[DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated

[ranlo]

...
I'd like to propose a bounty for a devcoin auction site.

I'd propose 45 shares, because the animation was around that as well.

Any objections or changes?

An auction site is simply clicking install on an off the shelf auctions system and maybe entering some categories and maybe plugging in some kind of plugin or module that enables cryptocurrencies instead of fiat to be used.

Have to agree with MarkM on this one.

- Nova

+1 here as well. And crypto auction sites haven't been doing too hot either, so I don't see the value in it.

[Flam]

Many guys I know really spent several weeks to see their account validated on mainstream exchanges like Gox or Bitstamp recently. So if you are not into mining and you know there is big delays with the exchanges; an auction site can be an option to jump into crypto coins easily.
Auctions sites are maybe not doing well now (i don't even know one) only because there is not enough people involved in cryptos yet. In a near feature if Ebay doesn't accept cryptos as a payment there will be room for a viable crypto auction site.

PS: maybe you can split the bounty too a part for its creation and another part after some time if the site is successful.

[Wekkel]

Ok, I have two things in this post:

1. testing the Devcoin Android Wallet
2. the discussion about remuneration of Devtome work

==1. Testing the Devcoin Android Wallet ==

Testing was done on the following machines/devices

Windows 8.1 64 bit
Linux (latest Debian)
Android 4.2 (LG G2 and Samsung SII +)

The good news: all tests passed!  
The bad news: it takes some time for most payments to register (about half an hour to an hour). This is general and not related to the Android wallet.



Payments between the Windows wallet (I believe I'm still on 1.0., Linux wallet (0.3.x or something) and Android Wallet (1.0.1) went ok, but it took quite some time for the payment to register. This does not seem to be related to the Android wallet specifically.

Payments between two phones works fine. Payment via QR code is a breeze. It took me some time to find out how NFC payment works. It turns out that the phones really have to touch each others back to make NFC connection. Below are some shots of the Android wallet and video's of two payments between phones.

Screenshots




The look we are accustomed with (at least, I am, having a Bitcoin client and Dogecoin client based on the same wallet). There are several text items and logo's that still refer to Bitcoin. That needs to be sorted out.

For newcomers that want to try out the Android Wallet: in settings tick off the option to seek trusted peers and insert a manual node. I inserted d.evco.in which worked fine.

Video's of payments between phones.

1. QR code (Youtube video): set up a payment, scan the address of the receiving phone with QR code with the device that must send the payment. Easy as pie.

2. NFC code (Youtube video): request a payment, set the amount and send the payment details to the other device that must send the payment. Works fine and the device receiving the payment request does not have to run the Devcoin client. It opens automatically when pushing the payment request over NFC.

This NFC payment was done offline. Both phones were disconnected from Wifi and mobile data. The offline transaction was performed via Bluetooth which worked flawlessly.

If you want to make offline payments via Bluetooth, you must enable this 'experimental' option on both phones in the options menu of the Android Devcoin client.

Conlusion:

• great results
• some tidying up to do (proper logo's, references, removal of 'BTC' and 'Bitcoin')
• fixing the node stuff so a user does not have to insert peers in order to connect upon first use

Sidhujag, you've done great work  

==2. Remuneration of Devtome work==

I followed the intense discussion with interest. I fully understand the argument that there is a discrepancy between payment of development work and Devtome work. Earning some Devcoins with writing is fairly easy with 1,000 words per share. As a Devtome writer, I also question whether writing about very specific topics will bring Devtome (and Devcoin) much further. It would be easy for me to post about what I did each day, but the world would not be interested. Therefore, I limit writing to things that carry some original thoughts and can be used later as reference/faqs for Devcoin education/promotion. Less troubling than the Devs' perspective, I am not happy to see writing that one can call 'drivel' or 'irrelevant' awarded in quantity instead of quality, but that's something I will live with  

This brings me to the suggestion to think about the total amount available for Devtome each round and attaching high value to the number of page views achieved. This does not exclude a user clicking his own link thousand times without spam-detection, but if it works properly, it does entice writers to be careful what to write and for whom. It would give an incentive not to write as many words as possible for earnings, but to write for readers (and a lot of them). This approach also leads to writers wanting to share their work through social media, enhancing page view and - hopefully - quality (unless writers want to send garbage to their connections).

