BiblePay | 10% to Orphan-Charity | RANDOMX MINING | Sanctuaries (Masternodes)

[znffal]

I have submitted an application for Biblepay to be listed on https://www.tradeogre.com tradeogre.com exchange.

Here are the top 5 coins in volume on tradeogre.com and as examples of what healthy markets and what healthy demand looks like:

|	Currency Name	|	$ on Bid in BTC	|	$ on Bid USD	|	CrCu on Ask	|	$ on Ask USD	|	%Diff
|	Haven	|	15	|	$138,000	|	81,786	|	$245,358	|	1.78
|	IPBC	|	6.6	|	$60,720	|	285,052	|	$94067	|	1.55
|	Masari	|	6.18	|	$56,856	|	43,049	|	$53,811	|	.95
|	Dero	|	2.75	|	$23,300	|	10,513	|	$31,539	|	1.25
|	Stellite	|	6.41	|	$58,972	|	202,134,200	|	$242,561	|	4.11
|		|		|		|	BTC on Ask	|		|
|	Biblepay	|	1.05	|	$9,660	|	103.26	|	$949,992	|	98.34

You can see the top 5 are all fairly balanced on the bid and ask, however Biblepay has nearly 100x the value on the Ask as the Bid; which is pretty unbalanced.  We need to work on demand for Biblepay.

I feel like this is quite misleading because of those ~100 BTC on the sell side, 90 are a single order at 0.001 BTC

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[aikida3k]

Here is a list of twitter "Bitcoin OGs" ,these are the people that when they tweet your coin, they can move markets:


@notsofast
@dum
@growdigi
@woonomic
@needacoin
@mansa_godson
@crypt0biwan
@cryptomocho
@marsmensch
@whalepanda
@thisisnuse
@moonoverlord
@dennahz
@coin_shark
@coinyeezy
@socal_crypto
@bitcoin_dad
@cryptobanger
@crazy_crypto
@anambroid
@crypto_god
@secretsofcrypto
@cryptostardust

Look at their names and look at their posts.  How interested do you think they would be in a Christian based Charity coin?  This is the way most people in crypto think and these guys are constantly gaining followers.  This is why, from the beginning, since I have found this coin, I have thought that this coin will need to find people through churches and take people in churches to teach them the ins of crypto in order to become a great success.  This coin attracts miners; it is a profitable CPU coin to mine, but to be a big success, in order to get the 10x or more that Jaavgpk talks about, we need more demand.

[aikida3k]

I have submitted an application for Biblepay to be listed on https://www.tradeogre.com tradeogre.com exchange.

Here are the top 5 coins in volume on tradeogre.com and as examples of what healthy markets and what healthy demand looks like:

|	Currency Name	|	$ on Bid in BTC	|	$ on Bid USD	|	CrCu on Ask	|	$ on Ask USD	|	%Diff
|	Haven	|	15	|	$138,000	|	81,786	|	$245,358	|	1.78
|	IPBC	|	6.6	|	$60,720	|	285,052	|	$94067	|	1.55
|	Masari	|	6.18	|	$56,856	|	43,049	|	$53,811	|	.95
|	Dero	|	2.75	|	$23,300	|	10,513	|	$31,539	|	1.25
|	Stellite	|	6.41	|	$58,972	|	202,134,200	|	$242,561	|	4.11
|		|		|		|	BTC on Ask	|		|
|	Biblepay	|	1.05	|	$9,660	|	103.26	|	$949,992	|	98.34

You can see the top 5 are all fairly balanced on the bid and ask, however Biblepay has nearly 100x the value on the Ask as the Bid; which is pretty unbalanced.  We need to work on demand for Biblepay.

I feel like this is quite misleading because of those ~100 BTC on the sell side, 90 are a single order at 0.001 BTC

Take those out and it's still 13:1 ask:bid.  1 BTC on the bid total is pretty anemic.

EDIT: And the larger exchanges are going to look at our current volume to decide if they want to add us.  It's about money for them.  What is the cost to add and maintain a coin versus the amount of revenue gained from trading activity of that coin?  For Biblepay, we do not currently add enough trading volume to warrant being added to larger exchanges. We need buyer demand.  We need churches to help.

[znffal]

I have submitted an application for Biblepay to be listed on https://www.tradeogre.com tradeogre.com exchange.

