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Author Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated  (Read 1050069 times)
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hypersire
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December 22, 2013, 11:07:40 AM
 #2801

Thanks for the website feedback everyone! I've gone through all the comments and came up with the following list of proposed updates as well as questions for the Devcoin community.

New Top Menu Items

Community - Should I just link to this forum thread on Bitcointalk? Someone asked if there is going to be a forum on devcoin.org. I haven't heard of any plans for this (wasn't there already a forum that didn't receive too much traffic?) The problem with having our own forum is that things will become fragmented with some people posting on the new forum while others (probably the majority) will still end up posting here.

I think it's ok to just make the "Community" link point to this thread but one thing we really need to do is clean up the multiple threads on Bitcointalk. If you Google Devcoin, you find one Devcoin link on BTT that's closed and points you to another thread that's closed and that one finally points you here. At the very least, the first posts of both those other threads should be updated with a link that points directly to this thread.

FAQs - We definitely need to add FAQs to the site. Weisoq said he is maintaining a list of FAQs here:

http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_faq

I can either transfer the FAQs to the new site myself and then make updates as required OR if Weisoq wishes to maintain the FAQs, I can come up with a way to AJAX them into devcoin.org from his site. In my opinion, it would be better to host the FAQs directly on devcoin.org as opposed to interfacing with another domain.

Wallet Downloads

giftculturewriting posted a link to a new Devcoin wallet here:

http://media.andarazoroflove.org/Devcoin-Installer.exe

Should this link overwrite the current link for "Devcoin Setup Exe Windows32"?

Also, notice that the majority of the wallets are hosted on a domain called "21stcenturymoneytalk", and a couple are on box.com. The 21stcenturymoneytalk links are better as they point directly to the file so once the user clicks on it the download is initiated (as opposed to box.com where the user is taken to a download page). Is there anyway we can be consistent and have ALL the wallet downloads (except maybe the source) hosted on the same server where I can point to the files directly?

Also, the domain "21stcenturymoneytalk" might be a turnoff to some users. Personally, I'd love to see all the downloads hosted directly on devcoin.org.

Round Payout Info Page

Sidhujag asked about how the Round Payout Info will be updates on the "Earnings and Payouts" tab. I just found this info on a static web page, so if it is being updated somewhere, please send me the link and I can look into pulling it into devcoin.org automatically.

Sidhujag - As for the iPhone issue, I can look into it but it might not be fixable as the slider and the site layout are all based on the standard "Bootstrap" template made famous by Twitter. Twitter has spent years testing and tweaking Bootstrap, so if there is a small layout issue like the one you describe, it might be within their acceptable definition of "degrading gracefully". The main thing is that there isn't any loss of content. I'll check into it anyway...

What's New / New Bounties

Sidhujag also asked if we could add a section for What's New and/or New Bounties.

Currently there are links to the bounty pages on both Devtome and Cryptostocks on the "Get Devcoins" page. If people feel this does not stand out enough, I can create a new heading or even a separate tab but I don't think they warrant their own page as bounties fall under the main heading of "Get DVC". Don't forget that the top nav space is limited - there's no way I could add "Community", "FAQs" AND a "Bounties" link - the top nav would become much too cluttered.

Text / Link Updates

A couple of users posted some new links or minor text edits which look good to me so I will go ahead and make the updates.
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December 22, 2013, 11:14:20 AM
 #2802

Someone also mentioned Facebook, Twitter and YouTube. I'd love to add social media icons to the footer of devcoin.org... I know there is a great YouTube video already out there, but I don't believe it is maintained on an "official" Devcoin channel.

May I propose that we find someone to take the role of "Social Media Administrator" for Devcoin who's job will be to oversee and maintain official Facebook, Twitter and YouTube pages?
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December 22, 2013, 11:17:23 AM
 #2803

Could someone drop a few Devcoins in the following address for my test of the Windows client (cannot access my own wallet now)?

18GCTJhxrWfXjnLwwjJKsSYBpyEV16pRsB

Will send them back.

Got 10 DVC so it's working  Grin Please PM return address so I can return it.

