[2017-11-02] Banks staying away from bitcoin 'bubble' due to money laundering

[Beef Coin]

Banks are staying away from bitcoin 'bubble' due to money laundering, Credit Suisse CEO says

• Banks are reluctant to get involved with bitcoin due to fears of a bubble and illicit activity associated with it, Tidjane Thiam said Thursday
• The banking executive's comments came as the digital currency surpassed $7,000 for the first time
• ING CFO Koos Timmermans also weighed in on cryptocurrencies, saying that the bank is not recommending clients to invest in digital assets

Banks have "little or no appetite" to get involved with bitcoin and cryptocurrencies due to fears of a bubble and illicit activity associated with it, the chief executive of Credit Suisse said Thursday.

"I think most banks in the current state of regulation have little or no appetite to get involved in a currency which has such anti-money laundering challenges," Tidjane Thiam said at a news conference, according to Reuters.

The banking executive's comments came as the digital currency surpassed $7,000 for the first time.

Thiam added that investors were only buying into the digital asset "to make money," and described it as "the very definition of speculation and the very definition of a bubble."

The chief financial officer of ING also weighed in on cryptocurrency worries Thursday, saying that, although digital assets are an effective means of exchange, the bank was not advising clients to in invest in them.

"Well, we are quite careful on this part, so if you ask, 'Are we advising our clients to invest in this?' the answer is no," Koos Timmermans told CNBC Thursday.

"We see the superiority of cryptocurrencies in terms of a means of exchange, so that part is fine. But if you then say, 'Can you easily attach future value to it?' — and that's one of the main functions of currency — that is rather difficult because you still don't know how much the supply of this currency is connected to the demand, we don't know what the interest rates are."

But analysts believe that more institutional investors will begin to get involved with cryptocurrencies, after CME Group said it would introduce bitcoin futures contracts.

"Futures from an incumbent exchange bring bitcoin and cryptocurrencies into the regulatory fold," Charles Hayter, CEO of cryptocurrency comparison website Crypto Compare, told CNBC in an email Thursday.

"This allows more complex financial products to be created and will eventually open the doors to institutional money."

Source: m/2017/11/02/credit-suisse-ceo-banks-staying-away-from-bitcoin-bubble.html]C[Suspicious link removed]m

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[aso118]

A lot of bankers have been convicted for aiding money laundering. If the banks have been in the business for so long, they should be able to develop procedures to minimize this risk. They deal with cash, don't they?

[matuson]

It is just talk. Bitcoin has no crime. Banks on the contrary help the criminals to move and launder illicit capital. They are against bitcoin because it is losing its relevance. Bitcoin is more advantageous and convenient means for storage and movement of capital. The banks will die. We don't need them.

[Marucya]

Banks almost vseravno on what their customers are using their money. They are afraid of crypto currency, not because of the possibility of their use for money laundering. First of all they are afraid that the crypto currency will take away their clients, and with them a significant part of the profits.

[Spaffin]

This is one of the traditional variants of far-fetched statements by representatives of large banks to justify their unwillingness to use crypto currency as digital money and a means of payment. In fact, banks are afraid of losing their profits due to the fact that their customers will switch to the use of crypto currency.

[Carlton Banks]

All that money laundering laws ever did was enable the most rich and politically connected criminals to keep their profits with impunity.

Bitcoin simply levels the playing field; if billionaires and international officials (UN, IMF etc) can avoid paying any tax, and organised crime bosses (with government friends) and military intelligence can ignore the implications of money laundering, then why should anyone have to live by these so-called laws?

[warrior333]

About money laundering with bitcoin it's all a lie. Illegal money in the world much more than the market capitalization of bitcoin. Bankers invent tales in order to create a negative image of bitcoin. Their true goal is to destroy bitcoin because they can't compete with him. Bitcoin has proved more profitable investment. Banks can now only lend, but they need to attract their money. Where they take them? Another 1-2 years and a global banking crisis. Don't forget to have time to withdraw their deposits.