Here are the top 5 coins in volume on tradeogre.com and as examples of what healthy markets and what healthy demand looks like:

|	Currency Name	|	$ on Bid in BTC	|	$ on Bid USD	|	CrCu on Ask	|	$ on Ask USD	|	%Diff
|	Haven	|	15	|	$138,000	|	81,786	|	$245,358	|	1.78
|	IPBC	|	6.6	|	$60,720	|	285,052	|	$94067	|	1.55
|	Masari	|	6.18	|	$56,856	|	43,049	|	$53,811	|	.95
|	Dero	|	2.75	|	$23,300	|	10,513	|	$31,539	|	1.25
|	Stellite	|	6.41	|	$58,972	|	202,134,200	|	$242,561	|	4.11
|		|		|		|	BTC on Ask	|		|
|	Biblepay	|	1.05	|	$9,660	|	103.26	|	$949,992	|	98.34

You can see the top 5 are all fairly balanced on the bid and ask, however Biblepay has nearly 100x the value on the Ask as the Bid; which is pretty unbalanced.  We need to work on demand for Biblepay.

I feel like this is quite misleading because of those ~100 BTC on the sell side, 90 are a single order at 0.001 BTC

Take those out and it's still 13:1 ask:bid.  1 BTC on the bid total is pretty anemic.

For sure, but not quite as bad as ~90
Hey by the way, the table % difference should be labeled "ratio" or something like that because it isn't a %.

So I just wanted to say that it sounds like you have some great ideas and that you should consider putting in a proposal into the PR section of the monthly budget.

[aikida3k]

You're right, znffal, I went ahead and changed the original post. 

So I just wanted to say that it sounds like you have some great ideas and that you should consider putting in a proposal into the PR section of the monthly budget.

Thanks for the encouragement!  I'm looking for someone to work with right now; I don't want to say I'll do it, take the BBP for the proposal and not have a deliverable for a long time.  The one idea is combining the bbp faucet with paper wallet generator, and I'm not yet sure how to integrate those two in order to generate say 1,000 unique bbp paper wallet addresses and have the faucet deposit 5 bbp in each address with instructions of how to find Biblepay online, and what our purpose is.  As an aside, I'm restudying C++ that I took in college to brush up and to at least be able to understand and audit some of the code better.  Not much of anything more ambitious but perhaps eventually I could work on the paper wallet faucet if no one else steps up. Thanks again.

[jaapgvk]

58 Million Biblepay coins tied up in mining, just by the top 3 Biblepay whales!

BBP
Onii-Chan
Mike

I never expected Onii to drop to #2 to be overtaken by a bigger whale...

Its even more fascinating that User #1 is at 90% UTXO because his RAC is rising faster than his 26.4 Million stake requirement.

Wow! That's crazy to see. If I look at the superblock view, there's something like 160M in PODC staking total. and then there are around 189 masternodes configured, so let's call that another 292M in masternode staking.

That makes 160+292 = 452M total reserved for staking, out of a total supply of 600M. >75% of our total supply is reserved.

Does that seem high to anyone? I don't know that it is a PROBLEM or anything, but it seems like a big percentage to me.

I do agree that something needs to change here, I'm trying to get my Biblepay mining working correctly and just with my main desktop and a small older HP workstation server, my RAC is so high (11K), I would need over 300K coins to get the full rewards, which right now, costs about $1000usd. I understand trying to eliminate the botnet, etc., but this seems a little over the top. You basically have to have a mini-masternode just to be able to mine the coin.

I agree also partially.

Btw nice term mini-masternode

I also agree that it's probably too high for some with the current BBP prices. As far as I'm concerned staking is for battling botnets, but it should not be so high that it discourages some/most new users to mine. Staking BBP/MAG could maybe be better in this regard.

But I guess that nothing is stopping us from changing the staking requirements with every mandatory update, right?

user adoption is essential for a coin to survive, and many people are here to mine.

Or course, there is always unbanked mining if you don't want to or can't stake. And there are ways to earn BBP in other ways, like writing letters to orphans, and creating proposals if you think you can contribute to BiblePay.

I mean, if BBP goes 10x, we will definitely need to change the staking requirements, or else no-one is going to start mining with such high entry costs, and that will shift power to the people already mining now.

Also, for a good 'spread of the wealth', it's probably best to have high early user adoption.