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DeepOnion
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December 22, 2013, 11:41:04 AM
Last edit: December 22, 2013, 02:09:23 PM by weisoq
 #2804

markm: I assumed the longer-term process would involve revenue -> fiat/bitcoin -> Devcoin -> projects that build on devcoin either technically or in terms of spreading the concept. If revenue grows substantially then using that to code a bot or for other bounties not already exisiting make sense, otherwise probably need to fund the chicken first and hope it helps lay some revenue eggs and get the cycle going?

hypersire: Community - I agree on fragmentation and other points you make. Whatever links are added need to have regular support, so this thread is probably simplest starting point. That's why I listed as to add later or when others thought it would be a good idea.

FAQ - I agree best hosted directly. I only started that page yesterday to get people thinking about what to add. We get the same questions asked a lot, and some posters have highlighted aspects that I don't really think about but that could do with being put in simpler sharper language. So that's ongoing and when it looks ready to add I'll repost here for consideration to transfer?

Social Media - notabot started an official devcoin youtube chanel here: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQU3IgoL8p-jr9cbKqW45TA I don't know if that's settled on. Facebook is proving to be a hassle for devtome (anyone spamming links, please don't), psybits probably knows most about facebook and devcoin. There's also a devcoin (devtome) twitter page here: https://twitter.com/Devtome but again don't know about mechanics of content - think it's auto article update rather than devcoin per se. So upshot is probably needs clarifying by psybits and notabot.

Wekkel - if it's to keep testing the client the address in my sig is fine. Edit: Got it
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December 22, 2013, 12:50:29 PM
 #2805

Georgem: I think a German translation is a good idea for the same reasons others gave, if the additional management is not too much hassle. But if it happened think it would be best to wait until there's a section on the portal (like a FAQ) which makes clear devtome is in english only.

I think it would be a pity (and wrong) to have devcoin only allow english texts.

Imagine wikipedia in only one language?

Is it atleast thinkable that we have english texts but also some kind of translation departement that coordinates the translation of all those english texts?

So every english text can have translations. But no text can exist in german only, since there always must exist an english version first.

That would be easy to manage database- or id-wise. Since there is always the english text as parent-node, and all the translations of this parent-node are simply child-nodes and can't ever be parent-nodes.


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December 22, 2013, 12:58:33 PM
 #2806

Georgem: I think a German translation is a good idea for the same reasons others gave, if the additional management is not too much hassle. But if it happened think it would be best to wait until there's a section on the portal (like a FAQ) which makes clear devtome is in english only.

Now wait, did I hear that correctly?

devtome is english only, but not devcoin.

So I understand that the admins of devtome can decide what they want and don't want to have on devtome.

But what if I were to create my own portal (similar to devtome) and focus it on the german language.

Would it be possible to merge this new site into devcoin, or is this the only marriage from now on and forever: devoin <--> devtome and they decided now and forever to be married and reproduce happily in english language only?

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December 22, 2013, 01:00:09 PM
 #2807

Why not write in both German and English language and keep the German contributions on your own German Devtome?

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December 22, 2013, 01:47:07 PM
 #2808

Now wait, did I hear that correctly?

devtome is english only, but not devcoin.

So I understand that the admins of devtome can decide what they want and don't want to have on devtome.

But what if I were to create my own portal (similar to devtome) and focus it on the german language.

Would it be possible to merge this new site into devcoin, or is this the only marriage from now on and forever: devoin <--> devtome and they decided now and forever to be married and reproduce happily in english language only?
That’s not what it’s about at all. I don't think there's any particular reason why it can't be done, it's that pragmatically it's very difficult to do properly. There are currently people involved in signing up writers, others who vet articles for plagiarism and general copy, others who categorise and organise the site, others who administer marketing and revenue, others who host and maintain it. That's all to build the site as a repository, supporting open-source content and more recently revenue generation to be able to put back into building devcoin and what it's about. And that’s still not yet enough.

