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Author Topic: There might be another virtual currency following BTC  (Read 6534 times)
hugolp
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June 29, 2011, 08:53:59 AM
 #21

If there is, it better be efficient on these ATI cards.

Wonder if making a new mine-able currency efficient on ATI cards would be a good thing or a bad thing. Would you want a HUGE jump in hashing power from all the Bitcoin miners switching over? Or maybe make it super efficient on the old 3DFx cards, just for fun  Cheesy

It does not matter. If suddenly a new miner software allowed the miners to do hashing at double speed, everybody would switch, difficultry would double and everything would remain the same.
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Fuzzy
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June 29, 2011, 11:22:41 AM
 #22

If there is, it better be efficient on these ATI cards.

Wonder if making a new mine-able currency efficient on ATI cards would be a good thing or a bad thing. Would you want a HUGE jump in hashing power from all the Bitcoin miners switching over? Or maybe make it super efficient on the old 3DFx cards, just for fun  Cheesy

It does not matter. If suddenly a new miner software allowed the miners to do hashing at double speed, everybody would switch, difficultry would double and everything would remain the same.

I meant a new currency to compete with bitcoin, in which the algorithm for mining just so happened to be 10x faster on a 3dfx Voodoo card than the next leading mining chip.

Would love to see everyone rushing and digging though their old hardware, dusting off their old PCI / AGP based VooDoo cards. Hilarity would ensue...

Actually, the Voodoo 5 6000 is so rare, you could easily trade one in for a 6990 today. Nothing funny about that.
killer2021
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June 29, 2011, 01:13:46 PM
 #23

I want one that ain't limited Roll Eyes to 21 mill .

Who says you can't do a, "stock split" with bitcoin?

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June 29, 2011, 02:19:50 PM
 #24

"Now i would like a currency that looses some value over time to make wealth holders spend it on things that get profit and not sit on them. I Think currency shouldn't be a wealth storing medium."

Leaving aside the problematic rationale about what effect such a currency would have on wealth holders, I suspect pocket-change blockchain-based currencies might serve. For example much as I would like bitNicKeLs to forever grow in value, it seems likely that if they do in fact seem to be doing so umpteen imitators would appear, competing for the same userbase, resulting in small-change blockchain-based currencies in general tending to stay relatively small in value and quite possibly generally tend to decline in value (at least those of them that ever actually managed to aquire any value to potentially be able to lose).

Thoughts such as that are part of what leads me to think that having quite a few blockchain-based currencies in play should tend to help the original bitcoins to grow in value instead of tending to cause all blockchain based currencies, or the original bitcoins in particular, to decline in value.

Basically I am thinking that maybe if small-change / pocket-change blockchain based currencies are seen not to hold value very well, the strong value-retaining performance of 'the real thing' (meaning bitcoins, not pepsicolgatepalmolivecoin or colacoin or whatever used to be a real thing in adspeak once upon a time) might cause the 'real thing' (actual bitcoins) to gain cachet as notably a 'blue chip' blockchain-based currency.

The 'legend' built around the Freeciv Galactic Milieu blockchain-based currencies aims at furthering such perceptions by maintaining that the Hacker nation, originator of Bitcoin, that uses Bitcoins as national currency, is far more advanced than the Martians, whose Martian BotCoin is upheld by far more powerful technology than that possessed by the Brits and Canucks, and so on, with bitNicKeLs being so puny they are typically only worth about 1/20 of a UKB or CDN...

-MarkM-

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jtimon
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June 29, 2011, 06:57:41 PM
 #25

Now i would like a currency that looses some value over time to make wealth holders spend it on things that get profit and not sit on them. I Think currency shouldn't be a wealth storing medium.

Inflation benefits the people that have more wealth because it props up their assets, while it goes against the people that earn a wage (usually the middle class and the poor) because it devaluates their wages. The basic mistake you are making is believing the wealthy keep their wealth in currency. They dont.

Inlfation is not the only way to discourage storing wealth in currency. Maybe he just wants freicoin.

