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Author Topic: Bitcoin Must Crash - $7500 Is The Peak  (Read 1973 times)
thinair
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November 09, 2017, 05:59:33 PM
 #1

Bitcoin Price - all years
https://www.coindesk.com/price/

Many people here have a wrong concept about long term investment, that it only mean to  buy-and-hold - holding no matter what. The term investment itself implies a wise decision. The first cardinal principle of investment is:
   
Invest for profit.

I do not know how to comment on "investors" who do not care much about profit.

   Short-term Trading:
There are indeed short and long term investment. Short term investment is speculation in very volatile markets -  to make profits by buy-low and sell-high in a time span of a day or even just hours. The greater the volatility, the better it is for the such traders. But such short term trading is only for the very sharp traders - it is a zero sum game (with crypto, it should be done by bots - program trading). Short term traders do not take the risk of holding bitcoin balances; they only ride a rising market as in the past months. Thus short term trading may only be profitable in a rising market, never in a falling bear market.

   Long-term Investment:
Long term investment means to buy a commodity that holds value in the future. A proper investment implies knowing when to buy and when not to buy. Just because we "buy-and-hold" does not mean that, whenever we have some spare funds to invest, we immediately enter the market. Entering the market to buy with no timing consideration is no investment. We only invest to maximize profit and this may only be achieved when we have good timing. The second principle in investment:
   
Timing is important in successful investing.
.   
The need for timing applies even for long term investment.

Let's assume we agree that bitcoin is a good long term investment - it's value in the long term will always rise. But don't forget that nearly all commodities rise in the long term. Even prices of coal, corn and pork belly would rise in the long term because of the nature our fiat system. So, even buying bitcoin still is very dependent of timing if you "care" to make profits.

Many here think that, because bitcoin will surely have an increased value in the long term, any moment is a correct moment to buy. It is not! What if the current price of $7000  is the peak and it  crashed to a low of a $1000 in 2020. It recovers to $7000 in 2025. You'll be in the red for 8 years! That's not good long term investment! Ok, it is only a "what if".

So for these so-called long term "buy-and-hold" bitcoin purists, the question now is :
   
Is this the time to buy?
Go to the link above and see the chart for the bitcoin price for all years. You must know how to zoom in at the frame around 2014 covering the rise and crash about Dec 2013 (Mt. Gox period). The market rose from $120 to $900 and crashed back to ±$230 about 2015. Only when you zoomed in will you see the similarity between that rally and this - they are similar (only visually evident when you zoomed in because of scale difference).

This current rally is the same as the one in 2013, the only difference is the scale:
   
The current rally is an exponential rise.
All financial markets that rise exponentially will crash - even for the best of investment medium. It is almost a law of nature, just like the law of large numbers and the return to the norm.
   
This Bitcoin price of $7000 is the peak and it must crash.
   

A third cardinal principle of investment:
      
Good timing requires patience and the ability to wait for the right moment.
      
So even for long term investors, this is not the time to buy.
   
Wait!
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November 09, 2017, 06:11:33 PM
 #2

This current rally is the same as the one in 2013, the only difference is the scale:
   
The current rally is an exponential rise.
All financial markets that rise exponentially will crash - even for the best of investment medium. It is almost a law of nature, just like the law of large numbers and the return to the norm.

Without the cancellation this fork rally would have superseeded $9000 with ease. Just some days been missing.

I do wonder if there had been insider news out there, since the S2X futures had been trading on extremely low volume. Merely because only obscure sites offering them? Or ... knowledge before the event?

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November 09, 2017, 06:14:38 PM
 #3

I dont think that it will crash soon, the price has been going super bullish for more than two weeks but it does not mean that the price will crash to zero or to less than four thousand dollars again.
I think that it will still be at this rate for some more days, nobody wants to see the price going down because it is not good for all of us who are still holding some bitcoins at the moment.
Maybe it would be a good opportunity to buy, but it is not convenient at all.



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thinair
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November 09, 2017, 06:39:46 PM
 #4

I dont think that it will crash soon, the price has been going super bullish for more than two weeks but it does not mean that the price will crash to zero or to less than four thousand dollars again.
I think that it will still be at this rate for some more days, nobody wants to see the price going down because it is not good for all of us who are still holding some bitcoins at the moment.
Maybe it would be a good opportunity to buy, but it is not convenient at all.
The mechanics of how a crash and a bear slide follow is this. If you have seen, the rally is exponential. Such markets is incompatible  with any short term "steady state". It must either rise sharply or fall steeply - there cannot be a side way market, say about $7000 for the next 1 month. This implies only two situations.
   
It is either rally to $12,000 or crash to $4000 in a month.

Which do you think is more likely?   
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November 09, 2017, 06:49:45 PM
 #5

I dont think that it will crash soon, the price has been going super bullish for more than two weeks but it does not mean that the price will crash to zero or to less than four thousand dollars again.
I think that it will still be at this rate for some more days, nobody wants to see the price going down because it is not good for all of us who are still holding some bitcoins at the moment.
Maybe it would be a good opportunity to buy, but it is not convenient at all.
The mechanics of how a crash and a bear slide follow is this. If you have seen, the rally is exponential. Such markets is incompatible  with any short term "steady state". It must either rise sharply or fall steeply - there cannot be a side way market, say about $7000 for the next 1 month. This implies only two situations.
   
It is either rally to $12,000 or crash to $4000 in a month.

Which do you think is more likely?   


I won't just go with the market's decision alone because demand and supply is what matters a lot and you can see yourself that the demand has risen from dust to skies which conglomerated investors to put their money into something called as the "most safe-haven ASSET" of 2017. Markets are looking for better proceedings from investors which is why we may see a "small" correction (not crash) in the next few days after which the spike that you are speaking about, will surely take place. And by the way, 7500 wasn't the peak but 7600 is the ATH for now.

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November 09, 2017, 07:34:31 PM
 #6

After the cancellation of SegWit2x, a fluctuation has been seen in the price of Bitcoin. But it is still approximately 7100$.It has become difficult to predict that whether the price will drop or rise as  no big change has been seen in the value.No doubt a rise has been seen in the altcoin market. Altcoins are getting back to their original prices.I think within this week it will be clear that whether Bitcoin will fall or rise. According to me their will be a correction which will bring  down the price to a reasonable value but their will be no crash.


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November 09, 2017, 07:58:50 PM
 #7

if you want to track bitcoin price will be crazy because it break all normal rules and always up
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November 09, 2017, 09:16:11 PM
 #8

if you want to track bitcoin price will be crazy because it break all normal rules and always up
I'll add one more principle of investment:
 
Wishful thinking and investment decision making cannot coexist.

When will bitcoin be $100,000 per BTC? Huh
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November 09, 2017, 09:24:36 PM
 #9

We are all waiting the time when we'll pay everything with bitcoin with ease, there's no sense in changing back bitcoin to fiat.

Pork belly will probably pump next years, but is difficult to store and it stinks, and if you try to send it by mail regulators will stop it.

                               
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November 09, 2017, 09:26:50 PM
 #10

It will not crash for now, we all are expecting to see bitcoin below seven thousands again in order to buy some more bitcoins, but it is not for dump purposes, we all want to keep buying more, and this is the main reason of why bitcoin will always be going up, because we all want to buy because we trust on it.
So nobody is expecting to see it "actually" going down, i mean, nobody expects to see a crash for now, so there is no need to worry because of that.
If people doesnt want it to happen, then it is not going to happen, just like it did with the segwit fork.

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November 09, 2017, 09:29:27 PM
 #11

if you want to track bitcoin price will be crazy because it break all normal rules and always up
I'll add one more principle of investment:
 
Wishful thinking and investment decision making cannot coexist.

When will bitcoin be $100,000 per BTC? Huh

I don't know what you seek to achieve by predicting the crash of bitcoin and even setting a standard that has already been surpassed. Yesterday, bitcoin reached a high level of $7800 which makes your predicted cap to not only be wrong but already defeated. With all the features and steps that you have analysed above, if there is a thing that bitcoin is fond of, its about reacting otherwise to proven and established principles like the one you have quoted.

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November 09, 2017, 09:44:45 PM
 #12

We are all waiting the time when we'll pay everything with bitcoin with ease, there's no sense in changing back bitcoin to fiat.

Pork belly will probably pump next years, but is difficult to store and it stinks, and if you try to send it by mail regulators will stop it.
Bitcoin will never and can never replace fiat:
One of the quality needed for a token to be money is that the total supply is evenly distributed among the population. Even though Bill Gates's wealth is into the billions, his personal holding of cash USD is only an miniscule  part of the total US money supply. But Bitcoin is not distributed throughout the world's population and so can never serve as money.