Jaapgvk, I'm not meaning to come off as harsh, you're a super nice and super generous guy.
Right now it's a pretty good joke 'if Biblepay goes 10x'.  Have you seen the 2.6 million (now 2.4 million) BBP on the ask at c-cex that has been sitting at 37 sat for at least 48 hours now?  This coin needs staking to survive meeting its obligations to the orphans.  There needs to be some way to increase demand before you talk about lowering staking requirements.  How about getting over 1 BTC total on the bid?  Other exchanges are looking at that in regards as to whether they will add BBP.  To put it bluntly, this coin needs to be shilled, but no one want to do the shilling.

I don't see why not, as it's doing great things in the world and there is all kind of evidence for that.

Where would demand come from if there are no new users coming because the cost of entry is just too high? I want people all over the world to be able to mine this coin with just the PC that they have at home. I'm not talking solely about western countries, but also the less fortunate countries in terms of people's income.I think that's a large part of our potential userbase, including people that are just starting out in crypto and want to use their home-PC to earn some. When that person needs to invest $1000+ just to start mining, that person is probably NEVER going to do that, because most people in this world don't really have those kind of savings.

I liked Rob's idea of giving people a 'starting capital' though. If new users have a CPID + a certain amount of RAC (+I thought that Rob had some other requirements in order to be given the capital), they can go to a faucet that gives them an x-amount (1000s?) of BBP, so they can start earning rewards right away.

I would like to see that implemented.

Oh, and regarding shilling: I'm building a bounty page for our new website right now, and I have  a topic in the proposal section of our forum to have an airdrop https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=120.0
I also talk about a signature campaign in there. And I like your paper wallet suggestion. These are all ways to give BiblePay more exposure.

I'm very aware that this coin needs more exposure, but I don't think that it needs a fixed 20BBP/RAC staking requirement in order to grow. It could very well become a reason why the coin can fail. As far as I'm concerned, it's a way to fight botnets, but it shouldn't prevent people from joining us because they just can't afford it.

[thesnat21]

I'm very aware that this coin needs more exposure, but I don't think that it needs a fixed 20BBP/RAC staking requirement in order to grow. It could very well become a reason why the coin can fail. As far as I'm concerned, it's a way to fight botnets, but it shouldn't prevent people from joining us because they just can't afford it.

I agree completely.

The minimum required stake hurts things as well.   There are a few whales owning the heat mining,  probably the same owning PODC

[znffal]

New issue I see only today: TaskWeight and UTXOWeight are zero.
Wallet version: 1.1.2.4

Code:

# ./biblepay-cli getwalletinfo
{
  "walletversion": 61000,
  "balance": 637729.34080820,
  "retirement_account_balance": 0,
  "unconfirmed_balance": 0.00000000,
  "immature_balance": 0.00000000,
  "txcount": 111,
  "keypoololdest": 1523553787,
  "keypoolsize": 1001,
  "keys_left": 1002,
  "unlocked_until": 0,
  "paytxfee": 0.00000000
}

Code:

# ./biblepay-cli exec totalrac
{
  "Command": "totalrac",
  "Total RAC": 26849.98,
  "UTXO Target": 590699.5600000001
}

Code:

# ./biblepay-cli exec podcupdate true
{
  "Command": "podcupdate",
  "PODCUpdate": "Processed 0 tasks for CPID 02b8ebdf635b70b734e1c50239ee8dfe"
}

Code:

# ./biblepay-cli exec getboincinfo
{
  "Command": "getboincinfo",
  "CPID": "02b8ebdf635b70b734e1c50239ee8dfe",
  "Address": "BE7MctaogWZgqJ1nhTaDrwLX1kdQMAPyYU",
  "CPIDS": "02b8ebdf635b70b734e1c50239ee8dfe;",
  "CPID-Age (hours)": 423659,
  "NextSuperblockHeight": 44075,
  "NextSuperblockBudget": 1161612,
  "02b8ebdf635b70b734e1c50239ee8dfe_ADDRESS": "BE7MctaogWZgqJ1nhTaDrwLX1kdQMAPyYU",
  "02b8ebdf635b70b734e1c50239ee8dfe_RAC": 5433.98,
  "02b8ebdf635b70b734e1c50239ee8dfe_TEAM": 15044,
  "02b8ebdf635b70b734e1c50239ee8dfe_WCGRAC": 21416,
  "02b8ebdf635b70b734e1c50239ee8dfe_TaskWeight": 0,
  "02b8ebdf635b70b734e1c50239ee8dfe_UTXOWeight": 0,
  "Total_RAC": 26849.98,
  "Total Payments (One Day)": 0,
  "Total Payments (One Week)": 18118,
  "Total Budget (One Day)": 1161612,
  "Total Budget (One Week)": 22380050,
  "Superblock Count (One Week)": 8,
  "Superblock Hit Count (One Week)": 8,
  "Superblock List": "43870,43665,43460,43255,43050,42845,42640,42435",
  "Last Superblock Height": 43870,
  "Last Superblock Budget": 1161612,
  "Last Superblock Payment": 0,
  "Magnitude (One-Day)": 0,
  "Magnitude (One-Week)": 0.8095603003567909
}

