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Author Topic: [ANN] Infinitecoin (IFC) pool-Treasurequarry.com. 1.5% fee. P2pool Europe server  (Read 51397 times)
Hippie Tech
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August 19, 2013, 01:48:42 AM
 #101

WTF does the best share found have to do with this ?!

The bug here is that in many cases the hashpower is not being rewarded.

Get it through to your head. THE HASHRATES ARE PRESENT AND CONTANT. THE REWARD IS NOT !!

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sololoop
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August 19, 2013, 02:04:12 AM
 #102

WTF does the best share found have to do with this ?!

The bug here is that in many cases the hashpower is not being rewarded.

Get it through to your head. THE HASHRATES ARE PRESENT AND CONTANT. THE REWARD IS NOT !!

WTF ? lol
Do you know what mining do ? you need found a block (every block got a diff.) (found a shares)
However, p2pool need miner get a pool diff. share to enter their pay list party.
This is P2pool pplns not PPS payout system . (not paying for your hashpower Smiley )
Hashpower is useless, it should used to find block.

But yes, the pool seem bugged / scam with real share... we are not in payout party although our miner got a real shares.

More test here :
Best shares means miner get at least one share that above pool diff. but still not in payout party.


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sololoop
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August 19, 2013, 02:20:53 AM
 #103

I don't know how much clearer I can say it.  Depending on your hashrate relative to the pool you will not necessarily get paid for every block found by the pool. However in the long term you should get the correct total payout.

This is common to p2pool and just how p2pool works.  Take a look at the graphs on another p2pool site, p2pool org at http://p2pool.org:9377/static/graphs.html?Day for  6npqNmr5qgkJB9NA6Q7iC8PRSry2EjkXLN and  6vysnvjxxtkapAc8WwQUQrTrekB6DdqN6V  .  Or at http://p2pool.org:8900/static/graphs.html?Day for bT6mbYTq3BJCZvdej66vekpU8ebDQPZrfD .  You''ll see similar gaps in payout entitlement for some periods.

You're welcome to do the same calculations as I did in my previous post for your iC6Yr743UWVzt3vtYWBXGxPsZNBmUzjgNB address, Hippie Tech. The data is all publicly accessible.

If you're not happy with how p2pool works then I respectfully suggest you simply use a traditional pool instead.

Seem that the pool shares diff. is too high or we should found a block to enter playlist party ??

Miner get share above the pool diff. (show on your pool main page 0.224) but not in playlist party :


Miner found a block (share diff. above block diff.) , then in :

Hippie Tech
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August 19, 2013, 02:28:50 AM
 #104

That is not how it works, sololoop. You do not need to find a block. Mining is the only requirement.

The pool's graphs do not lie. My 600-1600 khash was running the entire time.

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August 19, 2013, 02:32:59 AM
 #105

That is not how it works, sololoop. You do not need to find a block. Mining is the only requirement.

The pool's graphs do not lie. My 600-1600 khash was running the entire time.

if everyone on pool not found a block... who pay your coins ?


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August 19, 2013, 03:46:34 AM
 #106

That is not how it works, sololoop. You do not need to find a block. Mining is the only requirement.

The pool's graphs do not lie. My 600-1600 khash was running the entire time.

if everyone on pool not found a block... who pay your coins ?




Thats the whole point of the pool..  You can go days without finding a block and will continue to get paid.

You seem to be completly misunderstanding things thanks to Treasureseeker's run around explanations.

He is skirting the issue because of the potential millions of IFC this has cost the miners.

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August 19, 2013, 04:58:56 AM
 #107

That is not how it works, sololoop. You do not need to find a block. Mining is the only requirement.

The pool's graphs do not lie. My 600-1600 khash was running the entire time.

if everyone on pool not found a block... who pay your coins ?




Thats the whole point of the pool..  You can go days without finding a block and will continue to get paid.

You seem to be completly misunderstanding things thanks to Treasureseeker's run around explanations.

He is skirting the issue because of the potential millions of IFC this has cost the miners.