Bitcoin may only be a medium of speculation:
Bitcoin will only ensure more wealth transfer from the bottom 99% to the top 1%

By definition, the world of speculation means the bottom 95% of small investor will always suffer lost. In the current rally to above USD7500, these 95% will never ultimately be sitting happily with their "profits" riding the wave upwards. By definition, the correction would be a bloody for the 95%.     

It is a myth that Bitcoin is anyway near being "money". Most bitcoin enthusiasts believe fervently that we have found "the money that...bankers cannot touch" and which is the very answer and antidote for fiat money - it is not.
      Bitcoin for buy and hold is only self-delusion. The 21 millions of BTC can never be evenly distributed among the 7.6 billion of the worlds population.
 
Just this alone will ensure that Bitcoin will offer no economic benefit  to the world.
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November 09, 2017, 09:51:10 PM
 #13

It will not crash for now, we all are expecting to see bitcoin below seven thousands again in order to buy some more bitcoins, but it is not for dump purposes, we all want to keep buying more, and this is the main reason of why bitcoin will always be going up, because we all want to buy because we trust on it.
So nobody is expecting to see it "actually" going down, i mean, nobody expects to see a crash for now, so there is no need to worry because of that.
If people doesnt want it to happen, then it is not going to happen, just like it did with the segwit fork.
"...buy some more bitcoins, but it is not for dump purposes, we all want to keep buying more, ..."

If this is your reason for buying bitcoins, I have nothing more to say.
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November 09, 2017, 09:54:15 PM
 #14

if you want to track bitcoin price will be crazy because it break all normal rules and always up
I'll add one more principle of investment:
 
Wishful thinking and investment decision making cannot coexist.

When will bitcoin be $100,000 per BTC? Huh

I don't know what you seek to achieve by predicting the crash of bitcoin and even setting a standard that has already been surpassed. Yesterday, bitcoin reached a high level of $7800 which makes your predicted cap to not only be wrong but already defeated. With all the features and steps that you have analysed above, if there is a thing that bitcoin is fond of, its about reacting otherwise to proven and established principles like the one you have quoted.
" ...if there is a thing that bitcoin is fond of, its about reacting otherwise to proven and established principles like the one you have quoted."

If this is your view, I have nothing more to comment.
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November 09, 2017, 10:01:21 PM
 #15

We are all waiting the time when we'll pay everything with bitcoin with ease, there's no sense in changing back bitcoin to fiat.

Pork belly will probably pump next years, but is difficult to store and it stinks, and if you try to send it by mail regulators will stop it.
Bitcoin will never and can never replace fiat:
One of the quality needed for a token to be money is that the total supply is evenly distributed among the population. Even though Bill Gates's wealth is into the billions, his personal holding of cash USD is only an miniscule  part of the total US money supply. But Bitcoin is not distributed throughout the world's population and so can never serve as money.

Bitcoin may only be a medium of speculation:
Bitcoin will only ensure more wealth transfer from the bottom 99% to the top 1%

By definition, the world of speculation means the bottom 95% of small investor will always suffer lost. In the current rally to above USD7500, these 95% will never ultimately be sitting happily with their "profits" riding the wave upwards. By definition, the correction would be a bloody for the 95%.    

It is a myth that Bitcoin is anyway near being "money". Most bitcoin enthusiasts believe fervently that we have found "the money that...bankers cannot touch" and which is the very answer and antidote for fiat money - it is not.
      Bitcoin for buy and hold is only self-delusion. The 21 millions of BTC can never be evenly distributed among the 7.6 billion of the worlds population.
 
Just this alone will ensure that Bitcoin will offer no economic benefit  to the world.


We are all waiting the time when we'll pay everything with bitcoin with ease, there's no sense in changing back bitcoin to fiat.

Pork belly will probably pump next years, but is difficult to store and it stinks, and if you try to send it by mail regulators will stop it.
Bitcoin will never and can never replace fiat:
One of the quality needed for a token to be money is that the total supply is evenly distributed among the population. Even though Bill Gates's wealth is into the billions, his personal holding of cash USD is only an miniscule  part of the total US money supply. But Bitcoin is not distributed throughout the world's population and so can never serve as money.

Bitcoin may only be a medium of speculation:
Bitcoin will only ensure more wealth transfer from the bottom 99% to the top 1%

By definition, the world of speculation means the bottom 95% of small investor will always suffer lost. In the current rally to above USD7500, these 95% will never ultimately be sitting happily with their "profits" riding the wave upwards. By definition, the correction would be a bloody for the 95%.    

It is a myth that Bitcoin is anyway near being "money". Most bitcoin enthusiasts believe fervently that we have found "the money that...bankers cannot touch" and which is the very answer and antidote for fiat money - it is not.
      Bitcoin for buy and hold is only self-delusion. The 21 millions of BTC can never be evenly distributed among the 7.6 billion of the worlds population.
 
Just this alone will ensure that Bitcoin will offer no economic benefit  to the world.






https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_wealth#


Fiat not doing better

                               
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November 09, 2017, 10:32:40 PM
 #16


Of course not. It's the same distribution mechanics of knowledge, commitment and maybe some luck again. Who doesn't own fiat does not buy bitcoin.
Obtaining production capacity for manufactoring, or for mining bitcoins comes hardly any different.

The differences and most of the idealism had been present at the start merely.

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November 09, 2017, 11:02:08 PM
 #17

I think you misunderstood what I mean; it is never about distribution of wealth.

That bitcoin will never be a medium of exchange is because there is no way I can see bitcoins being distributed to people at large. It becomes money only when everyone has some in their pockets for shopping. I think this can never happen with private crypto. No token can be an efficient medium of payment without the backing by central governments. So bitcoin as we have it now will never be an efficient medium of payment.

I recently read mainstream news about a Singapore startup TenX ...about bringing the "bitcoin" experience to Singaporeans - debit cards sponsored by Visa. Its is just plain silly! Grin Adding another layer of silly complexity! Just top up your card with fiat and pay! What a "startup"!   
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November 09, 2017, 11:24:40 PM
 #18

Bitcoin must crash? Seems very imposing.
I don't think $7500 is the peak, bitcoin even reach $7800 yesterday, don't you know that?

And then 2x hard fork suspended in order to keep community together, but people's speculation divide into two groups; bitcoin will rise or bitcoin will fall. Consider current price, bitcoin seems losing its value after reach the peak, but I don't think 2x cancelation will affect its price significantly. I guess bitcoin will stand over $7000 as the new bottom line.



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....ANGEL TOKEN....


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November 09, 2017, 11:40:27 PM
 #19

Bitcoin must crash? Seems very imposing.
I don't think $7500 is the peak, bitcoin even reach $7800 yesterday, don't you know that?

And then 2x hard fork suspended in order to keep community together, but people's speculation divide into two groups; bitcoin will rise or bitcoin will fall. Consider current price, bitcoin seems losing its value after reach the peak, but I don't think 2x cancelation will affect its price significantly. I guess bitcoin will stand over $7000 as the new bottom line.
I am born with eyes that works in special ways - it does average and smooth things up for me instinctively Grin. I see the peak to be $7500.

The Segwit2x talk started about middle 2016 and intensified in May 2017 with the NYA. I think it is all these that cause the exponential bull rally - all media on full throttle pumping up the market for the eventual dump. Many here said they will not dump, but the manipulators will.
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November 09, 2017, 11:48:46 PM
 #20

Crash? No. Go through a correction? Yes. It's pure madness if we look at how the price has gone up in the last months. It almost seems like it has been breaking through record high after record high effortlessly.

We must however remain realistic and understand that what goes up fast, can also go down fast. Peaks most often don't last very long as they are nearly always followed up by a dive towards the Southern regions.

I am not that much interested in trading at this point, but if we do happen to see a correction take place, I will use it to increase my holdings even more as I have enough fiat aside now that I can put into action.

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November 10, 2017, 12:05:13 AM
 #21

I would define crash as anything below $3,000. We are a long, long way from that. Bitcoin is already stabilizing and has refused to go below $7,000. The consensus is that we could make a move to $10k anytime soon.
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November 10, 2017, 12:11:08 AM
 #22

This current rally is the same as the one in 2013, the only difference is the scale:
   
The current rally is an exponential rise.
All financial markets that rise exponentially will crash - even for the best of investment medium. It is almost a law of nature, just like the law of large numbers and the return to the norm.

Without the cancellation this fork rally would have superseeded $9000 with ease. Just some days been missing.

I do wonder if there had been insider news out there, since the S2X futures had been trading on extremely low volume. Merely because only obscure sites offering them? Or ... knowledge before the event?

Yep. If the announcement of Segwit2x cancellation has been speculated by a month ago pricing would pretty much be different by a lot. It might reach $9000 today if it wasn't for Segwit2x. But more than that I think it is pretty much a Jebait in pricing though.