Code:

#  cat /root/.biblepaycore/biblepay.conf
addnode=node.biblepay.org
gen=1
genproclimit=1
pool=https://pool.purepool.org
workerid=BE7MctaogWZgqJ1nhTaDrwLX1kdQMAPyYU

On Rosetta it looks like you have not solved any tasks
https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/hosts_user.php?userid=1994355

Check your computers on there, for example
https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/results.php?hostid=3384144

Have these computers been turned on?
Have you been solving task to WCG?

[coinsinspect]

Have these computers been turned on?
Have you been solving task to WCG?

Thanks.

Indeed I see now they are down.
Do you think this has so drastic effect?

I've just started them again, when do you think the issue will be resolved ?

[noxpost]

Have these computers been turned on?
Have you been solving task to WCG?

Thanks.

Indeed I see now they are down.
Do you think this has so drastic effect?

I've just started them again, when do you think the issue will be resolved ?

Well the first step is to solve some tasks. You can see in the BOINC Manager how long it is predicted until you get some credit for solving tasks - but it isn't uncommon for a task in R@H to take 5-8 hours on computers like what are listed in your profile.

After that, when you can see a job completed, you can go into the BiblePay wallet and "exec podcupdate true" which should force a staking transaction, and make you eligible for the next round of payments.

[coinsinspect]

Well the first step is to solve some tasks. You can see in the BOINC Manager how long it is predicted until you get some credit for solving tasks - but it isn't uncommon for a task in R@H to take 5-8 hours on computers like what are listed in your profile.

After that, when you can see a job completed, you can go into the BiblePay wallet and "exec podcupdate true" which should force a staking transaction, and make you eligible for the next round of payments.

Thanks guys.

Great support! Great team!


EDIT: issue is fixed

[leetlezee]

I do agree that something needs to change here, I'm trying to get my Biblepay mining working correctly and just with my main desktop and a small older HP workstation server, my RAC is so high (11K), I would need over 300K coins to get the full rewards, which right now, costs about $1000usd. I understand trying to eliminate the botnet, etc., but this seems a little over the top. You basically have to have a mini-masternode just to be able to mine the coin.

I agree also partially.

Btw nice term mini-masternode

I also agree that it's probably too high for some with the current BBP prices. As far as I'm concerned staking is for battling botnets, but it should not be so high that it discourages some/most new users to mine. Staking BBP/MAG could maybe be better in this regard.

But I guess that nothing is stopping us from changing the staking requirements with every mandatory update, right?

user adoption is essential for a coin to survive, and many people are here to mine.

Or course, there is always unbanked mining if you don't want to or can't stake. And there are ways to earn BBP in other ways, like writing letters to orphans, and creating proposals if you think you can contribute to BiblePay.

I mean, if BBP goes 10x, we will definitely need to change the staking requirements, or else no-one is going to start mining with such high entry costs, and that will shift power to the people already mining now.

Also, for a good 'spread of the wealth', it's probably best to have high early user adoption.

Jaapgvk, I'm not meaning to come off as harsh, you're a super nice and super generous guy.
Right now it's a pretty good joke 'if Biblepay goes 10x'.  Have you seen the 2.6 million (now 2.4 million) BBP on the ask at c-cex that has been sitting at 37 sat for at least 48 hours now?  This coin needs staking to survive meeting its obligations to the orphans.  There needs to be some way to increase demand before you talk about lowering staking requirements.  How about getting over 1 BTC total on the bid?  Other exchanges are looking at that in regards as to whether they will add BBP.  To put it bluntly, this coin needs to be shilled, but no one want to do the shilling.