Anyway, my 0.02 Devcoins.

[sidhujag]

Ok, I have two things in this post:

1. testing the Devcoin Android Wallet
2. the discussion about remuneration of Devtome work

==1. Testing the Devcoin Android Wallet ==

Testing was done on the following machines/devices

Windows 8.1 64 bit
Linux (latest Debian)
Android 4.2 (LG G2 and Samsung SII +)

The good news: all tests passed!  
The bad news: it takes some time for most payments to register (about half an hour to an hour). This is general and not related to the Android wallet.



Payments between the Windows wallet (I believe I'm still on 1.0., Linux wallet (0.3.x or something) and Android Wallet (1.0.1) went ok, but it took quite some time for the payment to register. This does not seem to be related to the Android wallet specifically.

Payments between two phones works fine. Payment via QR code is a breeze. It took me some time to find out how NFC payment works. It turns out that the phones really have to touch each others back to make NFC connection. Below are some shots of the Android wallet and video's of two payments between phones.

Screenshots




The look we are accustomed with (at least, I am, having a Bitcoin client and Dogecoin client based on the same wallet). There are several text items and logo's that still refer to Bitcoin. That needs to be sorted out.

For newcomers that want to try out the Android Wallet: in settings tick off the option to seek trusted peers and insert a manual node. I inserted d.evco.in which worked fine.

Video's of payments between phones.

1. QR code (Youtube video): set up a payment, scan the address of the receiving phone with QR code with the device that must send the payment. Easy as pie.

2. NFC code (Youtube video): request a payment, set the amount and send the payment details to the other device that must send the payment. Works fine and the device receiving the payment request does not have to run the Devcoin client. It opens automatically when pushing the payment request over NFC.

This NFC payment was done offline. Both phones were disconnected from Wifi and mobile data. The offline transaction was performed via Bluetooth which worked flawlessly.

If you want to make offline payments via Bluetooth, you must enable this 'experimental' option on both phones in the options menu of the Android Devcoin client.

Conlusion:

• great results
• some tidying up to do (proper logo's, references, removal of 'BTC' and 'Bitcoin')
• fixing the node stuff so a user does not have to insert peers in order to connect upon first use

Sidhujag, you've done great work  

==2. Remuneration of Devtome work==

I followed the intense discussion with interest. I fully understand the argument that there is a discrepancy between payment of development work and Devtome work. Earning some Devcoins with writing is fairly easy with 1,000 words per share. As a Devtome writer, I also question whether writing about very specific topics will bring Devtome (and Devcoin) much further. It would be easy for me to post about what I did each day, but the world would not be interested. Therefore, I limit writing to things that carry some original thoughts and can be used later as reference/faqs for Devcoin education/promotion. Less troubling than the Devs' perspective, I am not happy to see writing that one can call 'drivel' or 'irrelevant' awarded in quantity instead of quality, but that's something I will live with  

This brings me to the suggestion to think about the total amount available for Devtome each round and attaching high value to the number of page views achieved. This does not exclude a user clicking his own link thousand times without spam-detection, but if it works properly, it does entice writers to be careful what to write and for whom. It would give an incentive not to write as many words as possible for earnings, but to write for readers (and a lot of them). This approach also leads to writers wanting to share their work through social media, enhancing page view and - hopefully - quality (unless writers want to send garbage to their connections).

Anyway, my 0.02 Devcoins.

Good work Wekkel.. the peers thing is only temporary until the dns seeds switch to use new clients once merged mining is proven to be working by the pool.

Where are the btc references and logos? I thought I got all of them! The exchange rate in btc is the one I see and its dvc to btc.. actualy there is a bug you should be able to set current currency to usd and it should show dvc usd prices everywhere instead of dvc btc etc...

[ranlo]

@Wekkel - drivel is NOT allowed at all, in case you were under the impression that it is. We've already dealt with multiple people in the past for it, and I can always take in reports as well.

[sidhujag]

...
I'd like to propose a bounty for a devcoin auction site.

I'd propose 45 shares, because the animation was around that as well.

Any objections or changes?

An auction site is simply clicking install on an off the shelf auctions system and maybe entering some categories and maybe plugging in some kind of plugin or module that enables cryptocurrencies instead of fiat to be used.