2 different forms of free-money: Freicoin (free of basic interest because it's perishable), Mutual credit (no interest because it's abundant)
qed
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June 30, 2011, 07:37:36 AM
 #26

I think there will be other virtual currency based on BTC concept.
Namecoin came up, and it is basically BTC, with a little twist.
What's to stop another currency to pop up?
Just some thoughts

The fail of Namecoin.

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Andrew Vorobyov
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June 30, 2011, 12:20:28 PM
 #27

Inflation benefits the people that have more wealth because it props up their assets, while it goes against the people that earn a wage (usually the middle class and the poor) because it devaluates their wages. The basic mistake you are making is believing the wealthy keep their wealth in currency. They dont.

I don't care who will profit - rich or poor - from inflation currency.

In order to have big enough lending activity people should be discouraged from storing value in currency for long term.

If wealthy do not keep their wealth in currency - objective met. If they are running successful businesses - they have right to be wealthy.



finnthecelt
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June 30, 2011, 01:04:05 PM
 #28

Inflation benefits the people that have more wealth because it props up their assets, while it goes against the people that earn a wage (usually the middle class and the poor) because it devaluates their wages. The basic mistake you are making is believing the wealthy keep their wealth in currency. They dont.

I don't care who will profit - rich or poor - from inflation currency.

In order to have big enough lending activity people should be discouraged from storing value in currency for long term.

If wealthy do not keep their wealth in currency - objective met. If they are running successful businesses - they have right to be wealthy.




Another enabler....... Seems you haven't put a lot of study into the monetary systems of the world and how one becomes uber wealthy. Their goal is to own nearly everything and make you a slave. At least they want to own everything that can be the facilitator of some type of transaction fee. Indenturing the world....

You're ok with this?
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June 30, 2011, 03:24:51 PM
 #29

"Now i would like a currency that looses [sic] some value over time to make wealth holders spend it on things that get profit and not sit on them.
Some "gift cards" have fees assessed monthly to make them gradually go to zero.  The US and some states regulate this; in the US gift cards can't have periodic fees for the first year.

Then, of course, there's inflation.
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June 30, 2011, 03:41:48 PM
 #30

Inflation benefits the people that have more wealth because it props up their assets, while it goes against the people that earn a wage (usually the middle class and the poor) because it devaluates their wages. The basic mistake you are making is believing the wealthy keep their wealth in currency. They dont.

I don't care who will profit - rich or poor - from inflation currency.

In order to have big enough lending activity people should be discouraged from storing value in currency for long term.

If wealthy do not keep their wealth in currency - objective met. If they are running successful businesses - they have right to be wealthy.




Another enabler....... Seems you haven't put a lot of study into the monetary systems of the world and how one becomes uber wealthy. Their goal is to own nearly everything and make you a slave. At least they want to own everything that can be the facilitator of some type of transaction fee. Indenturing the world....

You're ok with this?

and this ain't happening with Bitcoin?

Bitcoin changed the printing process of currency and that is great but by being limited it is GOLD. Some early adopters (we that are already in the system) will have large amounts and will be able to dictate the price others won't have at all. Now if a new currency i don't talk about Bitcoin but another one which would have an incentive for investing/spending for example inflation or taxation of wealth built in then i would adopt that currency . Bitcoin from what i understand has a constant monetary mass growth that is great until we reach the 21 mil limit then what will be the incentive to spend bitcoins other than changing in state accepted currency? If the hole purpose of bitcoin is a intermediary currency to facilitate transactions from one state backed currency to another or speculation than great it wont matter how valuable it will be. But i don't want an intermediary currency or digital gold i want global money printed by people and not by governments or banks or churches or other power pillar , that will facilitate trade and progress and not wealth.

Currency can't solve all the problems and it needs to be mixed with other measures but we are talking about currency here.
johanatan
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July 01, 2011, 05:45:52 AM
 #31

Inflation benefits the people that have more wealth because it props up their assets, while it goes against the people that earn a wage (usually the middle class and the poor) because it devaluates their wages.
Isn't this the reason we have cost-of-living wage increases, bonuses, etc?  Inflation also benefits mortgagees (and other debtors) by reducing their debt in relation to available currency.