I don't see why not, as it's doing great things in the world and there is all kind of evidence for that.

Where would demand come from if there are no new users coming because the cost of entry is just too high? I want people all over the world to be able to mine this coin with just the PC that they have at home. I'm not talking solely about western countries, but also the less fortunate countries in terms of people's income.I think that's a large part of our potential userbase, including people that are just starting out in crypto and want to use their home-PC to earn some. When that person needs to invest $1000+ just to start mining, that person is probably NEVER going to do that, because most people in this world don't really have those kind of savings.

I liked Rob's idea of giving people a 'starting capital' though. If new users have a CPID + a certain amount of RAC (+I thought that Rob had some other requirements in order to be given the capital), they can go to a faucet that gives them an x-amount (1000s?) of BBP, so they can start earning rewards right away.

I would like to see that implemented.

Oh, and regarding shilling: I'm building a bounty page for our new website right now, and I have  a topic in the proposal section of our forum to have an airdrop https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=120.0
I also talk about a signature campaign in there. And I like your paper wallet suggestion. These are all ways to give BiblePay more exposure.

I'm very aware that this coin needs more exposure, but I don't think that it needs a fixed 20BBP/RAC staking requirement in order to grow. It could very well become a reason why the coin can fail. As far as I'm concerned, it's a way to fight botnets, but it shouldn't prevent people from joining us because they just can't afford it.

When I was thinking about the problem this morning, I thought a possible solution could include a tiered staking system. If the lower, "introductory" tiers has a very low or no staking requirement, but as you go up the tiers, the staking requirement increases quite a bit. So if you wanted to really ramp up the mining, you would need to stake a lot more coins to get the full reward.

[Brian879]

I do agree that something needs to change here, I'm trying to get my Biblepay mining working correctly and just with my main desktop and a small older HP workstation server, my RAC is so high (11K), I would need over 300K coins to get the full rewards, which right now, costs about $1000usd. I understand trying to eliminate the botnet, etc., but this seems a little over the top. You basically have to have a mini-masternode just to be able to mine the coin.

I agree also partially.

Btw nice term mini-masternode

I also agree that it's probably too high for some with the current BBP prices. As far as I'm concerned staking is for battling botnets, but it should not be so high that it discourages some/most new users to mine. Staking BBP/MAG could maybe be better in this regard.

But I guess that nothing is stopping us from changing the staking requirements with every mandatory update, right?

user adoption is essential for a coin to survive, and many people are here to mine.

Or course, there is always unbanked mining if you don't want to or can't stake. And there are ways to earn BBP in other ways, like writing letters to orphans, and creating proposals if you think you can contribute to BiblePay.

I mean, if BBP goes 10x, we will definitely need to change the staking requirements, or else no-one is going to start mining with such high entry costs, and that will shift power to the people already mining now.

Also, for a good 'spread of the wealth', it's probably best to have high early user adoption.

Jaapgvk, I'm not meaning to come off as harsh, you're a super nice and super generous guy.
Right now it's a pretty good joke 'if Biblepay goes 10x'.  Have you seen the 2.6 million (now 2.4 million) BBP on the ask at c-cex that has been sitting at 37 sat for at least 48 hours now?  This coin needs staking to survive meeting its obligations to the orphans.  There needs to be some way to increase demand before you talk about lowering staking requirements.  How about getting over 1 BTC total on the bid?  Other exchanges are looking at that in regards as to whether they will add BBP.  To put it bluntly, this coin needs to be shilled, but no one want to do the shilling.

I don't see why not, as it's doing great things in the world and there is all kind of evidence for that.

Where would demand come from if there are no new users coming because the cost of entry is just too high? I want people all over the world to be able to mine this coin with just the PC that they have at home. I'm not talking solely about western countries, but also the less fortunate countries in terms of people's income.I think that's a large part of our potential userbase, including people that are just starting out in crypto and want to use their home-PC to earn some. When that person needs to invest $1000+ just to start mining, that person is probably NEVER going to do that, because most people in this world don't really have those kind of savings.

I liked Rob's idea of giving people a 'starting capital' though. If new users have a CPID + a certain amount of RAC (+I thought that Rob had some other requirements in order to be given the capital), they can go to a faucet that gives them an x-amount (1000s?) of BBP, so they can start earning rewards right away.

I would like to see that implemented.