You are talking about some PPS pools
Maybe you should read something about PPLNS, PPS , share..etc
Moreover it is on the first page on this post : (Treasurequarry .com is stand P2Pool Which is PPLNS) :
This will make your miner report when it finds "pseudo-shares" of a certain difficulty (you'll still need to find real shares for payments to start, which may take anything between a few seconds to a half a day or so, depending on your hashrate).  Once you do find a share, payments will start going straight to your wallet as soon as the p2pool finds blocks.   Due to the way p2pool's PPLNS (pay per last N shares) works, the payments may seem to start slow but will reach a peak and reasonably steady rate after a couple of days or so.


I know what you concern about is getting less payment and i agree that "Treasurequarry" is strange. We should get share more often.
But you ignore everything importance about mining : shares, diff. PPLNS (p2pool) , and complaint less payment isn't helpful.
No pools will pay you for hashrate, even PPS require miner get their target diff. to receive payment.
c1010010
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August 19, 2013, 05:00:21 AM
 #108

I really can't follow the craziness above.

Is there a simple explanation for the average payout dropping so far?  It looks to be about 30% of what I was seeing the other... and it appears to be declining.

Thanks.

         YOU TOO CAN BE A MILLIONAIRE – INFINITECOIN Infinite possibilities – http://infinitecointalk.org          
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August 19, 2013, 05:08:57 AM
 #109

I really can't follow the craziness above.

Is there a simple explanation for the average payout dropping so far?  It looks to be about 30% of what I was seeing the other... and it appears to be declining.

Thanks.


i am not going to explanation why the average payout dropping. should i ?
i am listing out the problem i found.It is curious why Treasure is different from other P2Pool PPLNS system.
As every PPLNS have their pool diff. for payment target. But pool diff.  for Treasure seem broken.
Hippie Tech
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August 19, 2013, 10:51:03 AM
 #110

I really can't follow the craziness above.

Is there a simple explanation for the average payout dropping so far?  It looks to be about 30% of what I was seeing the other... and it appears to be declining.

Thanks.


The simple explanation is... we have been SCAMMED.

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August 19, 2013, 11:53:31 AM
 #111

@Hippie Tech:

I fully get your point, and I agree to you that something appears somehow strange with how the payments come off. But we should be fair. Honestly, I don´t feel that anybody is scamming here; maybe it´s kind of bug in the pool´s software or it´s like TreasureSeeker said: In the long run it will be just. As I am not an expert, I can not know more. For myself it looks somehow fine: I don´t get any amount for days, then I get some quite big numbers of coins for a short period. Take a look at iNY....QF1 at full track: 2.93 GH. For that I ceceived until now 115893 IFC which looks about reasonable for me. Like many here I also wonder how the payments are exactly calculated - I have no clue.

Anyways, like in real life we should not say:"This is scam", because it´s not proven. There is no point in stating something we just think of as a fact. Other people may read it and take it for proven.

Better say"I think it is scam because...".

That´s my 2 IFC on this. Thanks.
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August 19, 2013, 12:27:38 PM
 #112

I really can't follow the craziness above.

Is there a simple explanation for the average payout dropping so far?  It looks to be about 30% of what I was seeing the other... and it appears to be declining.

Thanks.


The simple explanation is... we have been SCAMMED.


While I do have to admit that your conclusion is a POSSIBILITY, I don't think it is probable.   Here's why.

I've been with this, and other PPLNS P2P pools for some time. The gradual ramp up behavior is very common.. It does not surprise me at all.

Now, something does appear to have changed... The results with identical input is different. There was some discussion about pool changes, and, to me at least, it seems something is not right.

I would like to get some explanation from the pool OPs, so I can understand what is going on and to either correct the issue, or reset expectations, or make an informed decision and get out of the pool myself.

That brings up my final point... You. You appear to be paranoid. (It still is called paranoia even when they ARE watching you for real, right Smiley. My suggestion would be that you take your own advice and move to a different pool just to be safe.   There are only a few options then:

1). You are right, and the move made your results better, safer, more predictable.
2). You are wrong, and you moved without any reason.   No real loss there, you just tried something new.



So, pool OPs, any comment or explanation you can share?

         YOU TOO CAN BE A MILLIONAIRE – INFINITECOIN Infinite possibilities – http://infinitecointalk.org          
Hippie Tech
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August 19, 2013, 01:05:23 PM
 #113

This is not being paranoid.

This is the truth.

The graphs say it all. Here are some of today's victims.



I used to think that the sharp declines were caused by the default addy. This guy was nearing zero even before the main drop at 9pm.


Good to see it didn't take this one long to quit. Smiley


There are more.

