USELESS HEATER : ANTMINER D3 , WHAT IS NEXT ?

[iz25]

So, theoretically , what would happen to Dash in this example, but it could happen with any other coin, if mining becomes unprofitable?
Is it the end of the coin? Would people still mine it? If not how would the network process the transactions?

As the network hash rate drops the diffculty adjusts and makes it easier to mine. AFAIK, Dash was also the first coin that adjusts the block reward lower as the difficulty increases. That creates a mining reward incentive if the difficulty drops too much and keeps large farms from centralizing the hash power and gaming the difficulty like happens with SHA256 coins.

So, the D3 will be really dead only if new more powerful miner will be available providing greater hash/kWh rate or dash becomes just useless...

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[esconceptsz]

I have 4 arriving next week and another 5 arriving late November. I am pretty pissed. It was a bad investment. I'm doing good with my L3+s. I wish I spent my $$ on more L3+s instead. I think the nature of mining is that it's high risk. Those who say those who bought should've done more research... no way. I did a lot of research and a lot of modeling. What's happening now was my worst case scenario. I don't think there's any amount of research one could have done to foresee this as the likely scenario. Everybody is to blame, forget pointing fingers.

The best thing one can do is to try to diversify so a bad investment doesn't ruin everything. I invested in Chipolte, I'm down 50%. I also invested in NVIDIA and am up 200%. This is kind of the same. I hope I make more good investments than bad. Could Bitmain have been more thoughtful? I think so. Could the modeling Bitmain did based on number of units sold have better predicted the outcome? I kind of think so. Or maybe they didn't do any modeling. Bitmain was never forthcoming about units produced/sold. That's a key piece of information those of us doing research didn't have.

If I was Bitmain I might have been thoughtful enough in my modeling (knowing my market influence) to at least try to make sure those who bought what I sold would at least likely break even. I have to think there's more at stake for Bitmain than D3s. Their reputation is on the line. If Bitman's focus was to feed the demand, who cares who breaks even... that' short sighted.

The D3 demand was extremely high... but what's the demand going to be for the next several generations of their product line? What's the impact to their bottom line going to be because of all the people who got screwed on D3s? I'm going to remember. I think everyone else will too. The demand that exists now isn't always going to be there. And if I get screwed... well screw you too.

There are new players coming into town, Japan, Russia. Can I rely on Bitmain to at least get me back what I paid for the product? Nope. I'm not loyal, I'll take my business elsewhere. And I hope everyone else does too. In the future Bitmain is not going to have the lock on the market that it does now. In the future, if I can buy a similar product from someone else, I may. I think there will be more options.

So what will I do now? I'll try to sell what I can on eBay with hope of breaking even, selling to some poor sucker, and mining with what I have leftover until I can't anymore.

Who I feel bad for is the individual who doesn't have the $$ to be diverse, sunk what they had into D3s, and now they're totally screwed... and they can't do anything else.

And then - screw you Bitmain, I'm taking my D3s to the dump.

If I was Bitmain, I would admit to the scenario that's playing out, and I would give everyone from November forward a $500 discount per unit purchased on a future product sale. I'd at least have a little more respect for them.

Want to see a good model? Look @ the Siacoin Obliesk. They tell you how many miners they're producing up front, they tell you what to expect in terms Siacoin, and they're giving an exclusive mining period on the first batch - almost guaranteeing you'll at least break even. That's a great model, it builds trust.

[davemanet]

I have 4 arriving next week and another 5 arriving late November. I am pretty pissed. It was a bad investment. I'm doing good with my L3+s. I wish I spent my $$ on more L3+s instead. I think the nature of mining is that it's high risk. Those who say those who bought should've done more research... no way. I did a lot of research and a lot of modeling. What's happening now was my worst case scenario. I don't think there's any amount of research one could have done to foresee this as the likely scenario. Everybody is to blame, forget pointing fingers.

The best thing one can do is to try to diversify so a bad investment doesn't ruin everything. I invested in Chipolte, I'm down 50%. I also invested in NVIDIA and am up 200%. This is kind of the same. I hope I make more good investments than bad. Could Bitmain have been more thoughtful? I think so. Could the modeling Bitmain did based on number of units sold have better predicted the outcome? I kind of think so. Or maybe they didn't do any modeling. Bitmain was never forthcoming about units produced/sold. That's a key piece of information those of us doing research didn't have.