Have to agree with MarkM on this one.

- Nova

+1 here as well. And crypto auction sites haven't been doing too hot either, so I don't see the value in it.

I think devcoin quibids would be different.. why? because it forces people to register. How? imagine if we set aside say x shares a round and end of the round purchase something to sell via bids and that item is in demand everywhere like ipad or something then it gaurantees people to join and bid.. the breakeven point to say a $400 ipad is something crazy like $50 if I remember.. its a great business model win win for both parties...will you let someome outbid you for a $50 new ipad? No! and anything over is profit for the site.. new features funded via bounties and a network of developers at that point.

Any profit will be used to buy up devcoins on market and hold in reserve or distribute to shareholders or something.

You have to say anyway that spending the shares on this would be alot better exposure for the coin than material on devtome.. actually it will force higher quality materials in devtome once they have to work harder to earn less since ventures like this will eat it up.

Do the analysis risk vs reward how many shares have been put up supporting devtome? Thousands! what were the rewards for devcoin bottom line? Negative something..

Whats the risk with a quibids style site? initial bounty and shares per month and provide instant profit back to devcoin.

[eeh]

I can tell you that I have spent years trying to develop my skills as a writer. I know there are devs out there who have spent just as long, if not longer, refining their own toolset.

My personal strategy is to create material that is not available elsewhere. I want to do draw those people in. I don't think a mindset of writing vs. developing is a fair comparison.

My last eight (or so) submissions have taken no less than 60 hours to produce. When you calculate my earnings, that isn't much compared with what I'm paid professionally to produce training publications.

I'm just putting that out there.

[Wekkel]

[...] Android Devcoin client.

Conlusion:

• great results
• some tidying up to do (proper logo's, references, removal of 'BTC' and 'Bitcoin')
• fixing the node stuff so a user does not have to insert peers in order to connect upon first use

[...]

Where are the btc references and logos? I thought I got all of them! The exchange rate in btc is the one I see and its dvc to btc.. actualy there is a bug you should be able to set current currency to usd and it should show dvc usd prices everywhere instead of dvc btc etc...

I will try to list them all. If necessary, I can make photos:

• Main page reads: 'Your Bitcoin address'
• Main page: send payment and request payment refer to 'Bitcoin'
• Page request for payment: seems like the Dogecoin logo? If not, I prefer the official green logo. 2nd: top of the screen refers to request for BitcoinsOne extra remark, upon opening this page, the program asks me whether it can access Bluetooth. This is because I ticked the experimental option of offline Bluetooth payments. It is a little annoying that the software asks me whether to allow access to Bluetooth, but if I decline, the same question keeps popping up no matter how many times I decline. That's why they call it 'experimental' I guess  
• Page request for payment -> menu -> Help: this text still refers to Bitcoin
• Page send payment: Again seems like the Dogecoin logo? 2nd: top of the screen refers to payment of Bitcoins
• Main page: link to safety guidelines: guidelines refer to Bitcoin

Other remark: pinning the exchange rate to something else than BTC does not work yet. I chose USD (pinned) but the main page still shows the price in BTC.

@Wekkel - drivel is NOT allowed at all, in case you were under the impression that it is. We've already dealt with multiple people in the past for it, and I can always take in reports as well.

Let me specify: the earlier example of an article like famous Jazz artists of the 60's is what I am talking about. That should not deter a Jazz fan from writing that stuff, but who will read it and what is the connection to development? Again, it's just how I feel about it, not necessarily someone else.

[Bittzy78]

Everytime I view the main Devtome page I get the impression that something didn't load correctly or something from the site is missing or possibly not completed. Would it be possible to spruce the front page up a little bit? I suggest the following...


1. Move the most recent article section to another page or below the topics section.

2. Have a nice big Devcoin/Devtome logo that has the slogan for Devcoin incorporated into it.

3. Have a featured article above or below the logo instead of the long string of recent ones.

4. Have "earn free Devcoins" etc hovering around the logo so that it is impossible to miss.

5. Work some type of link above or below the logo that monetizes the front page in a better fashion.


I am not saying that it should look like the main Wikipedia page, it just needs a little more pop.


Bittzy78

[dalamar96]

I can tell you that I have spent years trying to develop my skills as a writer. I know there are devs out there who have spent just as long, if not longer, refining their own toolset.