Quote
The basic mistake you are making is believing the wealthy keep their wealth in currency. They dont.
Neither do the working classes.  They spend it.  It's a currency --

If one's exposure to the dollar is limited (i.e., hedged via DXY [or similar] puts), how does inflation hurt him?

If the working classes want to save or invest they buy stocks, bonds, mutual funds, or what have you (ideally based on advice from honest financial advisors or they merely leave it to the fund managers [essentially with hedging and diversification built-in to the funds themselves]).

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jtimon
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July 01, 2011, 06:52:27 AM
 #32

Bitcoin changed the printing process of currency and that is great but by being limited it is GOLD. Some early adopters (we that are already in the system) will have large amounts and will be able to dictate the price others won't have at all. Now if a new currency i don't talk about Bitcoin but another one which would have an incentive for investing/spending for example inflation or taxation of wealth built in then i would adopt that currency . Bitcoin from what i understand has a constant monetary mass growth that is great until we reach the 21 mil limit then what will be the incentive to spend bitcoins other than changing in state accepted currency? If the hole purpose of bitcoin is a intermediary currency to facilitate transactions from one state backed currency to another or speculation than great it wont matter how valuable it will be. But i don't want an intermediary currency or digital gold i want global money printed by people and not by governments or banks or churches or other power pillar , that will facilitate trade and progress and not wealth.

Currency can't solve all the problems and it needs to be mixed with other measures but we are talking about currency here.

What do you think about freicoin? It would also have the 21 M (or other number) limit, but also demurrage. That would incentive people to either spend or invest rather than holding the currency.

2 different forms of free-money: Freicoin (free of basic interest because it's perishable), Mutual credit (no interest because it's abundant)
markm
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July 01, 2011, 07:04:51 AM
 #33

Don't forget World of Warcraft "gold". MUDflation inflationary enuff for ya?

-MarkM- (I already posted elsewhere that I suspect BitNickels might not prove as deflationary as Actual Original ("Hacker") Bitcoin.)


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jtimon
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July 01, 2011, 07:26:13 AM
 #34

Don't forget World of Warcraft "gold". MUDflation inflationary enuff for ya?

-MarkM- (I already posted elsewhere that I suspect BitNickels might not prove as deflationary as Actual Original ("Hacker") Bitcoin.)



What are bitNickels ?

2 different forms of free-money: Freicoin (free of basic interest because it's perishable), Mutual credit (no interest because it's abundant)
markm
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July 01, 2011, 07:56:30 AM
 #35

Don't forget World of Warcraft "gold". MUDflation inflationary enuff for ya?

-MarkM- (I already posted elsewhere that I suspect BitNickels might not prove as deflationary as Actual Original ("Hacker") Bitcoin.)



What are bitNickels ?

OMG already they have dropped out of mainstream consciousness, quick, sell, sell, sell, before the price plum gets eaten! OMG OMG OMG

-MarkM- (Try Freenode #bitcoin-bots /msg nickelbot help nkl)

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kloinko1n
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July 01, 2011, 07:59:35 AM
 #36

Great but dollars aren't printed by the people. Bitcoins are . My only problem with Bitcoin is that they are limited to 21 mil . Other then that Bitcoins are a revolution in money , fast and almost anonymous  transactions over the hole world with really small fees isn't possible with dollars or any other currency . So bitcoins are better than USD . To me bitcoin is too similar to gold witch I can't understand why it was valuable in the first place apart from it's property of being easy to store because it didn't degrade but bitcoin has some advantages over gold , easy divisible , everyone can mine it for now , will be harder in the future but still possible , easy transferable , maybe others.

Now i would like a currency that looses some value over time to make wealth holders spend it on things that get profit and not sit on them. I Think currency shouldn't be a wealth storing medium.
You got a strong point here. One of the reasons of the succes of the Wörgl Experiment is that the currency was losing its value (got taxed) if one didn't spend it.
jtimon
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July 01, 2011, 02:21:48 PM
 #37

Don't forget World of Warcraft "gold". MUDflation inflationary enuff for ya?

-MarkM- (I already posted elsewhere that I suspect BitNickels might not prove as deflationary as Actual Original ("Hacker") Bitcoin.)



