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Author Topic: Run your rig on renewable energy?  (Read 5413 times)
saqwe
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June 29, 2011, 10:23:36 AM
 #21

HAHA sterling engine:


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June 29, 2011, 11:09:01 AM
 #22

HAHA sterling engine:

You are easily amused Cheesy

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neptop
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June 30, 2011, 11:25:43 AM
 #23

No, if you want to save the environment then don't start mining.
Just like in the real world with coal.
Sorry, but that's nonsense. Bitcoin is actually a better way to save the environment than paper money is.

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June 30, 2011, 12:37:56 PM
 #24

No, if you want to save the environment then don't start mining.
Just like in the real world with coal.
Sorry, but that's nonsense. Bitcoin is actually a better way to save the environment than paper money is.
Except you don't have a choice about paper money - it's already here.
You're simply adding to the wasted energy not removing it.

killer2021
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June 30, 2011, 01:38:12 PM
 #25

No, if you want to save the environment then don't start mining.
Just like in the real world with coal.
Sorry, but that's nonsense. Bitcoin is actually a better way to save the environment than paper money is.
Except you don't have a choice about paper money - it's already here.
You're simply adding to the wasted energy not removing it.

well bitcoin has the potential to replace paper money.

Also I'd like to inform everyone that running the rig on renewable energy is not about being environmentally friendly. Its all about the economics of it. Why buy energy when you can get it for free (from untapped renewable energy resources).

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bcpokey
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June 30, 2011, 03:33:45 PM
 #26

No, if you want to save the environment then don't start mining.
Just like in the real world with coal.
Sorry, but that's nonsense. Bitcoin is actually a better way to save the environment than paper money is.
Except you don't have a choice about paper money - it's already here.
You're simply adding to the wasted energy not removing it.

well bitcoin has the potential to replace paper money.

Also I'd like to inform everyone that running the rig on renewable energy is not about being environmentally friendly. Its all about the economics of it. Why buy energy when you can get it for free (from untapped renewable energy resources).

Because from a business perspective alone there are almost no options where alternative forms of energy are preferrable, excepting rare cases like being out in the wilderness of who-knows-where by yourself where costs of transmission are prohibitive and you can tap some natural resource.

For the majority of folk however looking PURELY at business side renewable is not cost-effective. If it were, everyone would have it. Even as "free energy" the cost for equipment and set up and all that whatnot puts the cost / watt generated higher than traditional forms of energy.

That's why you have to include other concerns, the environment, your local health concern, future resource supply shifts, etc. into the mix. But just looking at buying energy vs, generating it? You lose.
compro01
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June 30, 2011, 03:40:15 PM
 #27

Why buy energy when you can get it for free (from untapped renewable energy resources).

because the equipment to harvest said untapped renewable energy resources is decidedly non-free.
shakaru
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June 30, 2011, 03:40:25 PM
 #28

There was a video on Digg.com (or slashdot, dont remember) about a week ago about this new composite alloy that has no magnetic properties....unit it absorbs heat, then it is like a super magnet. Thus, making a heat powered magnetic motor.

here is the text article, google for the video

http://www.tgdaily.com/sustainability-features/56965-multiferroic-alloy-turns-waste-heat-to-energy

bcpokey
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June 30, 2011, 05:46:33 PM
 #29

There was a video on Digg.com (or slashdot, dont remember) about a week ago about this new composite alloy that has no magnetic properties....unit it absorbs heat, then it is like a super magnet. Thus, making a heat powered magnetic motor.

here is the text article, google for the video

http://www.tgdaily.com/sustainability-features/56965-multiferroic-alloy-turns-waste-heat-to-energy

As with all in-development technology, this is decidedly cool, but we'll see what the real world practical applications actually end up being. It might cost $10,000 / gram, and see no actual use, or it might not scale, or who knows.