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November 10, 2017, 12:11:54 AM
 #23

i do not think we will see another history repeat again in the near future,
and in my opinion 2013 and 2017 are totally different,
what i am talking about is back then the price is pumping while the demand itself it's not really that many compared today.
and the other reason behind that mass dump a while ago because of an exit pump caused by MT.GOX,but for now ?
also crash ? that will not happen because if we called it 'crash',does that mean it will never recover its value back in the future,right ?
even if what you said is correct,the value of this asset will be totally destroyed in the future and of course it'll be gone,
because the 'crash' itself mean the 'gone',but right now i could not find a reason about this 'crash'.
at best we should see a correction,nothing more than that and it has a lot of room to grow for future.

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November 10, 2017, 12:56:03 PM
 #24

coindesk.com 1 day price chart:
https://www.coindesk.com/price

$7083 Thu 9 Nov 23:50 UTC
$7319 Fri 10 Nov 01:00 UTC
$7100 Fri 10 Nov 10:00 UTC
A sharp vertical rise in  1hr 10 min.
A slow drop in 9 hr. back to where it started at $7100.

The above prices from the 1 day chart illustrates a typical pattern of the "pump-and-dumb" by the very powerful players. How do they do it?

Say this player has a fund of $100 million (just hypothetical figures). He computes the average rate of transaction for the recent past, say 1 day, to be X BTC/hr. He buys $100 million of BTC evenly at rate 20X BTC/hr. The price would shoot up vertical. After completing buying his $100 million BTC, he sells all the acquired BTC, but at a reduced rate of 2X BTC/hr evenly, unloading all BTC and getting back his $100 million - he takes no risk keeping any BTC. In a rising market, such as before the news about the cancellation of the Segwit2x hard fork, he would find that after unloading all the BTC, he makes a profit, say $25 million.

The reason for the $25 million is simple human psychology. After the steep rise in price, every bid/offer thereafter will have a higher market price expectation. New first time buyers would be pulled along and buy at such pumped-up prices. That's how the $25 million of profit is almost guaranteed .      

The $100 million is recycled all the time for the last 1 year. On average every cycle will be profitable. When it becomes unprofitable when the last few pumps do not make a profit, it indicates a market top.

This typical pump-and-dump figures as shown above shows the market getting back to where it started - $7100. It is a red flag that the market is at its peak:
   
The BTC market must crash - $7500 is the peak. There are insufficient first time new buyers entering the market.
   
From now onward, the very powerful players would be unloading ALL (such players do not have any concept of "buy-and-hold") their large holdings of bitcoins, but at a very even pace over a longer time span, say of 1½ years; these large hoard of coins could have been acquire at $500.
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November 10, 2017, 02:03:40 PM
 #25

We are all waiting the time when we'll pay everything with bitcoin with ease, there's no sense in changing back bitcoin to fiat.

Pork belly will probably pump next years, but is difficult to store and it stinks, and if you try to send it by mail regulators will stop it.
Bitcoin will never and can never replace fiat:
One of the quality needed for a token to be money is that the total supply is evenly distributed among the population. Even though Bill Gates's wealth is into the billions, his personal holding of cash USD is only an miniscule  part of the total US money supply. But Bitcoin is not distributed throughout the world's population and so can never serve as money.

Bitcoin may only be a medium of speculation:
Bitcoin will only ensure more wealth transfer from the bottom 99% to the top 1%

By definition, the world of speculation means the bottom 95% of small investor will always suffer lost. In the current rally to above USD7500, these 95% will never ultimately be sitting happily with their "profits" riding the wave upwards. By definition, the correction would be a bloody for the 95%.     

It is a myth that Bitcoin is anyway near being "money". Most bitcoin enthusiasts believe fervently that we have found "the money that...bankers cannot touch" and which is the very answer and antidote for fiat money - it is not.
      Bitcoin for buy and hold is only self-delusion. The 21 millions of BTC can never be evenly distributed among the 7.6 billion of the worlds population.
 
Just this alone will ensure that Bitcoin will offer no economic benefit  to the world.


Your analysis are not suited for bitcoin. Bitcoin breaks every foundation of stocks trading.
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November 10, 2017, 02:38:05 PM
 #26

Bitcoin is new born investments that doesn’t have no rules to follow,, those you’ve mentioned won’t give the real time brain movement of each investors.. Those holders might not aiming for a small profits that is why they don’t sell at the peak price for a months.. They have more than enough reason in doing so,, that is trust to cryptocurrency future as well as it’s popularity seems moving faster around the world..

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November 10, 2017, 02:56:14 PM
 #27

Bitcoin is new born investments that doesn’t have no rules to follow,, those you’ve mentioned won’t give the real time brain movement of each investors.. Those holders might not aiming for a small profits that is why they don’t sell at the peak price for a months.. They have more than enough reason in doing so,, that is trust to cryptocurrency future as well as it’s popularity seems moving faster around the world..
Sure. We all see things differently.

But there are immutable laws of nature.
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November 10, 2017, 04:05:46 PM
 #28

Yes this could be happen, I think this value can be happen until end of this year.
Every years demand of bitcoin is raise and more investors will joint in bitcoin.



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senne
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November 10, 2017, 05:40:51 PM
 #29

if you want to track bitcoin price will be crazy because it break all normal rules and always up

You are true about you predication about Bitcoin as it is hard to track the price of Bitcoin. But here let's focus upon the crash or correction in the price of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is just increasing non-stop and it has severe effect on alt coin also, increase in Bitcoin price is beneficial but rising at such a speed can cause great loss to alt market and everyone may just get concentrated to Bitcoin only.

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November 10, 2017, 05:59:37 PM
 #30

Reading the posts in this forum, it could easily be seen that many of those who bought bitcoins don't know what they are doing. They act only because they have been influenced by all the talk about how great bitcoin is - about blockchain, hashrate, proof-of-work, 256 bits private keys, difficulty level, SHA256, 21 million limit... - how it could end world hunger, put wealth into every creature on earth...the greatest creation in mankind's history since Eve was created from a rib bone plucked from Adam's,...

Investment is almost the same as speculation and the difference is only a fine line. Unless you explicitly do not "invest" for profit, the medium of investment is immaterial; you go where there is the most profit in the shortest time frame. If coffee futures will make you a 1000% profit in a year, go for it! Only don't do Heroin futures, etc.    

Matthew 6:34King James Version (KJV) 34
Quote
Take therefore no thought for the morrow:
for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself.
Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Don't worry about the fiat system or Bitcoin,
What power do you wield when you buy at 7000,
Wait for 5 years in the red,
To again knock on the door to 7000,
Worrying about the 'morrow for 5 years.  

Those who insist they will buy-and-hold as their target is $10,000. Come $10,000.

   Seek and you shall find,
   Knock and the door of $10,000 shalt be open unto thee.

What are you going to do? OK I'll sell as I have reached my target. The market keeps going higher and higher, $11,000, $12,000... You cannot wait and enter the door of $15,000 unbeckoned Grin  

Success as an investor means timing - ability to read signs and to pick highs and lows relatively well.  
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November 10, 2017, 06:49:47 PM
 #31

Mate, i think Yeah you are right.  Bitcoin already dump around 6900$ and now 1 Bitcoin equals 6828.06 US Dollar. Possible to go down more but i Always believe in bitcoin and i think bitcoin able to recover its price within 1 month and  obviously can hit 10k dollsr or more in the next few months

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November 10, 2017, 06:51:48 PM
 #32

Reading the posts in this forum, it could easily be seen that many of those who bought bitcoins don't know what they are doing. They act only because they have been influenced by all the talk about how great bitcoin is - about blockchain, hashrate, proof-of-work, 256 bits private keys, difficulty level, SHA256, 21 million limit... - how it could end world hunger, put wealth into every creature on earth...the greatest creation in mankind's history since Eve was created from a rib bone plucked from Adam's,...

Seeing your history translates it to you thinking and defining Bitcoins as a Pyramid scheme itself, the way Dimon said.
There's nothing wrong when you say that, as everyone has their own thinking and it differs from point-to-point.
Let me evaluate those words which ^influenced^ everyone here.
Blockchain is the best technology that could eradicate corruption from almost every field.
Hashrate is the mining power that's generated through combination of internet, electricity and mining equipment to generate bitcoins and run blockchain. PoW is the "type of protocol" miners need to follow (for Bitcoins) in order to generate it.
Private keys are something without which we hold nothing even if we have more than 1k Bitcoins on an address that's possessed by an exchange.
Difficulty level is the level that determines the current difficulty of the "mathematical problem" that mining power needs to solve.
SHA256 is the algorithm on which Bitcoin works. 21 million total Bitcoins will ever be mined.