[error08]

Banks has the right to be skeptical about bitcoin due to price volatility. They can recommending clients to not invest in bitcoin, but people can do whatever they want.
On the other hand, banksters opinion seems biased because bitcoin-blockchain may become their rival in monetary system. Bitcoin can't fulfill all the services which banks offers, but bitcoin has its advantages, so it's better to use bank and bitcoin.

[buwaytress]

This is rich, coming from Credit Suisse! Money laundering and tax evasion have been its chief headline-grabbing activities since the 1990s. We're not talking about chump change either, even if we only look at their latest scandal from April, they're guilty of assisting and abetting more than 50,000 accounts worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

It's an extremely lucrative business for banks like Credit Suisse - they've made a lot more than the $5 billion in fines they've already paid out for money laundering crimes. Even the combined forces of dark markets and bitcoin mixers would struggle to compete with the fiat turnover at CS.

The real reason Bitcoin isn't suitable for big banks is that it complicates money laundering.

[BTCexpert1]

always bank against bitcoin but till now bitcoin price talk and say banker are in wrong site

[gemelnik]

That's true.... The only thing I personally don't like about bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general is that they provide amazing place for money laundring, criminal activities etc..... Crypto gives moral people a lot of benefits ---like saving taxes, being independent...etc. But it comes with its downsides...just like everything else.

[iamTom123]

A lot of bankers have been convicted for aiding money laundering. If the banks have been in the business for so long, they should be able to develop procedures to minimize this risk. They deal with cash, don't they?

Banks and their people these days are getting to be good in criticizing Bitcoin and yet they know that fiat money has been used in money laundering more than cryptocurrency...have they analyzed the data they would realized that they are just as stupid as the many governments who are afraid of something they can't control. These banks are afraid that one day they would be facing less business all because the market has been raided by Bitcoin and other coins. Certainly, right now, things are not yet perfect for cryptocurrency but time is coming when things can get better and banks would be affected by these changes. They just have to wait for that and experience the kind of horror all because they are not prepared. Banks should be innovating and should instead be partners with cryptocurrency...instead many choose to put up a good fight...let's see which side can eventually win!

[The Cryptologist]

A lot of bankers have been convicted for aiding money laundering. If the banks have been in the business for so long, they should be able to develop procedures to minimize this risk. They deal with cash, don't they?

Banks and their people these days are getting to be good in criticizing Bitcoin and yet they know that fiat money has been used in money laundering more than cryptocurrency...have they analyzed the data they would realized that they are just as stupid as the many governments who are afraid of something they can't control. These banks are afraid that one day they would be facing less business all because the market has been raided by Bitcoin and other coins. Certainly, right now, things are not yet perfect for cryptocurrency but time is coming when things can get better and banks would be affected by these changes. They just have to wait for that and experience the kind of horror all because they are not prepared. Banks should be innovating and should instead be partners with cryptocurrency...instead many choose to put up a good fight...let's see which side can eventually win!

It's either they join the new system or die fighting. They always talk about money laundering when they can't stop money laundering in banks and possibly secretly doing it when nobody is around.

[JLCoin]

Fair enough. It's too bad that people can't be trusted on good faith alone.

[FrueGreads]

I always laugh every time I see news like this. If we look at the top money laundry cases of the century, we see that banks normally get involved in it, so how can they accuse bitcoin of being used for money laundry, when we already heard reports from the FBI saying that money laundry with bitcoin is minimal and is not really a concern to them, and they are only worried about the use of BTC for cyber crime.

As for money laundry cases we have:

- HSBC with an estimated £5.57 billion

- The island of Nauru with an estimated £53.7 billion. Banks on this Island were allowed to function without verifying the identities of its customers or questioning where deposited money came from

- Standard Chartered - estimated £191.8 billion (again a bank)

- Wachovia - estimated £292.5 billion (again one of the biggest banks in America before its acquisition by Wells Fargo in 2008)

Their accusations are just ridiculous as usual.