My personal strategy is to create material that is not available elsewhere. I want to do draw those people in. I don't think a mindset of writing vs. developing is a fair comparison.

My last eight (or so) submissions have taken no less than 60 hours to produce. When you calculate my earnings, that isn't much compared with what I'm paid professionally to produce training publications.

I'm just putting that out there.

Agreed, the time it is taking me to do the second story (and it is just a back story) is pretty long. I have a lot of ideas for future parts and what not to the series, but it takes time to get them all linked and on the same timeline and not have errors.

[dalamar96]

Everytime I view the main Devtome page I get the impression that something didn't load correctly or something from the site is missing or possibly not completed. Would it be possible to spruce the front page up a little bit? I suggest the following...


1. Move the most recent article section to another page or below the topics section.

2. Have a nice big Devcoin/Devtome logo that has the slogan for Devcoin incorporated into it.

3. Have a featured article above or below the logo instead of the long string of recent ones.

4. Have "earn free Devcoins" etc hovering around the logo so that it is impossible to miss.

5. Work some type of link above or below the logo that monetizes the front page in a better fashion.


I am not saying that it should look like the main Wikipedia page, it just needs a little more pop.


Bittzy78

I also agree with this! There has to be a better layout for the main entry page of the Wiki.  I like some of Bittzy's ideas and I think there is more we can do with it.

[Bittzy78]

Everytime I view the main Devtome page I get the impression that something didn't load correctly or something from the site is missing or possibly not completed. Would it be possible to spruce the front page up a little bit? I suggest the following...


1. Move the most recent article section to another page or below the topics section.

2. Have a nice big Devcoin/Devtome logo that has the slogan for Devcoin incorporated into it.

3. Have a featured article above or below the logo instead of the long string of recent ones.

4. Have "earn free Devcoins" etc hovering around the logo so that it is impossible to miss.

5. Work some type of link above or below the logo that monetizes the front page in a better fashion.


I am not saying that it should look like the main Wikipedia page, it just needs a little more pop.


Bittzy78

I also agree with this! There has to be a better layout for the main entry page of the Wiki.  I like some of Bittzy's ideas and I think there is more we can do with it.

I am only saying this because if you look at the recent Google analytics, Devtome could be moving into some very elite traffic territory within the next several months. The site just needs to represent that coming eliteness.


http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_analytics

[unclejed613]

I have heard that some musicians offer at least some of their music free on the net.

Do any of them do so in actual free open source form?

If so maybe we could somehow find out whether any of them spends at least ten hours per week producing free open source music and if we find such a person offer to put them on the receivers list?

Hopefully it would be someone famous, isn't it the famous ones that find piracy and freebies increase their sales rather than lowering them, due to so much of their work not being free yet available all over the place, so that people who learn from the free material that they like the artist's work then see all kinds of similar work in all the stores and now know they will probably like it?

Famous would mean newsworthy so it would be win-win.

But I am not really confident that any of the famous musicians who give away freebies actually license those freebies as free open source...

(So they are not really free afterall, except in the "as in beer not as in real freedom" sense... Gratis rather than actual freedom...)

-MarkM-

http://www.mahoganyrush.com/    i used to listen to this band when i was in high school.... Frank Marino thinks musicians would do better to put their music up on the web in free downloadable form rather than try to make a living from album sales.  record companies (and their "parent organizations" have definitely left a bad taste in his mouth. Frank Marino believes the best way to make a living as a musician is to actually go and play concerts (which as a musician, he loves to do...)   as a long time rocker, i would rather see a band play live than listen to recordings, but it's the recordings that make me want to see the band play live...... i know it's the opposite of the way the music industry was originally set up (it was Thomas Edison that started the whole thing after all.... ), but in the "internet age" there are things that need to be changed, and maybe even turned upside down....

[markm]

I have heard that some musicians offer at least some of their music free on the net.

Do any of them do so in actual free open source form?

If so maybe we could somehow find out whether any of them spends at least ten hours per week producing free open source music and if we find such a person offer to put them on the receivers list?

Hopefully it would be someone famous, isn't it the famous ones that find piracy and freebies increase their sales rather than lowering them, due to so much of their work not being free yet available all over the place, so that people who learn from the free material that they like the artist's work then see all kinds of similar work in all the stores and now know they will probably like it?