What are bitNickels ?

OMG already they have dropped out of mainstream consciousness, quick, sell, sell, sell, before the price plum gets eaten! OMG OMG OMG

-MarkM- (Try Freenode #bitcoin-bots /msg nickelbot help nkl)


I can't get there. Can you paste here the displayed text when I do that?

2 different forms of free-money: Freicoin (free of basic interest because it's perishable), Mutual credit (no interest because it's abundant)
finnthecelt
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July 01, 2011, 03:34:15 PM
 #38

Inflation benefits the people that have more wealth because it props up their assets, while it goes against the people that earn a wage (usually the middle class and the poor) because it devaluates their wages. The basic mistake you are making is believing the wealthy keep their wealth in currency. They dont.

I don't care who will profit - rich or poor - from inflation currency.

In order to have big enough lending activity people should be discouraged from storing value in currency for long term.

If wealthy do not keep their wealth in currency - objective met. If they are running successful businesses - they have right to be wealthy.




Another enabler....... Seems you haven't put a lot of study into the monetary systems of the world and how one becomes uber wealthy. Their goal is to own nearly everything and make you a slave. At least they want to own everything that can be the facilitator of some type of transaction fee. Indenturing the world....

You're ok with this?

and this ain't happening with Bitcoin?

Bitcoin changed the printing process of currency and that is great but by being limited it is GOLD. Some early adopters (we that are already in the system) will have large amounts and will be able to dictate the price others won't have at all. Now if a new currency i don't talk about Bitcoin but another one which would have an incentive for investing/spending for example inflation or taxation of wealth built in then i would adopt that currency . Bitcoin from what i understand has a constant monetary mass growth that is great until we reach the 21 mil limit then what will be the incentive to spend bitcoins other than changing in state accepted currency? If the hole purpose of bitcoin is a intermediary currency to facilitate transactions from one state backed currency to another or speculation than great it wont matter how valuable it will be. But i don't want an intermediary currency or digital gold i want global money printed by people and not by governments or banks or churches or other power pillar , that will facilitate trade and progress and not wealth.

Currency can't solve all the problems and it needs to be mixed with other measures but we are talking about currency here.


Ok, I see what you are saying. There's only one problem with this line of thinking and that is that many people are caught within the inflation system. They do not have the ability to lend borrow or save. They are swimming for thier very lives. They never asked for a system in which a few people control the money supply. Many never have any excess currency to trade for wealth of any pedigree.

What you would call progress and trade many would do away with so they could catch a breath. Wouldn't it be nice to have a currency that was also wealth so that if you could manage to minimize your expenditures you would be able to save something of value? Through a number of mechanisms I assure you that this would promote a barter system and enhance communities. Many would ban together to trade goods and services in order to keep their wealth/currency. Perhaps to service debt???

This is well understood by the power elite today. They use currency and debt and these businesses you speak of to offer us jobs and steal our time and tear our families and communities apart.
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July 01, 2011, 03:46:09 PM
 #39

Don't forget World of Warcraft "gold". MUDflation inflationary enuff for ya?

-MarkM- (I already posted elsewhere that I suspect BitNickels might not prove as deflationary as Actual Original ("Hacker") Bitcoin.)



What are bitNickels ?

OMG already they have dropped out of mainstream consciousness, quick, sell, sell, sell, before the price plum gets eaten! OMG OMG OMG

-MarkM- (Try Freenode #bitcoin-bots /msg nickelbot help nkl)


I can't get there. Can you paste here the displayed text when I do that?

Oh that would just be a tiny little help blurb bowing to IRC flood limitations of only sending one line per two seconds.