[DannaWonder]

Banking industry will definitely give negative remarks about bitcoin since they sees it as a competition. Once Bitcoin becomes successful and  accepted by most of the people banking industry will definitely suffer. They are already losing profit from money transfer business and will loose more if more businesses will accept bitcoin as a mode of payment since it will be more convenient to use bitcoin than credit cards on doing payments.

Expect more statements like these in the future from bank executives.

[Proton2233]

I have a dual attitude to such statements. On the one hand I believe that bitcoin will really force banks to change their monetary policy or to leave the market. On the other hand it could mean that the bankers will start a war against bitcoin. They will use their capital and connections with politicians in order to ban bitcoin.

[Carlton Banks]

bankers will start a war against bitcoin. They will use their capital and connections with politicians in order to ban bitcoin.

They've had a long time to do it, and no external actor has ever succeeded in obstructing Bitcoin's progress, bank or not (it's unknown whether any of the various attempts to de-rail Bitcoin have been sponsored by banks in any way).

And it's not just commercial banks that lose where Bitcoin gains; governments, central banks and card payment providers also lose revenues or business to Bitcoin adoption. That's a line up of exceptionally powerful adversaries. But Bitcoin has continued without serious setbacks for nearly 9 years now, and certainly no interruptions from any credible legal bans, or any other type of ban. Satoshi thought long and hard about how to make Bitcoin's design untouchable, and did a very good job.

[bubblebit]

Bankers are making excuses again and pointing bitcoin as a tool in crimes like money laundering is nothing but a desperate move just to get away with the pressure from cryptocurrency customers for them to support it but they’re doing the opposite.

If they don’t want bitcoin in the first place they should have speak about it since before but why now that bitcoin price is highly increasing and paint bitcoin negatively. But it won’t work and this strategy wouldn’t buy consensus to the society because we are already aware of what is the truth. That cash/fiat money has been used many times in those crimes more than bitcoin.

[richardsNY]

If they don’t want bitcoin in the first place they should have speak about it since before but why now that bitcoin price is highly increasing and paint bitcoin negatively. But it won’t work and this strategy wouldn’t buy consensus to the society because we are already aware of what is the truth. That cash/fiat money has been used many times in those crimes more than bitcoin.

Back in the early days banks were likely assuming that people would abandon Bitcoin and everything related to crypto, but now the adoption is increasing significantly, and that in a very short period of time, they finally start to take it serious. And yes, blackmailing Bitcoin won't work anymore -- they are too late for that. Ultimately, we shouldn't be surprised to see them act like this, because they very well understand that Bitcoin has the potential to disrupt their entire way of operating. Let them talk as much as they want, their words hold no actual value since we know it comes from their desperation.

[Extr22]

Generally all banks have negative sign about bitcoin may be changed next 10 years (when support blockchain)

[TheKeyLongThumbI]

Generally all banks have negative sign about bitcoin may be changed next 10 years (when support blockchain)

I don't think it's going to 10 years because just look how awareness in bitcoin spreading fast. I would say that these anti-bitcoin bank will surrender to bitcoin in 3-4 years.

[AlexandrInt]

Generally all banks have negative sign about bitcoin may be changed next 10 years (when support blockchain)

I don't think it's going to 10 years because just look how awareness in bitcoin spreading fast. I would say that these anti-bitcoin bank will surrender to bitcoin in 3-4 years.

Banks can not harm bitcoin. They are powerless in this. And I think that soon people will understand that it is better to use crypto currency. And then the banks will definitely become useless

[onrise]

Generally all banks have negative sign about bitcoin may be changed next 10 years (when support blockchain)

Bank have their own channel of operations and btc does not fit into that. Due to which they are not considering it. If for a process to change they would be diagnosing the risk that might be involved and would be considering a huge risk in that due to which they might want to stay away in future as well.

[darkangel11]

Banks are reluctant to get involved with bitcoin due to fears of a bubble and illicit activity associated with it, Tidjane Thiam said Thursday

It's that idiot who said that people are trading BTC to earn money and that's why it's in a bubble. This means that the whole Wall Street is in a bubble for like 100 years... Guy has no idea what he's talking about. Banks are staying away from BTC not because of some money laundering issues but the fact that they are not needed as a participant in crypto transactions. There's no place for them in the ecosystem.