Now, who compared Bitcoins to the world's "greatest creation" in mankind history? Satoshi never told Bitcoins would end world hunger, but it can at least give you something as an "extra income" to pay bills or buy some grocery for a few days of the month. Those who earn it, know about the potential as well as value of it.



Quote
Investment is almost the same as speculation and the difference is only a fine line. Unless you explicitly do not "invest" for profit, the medium of investment is immaterial; you go where there is the most profit in the shortest time frame. If coffee futures will make you a 1000% profit in a year, go for it! Only don't do Heroin futures, etc.  
 

Everyone invests for profit as "investments" are meant to be bound by expectations that it will yield us something in the future, which makes speculation directly correlated to it. If you were at my place, wouldn't you buy the same coffee futures you told us to, when you know (or have some insider info) that it will yield you a 10x profit in short term?



Quote
Success as an investor means timing - ability to read signs and to pick highs and lows relatively well.  

The only line that impressed me as well as the real truth.

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November 10, 2017, 06:58:18 PM
 #33

Bitcoin will never and can never replace fiat:
One of the quality needed for a token to be money is that the total supply is evenly distributed among the population. Even though Bill Gates's wealth is into the billions, his personal holding of cash USD is only an miniscule  part of the total US money supply. But Bitcoin is not distributed throughout the world's population and so can never serve as money.

Bitcoin may only be a medium of speculation:
Bitcoin will only ensure more wealth transfer from the bottom 99% to the top 1%

By definition, the world of speculation means the bottom 95% of small investor will always suffer lost. In the current rally to above USD7500, these 95% will never ultimately be sitting happily with their "profits" riding the wave upwards. By definition, the correction would be a bloody for the 95%.     

It is a myth that Bitcoin is anyway near being "money". Most bitcoin enthusiasts believe fervently that we have found "the money that...bankers cannot touch" and which is the very answer and antidote for fiat money - it is not.
      Bitcoin for buy and hold is only self-delusion. The 21 millions of BTC can never be evenly distributed among the 7.6 billion of the worlds population.
 
Just this alone will ensure that Bitcoin will offer no economic benefit  to the world.


What's with all this socialist propaganda around here?
Why does bitcoin have to be distributed evenly among the world population?

Is not wealth distributed equally?
Let me give you an example:

Quote
In 2012, the Indian government stated 22% of its population is below its official poverty limit. The World Bank, in 2011 based on 2005's PPPs International Comparison Program, estimated 23.6% of Indian population, or about 276 million people, lived below $1.25 per day on purchasing power parity.

This would mean that all those 200 and so million people will earn less than 1 million workers in the it sector in US.
Do you think wealth is equally distributed?
Let's compare what an average american has and what an average Somali person.

Bitcoin was never meant to make people equal nor was a magic socialist utopia solution.
Deal with it, no matter what the system is , some will be 1 million times wealthier than the others.

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November 10, 2017, 07:24:09 PM
 #34

Bitcoin will never and can never replace fiat:
One of the quality needed for a token to be money is that the total supply is evenly distributed among the population. Even though Bill Gates's wealth is into the billions, his personal holding of cash USD is only an miniscule  part of the total US money supply. But Bitcoin is not distributed throughout the world's population and so can never serve as money.

Bitcoin may only be a medium of speculation:
Bitcoin will only ensure more wealth transfer from the bottom 99% to the top 1%

By definition, the world of speculation means the bottom 95% of small investor will always suffer lost. In the current rally to above USD7500, these 95% will never ultimately be sitting happily with their "profits" riding the wave upwards. By definition, the correction would be a bloody for the 95%.     

It is a myth that Bitcoin is anyway near being "money". Most bitcoin enthusiasts believe fervently that we have found "the money that...bankers cannot touch" and which is the very answer and antidote for fiat money - it is not.
      Bitcoin for buy and hold is only self-delusion. The 21 millions of BTC can never be evenly distributed among the 7.6 billion of the worlds population.
 
Just this alone will ensure that Bitcoin will offer no economic benefit  to the world.


What's with all this socialist propaganda around here?
Why does bitcoin have to be distributed evenly among the world population?

Is not wealth distributed equally?
Let me give you an example:

Quote
In 2012, the Indian government stated 22% of its population is below its official poverty limit. The World Bank, in 2011 based on 2005's PPPs International Comparison Program, estimated 23.6% of Indian population, or about 276 million people, lived below $1.25 per day on purchasing power parity.

This would mean that all those 200 and so million people will earn less than 1 million workers in the it sector in US.
Do you think wealth is equally distributed?
Let's compare what an average american has and what an average Somali person.

Bitcoin was never meant to make people equal nor was a magic socialist utopia solution.
Deal with it, no matter what the system is , some will be 1 million times wealthier than the others.

It seems most of the people here confuse ownership of wealth with ownership of cash - coins in your pocket to buy your grocery.

Say Bill Gates hates all these cards, Visa/MasterCard - he only believes in current account and dollar bills. He goes to the grocery and pays with coins and bills. He lives in a hut paying rental, etc. He needs a current account balance of only $30,000 to last for a month. His wealth goes into the billions, but his ownership of coins (compare, Bitcoin) is $30,000. His ownership of the total US money supply is $30,000.

Many of you probably have current account of $100,000. You hold more proportion  of the US money supply M3 than Bill Gates. This is the crux. A poor in India may only have $5 in his pocket, but this 5: 30,000 still means the US dollar money supply is "well" distributed throughout the population - this is the most important criteria for a token to qualify as a medium of payment and exchange.

   Bitcoin will never be able to fulfill the role as a token of payment.
     

Ownership of the M3 money supply at any moment is not the same as ownership of wealth.
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November 11, 2017, 06:55:49 AM
 #35

https://www.coindesk.com/price
10 Nov 21:00  UTC - $6424,  low
11 Nov  02:00 to 05:00    $6800,  high

Rebound from $6400 to $6800 in 5 hr. Now about $6700.

This rebound can easily be understood. It is from those wanting to acquire more bitcoins on dips at "better" prices. Another group is those wanting to have a piece of this bitcoin thing and now entering the first time because of the dip.     

It is very, very likely that $7500 is the all-time-high for the next 5 years because there won't be enough of new investors to push the price again to new highs. The very large players would now be taking profits pushing back bitcoin to $1000 - $2000 levels.

For those who have not bought into Bitcoin yet:

   If you can't wait for 1½ years, try at least to wait for a month.
   Wait!
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November 11, 2017, 02:56:57 PM
 #36

I would define crash as anything below $3,000. We are a long, long way from that. Bitcoin is already stabilizing and has refused to go below $7,000. The consensus is that we could make a move to $10k anytime soon.
At least we must think about the $6000 should be the next bottom of the bitcoin itself, due to the a lot of the FUD from the bitcoin cash fans to the bitcoin in various forum and the cryptonews site especially about the bitcoin cahs supporter's site just like bitcoin.com



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November 11, 2017, 03:05:37 PM
 #37

If you can't wait for 1½ years, try at least to wait for a month.
Wait!

So according to your predictions, we will see an even greater price decline within next month?
I don't think it will be that long a time needed to fully process current correction - IMO we will not have this dip for more than 2 weeks.
But you are right, the time to buy bitcoin is now - anyone who waited for a good entry point - this is the time for you.

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November 11, 2017, 03:49:21 PM
 #38

I would define crash as anything below $3,000. We are a long, long way from that. Bitcoin is already stabilizing and has refused to go below $7,000. The consensus is that we could make a move to $10k anytime soon.
At least we must think about the $6000 should be the next bottom of the bitcoin itself, due to the a lot of the FUD from the bitcoin cash fans to the bitcoin in various forum and the cryptonews site especially about the bitcoin cahs supporter's site just like bitcoin.com
The low bottom value of bitcoin too cannot be predicted at present. The value has declined in a much steeper manner and still continues. Now the alts too have been experiencing dump, so soon can expect price increase altogether. This can be used as an opportunity to into bitcoin and altcoins.

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November 11, 2017, 04:03:02 PM
 #39

I would define crash as anything below $3,000. We are a long, long way from that. Bitcoin is already stabilizing and has refused to go below $7,000. The consensus is that we could make a move to $10k anytime soon.

IMO the price is already treading dangerous levels, it looks like it can break and crash any moment. Hopefully, the strong demand we have right now would be sustained.

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November 11, 2017, 04:20:39 PM
 #40

I would define crash as anything below $3,000. We are a long, long way from that. Bitcoin is already stabilizing and has refused to go below $7,000. The consensus is that we could make a move to $10k anytime soon.

IMO the price is already treading dangerous levels, it looks like it can break and crash any moment. Hopefully, the strong demand we have right now would be sustained.
Many have been surprise with bitcoin drops due to segwit cancellation. But as usual it is normal in bitcoin movement in the exchange price suddenly drops. Yet hope this is temporary that btc will recovering.