The main aspect is that Devcoin is about open-source. This extends to Devtome. This means there's an issue of copyright. A text written in a foreign language, if it's your own, and translated would be fine in principle. But does an english translation of a german text written by somebody else breach the original author's copyright? Probably. The same problem exists for submitting foreign language writings. There has to be a means of ensuring they're original because once on Devtome it's open-source, and this will take a pretty significant number of people to monitor - many more than now.

People can offer to translate from german to english, if anybody's interested in taking them up on it: http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_translators

Even on translations, that has to work in the same way as for submitting english work. You can't just take a foreign language text, translate it word for word into english and submit it as original. Checks on this aren't perfect, but there are checks. But existing foreign language articles could be improved upon and submit as 'collated' which means it's based on another article, but rewritten in your own words with improvements, or bringing together various sources for example - and making it clear what those sources/original articles were.

It's still quite early days with devtome. I'm not sure what to say except that as a project started by english speakers it's going to take a while until there's enough of a trusted foreign language base to translate and check articles. You may be open, honest and understand the ethos of open-source but not everybody is. As you can probably imagine people are quite hot on checking that other's aren't abusing the system with complete nonsense, effectively giving a growing foundation of accountability. Even then it's still sometimes necessary to delete/edit writings. That's difficult enough in english and just not possible in other languages until more non-english natives get involved over time.

As Devtome is evolving from simple earnings for words to earnings for quality and readership, that builds the system towards one that might later be able to incorporate more. But imagine if now it was open to all languages without a base of global native speakers with the added ability to actual vet the submissions.  I’d guess even wikipedia had to begin in one language.
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December 22, 2013, 02:27:23 PM
 #2809

That’s not what it’s about at all. I don't think there's any particular reason why it can't be done, it's that pragmatically it's very difficult to do properly. There are currently people involved in signing up writers, others who vet articles for plagiarism and general copy, others who categorise and organise the site, others who administer marketing and revenue, others who host and maintain it. That's all to build the site as a repository, supporting open-source content and more recently revenue generation to be able to put back into building devcoin and what it's about. And that’s still not yet enough.

The main aspect is that Devcoin is about open-source. This extends to Devtome. This means there's an issue of copyright. A text written in a foreign language, if it's your own, and translated would be fine in principle. But does an english translation of a german text written by somebody else breach the original author's copyright? Probably. The same problem exists for submitting foreign language writings. There has to be a means of ensuring they're original because once on Devtome it's open-source, and this will take a pretty significant number of people to monitor - many more than now.

People can offer to translate from german to english, if anybody's interested in taking them up on it: http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_translators

Even on translations, that has to work in the same way as for submitting english work. You can't just take a foreign language text, translate it word for word into english and submit it as original. Checks on this aren't perfect, but there are checks. But existing foreign language articles could be improved upon and submit as 'collated' which means it's based on another article, but rewritten in your own words with improvements, or bringing together various sources for example - and making it clear what those sources/original articles were.

It's still quite early days with devtome. I'm not sure what to say except that as a project started by english speakers it's going to take a while until there's enough of a trusted foreign language base to translate and check articles. You may be open, honest and understand the ethos of open-source but not everybody is. As you can probably imagine people are quite hot on checking that other's aren't abusing the system with complete nonsense, effectively giving a growing foundation of accountability. Even then it's still sometimes necessary to delete/edit writings. That's difficult enough in english and just not possible in other languages until more non-english natives get involved over time.

As Devtome is evolving from simple earnings for words to earnings for quality and readership, that builds the system towards one that might later be able to incorporate more. But imagine if now it was open to all languages without a base of global native speakers with the added ability to actual vet the submissions.  I’d guess even wikipedia had to begin in one language.

Thanks for trying to clarify.

I still don't understand it 100%, but new (more general and not necessarily related) questions arise, since I consider myself still a devcoin-noob.

For example this link you gave : http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_translators

I have no idea how I could have ever found this link on my own. What other devtome-site does link to this specific subsite?

That is one of the big problems I have with devtome. I understand there is a lot of knowledge hidden in it, but I really struggle to find all the right articles and lists, because there seems to be no suitable structure behind it, to make it easy for me to find the information I am looking for.

For example I can't even make out on devtome where the separation line is between the wiki-style articles and all the devtome-related articles and discussions that are going on.