[ApocalypseNow]

That's not a problem because they are going to be useless when bitcoin rules the financial world. Let them stay away because everyone knows that bitcoin is a huge threat to them and that is the reason they act like this.

[Domenc]

This seems like an another negative take of centralized banks on bitcoin . Just finding more ways to defend themselves and to degrade the image of bitcoin .
Money laundering has stayed in the society from a very long time even when there were no bitcoin . Bitcoin is not the sole reason giving initiative to money laundering . It's just the laws and the regulations set by the banks and the corruption associated with bankers that is ultimately going to wipe money laundering . If government is so resisting toward bitcoin because of this thing , then they always have ways to regulate this instead of avoiding it .
The truth is that the banks are too lame and ignorant to understand bitcoin.       

[Carlton Banks]

Money laundering has stayed in the society from a very long time even when there were no bitcoin.

No it hasn't, money laundering has only existed for less than around 75 years, maybe less than that.

[Lm2e4]

I guess illicit activity associated through use of bitcoin is not only the reason why they are staying away. Because natural money do the same. Maybe they just don't wanted to get involved now because they still can't see it as a stable currency that will last the way normal currency does. As the supply of this currency is dependent on the demand, and yet they still don't know the count of demand. But I can sight a little interest of banks on bitcoin! just a little.  

[augmentedinvestor]

In my opinion, scare-mongering at its finest through confounding the issue. Writing off Bitcoin for money-laundering is contradictory coming from banks.

But I can also understand from the bank's perspective that they need to release news like this to create perception that they are doing everything they can to avoid being associated with money-laundering because almost all banks fall susceptible to it in some way and potential fines/shareholder value is on the table.

[Xabad]

We can't blame those banks if they are avoiding the evil side of Bitcoin, since it was used before and is still being used for some illegal activities, which is easier for bad people to do because of its anonymity. But still even in the money on this banks illegal activities still happens.

[Argoo]

The fact that banks stay away from bitcoins because they can be used to launder dirty money is not entirely correct. Banks simply do not want to introduce bitcoin and other crypto currency due to the fact that they are afraid of losing customers and, in this connection, their profits. So they come up with all sorts of reasons to blacken bitcoin. It's vseravno that the client refuses to serve the bank because of the fact that he can be a criminal. But they do not. However, their efforts are vain. Bitcoin receives more and more popular support and the banks will have to accept this.

[Spaffin]

Here the banks are clearly pursuing their goal - to defame bitcoin. The fact is that it is not profitable for banks to distribute bitcoin and increasing support from the community. They know that in this case they will lose customers and their profits. So they try as they can. And the best reason to say that it can be used for criminal purposes.

[bubblebit]

If they don’t want bitcoin in the first place they should have speak about it since before but why now that bitcoin price is highly increasing and paint bitcoin negatively. But it won’t work and this strategy wouldn’t buy consensus to the society because we are already aware of what is the truth. That cash/fiat money has been used many times in those crimes more than bitcoin.

Back in the early days banks were likely assuming that people would abandon Bitcoin and everything related to crypto, but now the adoption is increasing significantly, and that in a very short period of time, they finally start to take it serious. And yes, blackmailing Bitcoin won't work anymore -- they are too late for that. Ultimately, we shouldn't be surprised to see them act like this, because they very well understand that Bitcoin has the potential to disrupt their entire way of operating. Let them talk as much as they want, their words hold no actual value since we know it comes from their desperation.

That is what we called “overconfidence”. They literally ignore something that have the big potential to hurt them and that time/year is 2017. It was well known to the community those CEO’s of major banks are criticising cryptocurrency but instead of decreasing its price, it rapidly increases that is not highly expected on they’re behalf. In this kind of war between two system, banking and blockchain the winner will always be the one supported by the people.