@ Treasureseeker The miners deserve some answers !

TreasureSeeker
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August 19, 2013, 06:22:16 PM
 #114

If "the graphs say it all", here's proof that this is standard p2pool behaviour. Certainly not a scam.

These are from 2 separate sites:

Firstly from http://ask.gxsnmp.org:9332/static/graphs.html?Month    

Long gaps here.





Secondly from http://p2pool.org:9377/static/graphs.html?Day      

More long gaps



Regarding blocks 196495  and 196471, if you don't believe that they were orphaned, ask jtobey (creator of the abe block explorer software) what is indicated by the block explorer for those blocks.  

P2Pool is complex and often confusing but I can assure you that the standard p2pool software has been used on TreaureQuarry throughout.  I have virtually no control over what it does. The only things I've added are appropriate settings to get it to work with Infinitecoin.  For those who may know about p2pool, these settings are in networks.py and /bitcoin/networks.py  . There was also an addition to helper.py that used to be required in the version of the pool software that I was using before last night.

Until last night the p2pool software I was using was the software from https://github.com/narken/p2pool-altcoins .  At the time of setting up the pool in June, this was identical (apart from settings for additional coins in networks.py and /bitcoin/networks.py and helper.py) to the standard official p2pool software from https://github.com/forrestv/p2pool

I updated to the latest p2pool software from https://github.com/forrestv/p2pool last night.  In fact I did 2 upgrades - on Saturday I had noticed that there was a new official p2pool version available so had downloaded that in readiness to upgrade. I then upgraded to this on Sunday before then noticing that another new version had been released on Sunday.  The second upgrade was done an hour later last night. Apparently the version that I had downloaded on Saturday and was running on the server for about an hour on Sunday did have some bugs. Whether this latest version contains any bugs I don't know. I'm not knowledgeable in python and wouldn't know how to check, or certainly not modify the code.  I hope there are no bugs although it currently looks like the "Expected time to share" is showing a bit of a low value currently.  

Mining here is your choice. There are no guarantees on anything because, as I have stated, I have virtually no control over what the software does.  

Fun & Friendly p2pool Mining at TreasureQuarry.  Litecoin http://litecoin.treasurequarry.com:9327 Dash p2pool  http://dash.treasurequarry.com:7903
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August 19, 2013, 07:12:01 PM
 #115

Moving forward and trying to help.

c1010010 can you give me your IFC address so that I can look at things for you about your reduced payments.  If things are not right we may need to rollback to the previous version but I'd like to avoid that if possible so I'd like to see what's happening with you.  

sololoop, what timezone is your miner displaying? I want to check the logs for the same time.

Fun & Friendly p2pool Mining at TreasureQuarry.  Litecoin http://litecoin.treasurequarry.com:9327 Dash p2pool  http://dash.treasurequarry.com:7903
c1010010
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August 19, 2013, 08:49:48 PM
 #116

Sure.  Thanks.

i6CBtPTBEKCAhXiDWr3zmiDSQWUfwMrquA


I pulled all the rigs off for a while - testing out a pool for shits-n-giggles.  If you need them online for any reason, I'm happy to move them back for live tests.

The oddity that I'm seeding is shown below.

My rigs are pretty consistent.  I am generally a solid 8-10Mh/s with those 16 cards, but I have been having a rig acting up so there is a definite possibility that the average hashrate over the past week is closer to 7.5Mh/s.

What I saw was that when running full force, you see an average payout at point-a.  But, afterwards, point-b shows a drastically different number.

I'm not sure if it is me, you, or the phases of the moon.

If you could help explain that, I would very much appreciate it.



         YOU TOO CAN BE A MILLIONAIRE – INFINITECOIN Infinite possibilities – http://infinitecointalk.org          
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August 20, 2013, 12:14:13 AM
 #117

Aha, I see what you mean.  The reason for the drop in your expected payout is that although your own hashrate has remained steady at around the 8 mh/s, the total hashrate of the pool has increased.

I've copied a graph of the pool's total hashrate (local rate) covering the periods you've mentioned below, with the same (or thereabouts... as close as I could estimate) point A and point B.



The calculations below are very rough and don't fully take into consideration the nature of p2pool's PPLNS system which is very dynamic, but they'll give an idea of the reason for the drop in your expected payout per block...