Also when is something true content (like a wiki article) , and when is it more like a news-piece / opinion of somebody (like for example http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=what_does_dogecoin_teach_us)
I can't imagine to see http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=what_does_dogecoin_teach_us ever on wikipedia, because it wouldn't meet the criteria, it is not a descriptive article, but rather an opinion.
Seriously? "What does dogecoin teach us?" could never be in an encyclopedia, but it can sure be a blogpost or a small slant in a newspaper...
So does devtome just lump all the content together in one place? Encyclopedia-articles mixed with slants, blogposts and poems? Is there a structure to separate inbetween those categories?

Also why does no article at all mention any source whatsoever? No links, no referalls, no sources. Is this the basic rule? To NOT post anything?
I understand that a poem I write does not need any citation. But an article about the WW2 sure does.

I still haven't grasped what devtome tries to achieve (other then distributing DVC to the participants)... is it more a wiki (encyclopedia) or more just text-submits of all sorts (for example I could write a poem or fiction)

If devtome wants to have both, it really should separate those content styles.

I will need more time, I admit I am a little confused. But it's quite a struggle...

(sorry for this messy deranged post, I am just reflecting my state of mind, lol)

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December 22, 2013, 03:23:58 PM
 #2810

Now wait, did I hear that correctly?

devtome is english only, but not devcoin.

So I understand that the admins of devtome can decide what they want and don't want to have on devtome.

But what if I were to create my own portal (similar to devtome) and focus it on the german language.

Would it be possible to merge this new site into devcoin, or is this the only marriage from now on and forever: devoin <--> devtome and they decided now and forever to be married and reproduce happily in english language only?
That’s not what it’s about at all. I don't think there's any particular reason why it can't be done, it's that pragmatically it's very difficult to do properly. There are currently people involved in signing up writers, others who vet articles for plagiarism and general copy, others who categorise and organise the site, others who administer marketing and revenue, others who host and maintain it. That's all to build the site as a repository, supporting open-source content and more recently revenue generation to be able to put back into building devcoin and what it's about. And that’s still not yet enough.

The main aspect is that Devcoin is about open-source. This extends to Devtome. This means there's an issue of copyright. A text written in a foreign language, if it's your own, and translated would be fine in principle. But does an english translation of a german text written by somebody else breach the original author's copyright? Probably. The same problem exists for submitting foreign language writings. There has to be a means of ensuring they're original because once on Devtome it's open-source, and this will take a pretty significant number of people to monitor - many more than now.


I think this is the main issue, and it had pretty much the same reasoning as why visual art and photography are not yet supported. The project is young and the admin base is small and doing the best they can on a skeleton crew. I think that if openness is demonstrated through portal translations into a couple of other major languages that focus on specific markets (like German), with the caveat that for now only English is accepted because of staff limitations, that could be the seed of a bunch of Germans getting on board with the project and heading up a German branch/version that has its own checks and balances and way to check for plagiarism in the native language.
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December 22, 2013, 03:31:25 PM
 #2811


Thanks for trying to clarify.

I still don't understand it 100%, but new (more general and not necessarily related) questions arise, since I consider myself still a devcoin-noob.

For example this link you gave : http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_translators

I have no idea how I could have ever found this link on my own. What other devtome-site does link to this specific subsite?

That is one of the big problems I have with devtome. I understand there is a lot of knowledge hidden in it, but I really struggle to find all the right articles and lists, because there seems to be no suitable structure behind it, to make it easy for me to find the information I am looking for.

For example I can't even make out on devtome where the separation line is between the wiki-style articles and all the devtome-related articles and discussions that are going on.


I run into this, too. The search function also has limits. The other day I spent at least half an hour looking for this article (http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=where_to_spend_your_cryptocurrencies) with search terms like 'where to spend devcoin,' 'spend devcoin', 'buy with devcoin,' etc. NOTHING. I couldn't remember how I found it, couldn't find a link to it... I finally had to remember one of the names of the actual businesses to get a hit in the top twenty search results.