Oh, and regarding shilling: I'm building a bounty page for our new website right now, and I have  a topic in the proposal section of our forum to have an airdrop https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=120.0
I also talk about a signature campaign in there. And I like your paper wallet suggestion. These are all ways to give BiblePay more exposure.

I'm very aware that this coin needs more exposure, but I don't think that it needs a fixed 20BBP/RAC staking requirement in order to grow. It could very well become a reason why the coin can fail. As far as I'm concerned, it's a way to fight botnets, but it shouldn't prevent people from joining us because they just can't afford it.

When I was thinking about the problem this morning, I thought a possible solution could include a tiered staking system. If the lower, "introductory" tiers has a very low or no staking requirement, but as you go up the tiers, the staking requirement increases quite a bit. So if you wanted to really ramp up the mining, you would need to stake a lot more coins to get the full reward.

Big miners will just have multiple "small" accounts then instead of just having everything consolidated under 1 account.

[jaapgvk]

I do agree that something needs to change here, I'm trying to get my Biblepay mining working correctly and just with my main desktop and a small older HP workstation server, my RAC is so high (11K), I would need over 300K coins to get the full rewards, which right now, costs about $1000usd. I understand trying to eliminate the botnet, etc., but this seems a little over the top. You basically have to have a mini-masternode just to be able to mine the coin.

I agree also partially.

Btw nice term mini-masternode

I also agree that it's probably too high for some with the current BBP prices. As far as I'm concerned staking is for battling botnets, but it should not be so high that it discourages some/most new users to mine. Staking BBP/MAG could maybe be better in this regard.

But I guess that nothing is stopping us from changing the staking requirements with every mandatory update, right?

user adoption is essential for a coin to survive, and many people are here to mine.

Or course, there is always unbanked mining if you don't want to or can't stake. And there are ways to earn BBP in other ways, like writing letters to orphans, and creating proposals if you think you can contribute to BiblePay.

I mean, if BBP goes 10x, we will definitely need to change the staking requirements, or else no-one is going to start mining with such high entry costs, and that will shift power to the people already mining now.

Also, for a good 'spread of the wealth', it's probably best to have high early user adoption.

Jaapgvk, I'm not meaning to come off as harsh, you're a super nice and super generous guy.
Right now it's a pretty good joke 'if Biblepay goes 10x'.  Have you seen the 2.6 million (now 2.4 million) BBP on the ask at c-cex that has been sitting at 37 sat for at least 48 hours now?  This coin needs staking to survive meeting its obligations to the orphans.  There needs to be some way to increase demand before you talk about lowering staking requirements.  How about getting over 1 BTC total on the bid?  Other exchanges are looking at that in regards as to whether they will add BBP.  To put it bluntly, this coin needs to be shilled, but no one want to do the shilling.

I don't see why not, as it's doing great things in the world and there is all kind of evidence for that.

Where would demand come from if there are no new users coming because the cost of entry is just too high? I want people all over the world to be able to mine this coin with just the PC that they have at home. I'm not talking solely about western countries, but also the less fortunate countries in terms of people's income.I think that's a large part of our potential userbase, including people that are just starting out in crypto and want to use their home-PC to earn some. When that person needs to invest $1000+ just to start mining, that person is probably NEVER going to do that, because most people in this world don't really have those kind of savings.

I liked Rob's idea of giving people a 'starting capital' though. If new users have a CPID + a certain amount of RAC (+I thought that Rob had some other requirements in order to be given the capital), they can go to a faucet that gives them an x-amount (1000s?) of BBP, so they can start earning rewards right away.

I would like to see that implemented.

Oh, and regarding shilling: I'm building a bounty page for our new website right now, and I have  a topic in the proposal section of our forum to have an airdrop https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=120.0
I also talk about a signature campaign in there. And I like your paper wallet suggestion. These are all ways to give BiblePay more exposure.

I'm very aware that this coin needs more exposure, but I don't think that it needs a fixed 20BBP/RAC staking requirement in order to grow. It could very well become a reason why the coin can fail. As far as I'm concerned, it's a way to fight botnets, but it shouldn't prevent people from joining us because they just can't afford it.

When I was thinking about the problem this morning, I thought a possible solution could include a tiered staking system. If the lower, "introductory" tiers has a very low or no staking requirement, but as you go up the tiers, the staking requirement increases quite a bit. So if you wanted to really ramp up the mining, you would need to stake a lot more coins to get the full reward.