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November 11, 2017, 04:24:42 PM
 #41

I would define crash as anything below $3,000. We are a long, long way from that. Bitcoin is already stabilizing and has refused to go below $7,000. The consensus is that we could make a move to $10k anytime soon.

IMO the price is already treading dangerous levels, it looks like it can break and crash any moment. Hopefully, the strong demand we have right now would be sustained.

Bitcoin price is falling but I wouldn't say that this is something dangerous, for me crash would be back to 1000 dollars. While price is rising people here are happy, when price start to go down fud and panic threads are instantly created.
Op was right about peak, price is going down and who have money should buy on dip. Will dip be on 6000 dollars or we will see 5000$ its not so relevant, look at that from the bright side unique chance for buying bitcoins with 20-30% discount cause price will get back to 7000 mark before new year.


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November 11, 2017, 05:28:54 PM
 #42

My question for this forum is:
What is the reason that bitcoin will consolidate soon and will surpassed $7500 towards $10,000, say at year end?

The current exponential rally started from Aug 2016 $600 - or 1 year 3 months. I now understand it to be solely because of the talks about Segwit2x. A hard fork is bitcoin money printing to be distributed ONLY to holders of bitcoin at 1:1.  ALL crypto has value. Especially free alt-coin that rides on the back of bitcoin will have a value and the reference value of B2X would be a % of BTC. What if B2X were to be valued same as BTC? - a huge bonanza.

      
The sole reason for the recent rally is free coins from a  Segwit2x hard fork.
      
There is no other reason - definitely not from ordinary small investor who would be doing buy-and-hold. If such were a powerful group, the rally could have started much earlier. Was there a rally in 2015 before talks of hard fork free coins? NO!

   There is now no more reason why bitcoin price should still go up at current levels.
   
So the only way for bitcoin is DOWN until it finds a proper floor price. It started from $600 and this should be the reference price for the actual bottom. A guess may be $1000 - $2000 in 1 or 2 years time.

At the least, wait for a month to see how things develop.

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November 11, 2017, 05:36:19 PM
 #43

look at that from the bright side unique chance for buying bitcoins with 20-30% discount cause price will get back to 7000 mark before new year.

People here are always too late. They likely bought their coins very close to the peak levels, and for that reason aren't in a position to see it as an opportunity. If we look at the charts, there is a similar pattern visible, hinting at a correction somewhere close to the +$7000 levels we visited before the market went down. It doesn't require any actual market understanding to spot that pattern, but just common sense. At worst we'll be testing the $5000 level in the very short term, but I don't expect the market to fall that much down. My guess is a dip just under the $6000 level ($5800-$5900) where after that we will see the market go back up again.

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November 11, 2017, 05:47:20 PM
 #44

look at that from the bright side unique chance for buying bitcoins with 20-30% discount cause price will get back to 7000 mark before new year.

People here are always too late. They likely bought their coins very close to the peak levels, and for that reason aren't in a position to see it as an opportunity. If we look at the charts, there is a similar pattern visible, hinting at a correction somewhere close to the +$7000 levels we visited before the market went down. It doesn't require any actual market understanding to spot that pattern, but just common sense. At worst we'll be testing the $5000 level in the very short term, but I don't expect the market to fall that much down. My guess is a dip just under the $6000 level ($5800-$5900) where after that we will see the market go back up again.
It seems you have the notion of bitcoin having an intrinsic value or "fair" price. The only price of bitcoin is the quotes from the exchanges.

I am no expert of the blockchain technology. It seems ethereum, bitcoin-cash and bitcoin all are using the same technology. So, which should be more valuable is only for the buyers and sellers. I don't see how we could tag a value of $5000 or $6000 to be the fair bottom. It seems to me the $600 reference just before the rally should be more useful.
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November 13, 2017, 09:48:37 AM
 #45

12 Nov 06:00 - $5600
12 Nov 22:00 - $5680

The market tested the lows within 16 hr. The market is now at around $6350.
   
   For those who are in profit, locking in the profit is safe.
   For those who are not yet in bitcoin, at the least wait for a month.
   Wait.  
This bitcoin "investment" is only for those who in the past have been successful speculating in other financial markets like stocks, forex and futures; for such speculators, bitcoin is the next best thing after the creation of future derivatives. Bitcoin is not for those who even have lost money in stocks. If you have a track record of losing money in stocks, the chances is your lost in bitcoin would be much greater.

Those who talk about bitcoin going to $10,000 by Christmas is just fantasizing - from pure unadulterated greed.
   It is pure greed believing bitcoin will go to $10,000 by year's end.
Why should bitcoin be worth $10,000? They believe in the talks by the propaganda about how bitcoin is the currency of the future...banks and governments cannot touch bitcoin and therefore there is no way it goes but UP...
   
All time is the correct time buying into bitcoin.
But they forget that bitcoin cannot be a currency, but only as a medium of speculation.
   
Bitcoin's only worth is as a medium of speculation for transfer of wealth from the bottom 95% to the top 5%.
I will not repeat my arguments as I have already explained in my other posts that bitcoin will never bring any real economic benefits to the world.
   
Ask yourself. Have you read what a bear market rally is? Do you know what it means by "a bear market rally trap"? If you do not know, then you should not be in bitcoin.
    
The two bear market rally from lows of %5600 are deadly traps. In a bear market - meaning the market will crash from the peak of $7500 to below $3000 within, say 2 months - all these rally pulls in those wanting a "bite" of the bitcoin cake and buying on dips - it is such dips which are deadly.
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November 13, 2017, 01:30:44 PM
 #46

Bitcoin is now at $6700 back from $5680.

12 Nov 23:00 -  $5680
13 Nov 13:00 -  $6700

Steep rise within 14 hr. This is again an exponential rise that can only come from pumping from very large players - including the exchanges themselves which have complete ease to buy and sell.

   The current rate of rise or pumping is the fasted rate in all recent history!
   The fall will be as fast as its rise.   
   

Ordinary demands cannot push bitcoin up at this rate. This round of pumping will have to stop very soon as there won't be enough of first time buyers waiting to get into bitcoins. Those wanting to transfer bitcoins to the exchanges to sell would find it very difficult because of bitcoin's very large pool of unconfirmed transactions.
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November 14, 2017, 02:37:35 PM
 #47

I think I am not welcomed in this forum.

I received this personal message from the moderator informing me of the deletion of a reply that I made to my thread : "Bitcoin will crash below $3000"
Quote
A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by a Bitcoin Forum moderator. Posts are most frequently deleted because they are off-topic, though they can also be deleted for other reasons. In the future, please avoid posting things that need to be deleted.

My reply is an answer to another comment. The only reason that I can see why my reply was deleted is that I argued that bitcoin has nothing to contribute to the good working of the world economic system. This is a purely academic hypothesis and I cannot see why a purely academic argument is not allowed to be freely expressed.

The moderators seem to dislike any argument that go against their official view about bitcoin. I cannot accept such suppression of decent freedom of expression. I have decided not to post any more comments about bitcoin here again. I may post in the technical sub forum if I need advice from the technical experts there.
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November 17, 2017, 12:29:40 AM
 #48

I am born with eyes that works in special ways - it does average and smooth things up for me instinctively Grin. I see the peak to be $7500.

Clearly you were born with eyes that suck. Too bad you've already left the forum and are no longer accountable for your stupid posts.
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November 17, 2017, 12:54:19 AM
 #49

En route to $8000  Shocked https://www.coingecko.com/en/price_charts/bitcoin/usd
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November 17, 2017, 01:33:18 AM
 #50

You might as well delete your account at this point. Your predictions of doom are showing you to be a real idiot.

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November 17, 2017, 01:36:45 AM
 #51

You might as well delete your account at this point. Your predictions of doom are showing you to be a real idiot.
LOL Well said, even when I read the thread title and then saw them quoting coindesk I knew it was going to be full of shit.

Go count you BCH OP and use what you have left to buy some tissues to wipe away those tears. 
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November 17, 2017, 01:50:36 AM
 #52

The reason of deleting your reply is nothing to do about personal interest of the moderator but maybe because it is not suite to the argument itself.

By the way, “Bitcoin must crash - $7500 is the peak??” Sorry for this but your wrong it’s 8000$ per bitcoin now, then I think you need to review your academic knowledge towards world currency and let this failure to make something that is beyond ones predictions an answer why most of us, bitcoin users will never understand rules and norms financially. Bitcoin is different from all. Period.
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November 17, 2017, 10:33:19 AM
 #53

Currently you can see btc price is increasing  and now 1 Bitcoin equals upto 7.9k US Dollar.  Bitcoin price is now increasing  so fast that i think it will be 2x of its price within the middle of next year

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November 17, 2017, 10:43:52 AM
 #54

Currently you can see btc price is increasing  and now 1 Bitcoin equals upto 7.9k US Dollar.  Bitcoin price is now increasing  so fast that i think it will be 2x of its price within the middle of next year

Bitcoin is back down to about $7700. It looks to me like it has made a double top and will head down to about $6000.