I think something that would help with this is interlinking articles more when they are relevant. If you see another author's article that you like and is relevant to yours, put a link in the body of your text or 'see more' section ala Wikipedia.

Another thing that could be done is to create new categories for 'opinion pieces,' 'informative articles,' et cetera.
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December 22, 2013, 03:34:18 PM
 #2812

However, it is much harder and more expensive than simply quitting.

I think this a reasonable atonement, however if a majority of admins don't want this then it's off.

It sounds very reasonable. Instead of just dismissing Notabot, it holds him accountable. I think this action also strengthens the community by maintaining its membership instead of just casting out the "unwanted."

I have made a recent error with my articles and instead of just throwing me to the curb, the error was pointed out and, even though it was an honest oversight on my part, I felt better for having the chance to correct it. And as a result of that, there is a possibility of a new category resulting from that issue.

I'm in favor of the atonement of Notabot being proposed by UTB.
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December 22, 2013, 03:48:40 PM
 #2813

About a week ago, plagiarism was found in the articles of Notabot (Fheenix on devtome). It was just after the receiver files were made, so it was too late to regenerate the files. I talked with Notabot, and it turned out he hired a writer who was copying text. He was really sorry about it and wanted to quit. It was many articles, about 220,000 words worth, at an average of 300,000 devcoins per share, it's about 66 million devcoins. Notabot then deleted all those articles from devtome. Notabot was also selling his devcoins, so he has few left and full restitution is impossible. I judged that his repentance was sincere, and so I suggested a way to atone, following in spirit:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=conditional_forgiveness

Notabot would stop selling his devcoins, and send all but 5 million back to people at the end of December, and then send all but 5 million back at the end of the round 30 payment at the end of January. For a year, round 31 to round 42 inclusive, a third of his earnings would be sent back.

This might seem like an easy way off, because this will not pay back all the devcoins. However, it is much harder and more expensive than simply quitting.

I think this a reasonable atonement, however if a majority of admins don't want this then it's off.


For prevention in the future:

I know there are people who search content for plagiarism, since right after I put this up http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=the_trap I got a PM about how I needed to take it down because it was also uploaded to Smashwords, which has a copyright notice. I explained that authors retain copyright at Smashwords and it was already licensed under CC BY-SA, so everything was fine.

Is each and every article run through a web-based plagiarism checker, or do new writers get checked and then there are periodic spot checks? It might be helpful to post this information on the main 'get set up with Devtome' pages so that people can be aware of the process, and it might help discourage people intending the work the system.

As for the penance, I'm a little confused about the 'all but 5 million' part. Notabot later said they would send all earnings and holding nothing back. It does seem better to be held accountable instead of quitting, but I'll leave it to the admins to figure out the particulars. Notabot sounded sincere in their explanation, and I like to believe there will be follow-through, but I also wonder if there is some kind of guarantee that can be placed.

On a note not pertaining directly to Notabot/Fheenix, but plagiarism relating to open-source in general: The good-faith nature of free culture licenses relies on the fact that if someone claims someone else's work as their own, they get called on it and it also depreciates their reputation. This disincentive is less powerful when someone doesn't have a solid, unified web presence (the pseudo-anonymity of screen names). I suppose the only answer I can think of is that if a community acts in integrity in general, and acts in integrity and fairness when cases like this arise, it encourages those who act in good-faith to stick around, and those who don't to drop out.
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December 22, 2013, 04:05:38 PM
 #2814

Thanks for trying to clarify...
Points and questions are good. As I said, Devtome is a work in progress. I’m not the best person to be answering this, so this is all my own take:

Devtome is about building an open-source repository of information, building a revenue generation source to re-invest into Devcoin and projects, and a way to incorporate a much wider interest, audience and user base for cryptos to date and the idea of open-source specifically. For Devcoin that means an underlying support via funding development, but as you note devtome and devcoin are not actually Devcoin exclusive. That’s the point.

I agree that Devtome organisation could be better, but at the same time there’s little point having nicely organised garbage or plagiarised work. I’d assume with time some more plugins could be added to pretty the site and make navigation simpler. I work on categorising articles and organising Devtome, so I’m particularly interested in your perspective on finding articles. Although I appreciate the frontpage could be more simply categorised, to date I’ve just focused on putting it all there to browse.

