 07, 2017, 07:35:43 AM
 #19

Mostly and not all, there are still more finished ICOs that have their business actively running.
Unregulated ICOs are mostly subjected to Scam Accusation. All ICOs are unregulated though but ICOs who have ANN Thread and has a bounty and also pays on BTC with good marketing are still subjected to being a SCAM Coin. Most of the Coins now and ICOs are just for pump and dump schemes which is very common on a coin. Regulations from Different country, helps the Bitcoin and CryptoCurrency Community to minimize the ICOs that can Scam the investors.

Yes it can, but is our bitcoin community really exist?
Yes it does, what do you call the people creating threads on scam accusation board providing evidences that an ICO is a scam?
I suggest that people who invests should also learn how to research and detect what is a real ICO and a scammy-trashy ICO is.

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November 07, 2017, 09:06:26 AM
 #20

I suggest that people who invests should also learn how to research and detect what is a real ICO and a scammy-trashy ICO is.
you are expecting too much from ICOs investors  Cheesy And the problem is, money can be made even on scammy ico.
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November 07, 2017, 10:02:21 AM
 #21

Some ICOs are really scammers' projects. You must always be aware that you take risks when dealing with the new project. Just follow small tips - pay attention at the site design, check the logo - it might be stolen, check the team - they must be real known in cryptomarket people and read attentively the ICO Whitepaper: it must exist!

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November 07, 2017, 10:21:15 AM
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Thanks, Belfort, we had no idea about that!
Of course, there are some people who think that is a quick way to earn some money with a scam ICO, but now when the investors are cautious, the bad ICOs won't last long. It is all about spotting

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November 07, 2017, 03:36:50 PM
 #23

There is some level of truth in his statement for sure . I agree that this year many ICOs have been seen in the forum and other sites .
It is hard to judge which ones of them are actual and which are not . Main reason why China banned ICOs that most of them are scammed . Right now the market is flooded with scams . But not all of them are  scams , i have benefited from many Icos in the past .
But i also remember some of the scams i had to experience   

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November 07, 2017, 03:44:25 PM
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Well i agree with Mr Belfort. Giving away bitcoins in exchange for a brand new coin it's even worse than a shot in dark. How many cryptocurrencies exist, and how many have a reasonable value? Also there are tons of "fake" coins. They get the money and run-away.
That's not really accurate because a lot of people who are regular investors in ico's don't really care about the coin itself. All they really care about is getting in early on the action (most of the times at a very low price) and then sell for a lot more when the coin hits an exchange. And this worked for the longest time until scammers started seeing opportunities to make a lot of money in a short amount of time. So of course there are scams but it's a straight up exaggeration to claim some are the biggest scams of all time. The biggest scam of all time is fiat imo.

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November 08, 2017, 01:21:59 AM
 #25

I suggest that people who invests should also learn how to research and detect what is a real ICO and a scammy-trashy ICO is.
you are expecting too much from ICOs investors  Cheesy And the problem is, money can be made even on scammy ico.

Then they are expecting too much for ICOs isn't it the problem?. The Problem exists, There are a lot of Scammy ICOs because Investors are just continuing to pumping it up, Investors can prevent from being scammed by researching the background of the ICOs.

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November 08, 2017, 01:52:03 AM
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This year, indeed, a very large number of ICOs were conducted, and because some of them turned out to be common fraud, this problem was attracted by the involvement of both the community and state bodies. Indeed, the problem of risks during the ICO is very serious. It can be decided only by staggered state or public regulation. I hope that in the future the situation will change and the risks will be reduced.


         
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November 09, 2017, 02:47:35 AM
 #27

I suggest that people who invests should also learn how to research and detect what is a real ICO and a scammy-trashy ICO is.
you are expecting too much from ICOs investors  Cheesy And the problem is, money can be made even on scammy ico.

Then they are expecting too much for ICOs isn't it the problem?. The Problem exists, There are a lot of Scammy ICOs because Investors are just continuing to pumping it up, Investors can prevent from being scammed by researching the background of the ICOs.


You can't really blame them after all. Some scammers are very good even in some tiny details that is very professional looking so only professionals on crypto can spot those mistakes. Unlike small time investors that only knows blockchain and other normal terms that even allot time for research but their knowledge aren't adequate to see that there is a mistake in that project.

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November 09, 2017, 03:27:37 AM
 #28

I suggest that people who invests should also learn how to research and detect what is a real ICO and a scammy-trashy ICO is.
you are expecting too much from ICOs investors  Cheesy And the problem is, money can be made even on scammy ico.

Then they are expecting too much for ICOs isn't it the problem?. The Problem exists, There are a lot of Scammy ICOs because Investors are just continuing to pumping it up, Investors can prevent from being scammed by researching the background of the ICOs.


You can't really blame them after all. Some scammers are very good even in some tiny details that is very professional looking so only professionals on crypto can spot those mistakes. Unlike small time investors that only knows blockchain and other normal terms that even allot time for research but their knowledge aren't adequate to see that there is a mistake in that project.
I understand you, but we are on the Internet Era, reasons like "I do not know" and such is still understandable yet unacceptable. Do not just invest on the things that you don't know. It's time to be more observant and keen on selecting the ICOs you will invest.

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November 09, 2017, 05:24:43 AM
 #29

I suggest that people who invests should also learn how to research and detect what is a real ICO and a scammy-trashy ICO is.
you are expecting too much from ICOs investors  Cheesy And the problem is, money can be made even on scammy ico.

Then they are expecting too much for ICOs isn't it the problem?. The Problem exists, There are a lot of Scammy ICOs because Investors are just continuing to pumping it up, Investors can prevent from being scammed by researching the background of the ICOs.


You can't really blame them after all. Some scammers are very good even in some tiny details that is very professional looking so only professionals on crypto can spot those mistakes. Unlike small time investors that only knows blockchain and other normal terms that even allot time for research but their knowledge aren't adequate to see that there is a mistake in that project.

That's the first thing you should do before you invest STUDY AND LEARN AND RESEARCH what product/company/business or Coin that you will invest. You are not throwing money without even researching who is who and what is what. ICOs are not even regulated by the Government, so no one ever will identify if that ICO is scam, It's only the community of Investors and also you.

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November 09, 2017, 07:58:37 AM
 #30

Holding an ICO must be strictly monitored by the government. Even on this forum there are clearly fraudulent schemes.
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November 10, 2017, 08:24:42 AM
 #31

Holding an ICO must be strictly monitored by the government. Even on this forum there are clearly fraudulent schemes.

I have the same in mind. These scammy ICOs infects the image of other credible ICOs with real project. It's like there's only 1 out of 100 ICOs that are not after you money that exists every month.

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