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November 17, 2017, 12:11:11 PM
 #55

Bitcoin Price - all years
https://www.coindesk.com/price/

Many people here have a wrong concept about long term investment, that it only mean to  buy-and-hold - holding no matter what. The term investment itself implies a wise decision. The first cardinal principle of investment is:
   
Invest for profit.

I do not know how to comment on "investors" who do not care much about profit.

   Short-term Trading:
There are indeed short and long term investment. Short term investment is speculation in very volatile markets -  to make profits by buy-low and sell-high in a time span of a day or even just hours. The greater the volatility, the better it is for the such traders. But such short term trading is only for the very sharp traders - it is a zero sum game (with crypto, it should be done by bots - program trading). Short term traders do not take the risk of holding bitcoin balances; they only ride a rising market as in the past months. Thus short term trading may only be profitable in a rising market, never in a falling bear market.

   Long-term Investment:
Long term investment means to buy a commodity that holds value in the future. A proper investment implies knowing when to buy and when not to buy. Just because we "buy-and-hold" does not mean that, whenever we have some spare funds to invest, we immediately enter the market. Entering the market to buy with no timing consideration is no investment. We only invest to maximize profit and this may only be achieved when we have good timing. The second principle in investment:
   
Timing is important in successful investing.
.   
The need for timing applies even for long term investment.

Let's assume we agree that bitcoin is a good long term investment - it's value in the long term will always rise. But don't forget that nearly all commodities rise in the long term. Even prices of coal, corn and pork belly would rise in the long term because of the nature our fiat system. So, even buying bitcoin still is very dependent of timing if you "care" to make profits.

Many here think that, because bitcoin will surely have an increased value in the long term, any moment is a correct moment to buy. It is not! What if the current price of $7000  is the peak and it  crashed to a low of a $1000 in 2020. It recovers to $7000 in 2025. You'll be in the red for 8 years! That's not good long term investment! Ok, it is only a "what if".

So for these so-called long term "buy-and-hold" bitcoin purists, the question now is :
   
Is this the time to buy?
Go to the link above and see the chart for the bitcoin price for all years. You must know how to zoom in at the frame around 2014 covering the rise and crash about Dec 2013 (Mt. Gox period). The market rose from $120 to $900 and crashed back to ±$230 about 2015. Only when you zoomed in will you see the similarity between that rally and this - they are similar (only visually evident when you zoomed in because of scale difference).

This current rally is the same as the one in 2013, the only difference is the scale:
   
The current rally is an exponential rise.
All financial markets that rise exponentially will crash - even for the best of investment medium. It is almost a law of nature, just like the law of large numbers and the return to the norm.
   
This Bitcoin price of $7000 is the peak and it must crash.
   

A third cardinal principle of investment:
      
Good timing requires patience and the ability to wait for the right moment.
      
So even for long term investors, this is not the time to buy.
   
Wait!


i think your definition about crash maybe when BCH almost reach 0.5 btc about 5 days ago,this is the crash you should expected and you should buy when price around $5000.now the price is $7800 got correction because traders want to took their profit and next the price will break $8000.
you need to remember when a chance come you need to grab the chance so you will not regret.
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November 17, 2017, 06:07:14 PM
 #56

I think I am not welcomed in this forum.

I received this personal message from the moderator informing me of the deletion of a reply that I made to my thread : "Bitcoin will crash below $3000"
Quote
A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by a Bitcoin Forum moderator. Posts are most frequently deleted because they are off-topic, though they can also be deleted for other reasons. In the future, please avoid posting things that need to be deleted.

My reply is an answer to another comment. The only reason that I can see why my reply was deleted is that I argued that bitcoin has nothing to contribute to the good working of the world economic system. This is a purely academic hypothesis and I cannot see why a purely academic argument is not allowed to be freely expressed.

The moderators seem to dislike any argument that go against their official view about bitcoin. I cannot accept such suppression of decent freedom of expression. I have decided not to post any more comments about bitcoin here again. I may post in the technical sub forum if I need advice from the technical experts there.


it's not about you're not welcomed in this forum but instead you thread made a lot of pros and cons,
to be honest from what view you can speculate that thing ?
'Bitcoin will crash below $3000',
and right now look at your speculation about Bitcoin will crash after it hit $7500 ?
we can speculate,but try to add some proof behind it and logical explanation.
all that we can see it's more like fud,and because of that we can see a lot of cons and pros with your statement.
before blaming someone,it would be best for you to look yourself in the mirror.

mods job only one which is to prevent people from fight each other,
and causing a lot of baseles statement which will lead an insult to each other later on.

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November 18, 2017, 04:00:20 AM
 #57

I think I am not welcomed in this forum.

I think you are correct.   Cheesy
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November 18, 2017, 04:09:17 AM
 #58

Currently you can see btc price is increasing  and now 1 Bitcoin equals upto 7.9k US Dollar.  Bitcoin price is now increasing  so fast that i think it will be 2x of its price within the middle of next year

Bitcoin is back down to about $7700. It looks to me like it has made a double top and will head down to about $6000.

How come it will came back to 6000$ do you see any deep correction happening? Or any bad hypes that can make bitcoins price falls? Since I think that prediction is little bit low for now and the way I see the 7300$ is the lowest price would ever came for bitcoins right now and maybe we can see the BTC touch down for another 8000$ level and maybe for even more.

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November 18, 2017, 09:18:03 AM
 #59

There is absolutely no good investing if you are not going to cash out, i agree with you on that. However i think that bitcoin has not even achieved 1/10th of its potential, in my opinion. And to dump now when the price isn't even in 5 figures would just be a dumb move.

I don't care what you are for, whether you think bitcoin is a bubble or whatever, bitcoin is going to hit $10k this year or the next.

$7500 has shown not to be the peak, and even though there has been a small correction caused by BCH's rise in value, BTC will go up soon to break $8k, 9k, then 10k.

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November 18, 2017, 09:52:26 AM
 #60

Currently you can see btc price is increasing  and now 1 Bitcoin equals upto 7.9k US Dollar.  Bitcoin price is now increasing  so fast that i think it will be 2x of its price within the middle of next year

Bitcoin is back down to about $7700. It looks to me like it has made a double top and will head down to about $6000.

I think we will just go sideways here for a while. $7500-$8000 before making another breakout.
Look at the weekly chart! What a crazy bullish engulfing. Probably this is one of the biggest weekly green candles we have ever had in Bitcoin's history!
And look what happened in the past when we had a weekly bullish engulfing! Still some upside before making some bigger correction, it looks like.

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November 18, 2017, 10:28:58 AM
 #61

look at that from the bright side unique chance for buying bitcoins with 20-30% discount cause price will get back to 7000 mark before new year.

People here are always too late. They likely bought their coins very close to the peak levels, and for that reason aren't in a position to see it as an opportunity. If we look at the charts, there is a similar pattern visible, hinting at a correction somewhere close to the +$7000 levels we visited before the market went down. It doesn't require any actual market understanding to spot that pattern, but just common sense. At worst we'll be testing the $5000 level in the very short term, but I don't expect the market to fall that much down. My guess is a dip just under the $6000 level ($5800-$5900) where after that we will see the market go back up again.

You are right. The dip happened in the $5500 range. I think after the Bitcoin future is listed in CME, the price could be $10000 or even higher.
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November 18, 2017, 11:15:31 AM
 #62

Bitcoin can still go up. We might be seeing fluctations due to segwit2x cancellation, but for me it can never be the reason for bitcoin to crash.

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November 18, 2017, 08:20:29 PM
 #63

Bitcoin still can go up from this point or even it's possible to double in term of value,
many people still do not know about Bitcoin and lately some countries trying to get involved.
for example japanese,
they're regulating their exchanger and slowly monitoring the movement,
which mean slowly but sure Bitcoin get recognized by goverment and peoples.
so the its true value far from right now,
i believe it will be huge in upcoming days

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November 18, 2017, 09:21:25 PM
 #64

Bitcoin short-term profit making, lol. if this is the crash I wonder what is the real peak? exchanges are getting regulated, making any profit by day trading is not easy as it was before, they are either blocking your access or ask you for documents. profit is for exchanges not for people.

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November 18, 2017, 10:03:01 PM
 #65

Maybe you have your own differences with bitcoin going up above $8k, but bitcoin doesn't seem bothered, the price of bitcoin is going high and reaching to $8k+ by the end of the month cause $7.5k has been surpassed.