If I was Bitmain I might have been thoughtful enough in my modeling (knowing my market influence) to at least try to make sure those who bought what I sold would at least likely break even. I have to think there's more at stake for Bitmain than D3s. Their reputation is on the line. If Bitman's focus was to feed the demand, who cares who breaks even... that' short sighted.

The D3 demand was extremely high... but what's the demand going to be for the next several generations of their product line? What's the impact to their bottom line going to be because of all the people who got screwed on D3s? I'm going to remember. I think everyone else will too. The demand that exists now isn't always going to be there. And if I get screwed... well screw you too.

There are new players coming into town, Japan, Russia. Can I rely on Bitmain to at least get me back what I paid for the product? Nope. I'm not loyal, I'll take my business elsewhere. And I hope everyone else does too. In the future Bitmain is not going to have the lock on the market that it does now. In the future, if I can buy a similar product from someone else, I may. I think there will be more options.

So what will I do now? I'll try to sell what I can on eBay with hope of breaking even, selling to some poor sucker, and mining with what I have leftover until I can't anymore.

Who I feel bad for is the individual who doesn't have the $$ to be diverse, sunk what they had into D3s, and now they're totally screwed... and they can't do anything else.

And then - screw you Bitmain, I'm taking my D3s to the dump.

If I was Bitmain, I would admit to the scenario that's playing out, and I would give everyone from November forward a $500 discount per unit purchased on a future product sale. I'd at least have a little more respect for them.

Want to see a good model? Look @ the Siacoin Obliesk. They tell you how many miners they're producing up front, they tell you what to expect in terms Siacoin, and they're giving an exclusive mining period on the first batch - almost guaranteeing you'll at least break even. That's a great model, it builds trust.

what calculator are you using?  the crypto compare one is inaccurate says alot of people.  the coinwarz shows it as fairly profitable in the long run.  also the value of the coin should go up..

[mcan]

I have 4 arriving next week and another 5 arriving late November. I am pretty pissed. It was a bad investment. I'm doing good with my L3+s. I wish I spent my $$ on more L3+s instead. I think the nature of mining is that it's high risk. Those who say those who bought should've done more research... no way. I did a lot of research and a lot of modeling. What's happening now was my worst case scenario. I don't think there's any amount of research one could have done to foresee this as the likely scenario. Everybody is to blame, forget pointing fingers.

The best thing one can do is to try to diversify so a bad investment doesn't ruin everything. I invested in Chipolte, I'm down 50%. I also invested in NVIDIA and am up 200%. This is kind of the same. I hope I make more good investments than bad. Could Bitmain have been more thoughtful? I think so. Could the modeling Bitmain did based on number of units sold have better predicted the outcome? I kind of think so. Or maybe they didn't do any modeling. Bitmain was never forthcoming about units produced/sold. That's a key piece of information those of us doing research didn't have.

If I was Bitmain I might have been thoughtful enough in my modeling (knowing my market influence) to at least try to make sure those who bought what I sold would at least likely break even. I have to think there's more at stake for Bitmain than D3s. Their reputation is on the line. If Bitman's focus was to feed the demand, who cares who breaks even... that' short sighted.

The D3 demand was extremely high... but what's the demand going to be for the next several generations of their product line? What's the impact to their bottom line going to be because of all the people who got screwed on D3s? I'm going to remember. I think everyone else will too. The demand that exists now isn't always going to be there. And if I get screwed... well screw you too.

There are new players coming into town, Japan, Russia. Can I rely on Bitmain to at least get me back what I paid for the product? Nope. I'm not loyal, I'll take my business elsewhere. And I hope everyone else does too. In the future Bitmain is not going to have the lock on the market that it does now. In the future, if I can buy a similar product from someone else, I may. I think there will be more options.

So what will I do now? I'll try to sell what I can on eBay with hope of breaking even, selling to some poor sucker, and mining with what I have leftover until I can't anymore.

Who I feel bad for is the individual who doesn't have the $$ to be diverse, sunk what they had into D3s, and now they're totally screwed... and they can't do anything else.

And then - screw you Bitmain, I'm taking my D3s to the dump.

If I was Bitmain, I would admit to the scenario that's playing out, and I would give everyone from November forward a $500 discount per unit purchased on a future product sale. I'd at least have a little more respect for them.