Always nice to keep an eyeon these things though. Would be nice if this damn oven room was producing the electricity it needed to run. Also if it absorbs heat it can used as a cooler, yay.
Fakeman
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July 01, 2011, 01:25:41 AM
 #30

As with all in-development technology, this is decidedly cool, but we'll see what the real world practical applications actually end up being. It might cost $10,000 / gram, and see no actual use, or it might not scale, or who knows.

The raw materials are not crazily expensive anyway, cobalt is the most expensive thing in there (~$40/lb currently) but there's not too much of it. Nickel and tin are in the $10-12 range and manganese is dirt cheap in comparison.

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anodyne
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July 01, 2011, 10:53:16 AM
 #31

I run my rigs on 100% hydroelectric power. And not only that, the dam is so close I could run my own extension cord to it... or, well, at least I can get there and back in a two hour walk.

I pay about 1% extra per kW/h for that. But I guess in reality that mostly means someone else pays 1% less for dirty power...

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killer2021
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July 01, 2011, 02:03:07 PM
 #32

Why buy energy when you can get it for free (from untapped renewable energy resources).

because the equipment to harvest said untapped renewable energy resources is decidedly non-free.

True but you would amortize the cost over xyz years and deduct the cost.

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July 01, 2011, 03:13:55 PM
 #33

HAHA sterling engine:

Is that what Bender has? (Futurama)

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BombaUcigasa
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July 01, 2011, 05:31:36 PM
 #34

HAHA sterling engine:
Actually don't laugh. A mining card will convert over 90% of it's spent energy as heat. You can run a stirling engine outside your PC case to recover 40-50% of the wasted heat as mechanical work or oscillating energy then convert that into electricity and back into the power supply Cheesy

It also doubles as automatically tuned cooling installation.
bcpokey
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July 01, 2011, 05:35:43 PM
 #35

As with all in-development technology, this is decidedly cool, but we'll see what the real world practical applications actually end up being. It might cost $10,000 / gram, and see no actual use, or it might not scale, or who knows.

The raw materials are not crazily expensive anyway, cobalt is the most expensive thing in there (~$40/lb currently) but there's not too much of it. Nickel and tin are in the $10-12 range and manganese is dirt cheap in comparison.

 Huh. Atomic cost is not the decider of materials cost. The materials that make up a diamond are carbon atoms, I could probably get those for free. It's the process of shaping those carbon atoms into a diamond which is difficult, and yields a higher price than carbon alone.

There is no mention of the process used to form this new item, whether it is complex or simple, energy intensive or relaxed, whether it can be done only on small scales or whether industrial scaling can be done. These are all considerations of cost beyond materials. This is why so many awesome things come out of the lab but fail to find any traction in the real world.
bcpokey
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July 01, 2011, 05:48:28 PM
 #36

HAHA sterling engine:
Actually don't laugh. A mining card will convert over 90% of it's spent energy as heat. You can run a stirling engine outside your PC case to recover 40-50% of the wasted heat as mechanical work or oscillating energy then convert that into electricity and back into the power supply Cheesy

It also doubles as automatically tuned cooling installation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is not the sterling engine subject to carnot efficiency? 1- T_C / T_H ? Assuming you have something like ambient temp for T_C, and an efficient heat exchange between cards and whatever reservoir you are using for your sterling engine, I don't see how you would get more than 20% efficiency from a sterling engine even in the most extremely hypothetically favorable case.
enmaku
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July 01, 2011, 05:52:48 PM
 #37

HAHA sterling engine:
Actually don't laugh. A mining card will convert over 90% of it's spent energy as heat. You can run a stirling engine outside your PC case to recover 40-50% of the wasted heat as mechanical work or oscillating energy then convert that into electricity and back into the power supply Cheesy

It also doubles as automatically tuned cooling installation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is not the sterling engine subject to carnot efficiency? 1- T_C / T_H ? Assuming you have something like ambient temp for T_C, and an efficient heat exchange between cards and whatever reservoir you are using for your sterling engine, I don't see how you would get more than 20% efficiency from a sterling engine even in the most extremely hypothetically favorable case.