Point A on the local rate graph is around a third up between 0 and 50 Mh/s....lets call it 17 mh's.  At that point you were hashing along at your  8 mh/s compared to the pool's total  17 mh/s.  Assuming an average luck of finding shares, that would mean that your expected payout for a block found would be around 8/17*131072 (ie your hashrate divided by the total pool's hashrate multiplied by the block value).  This equals 61680 (close to what is showing on your graph's point A....bear in mind there seems to have been a period before point A that you were hashing at about 5mh/s which may have caused a bit of a hangover effect on point A which is why your actual expected payout figure is showing as more like 50000 at point A).

Point B on the  local rate graph is about two-thirds between 50 and 100mh/s.  Let's call this 83 mh/s.   At that point you were still hashing along at your  8 mh/s but now compared to the pool's total  83 mh/s.  Assuming an average luck of finding shares, that would mean that your expected payout for a block found would be around 8/83*131072 (ie your hashrate divided by the total pool's hashrate multiplied by the block value).  This equals 12633 (close to what is showing on your graph's point B).

Now that the whole pool is hashing along faster, then assuming the total global Infinitecoin network's difficulty remained the same, the pool would find blocks faster, resulting in you getting smaller payouts at a faster rate and no major change in your total payouts over time......However, the total global Infinitecoin network's difficulty has also increased.  The difficulty at  23:57 on 13aug (around the time of point A) was 1.756 (block 197153) whereas the difficulty at 23:48 on 18 august was 4.437 (block 212399)...reducing to a difficulty of 1.956 at 23:49 on 18 august which was still above the 1.756 of 13th August's block 198306.  As a result your actual payouts over a period of time would be less.  

Hope this helps Smiley

Fun & Friendly p2pool Mining at TreasureQuarry.  Litecoin http://litecoin.treasurequarry.com:9327 Dash p2pool  http://dash.treasurequarry.com:7903
sololoop
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August 20, 2013, 01:21:21 AM
 #118

Moving forward and trying to help.

c1010010 can you give me your IFC address so that I can look at things for you about your reduced payments.  If things are not right we may need to rollback to the previous version but I'd like to avoid that if possible so I'd like to see what's happening with you.  

sololoop, what timezone is your miner displaying? I want to check the logs for the same time.

my timezone is UTC/GMT +8 hours
Actually, the reward for mining (3days) on Treasure is reasonable. My IFC coins payment is fine with capricious network diff. (1.2 raise to 8.2 within hour and drop back to 2.4 on next hour).

But there is one thing i am confused, the pool diff.(displayed on Treasure's stats page) seem not working/broken?
For the low hashrate miner, it is doubtful whether his miner is mining correctly.
For example : my previous 350k miner get a share above pool diff. , i suppose this address will enter the payout list but no... until the miner got a block then the address in.
c1010010
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August 20, 2013, 01:44:33 AM
 #119

<WISDOM>
Hope this helps Smiley


It absolutely does.  I kinda feel stupid about not noticing the pool hashrate - but I guess I have a stupidity-clause because I was zoomed in too far to notice it.  I see it now.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

         YOU TOO CAN BE A MILLIONAIRE – INFINITECOIN Infinite possibilities – http://infinitecointalk.org          
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August 20, 2013, 02:41:45 AM
 #120

Pleased to help, c1010010.

sololoop, thanks for pointing this out - you're right, the pool difficulty isn't showing correctly on the stats page.  Both the pool difficulty and the time to share are underreporting by a factor of about 10 on the stats page but P2Pool's logs show higher difficulty.  

At the moment, for example, the logs show Share difficulty: 0.516141 whereas the share difficulty shown on the stats page is  0.0513.

Similarly the logs show  Expected time to share: 27.3 seconds (equivalent to 0.455 minutes) whereas the stats page shows 0.0459 minutes.

The logs seem to be correct and the pool seems to be behaving in accordance with the logs.  No idea at the moment why the stats page is showing the incorrect figures.

A similar situation has also been reported by another p2pool user at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=18313.msg2961120#msg2961120  .  

I'll post a message in that thread and see tomorrow if the ratios remain the same.  

Fun & Friendly p2pool Mining at TreasureQuarry.  Litecoin http://litecoin.treasurequarry.com:9327 Dash p2pool  http://dash.treasurequarry.com:7903
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