Famous would mean newsworthy so it would be win-win.

But I am not really confident that any of the famous musicians who give away freebies actually license those freebies as free open source...

(So they are not really free afterall, except in the "as in beer not as in real freedom" sense... Gratis rather than actual freedom...)

-MarkM-

http://www.mahoganyrush.com/    i used to listen to this band when i was in high school.... Frank Marino thinks musicians would do better to put their music up on the web in free downloadable form rather than try to make a living from album sales.  record companies (and their "parent organizations" have definitely left a bad taste in his mouth. Frank Marino believes the best way to make a living as a musician is to actually go and play concerts (which as a musician, he loves to do...)   as a long time rocker, i would rather see a band play live than listen to recordings, but it's the recordings that make me want to see the band play live...... i know it's the opposite of the way the music industry was originally set up (it was Thomas Edison that started the whole thing after all.... ), but in the "internet age" there are things that need to be changed, and maybe even turned upside down....

So the tracks available there are free to use? For example we could put them on our music-archive site when we create such a site?

And our visitors could in turn grab them from us to use on their own sites, to chop up into soundbites, make dub-mixes of and so on and so on?

It didn't seem to shout loudly right up front exactly what form of free open source license it is releasing the material under...

-MarkM-

[Papacrusher]

I have a technical question from a non-technical person  .  My daughter has become very interested in DVC.  We live in the same household and use the same internet and router.  She is wanting to download her own DVC wallet and apply for an account with Devtome.  Will using the same internet and router cause any issues?  Thanks

Papa

[Hunterbunter]

I can tell you that I have spent years trying to develop my skills as a writer. I know there are devs out there who have spent just as long, if not longer, refining their own toolset.

My personal strategy is to create material that is not available elsewhere. I want to do draw those people in. I don't think a mindset of writing vs. developing is a fair comparison.

My last eight (or so) submissions have taken no less than 60 hours to produce. When you calculate my earnings, that isn't much compared with what I'm paid professionally to produce training publications.

I'm just putting that out there.

Hey eeh,

I don't think anyone is saying writers aren't working many hours to produce quality stuff, as far as I can see they're taking advantage of the system as intended. The question, is whether it's having the intended impact or not, and what the goal metrics used to judge this are.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with putting an emphasis or priority on any aspect of open source work, be it writing or developing or anything else, but wouldn't having a rational, and even a scientific or business approach to investment vs reward serve the project, and everyone connected to it, better in the long run?

[Hunterbunter]

I have a technical question from a non-technical person  .  My daughter has become very interested in DVC.  We live in the same household and use the same internet and router.  She is wanting to download her own DVC wallet and apply for an account with Devtome.  Will using the same internet and router cause any issues?  Thanks

Papa

Absolutely none at all, although you will need wallets on different computers. I don't think the devcoin client works very well with different folders atm..at least I couldn't get it to work properly myself.

[weisoq]

Everytime I view the main Devtome page I get the impression that something didn't load correctly or something from the site is missing or possibly not completed. Would it be possible to spruce the front page up a little bit? I suggest the following...

1. Move the most recent article section to another page or below the topics section.

2. Have a nice big Devcoin/Devtome logo that has the slogan for Devcoin incorporated into it.

3. Have a featured article above or below the logo instead of the long string of recent ones.

4. Have "earn free Devcoins" etc hovering around the logo so that it is impossible to miss.

5. Work some type of link above or below the logo that monetizes the front page in a better fashion.


I am not saying that it should look like the main Wikipedia page, it just needs a little more pop.

I also agree with this! There has to be a better layout for the main entry page of the Wiki.  I like some of Bittzy's ideas and I think there is more we can do with it.

I'll just post this again in case missed a couple of days ago. Basically it needs more involvement to move ideas into action.

...a lot of that (indexing, visuals, categorisation etc) is already doable via dokuwiki plugins but (semi-quoting jasinlee who maintains devtome) it needs someone proficient in php to fix bugs as they add plugins and ongoing. If you google dokuwiki plugins and other dokuwiki sites there's a lot out there, but it's open source and often never debugged.

This is why it's such a laborious, manual process with not great functionality, and always playing catchup with categorising. Focus still is going through all exisiting writing to check the basics let alone improvements.