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November 18, 2017, 11:45:10 PM
 #66

Bitcoin can still go up. We might be seeing fluctations due to segwit2x cancellation, but for me it can never be the reason for bitcoin to crash.
Bitcoin still has too much potential and it can still go more and more high. I do not think that bitcoin is going to crash. Although its price can take a little correction but we cannot call it as crash, because now people are giving good support to bitcoin and they are not letting bitcoin price to drop. In future we can still expect more support from the investors therefore i am sure that bitcoin price will still continue to increase more and more.

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Gotottack
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November 19, 2017, 03:21:54 AM
 #67

Bitcoin Price - all years
https://www.coindesk.com/price/

Many people here have a wrong concept about long term investment, that it only mean to  buy-and-hold - holding no matter what. The term investment itself implies a wise decision. The first cardinal principle of investment is:
   
Invest for profit.

I do not know how to comment on "investors" who do not care much about profit.

   Short-term Trading:
There are indeed short and long term investment. Short term investment is speculation in very volatile markets -  to make profits by buy-low and sell-high in a time span of a day or even just hours. The greater the volatility, the better it is for the such traders. But such short term trading is only for the very sharp traders - it is a zero sum game (with crypto, it should be done by bots - program trading). Short term traders do not take the risk of holding bitcoin balances; they only ride a rising market as in the past months. Thus short term trading may only be profitable in a rising market, never in a falling bear market.

   Long-term Investment:
Long term investment means to buy a commodity that holds value in the future. A proper investment implies knowing when to buy and when not to buy. Just because we "buy-and-hold" does not mean that, whenever we have some spare funds to invest, we immediately enter the market. Entering the market to buy with no timing consideration is no investment. We only invest to maximize profit and this may only be achieved when we have good timing. The second principle in investment:
   
Timing is important in successful investing.
.   
The need for timing applies even for long term investment.

Let's assume we agree that bitcoin is a good long term investment - it's value in the long term will always rise. But don't forget that nearly all commodities rise in the long term. Even prices of coal, corn and pork belly would rise in the long term because of the nature our fiat system. So, even buying bitcoin still is very dependent of timing if you "care" to make profits.

Many here think that, because bitcoin will surely have an increased value in the long term, any moment is a correct moment to buy. It is not! What if the current price of $7000  is the peak and it  crashed to a low of a $1000 in 2020. It recovers to $7000 in 2025. You'll be in the red for 8 years! That's not good long term investment! Ok, it is only a "what if".

So for these so-called long term "buy-and-hold" bitcoin purists, the question now is :
   
Is this the time to buy?
Go to the link above and see the chart for the bitcoin price for all years. You must know how to zoom in at the frame around 2014 covering the rise and crash about Dec 2013 (Mt. Gox period). The market rose from $120 to $900 and crashed back to ±$230 about 2015. Only when you zoomed in will you see the similarity between that rally and this - they are similar (only visually evident when you zoomed in because of scale difference).

This current rally is the same as the one in 2013, the only difference is the scale:
   
The current rally is an exponential rise.
All financial markets that rise exponentially will crash - even for the best of investment medium. It is almost a law of nature, just like the law of large numbers and the return to the norm.
   
This Bitcoin price of $7000 is the peak and it must crash.
   

A third cardinal principle of investment:
      
Good timing requires patience and the ability to wait for the right moment.
      
So even for long term investors, this is not the time to buy.
   
Wait!


Bitcoin will crash and the peak is ONLY a good $7,500? Sure NO! As you may have read by now, Bitcoin already reached as high as $7,900 +++. What then can you say about that price? You can only predict so much but you cannot limit what Bitcoin's price will be in the long run. I have always believed it will increase more than its initial price offering. Perhaps that belief of mine turned into a reality. Create your own belief, and watch it take place. The only limit is the limit you set yourself.

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CohY4ohvoh
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November 21, 2017, 09:33:37 AM
 #68

No one can make point and say this is Peak point and price must down . it is only simple demand and supply and till now bitcoin have high demand that mean price will keep increase
audaciousbeing
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November 21, 2017, 11:00:41 AM
 #69

Ever since the break of this thread, I have been waiting to see him to be correct of the $7500 which was set as the peak in the Op but unfortunately, its either price refuses to give up or the 'whales' decides to keep pumping irrespective of what Op has predicted. When it comes to wishful thinking, even though that is not backed by objective evidence, there is always a push in that direction based on what people feels.

When companies are launching their Initial Public Offering, they engage on series of advertisements, road shows, gatherings, cocktails in other to get people who matter in the society or the business world to give a say in their stock price. With all these going, despite its a mere expression of opinion, there is always a feel on how people and market will react to such stock. The same thing applies to bitcoin when the price will fall, the panic is always abound and the price will continue to fall but the moment the market attitude changes, thing begins to look better and that is what is happening to bitcoin and not mere wishful thinking.

Coffee135
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November 21, 2017, 06:28:25 PM
 #70

Bitcoin Price - all years
https://www.coindesk.com/price/

Many people here have a wrong concept about long term investment, that it only mean to  buy-and-hold - holding no matter what. The term investment itself implies a wise decision. The first cardinal principle of investment is:
   
Invest for profit.

I do not know how to comment on "investors" who do not care much about profit.

   Short-term Trading:
There are indeed short and long term investment. Short term investment is speculation in very volatile markets -  to make profits by buy-low and sell-high in a time span of a day or even just hours. The greater the volatility, the better it is for the such traders. But such short term trading is only for the very sharp traders - it is a zero sum game (with crypto, it should be done by bots - program trading). Short term traders do not take the risk of holding bitcoin balances; they only ride a rising market as in the past months. Thus short term trading may only be profitable in a rising market, never in a falling bear market.

   Long-term Investment:
Long term investment means to buy a commodity that holds value in the future. A proper investment implies knowing when to buy and when not to buy. Just because we "buy-and-hold" does not mean that, whenever we have some spare funds to invest, we immediately enter the market. Entering the market to buy with no timing consideration is no investment. We only invest to maximize profit and this may only be achieved when we have good timing. The second principle in investment:
   
Timing is important in successful investing.
.   
The need for timing applies even for long term investment.

Let's assume we agree that bitcoin is a good long term investment - it's value in the long term will always rise. But don't forget that nearly all commodities rise in the long term. Even prices of coal, corn and pork belly would rise in the long term because of the nature our fiat system. So, even buying bitcoin still is very dependent of timing if you "care" to make profits.

Many here think that, because bitcoin will surely have an increased value in the long term, any moment is a correct moment to buy. It is not! What if the current price of $7000  is the peak and it  crashed to a low of a $1000 in 2020. It recovers to $7000 in 2025. You'll be in the red for 8 years! That's not good long term investment! Ok, it is only a "what if".

So for these so-called long term "buy-and-hold" bitcoin purists, the question now is :
   
Is this the time to buy?
Go to the link above and see the chart for the bitcoin price for all years. You must know how to zoom in at the frame around 2014 covering the rise and crash about Dec 2013 (Mt. Gox period). The market rose from $120 to $900 and crashed back to ±$230 about 2015. Only when you zoomed in will you see the similarity between that rally and this - they are similar (only visually evident when you zoomed in because of scale difference).

This current rally is the same as the one in 2013, the only difference is the scale:
   
The current rally is an exponential rise.
All financial markets that rise exponentially will crash - even for the best of investment medium. It is almost a law of nature, just like the law of large numbers and the return to the norm.
   
This Bitcoin price of $7000 is the peak and it must crash.
   

A third cardinal principle of investment:
      
Good timing requires patience and the ability to wait for the right moment.
      
So even for long term investors, this is not the time to buy.
   
Wait!


Bitcoin will crash and the peak is ONLY a good $7,500? Sure NO! As you may have read by now, Bitcoin already reached as high as $7,900 +++. What then can you say about that price? You can only predict so much but you cannot limit what Bitcoin's price will be in the long run. I have always believed it will increase more than its initial price offering. Perhaps that belief of mine turned into a reality. Create your own belief, and watch it take place. The only limit is the limit you set yourself.
It seems to me that a lot of people have turned bitcoin into the faith. They pray on the call bitcoin price forecast bitcoin in a totally inadequate scale. I think this is a mistake. Bitcoin is a tool for acquiring freedom and the ability to build a new economy. But in any economy the money needs to turn around. If you keep your coins any economy will stop. We handle all of the bitcoin bubble.

chip1994
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November 22, 2017, 11:56:31 AM
 #71

Bitcoin Price - all years
https://www.coindesk.com/price/

Many people here have a wrong concept about long term investment, that it only mean to  buy-and-hold - holding no matter what. The term investment itself implies a wise decision. The first cardinal principle of investment is:
   
Invest for profit.