Want to see a good model? Look @ the Siacoin Obliesk. They tell you how many miners they're producing up front, they tell you what to expect in terms Siacoin, and they're giving an exclusive mining period on the first batch - almost guaranteeing you'll at least break even. That's a great model, it builds trust.

totally agree

[d57heinz]

You can be glad you did not order a inno miner for 10k which does 30GH and is not even out.
Bitmain wanted to burn the competition and threw out so many D3. They achieved it.
They do the same they did with competition for Bitcoin-asics some time ago- flood the market with their miners for cheap price so ROI is impossible for the other buyers.
Now BM has even delisted the D3, they very well knew what they are doing and stopped selling them now. The bombs have fallen. But not all of them - yet.

Wow so thats what happened. First time getting caught up in this miner manufacturer war, and its not a good feeling right now. But i still have hope, and believe in holding dash for long term anyways.
You mentioned bitmain did this to other manufacturering company? Can you give me more details regarding this.
What was the competitors name and model of bitmain and competitor's model miners?
I would like to do some research into this.
Was the units bitmain pumping out that time as bad as the d3 profitably currently?

It was the time of Avalon vs Bitmain i think. Now Avalon is a nice memory of the past.

Actually it was bitmain vs spoondoolies tech vs some others I can’t recall. Bitmain flooded the market with s3 dropping price down next to nothin.  Also at that time Bitcoin was trading in the 170-300 range dropping most of that time.  Bitmain has been an Achilles heal for Bitcoin since they came onto the scene. They are some bad actors and nothing much we can do.  If btc is indestructible it should push right Over Bitmain in the end.   As far as the alts it’s hard to say if they can take such an attack.  

BR

Also to my knowledge Avalon still exists and are selling 8-10ths miners. Avalon a7 something like that I beleive

[jeswin]

It's horrible...

[COINKING84]

Sorry guys. If you dont want to run your D3 contact me if you are in usa. I already put in a big electrical system so i cant tirn back.

[nejelaq]

I read everything you've written so far and I have a thing to add. Nobody can convince me that someone like Bitmain could not make the simple calculation how the hashing power they introduce to the dash network would affect it's difficulty and profitability. Hell .. if I knew how many units they produce I could make the calculation. They new exactly what they were doing. They knew that MAYBE only the first batch would get some RIO eventually but they kept pushing the D3's anyway. Please don't be fooled by standard practice and don't talk about them like you would talk about some other company that sells their products. They make a ton of money from their farms. A ton! The profit from selling these units I guess is like less than launch money for them. So why would they care about you? Maybe all of this is just some personal vendetta against other ASIC developers. Whatever it is if I were you, I would think twice before buying from them again.. even with discount. You just got fxcked. Now you know why everyone in the ctypto world is trying to get rid of the monopoly from companies like them.
Soon the D3 would not even worth as a heather. Here is the profitability trend from Oct. 29 until Nov.3 https://ibb.co/btykVw That is before the first November batch.
That's from the 19.2GH batch. What about the 15GH? How long will it take until you have to pay for keeping it running?
The question is what are YOU going to do from now on with you worthless tin box...

[COINKING84]

I read everything you've written so far and I have a thing to add. Nobody can convince me that someone like Bitmain could not make the simple calculation how the hashing power they introduce to the dash network would affect it's difficulty and profitability. Hell .. if I knew how many units they produce I could make the calculation. They new exactly what they were doing. They knew that MAYBE only the first batch would get some RIO eventually but they kept pushing the D3's anyway. Please don't be fooled by standard practice and don't talk about them like you would talk about some other company that sells their products. They make a ton of money from their farms. A ton! The profit from selling these units I guess is like less than launch money for them. So why would they care about you? Maybe all of this is just some personal vendetta against other ASIC developers. Whatever it is if I were you, I would think twice before buying from them again.. even with discount. You just got fxcked. Now you know why everyone in the ctypto world is trying to get rid of the monopoly from companies like them.
Soon the D3 would not even worth as a heather. Here is the profitability trend from Oct. 29 until Nov.3 https://ibb.co/btykVw That is before the first November batch.
That's from the 19.2GH batch. What about the 15GH? How long will it take until you have to pay for keep it running?
The question is what are YOU going to do from now on with you worthless tin box...