Here we can do better: we can go to the source! :

Code:
#!/bin/bash
#
# nkl.sh
#
# BitNickel commands
#



#
# include constants.inc
#
. /var/games/crossfire/mybots/eggdrop/nickelbot/cmds/constants.inc


#
# Now on with the show
#


nick="$1"
cmd="$2"

if [ "$nick" == "" ]; then
  echo 'Nick was empty! NKL commands require a non-empty nick.'
  exit 1
fi
for n in btcbank britbank cdnbank czbank gmcbank grfbank martianbank nmcbank nickelbank unbank; do
  if [ "$n" == "$nick" ]; then
    echo "Sorry, $n is a restricted nick with no access to this function from IRC"
    exit 1
  fi
done

$BITNICKELD getnewaddress throwaways >/dev/null 2>/dev/null

if [ "$cmd" == "" ]; then
  echo 'Your bitNicKeL address here is:'
  $BITNICKELD getaccountaddress $nick
  echo -n 'Your bitNicKeL balance here is '
  balance=`$BITNICKELD getbalance $nick`
  echo "$balance"
  if [ `echo "$balance < 1" |$BC`  ]; then
    echo 'Your balance is less than 1! Please bring your balance up to at least 1!'
  fi
  echo "Transaction fee per kilobyte here is set to $TXFEE"
  exit 0
fi
if [ "$cmd" == "help" ]; then
  echo 'NKL commands: nkl, nkl balance, nkl address, nkl send amount destination'
  exit 0