Anything to improve things would be great by me, so good suggestion for ideas.

Edit: Also want to add that much of what you see on devtome is still in the process of working through checks for categorising, formatting, content. On top of dealing with new articles, giftculturewriting is working from existing Z-A and I'm on A-Z. Speaking for myself, I'm still on A...

I know gift has some good ideas for better front page presentation and usability, but for now it's basically just a tree of topics - categories - subcategories -articles to make the process above quicker and easier, and can then just work on rolling new submissions and look at visuals.

If anyone has ideas (sticking with existing dokuwiki functionality and syntax for now as that's what there is) then please suggest them. It's taking a long time and we just haven't had time to get into that yet.

On the Devtome compensation issue, again to be clear I'm only referring to justifying relative earnings and not any view on writer's skillset or efforts.

[sidhujag]

I can tell you that I have spent years trying to develop my skills as a writer. I know there are devs out there who have spent just as long, if not longer, refining their own toolset.

My personal strategy is to create material that is not available elsewhere. I want to do draw those people in. I don't think a mindset of writing vs. developing is a fair comparison.

My last eight (or so) submissions have taken no less than 60 hours to produce. When you calculate my earnings, that isn't much compared with what I'm paid professionally to produce training publications.

I'm just putting that out there.

Hey eeh,

I don't think anyone is saying writers aren't working many hours to produce quality stuff, as far as I can see they're taking advantage of the system as intended. The question, is whether it's having the intended impact or not, and what the goal metrics used to judge this are.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with putting an emphasis or priority on any aspect of open source work, be it writing or developing or anything else, but wouldn't having a rational, and even a scientific or business approach to investment vs reward serve the project, and everyone connected to it, better in the long run?

Exactly since it is traded it makes sense to align goals that will appease shareholders ie holders of the currency. If you decide to dump at market then your loss as your no longer aligned with the interests of the project.. with this is mind if we align our interests and decisions as business rationale then devtome is an economically dependent as a child and hasnt provided any benefit to shareholders more like shareholders have been forced to support writers as they dump. Instead those that write amd hold will benefit especially if we start to have businesses that bring in profit like an auction site or the such.

[markm]

If you are willing to risk leaving coins on an exchange (e.g. Vircurex, that has made good both times they did suffer a hack) you don't even need to hold, you can just chop up your coins into, say, ten portions, and place then as ten sell offers on the sell side of the order book.

If you are conservative and think the next few upswings might not touch 200 Satoshis but don't mind waiting through maybe a bunch of upswings to get such a price you could pick 200 as top spot, or if you actually would prefer to hold long term yet would like to get a nice hot price sometime you could pick 300 as your top spot if getting that much would compensate you enough in your view for having even your topmost dearest coins get bought.

Then step down, like maybe 200, 180, 160, 140, 120, 100, 90, 80, 70, 60 or something like that.

Or if you really want ten percent relatively soon albeit at a low price, maybe even step down to 50, which still looks like it might easily get bought any day now on random ups and downs.

Personally I have half a million for sale at each and every Satoshi of price all the way to up over 300 but it took me a long time to get there, a lot of input coins originally then at least three or four swing cycles that went up near or over 200, one of them over 300 then back down to 30 or even slightly less.

(I replenish my supply by having lowball buy offers on every Satoshi of price too, with the offers being for more and more coins the lower the price. I have picked up oodles of coins at only 30 Satoshis or less by my offers having been there already in place when such moments - or weeks, or months - came.)

Once you have gone through a swing cycle you can easily get all your original input to the exchange back out and from then on all the coins "at risk" by being on the exhange are pure profit earned by being on the exchange, plus then also milk it some each swing cycle to get some added income while still also increasing the volume of pure profit left lying around on the exchange to make more pure profit with...

This also has the advantage of making times when the prices go low be nice times, times you look forward to, because they are times when your lowball buy offers get gobbled up, giving you lots and lots of coins to sit back up on the sell side as highball offers ready for the next upswing.

Plus Vircurex even pays you to have bitcoins sitting there, so your lowball offers are earning bitcoins for you in the meantime.

You can also save on Vircurex fees by signing up using a referral URL.

( Such as mine, which is https://vircurex.com/welcome/index?referral_id=597-1636 )

-MarkM-