On translators, that link is on the front page. I assumed people would just look at the tree on the front page - see 'Devtome' - 'Translators' - and go there: http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=start#topics Or alternatively just select 'Devtome' and access a list of relevant devtome articles. Similarly with 'Philosophy' or 'E-Currency' etc. That doesn’t seem to be the case, so I’m interested in why that is?

I also agree that a separate concise summary is necessary to break down core topics - why I’m suggesting a FAQ to be incorporated into Devcoin.org. Devtome isn’t just a wiki as you point out. It’s effectively an amalgamation of a wiki, blog and editorial opinion piece because there's generally no censorship. In terms of ‘earning’ dvc for writing particular articles, compensation is increasingly related to quality and readership, implying the reward for writing an article of little value will over time trend towards that broad consensus as more people get involved and so the incentive to submit them diminishes. I concede that will take time. Many articles are sourced and referenced, many are not. Referencing is now a factor in ratings devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_rater so should improve where appropriate.

Separation of content style - there's been discussion previously on this. It comes down to similar issues to other language sites - resources. Adding a new site or blog that focuses on a particular topic or style requires a whole new set of people and time to do it, and do it properly. I’m somebody who thinks it would be a good idea for a limited target focus, but can also understand the challenging practicalities and potential cost of fragmenting content and resources before enough of a foundation has been laid to get people interested and onboard.

giftculturewriting - The article you mention, it’s listed under ‘devcoin links’, ‘shopping’, ‘business’ etc, but maybe I’m just assuming people know where to look? Ideas are very welcome

eeh - I agree
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December 22, 2013, 04:32:33 PM
 #2815

I know there are people who search content for plagiarism, since right after I put this up http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=the_trap I got a PM about how I needed to take it down because it was also uploaded to Smashwords, which has a copyright notice. I explained that authors retain copyright at Smashwords and it was already licensed under CC BY-SA, so everything was fine.

One of the tasks I perform is to spot check articles and grammar, not to "catch" people like some sort of DevNazi, but to make sure the content is either original or belongs to the writer.

For example, I noticed one person's content was originally posted elsewhere. One solution: 1. On the Devtome page, identify the location of the original post. 2. Go to the location where it was first posted and add a statement "This article is also on Devtome." 3. Take a screenshot of that original post with the Devtome statement in case your Devtome article is ever reviewed or comes under scrutiny. You will now be prepared to give a defense for your Devtome entry. This is not a 100% rule, it's just one route to make sure that folks are using their own content and that the writer is ready to demonstrate it belongs to them.

If an article is clearly your own and it is easily identified that you are the owner with the source clearly pointing to the original material, it really shouldn't be a problem.

GCW, you make a good point about prior ownership of a piece. A few of my own articles are copyrighted and in print. I had to demonstrate that I owned the copyright, which, of course, wasn't difficult. But some people will get frenzied if they find duplicate material out there. If you own it, then just be prepared. On at least two occasions, people have fired off notes to UTB: "AAGGH. He's a plagiarist! His material is in print already." The funny thing is that the material I put up here is even more recent than the print material. And then they wanted proof that I'm the same Ethan Harris as the books. But once that is established with your admin, you do gain a level of trust and it becomes less of a burden if the issue comes up again. If you're a published author, even self-published, you know how long it takes to get a revision to process. On Devtome, you just edit the page. I like the idea that for people who are willing to search, a lot of my content is available open source. It's kind of like an Easter Egg for your audience. And once they are here, they tend to click around. Something like 10% of the people who pop on to my articles click through to other content.

And while I'm thinking about it, there are some writers here who I think should really think of bundling their material to promote Devtome by using Smashwords. Include a front-piece that says something like "This material is freely available on Devtome, the home of content covering a host of genres." Or something like that. My first step in creating accessible, carry-out versions of Devtome content is at the bottom of http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=custer_survivors_101_preface. I want people to take the content, send it to others, pass it around and always know that Devtome is where they got it. Everytime they open the article they should see Devtome as the source. So if anyone has ideas on how to help me track downloads, please let me know. I tried Google Analytics, but it doesn't like the page extensions.
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December 22, 2013, 04:53:48 PM
 #2816

so, can someone answer me this question:

to this date, has anyone ever earned DVC by creating free music or sound?