fi
if [ "$cmd" == "address" ]; then
  echo 'Your bitNicKeL address here is:'
  $BITNICKELD getaccountaddress $nick
  exit 0
fi
if [ "$cmd" == "balance" ]; then
  echo -n 'Your bitNicKeL balance here is '
  balance=`$BITNICKELD getbalance $nick`
  echo "$balance"
  if [ `echo "$balance < 1" |$BC`  ]; then
    echo 'Your balance is less than 1! Please bring your balance up to at least 1!'
  fi
  echo "Transaction fee per kilobyte here is set to $TXFEE"
  exit 0
fi
if [ "$cmd" == "send" ]; then
  if [ "$3" == "" ]; then
    echo 'Syntax: nkl send toaddress amount'
    exit 1
  fi
  if [ "$4" == "" ]; then
    echo 'Syntax: nkl send toaddress amount'
    exit 1
  fi
  echo -n 'Your bitNicKeL balance here is '
  balance=`$BITNICKELD getbalance $nick`
  echo "$balance"
  if [ `echo "$balance < 1" |$BC`  ]; then
    echo 'Your balance is less than 1! Please bring your balance up to at least 1!'
    exit 1
  fi
  echo "Transaction fee per kilobyte here is set to $TXFEE"
  if [ `echo "$3 < 1" |$BC`  ]; then
    Send amount is less than 1! Please send at least 1!
    exit 1
  fi
  $BITNICKELD sendfrom $nick $3 $4    
  exit 0
fi
if [ "$cmd" == "exchange" ]; then
  if [ "$3" == "" ]; then
    echo 'Syntax: nkl exchange tocurrency amount'
    exit 1
  fi
  if [ "$4" == "" ]; then
    echo 'Syntax: nkl exchange tocurrency amount'
    exit 1
  fi
  fxout=$4
  fxback=$fxout
  echo -n 'Your bitNicKeL balance here is '
  balance=`$BITNICKELD getbalance $nick`
  echo "$balance"
  if [ `echo "$balance < 1" |$BC`  ]; then
    echo 'Your balance is less than 1! Please bring your balance up to at least 1!'
    exit 1
  fi
  echo "Transaction fee per kilobyte here is set to $TXFEE"
  if [ `echo "$fxout < 1" |$BC`  ]; then
    Amount to exchange is less than 1! Please exchange at least 1!
    exit 1
  fi
  nicksenoughinbank=`echo "$balance > ($fxout + $TXFEE)" |$BC`
#  echo "balance=$balance, nicksenoughinbank=$nicksenoughinbank"
  if [ "$nicksenoughinbank" == 0 ]; then
    echo "Sorry, that is more than you have in your account."
    exit 1
  fi
#  echo 'EXCHANGING NOT FULLY IMPLEMENTED YET, BLOCKED UNTIL FIXED'
#  exit 1
  if [ "$3" ==  "mbc" ]||[ "$3" == "MBC" ]; then
    $BOTCOIND getnewaddress throwaways >/dev/null 2>/dev/null
    nicksdestaddress=`$BOTCOIND getaccountaddress $nick`
    if [ "$nicksdestaddress" == "" ]; then
      echo "Sorry, I failed to retrieve your destination-address, it came out empty."
      exit 1
    fi
    echo 'Your Martian BotCoin address here is'
    echo "$nicksdestaddress"
    echo 'That is where the resulting Martian BotCoin will be sent.'
    echo "One bitNicKeL currently buys $NKLbuysMBC Martian BotCoins."
    bankbalance="`$BOTCOIND getbalance nickelbank`"
    fxback=`echo "scale=8 ; $fxout * $NKLbuysMBC"|$BC`
    enoughinbank=`echo "$bankbalance > ($fxback + $TXFEE)" |$BC`
#    echo "bankbalance=$bankbalance, enoughinbank=$enoughinbank"
    if [ "$enoughinbank" == 0 ]; then
      echo "Sorry, right now I cannot exchange an amount that large"
      exit 1
    fi
    $BITNICKELD sendfrom $nick $MARTIANNKLADDRESS $fxout
    $BOTCOIND sendfrom nickelbank $nicksaddress $fxback
    exit 0
  fi
  if [ "$3" == "ukb" ]||[ "$3" == "UKB" ]; then
    $BRITCOIND getnewaddress throwaways >/dev/null 2>/dev/null
    nicksdestaddress=`$BRITCOIND getaccountaddress $nick`
    if [ "$nicksdestaddress" == "" ]; then
      echo "Sorry, I failed to retrieve your destination-address, it came out empty."
      exit 1
    fi
    echo 'Your United Kingdom Britcoin address here is'
    echo "$nicksdestaddress"
    echo 'That is where the resulting United Kingdom Britcoin will be sent.'
    echo "One bitNicKeL currently buys $NKLbuysUKB United Kingdom BritCoins."
    bankbalance="`$BRITCOIND getbalance nickelbank`"
    fxback=`echo "scale=8 ; $fxout * $NKLbuysUKB"|$BC`
    enoughinbank=`echo "$bankbalance > ($fxback + $TXFEE)" |$BC`
#    echo "bankbalance=$bankbalance, enoughinbank=$enoughinbank"
    if [ "$enoughinbank" == 0 ]; then
      echo "Sorry, right now I cannot exchange an amount that large"
      exit 1
    fi
    $BITNICKELD sendfrom $nick $BRITNKLADDRESS $fxout
    $BRITCOIND sendfrom nickelbank $nicksaddress $fxback
    exit 0
  fi
  if [ "$3" == "czb" ]||[ "$3" == "CZB" ]; then
    $CZBITCOIND getnewaddress throwaways >/dev/null 2>/dev/null
    nicksdestaddress=`$CZBITCOIND getaccountaddress $nick`
    if [ "$nicksdestaddress" == "" ]; then
      echo "Sorry, I failed to retrieve your destination-address, it came out empty."
      exit 1
    fi
    echo 'Your CZech Bitcash address here is'
    echo "$nicksdestaddress"
    echo 'That is where the resulting CZech Bitcash will be sent.'
    echo "One bitNicKeL currently buys $NKLbuysCZB CZech Bitcash."
    bankbalance="`$CZBITCOIND getbalance nickelbank`"
    fxback=`echo "scale=8 ; $fxout * $NKLbuysCZB"|$BC`
    enoughinbank=`echo "$bankbalance >= ($fxback + $TXFEE)" |$BC`
#    echo "bankbalance=$bankbalance, enoughinbank=$enoughinbank"
    if [ "$enoughinbank" == 0 ]; then
      echo "Sorry, right now I cannot exchange an amount that large"
      exit 1
    fi
    $BITNICKELD sendfrom $nick $CZNKLADDRESS $fxout
    $CZBITCOIND sendfrom nickelbank $nicksaddress $fxback
    exit 0
  fi
  echo 'Hmm I guess you maybe specified a destination currency I do not offer...'
fi

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July 01, 2011, 05:19:57 PM
 #40

Bitcoin-like currency which is essentially a distributed electronic billing system can do more than a currency,e.g. ,it can record a loan or other fancy thing,it can classify currency  to several class,etc.

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