Big miners will just have multiple "small" accounts then instead of just having everything consolidated under 1 account.

Exactly. Sorry leetlezee, but this has been extensively discussed.

I have nothing against the system per se, I just think that it should be affordable by the vast majority of 'everyday users', now and in the future. It should be fair, although, what 'fair' means is something on which opinions will vary.

[leetlezee]

Username "senoa" on the pool.biblepay website is just copying/pasting orphan letters with minor tweaking. They copied one of pbrusky's letters and one of mine.

[compro01]

The potential use of Blockchain is unimaginable, it never seize to amaze us with newer purpose being discovered. I wasn't too amazed when I came across Biblepay I was actually expecting it.

[616westwarmoth]

I also agree that it's probably too high for some with the current BBP prices. As far as I'm concerned staking is for battling botnets, but it should not be so high that it discourages some/most new users to mine. Staking BBP/MAG could maybe be better in this regard.

But I guess that nothing is stopping us from changing the staking requirements with every mandatory update, right?

user adoption is essential for a coin to survive, and many people are here to mine.

Or course, there is always unbanked mining if you don't want to or can't stake. And there are ways to earn BBP in other ways, like writing letters to orphans, and creating proposals if you think you can contribute to BiblePay.

I mean, if BBP goes 10x, we will definitely need to change the staking requirements, or else no-one is going to start mining with such high entry costs, and that will shift power to the people already mining now.

Also, for a good 'spread of the wealth', it's probably best to have high early user adoption.

Jaapgvk, I'm not meaning to come off as harsh, you're a super nice and super generous guy.
Right now it's a pretty good joke 'if Biblepay goes 10x'.  Have you seen the 2.6 million (now 2.4 million) BBP on the ask at c-cex that has been sitting at 37 sat for at least 48 hours now?  This coin needs staking to survive meeting its obligations to the orphans.  There needs to be some way to increase demand before you talk about lowering staking requirements.  How about getting over 1 BTC total on the bid?  Other exchanges are looking at that in regards as to whether they will add BBP.  To put it bluntly, this coin needs to be shilled, but no one want to do the shilling.

I don't see why not, as it's doing great things in the world and there is all kind of evidence for that.

Where would demand come from if there are no new users coming because the cost of entry is just too high? I want people all over the world to be able to mine this coin with just the PC that they have at home. I'm not talking solely about western countries, but also the less fortunate countries in terms of people's income.I think that's a large part of our potential userbase, including people that are just starting out in crypto and want to use their home-PC to earn some. When that person needs to invest $1000+ just to start mining, that person is probably NEVER going to do that, because most people in this world don't really have those kind of savings.

I liked Rob's idea of giving people a 'starting capital' though. If new users have a CPID + a certain amount of RAC (+I thought that Rob had some other requirements in order to be given the capital), they can go to a faucet that gives them an x-amount (1000s?) of BBP, so they can start earning rewards right away.

I would like to see that implemented.

Oh, and regarding shilling: I'm building a bounty page for our new website right now, and I have  a topic in the proposal section of our forum to have an airdrop https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=120.0
I also talk about a signature campaign in there. And I like your paper wallet suggestion. These are all ways to give BiblePay more exposure.

I'm very aware that this coin needs more exposure, but I don't think that it needs a fixed 20BBP/RAC staking requirement in order to grow. It could very well become a reason why the coin can fail. As far as I'm concerned, it's a way to fight botnets, but it shouldn't prevent people from joining us because they just can't afford it.

When I was thinking about the problem this morning, I thought a possible solution could include a tiered staking system. If the lower, "introductory" tiers has a very low or no staking requirement, but as you go up the tiers, the staking requirement increases quite a bit. So if you wanted to really ramp up the mining, you would need to stake a lot more coins to get the full reward.

Big miners will just have multiple "small" accounts then instead of just having everything consolidated under 1 account.

Exactly. Sorry leetlezee, but this has been extensively discussed.

I have nothing against the system per se, I just think that it should be affordable by the vast majority of 'everyday users', now and in the future. It should be fair, although, what 'fair' means is something on which opinions will vary.