I do not know how to comment on "investors" who do not care much about profit.

   Short-term Trading:
There are indeed short and long term investment. Short term investment is speculation in very volatile markets -  to make profits by buy-low and sell-high in a time span of a day or even just hours. The greater the volatility, the better it is for the such traders. But such short term trading is only for the very sharp traders - it is a zero sum game (with crypto, it should be done by bots - program trading). Short term traders do not take the risk of holding bitcoin balances; they only ride a rising market as in the past months. Thus short term trading may only be profitable in a rising market, never in a falling bear market.

   Long-term Investment:
Long term investment means to buy a commodity that holds value in the future. A proper investment implies knowing when to buy and when not to buy. Just because we "buy-and-hold" does not mean that, whenever we have some spare funds to invest, we immediately enter the market. Entering the market to buy with no timing consideration is no investment. We only invest to maximize profit and this may only be achieved when we have good timing. The second principle in investment:
   
Timing is important in successful investing.
.   
The need for timing applies even for long term investment.

Let's assume we agree that bitcoin is a good long term investment - it's value in the long term will always rise. But don't forget that nearly all commodities rise in the long term. Even prices of coal, corn and pork belly would rise in the long term because of the nature our fiat system. So, even buying bitcoin still is very dependent of timing if you "care" to make profits.

Many here think that, because bitcoin will surely have an increased value in the long term, any moment is a correct moment to buy. It is not! What if the current price of $7000  is the peak and it  crashed to a low of a $1000 in 2020. It recovers to $7000 in 2025. You'll be in the red for 8 years! That's not good long term investment! Ok, it is only a "what if".

So for these so-called long term "buy-and-hold" bitcoin purists, the question now is :
   
Is this the time to buy?
Go to the link above and see the chart for the bitcoin price for all years. You must know how to zoom in at the frame around 2014 covering the rise and crash about Dec 2013 (Mt. Gox period). The market rose from $120 to $900 and crashed back to ±$230 about 2015. Only when you zoomed in will you see the similarity between that rally and this - they are similar (only visually evident when you zoomed in because of scale difference).

This current rally is the same as the one in 2013, the only difference is the scale:
   
The current rally is an exponential rise.
All financial markets that rise exponentially will crash - even for the best of investment medium. It is almost a law of nature, just like the law of large numbers and the return to the norm.
   
This Bitcoin price of $7000 is the peak and it must crash.
   

A third cardinal principle of investment:
      
Good timing requires patience and the ability to wait for the right moment.
      
So even for long term investors, this is not the time to buy.
   
Wait!


Bitcoin will crash and the peak is ONLY a good $7,500? Sure NO! As you may have read by now, Bitcoin already reached as high as $7,900 +++. What then can you say about that price? You can only predict so much but you cannot limit what Bitcoin's price will be in the long run. I have always believed it will increase more than its initial price offering. Perhaps that belief of mine turned into a reality. Create your own belief, and watch it take place. The only limit is the limit you set yourself.
Bitcoin has jumped to $8,000 recently and there are a lot of traders still believe the price of Bitcoin can increases more. Those people don't think the price of Bitcoin will stop at this price, they predict the price of Bitcoin can reaches at $10,000 and $100,000 in next few years.

buysellcoins
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November 23, 2017, 10:18:45 PM
 #72

Bitcoin Price - all years
https://www.coindesk.com/price/

Many people here have a wrong concept about long term investment, that it only mean to  buy-and-hold - holding no matter what. The term investment itself implies a wise decision. The first cardinal principle of investment is:
   
Invest for profit.

I do not know how to comment on "investors" who do not care much about profit.

   Short-term Trading:
There are indeed short and long term investment. Short term investment is speculation in very volatile markets -  to make profits by buy-low and sell-high in a time span of a day or even just hours. The greater the volatility, the better it is for the such traders. But such short term trading is only for the very sharp traders - it is a zero sum game (with crypto, it should be done by bots - program trading). Short term traders do not take the risk of holding bitcoin balances; they only ride a rising market as in the past months. Thus short term trading may only be profitable in a rising market, never in a falling bear market.

   Long-term Investment:
Long term investment means to buy a commodity that holds value in the future. A proper investment implies knowing when to buy and when not to buy. Just because we "buy-and-hold" does not mean that, whenever we have some spare funds to invest, we immediately enter the market. Entering the market to buy with no timing consideration is no investment. We only invest to maximize profit and this may only be achieved when we have good timing. The second principle in investment:
   
Timing is important in successful investing.
.   
The need for timing applies even for long term investment.

Let's assume we agree that bitcoin is a good long term investment - it's value in the long term will always rise. But don't forget that nearly all commodities rise in the long term. Even prices of coal, corn and pork belly would rise in the long term because of the nature our fiat system. So, even buying bitcoin still is very dependent of timing if you "care" to make profits.

Many here think that, because bitcoin will surely have an increased value in the long term, any moment is a correct moment to buy. It is not! What if the current price of $7000  is the peak and it  crashed to a low of a $1000 in 2020. It recovers to $7000 in 2025. You'll be in the red for 8 years! That's not good long term investment! Ok, it is only a "what if".

So for these so-called long term "buy-and-hold" bitcoin purists, the question now is :
   
Is this the time to buy?
Go to the link above and see the chart for the bitcoin price for all years. You must know how to zoom in at the frame around 2014 covering the rise and crash about Dec 2013 (Mt. Gox period). The market rose from $120 to $900 and crashed back to ±$230 about 2015. Only when you zoomed in will you see the similarity between that rally and this - they are similar (only visually evident when you zoomed in because of scale difference).

This current rally is the same as the one in 2013, the only difference is the scale:
   
The current rally is an exponential rise.
All financial markets that rise exponentially will crash - even for the best of investment medium. It is almost a law of nature, just like the law of large numbers and the return to the norm.
   
This Bitcoin price of $7000 is the peak and it must crash.
   

A third cardinal principle of investment:
      
Good timing requires patience and the ability to wait for the right moment.
      
So even for long term investors, this is not the time to buy.
   
Wait!


Bitcoin will crash and the peak is ONLY a good $7,500? Sure NO! As you may have read by now, Bitcoin already reached as high as $7,900 +++. What then can you say about that price? You can only predict so much but you cannot limit what Bitcoin's price will be in the long run. I have always believed it will increase more than its initial price offering. Perhaps that belief of mine turned into a reality. Create your own belief, and watch it take place. The only limit is the limit you set yourself.
Bitcoin has jumped to $8,000 recently and there are a lot of traders still believe the price of Bitcoin can increases more. Those people don't think the price of Bitcoin will stop at this price, they predict the price of Bitcoin can reaches at $10,000 and $100,000 in next few years.



$10,000 seems possible maybe next year 2018 between jan or feb but $100,000 is not a reality Smiley  Those analyst that are predicting the $100,000 is pretending to be know it all kind of person but let see if bitcoin crashes back to let say $5000 or $1000 they will just keep quiet hahaha
shivansps
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November 23, 2017, 10:33:52 PM
 #73

I absolutly agree with the assumption that bitcoin can go to $10k early next year

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Freegan
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November 23, 2017, 10:52:46 PM
 #74

   
This Bitcoin price of $7000 is the peak and it must crash.
   

A third cardinal principle of investment:
      
Good timing requires patience and the ability to wait for the right moment.
      
So even for long term investors, this is not the time to buy.
   
Wait!

Unfortunately, there are still many people who believe in this kind of "expert advice" and get carried away by ignorance and supposed "common sense". Remember that the bitcoin market is very new compared to the veteran stock, metals or commodities market, so analysts always fail when trying to analyze the future behavior of bitcoin in terms of the old school of technical and fundamental analysis.

But those who let themselves be guided, surely will be regretting their bad decision.

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November 23, 2017, 11:07:06 PM
 #75

No one can make point and say this is Peak point and price must down . it is only simple demand and supply and till now bitcoin have high demand that mean price will keep increase
Yeah bitcoin wil grow and grow no one can stop it unless they collaborate theur funds to take down bitcoin. Although they cannot make aasumptions to what bitcoin will be though i guess bitcoin will not reach near $10000 this year because bitcoin will possibly go lower value cause of christmass many will sell bitcoin and bitcoin will probably go down again.

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Today at 04:01:00 AM
 #76

Maybe you have your own differences with bitcoin going up above $8k, but bitcoin doesn't seem bothered, the price of bitcoin is going high and reaching to $8k+ by the end of the month cause $7.5k has been surpassed.
Since bitcoin price at below $10 , $100 , $1,000 people says same thing about how bitcoin price should get dropped.
But the reality says different , it keeps growing uncontrolled until today there is no other strong reason why the market must crash.
We are on superb confidence , heading to the next level market price.

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