With free music I mean a composition, and with free sound I mean stuff like noises, voices, etc..

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December 22, 2013, 05:33:11 PM
 #2817

I run into this, too. The search function also has limits. The other day I spent at least half an hour looking for this article (http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=where_to_spend_your_cryptocurrencies) with search terms like 'where to spend devcoin,' 'spend devcoin', 'buy with devcoin,' etc. NOTHING. I couldn't remember how I found it, couldn't find a link to it... I finally had to remember one of the names of the actual businesses to get a hit in the top twenty search results.

I think something that would help with this is interlinking articles more when they are relevant. If you see another author's article that you like and is relevant to yours, put a link in the body of your text or 'see more' section ala Wikipedia.

Another thing that could be done is to create new categories for 'opinion pieces,' 'informative articles,' et cetera.

Here's the full devcoin business link: http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=where_to_spend_your_devcoins

@georgem: No site exists like devtome for music, so nobody has earned DVC from it.  Sad  There are not enough admins for a music site.

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December 22, 2013, 06:09:26 PM
 #2818

@georgem: No site exists like devtome for music, so nobody has earned DVC from it.  Sad  There are not enough admins for a music site.
It's not just that. For art and music in particular, free is not the same as open-source or at least the scale of licensing matters a lot. Open-source means being willing to relinquish the 'source'. Markm wrote about this in the past, that such forms might amount to the core or stepped design process as well as the finished article. So yes that requires people and expertise, but is also requires artists being willing to release the model, layers, components - source. To be able to broadly utilise open-source people have to be ablt to tweak it, change it, adjust it without necessarily going back to the originator. You can't do that with a complied or locked finality without having all the constituent bits that make up the ends. Music and art, musicians and artists, face this challenge. One step at a time...
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December 22, 2013, 06:25:42 PM
 #2819

@georgem: No site exists like devtome for music, so nobody has earned DVC from it.  Sad  There are not enough admins for a music site.
It's not just that. For art and music in particular, free is not the same as open-source or at least the scale of licensing matters a lot. Open-source means being relinquishing the 'source'. Markm wrote about this in the past, that such forms might amount to the core or stepped design process as well as the finished article. So yes that requires people and expertise, but is also requires artists being willing to release the model, layers, components - source. To be able to broadly utilise open-source people have to be ablt to tweak it, change it, adjust it without necessarily going back to the originator. You can't do that with a complied or locked finality without having all the constituent bits that make up the ends.

Yes ok, but wait a minute. If I were to be a voice artist, willing to create copyright free (creative commons) voice samples , does open source in the broader sense mean that I have to give the world access to my vocal chords, so they can tweak my voice the way they like?Huh

At what point does this argument sound completely ridiculous?

I think a devtome for musicians would have to be about free music, meaning the artist has agreed to give the music away for free (well not really, he hopes to earn some DVC) and if available free transcriptions of the notes played (if composition, etc) but open source is not really valid at all with an artform like music, because the musician himself is the source, and he is not going to be able to share his body and spirit not even if he wanted to.

So maybe we shouldn't be so fixed on this definition of open source, because some artforms will simply not work with that definition anyway.

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December 22, 2013, 06:31:03 PM
 #2820

if I create free music, it means I provide the sample materials (WAV files), the midi files, and descriptions about the devices (hardware, software) I used to create that specific sound.
How I distributed the sound on say 8 channels, and what panning, eq and dynamics I used in the mixing. Now THAT does make sense and can be considered open source.

But how do I describe the 10'000 hours I spend training my skills to be able to create the music in the first place?

If "open source" means a person can learn how to reproduce my work, doesn't this mean that he has to learn how to be a professional musician first?
So there is a line that can't be crossed. Open source with music means I explain every step I did, but how do I transmit an explanation for how I moved my vocal chords to create the sound?

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