Welcome to bitcoin talk. great first post. lol

[bittawm]

I read everything you've written so far and I have a thing to add. Nobody can convince me that someone like Bitmain could not make the simple calculation how the hashing power they introduce to the dash network would affect it's difficulty and profitability. Hell .. if I knew how many units they produce I could make the calculation. They new exactly what they were doing. They knew that MAYBE only the first batch would get some RIO eventually but they kept pushing the D3's anyway. Please don't be fooled by standard practice and don't talk about them like you would talk about some other company that sells their products. They make a ton of money from their farms. A ton! The profit from selling these units I guess is like less than launch money for them. So why would they care about you? Maybe all of this is just some personal vendetta against other ASIC developers. Whatever it is if I were you, I would think twice before buying from them again.. even with discount. You just got fxcked. Now you know why everyone in the ctypto world is trying to get rid of the monopoly from companies like them.
Soon the D3 would not even worth as a heather. Here is the profitability trend from Oct. 29 until Nov.3 https://ibb.co/btykVw That is before the first November batch.
That's from the 19.2GH batch. What about the 15GH? How long will it take until you have to pay for keeping it running?
The question is what are YOU going to do from now on with you worthless tin box...

they make really good door stops

[charles2k]

In my opinion, Bitmain should give to all D3 customers (from batch October) 300USD discount coupon as compensation extremely bad yield.

Hell yeah or 1st batch order guarantee with priority shipping on their next major miner.

And you will by from them with your coupon another miner? xD

yes, S9 or L3+, but D3 never more

[nejelaq]

One more thing - I hear people say that Bitmain even over delivered because they announced 15Gh and now you get 19. People from early batches report 900W from the wall. 19Gh batch is 1300W from the wall. Over delivered? Really? )) They rely on you being stupid, to say and think things like this. Please! Get a calculator

[charles2k]

One more thing - I hear people say that Bitmain even over delivered because they announced 15Gh and now you get 19. People from early batches report 900W from the wall. 19Gh batch is 1300W from the wall. Over delivered? Really? )) They rely on you being stupid, to say and think things like this. Please! Get a calculator

My 19.3G D3 consumes 1200W from the wall (230V Platinum PSU)

[nejelaq]

The one I tested is 1300W. It depends on the efficiency of the power supply you use. My point is that there is difference between over delivery and simple factory overclocking

[mcan]

One more thing - I hear people say that Bitmain even over delivered because they announced 15Gh and now you get 19. People from early batches report 900W from the wall. 19Gh batch is 1300W from the wall. Over delivered? Really? )) They rely on you being stupid, to say and think things like this. Please! Get a calculator

1300WATT This is horrible .

[jchi2210]

I have 4 D3's in hand that i'm ready to sell if anyone is interested!  I'll have another 3 in a week or so. Lol

[sevenmiles]

my post back in early September - people should just do BASIC research before throwing money:

"one month ago, on August 3rd, Dash Network Hashrate is around 13 TH/S to 14 TH/s,
and in just 30 days, today, Dash Network Hashrate is around 32 TH/s to 33 TH/s  Shocked Shocked

and what the monster miners are in market now? only the iBelink 10.8G, and first batch Antminer D3, right?

So in November, when there are 10.8G, 22G, 17G, 15G, 30G in the market... Tongue i guess Dash Network Hashrate  would be 100 TH/s at least Roll Eyes"

[mcan]

my post back in early September - people should just do BASIC research before throwing money:

"one month ago, on August 3rd, Dash Network Hashrate is around 13 TH/S to 14 TH/s,
and in just 30 days, today, Dash Network Hashrate is around 32 TH/s to 33 TH/s  Shocked Shocked

and what the monster miners are in market now? only the iBelink 10.8G, and first batch Antminer D3, right?

So in November, when there are 10.8G, 22G, 17G, 15G, 30G in the market... Tongue i guess Dash Network Hashrate  would be 100 TH/s at least Roll Eyes"

Sorry but which research? i have paid in  12th of august to BITMAIN for november so  this is not related with research this is directly related how many unit BITMAIN that sold , buy from previous reputation i did not think they will fool their clients.But these mthr fckrs did .

[nejelaq]

my post back in early September - people should just do BASIC research before throwing money:

"one month ago, on August 3rd, Dash Network Hashrate is around 13 TH/S to 14 TH/s,
and in just 30 days, today, Dash Network Hashrate is around 32 TH/s to 33 TH/s  Shocked Shocked

and what the monster miners are in market now? only the iBelink 10.8G, and first batch Antminer D3, right?

So in November, when there are 10.8G, 22G, 17G, 15G, 30G in the market... Tongue i guess Dash Network Hashrate  would be 100 TH/s at least Roll Eyes"

Tell my about this BASIC research. What can you research without knowing the most important part of the equation - the new hashing power introduced to the network? So far there are over 35 000 D3's running. The picture would be very different if there were 10 000. You could not known that in august!

[FrenchinHK]

"you shouldnt buy   Don't blame other for your mistakes. buy the 1st or 2nd bacth maximum, at REAL price or die