So reclaiming 20% of otherwise wasted energy is a worthless waste of time? Shit guys we better tell... Well shit, everyone. Because EVERY COMPANY IN THE WORLD would jump on a chance to recoup 20% of otherwise unavoidable wastes, assuming the buy-in isn't absurdly high.

I don't know if a sterling engine WOULD work well or not but it's worth a crack and if someone would like to experiment with it, I'm not going to call them an idiot because my gedanken experiment couldn't achieve better than 20% efficiency.

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July 01, 2011, 06:00:15 PM
 #38

So reclaiming 20% of otherwise wasted energy is a worthless waste of time? Shit guys we better tell... Well shit, everyone. Because EVERY COMPANY IN THE WORLD would jump on a chance to recoup 20% of otherwise unavoidable wastes, assuming the buy-in isn't absurdly high.

I don't know if a sterling engine WOULD work well or not but it's worth a crack and if someone would like to experiment with it, I'm not going to call them an idiot because my gedanken experiment couldn't achieve better than 20% efficiency.

Great way to reply as a total douche to someone providing the correct math being the sterling engine. Good thing not everyone treats engineers like you do.
enmaku
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July 01, 2011, 06:03:26 PM
 #39

So reclaiming 20% of otherwise wasted energy is a worthless waste of time? Shit guys we better tell... Well shit, everyone. Because EVERY COMPANY IN THE WORLD would jump on a chance to recoup 20% of otherwise unavoidable wastes, assuming the buy-in isn't absurdly high.

I don't know if a sterling engine WOULD work well or not but it's worth a crack and if someone would like to experiment with it, I'm not going to call them an idiot because my gedanken experiment couldn't achieve better than 20% efficiency.

Great way to reply as a total douche to someone providing the correct math being the sterling engine. Good thing not everyone treats engineers like you do.

All I'm saying is that if someone can so much as find a way to make waste heat run even a single case fan they should do it and see if they can make it profitable. What would we all be doing right now if Satoshi thought he had a great idea but decided it probably wouldn't work and never published?

bcpokey
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July 01, 2011, 06:06:11 PM
 #40

HAHA sterling engine:
Actually don't laugh. A mining card will convert over 90% of it's spent energy as heat. You can run a stirling engine outside your PC case to recover 40-50% of the wasted heat as mechanical work or oscillating energy then convert that into electricity and back into the power supply Cheesy

It also doubles as automatically tuned cooling installation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is not the sterling engine subject to carnot efficiency? 1- T_C / T_H ? Assuming you have something like ambient temp for T_C, and an efficient heat exchange between cards and whatever reservoir you are using for your sterling engine, I don't see how you would get more than 20% efficiency from a sterling engine even in the most extremely hypothetically favorable case.

So reclaiming 20% of otherwise wasted energy is a worthless waste of time? Shit guys we better tell... Well shit, everyone. Because EVERY COMPANY IN THE WORLD would jump on a chance to recoup 20% of otherwise unavoidable wastes, assuming the buy-in isn't absurdly high.

I don't know if a sterling engine WOULD work well or not but it's worth a crack and if someone would like to experiment with it, I'm not going to call them an idiot because my gedanken experiment couldn't achieve better than 20% efficiency.

Feel free to quote where I said it was a worthless waste of time. Or where I called someone an idiot. Quoting this post doesn't count.

You're an idiot.

I was merely questioning his statement, asking where his numbers were from, when the theoretical maximum (carnot himself understood that no such engine can even exist) is half of the claimed numbers. In all likelihood you will get a fraction of that value in a real world scenario.

I will add to boot that the buy-in will be absurdly high for a small user to find a custom sterling engine of suitable size, heat transfer setup and whatnot, unless you are running a massive mining cluster. I'm not saying that it isn't worth playing with, or that seeing someone set one up wouldn't be quite interesting. But don't expect that anyone can just jump on board and cool their 4 radeon 5870s while dropping their power bill in half at little to no cost.
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