If the price of the coin rises, the value of the rewards for the most part will rise in stop.  At some point we'll hit a balanced RAC/price level (I'm guessing at a ratio of between 20M-30M RAC/1 cent BBP).  I could be dramatically off on this estimate so take it as an example (even though I have reasons too lengthy to discuss why I believe that number is valid).  At some point, the movement of new RAC should roughly follow the price.  So using the above numbers, right now we're at 9M RAC give or take and trending via daily work to a 10M target.  We're at 0.3 cents, so that is roughly in line with the above.  If we say 30M RAC should equal due to market forces 1c coin, then at 10M Team RAC, you'd need 1K RAC to get 0.01% of the daily PoDC reward.  You'd need 20K BBP to fully stake.   If the price jumped to 1c and the RAC jumped to 30M, then your 1K RAC would get you 0.003%, still require 20K to stake, but the daily cash value of your PoDC would remain roughly the same.

So yes, new users will need to bootstrap themselves somehow, either loan from a friend or buy on the market.  But the rewards are proportionate to the individuals RAC and stake, and this is fair regardless of if you've got 1K or 100K RAC.   And as the value hopefully increases, the cash value of your reward could remain roughly the same even as your actual number of coins rewarded decreases. There are a few ways to help new users, but most of them open the door for people to abuse the system (limiting unstaked RAC encourages multiple accounts for instance).   I've been talking to a few people about a project to mitigate this and am not quite ready to unveil it, but hopefully will have some discussion in the near future to see if at some level new users can be better taken care of in the system without having to upend the otherwise equitable system and encourage cheats.

[aikida3k]

58 Million Biblepay coins tied up in mining, just by the top 3 Biblepay whales!

BBP
Onii-Chan
Mike

I never expected Onii to drop to #2 to be overtaken by a bigger whale...

Its even more fascinating that User #1 is at 90% UTXO because his RAC is rising faster than his 26.4 Million stake requirement.

Wow! That's crazy to see. If I look at the superblock view, there's something like 160M in PODC staking total. and then there are around 189 masternodes configured, so let's call that another 292M in masternode staking.

That makes 160+292 = 452M total reserved for staking, out of a total supply of 600M. >75% of our total supply is reserved.

Does that seem high to anyone? I don't know that it is a PROBLEM or anything, but it seems like a big percentage to me.

I do agree that something needs to change here, I'm trying to get my Biblepay mining working correctly and just with my main desktop and a small older HP workstation server, my RAC is so high (11K), I would need over 300K coins to get the full rewards, which right now, costs about $1000usd. I understand trying to eliminate the botnet, etc., but this seems a little over the top. You basically have to have a mini-masternode just to be able to mine the coin.

I agree also partially.

Btw nice term mini-masternode

I also agree that it's probably too high for some with the current BBP prices. As far as I'm concerned staking is for battling botnets, but it should not be so high that it discourages some/most new users to mine. Staking BBP/MAG could maybe be better in this regard.

But I guess that nothing is stopping us from changing the staking requirements with every mandatory update, right?

user adoption is essential for a coin to survive, and many people are here to mine.

Or course, there is always unbanked mining if you don't want to or can't stake. And there are ways to earn BBP in other ways, like writing letters to orphans, and creating proposals if you think you can contribute to BiblePay.

I mean, if BBP goes 10x, we will definitely need to change the staking requirements, or else no-one is going to start mining with such high entry costs, and that will shift power to the people already mining now.

Also, for a good 'spread of the wealth', it's probably best to have high early user adoption.

Jaapgvk, I'm not meaning to come off as harsh, you're a super nice and super generous guy.
Right now it's a pretty good joke 'if Biblepay goes 10x'.  Have you seen the 2.6 million (now 2.4 million) BBP on the ask at c-cex that has been sitting at 37 sat for at least 48 hours now?  This coin needs staking to survive meeting its obligations to the orphans.  There needs to be some way to increase demand before you talk about lowering staking requirements.  How about getting over 1 BTC total on the bid?  Other exchanges are looking at that in regards as to whether they will add BBP.  To put it bluntly, this coin needs to be shilled, but no one want to do the shilling.

I don't see why not, as it's doing great things in the world and there is all kind of evidence for that.

Where would demand come from if there are no new users coming because the cost of entry is just too high? I want people all over the world to be able to mine this coin with just the PC that they have at home. I'm not talking solely about western countries, but also the less fortunate countries in terms of people's income.I think that's a large part of our potential userbase, including people that are just starting out in crypto and want to use their home-PC to earn some. When that person needs to invest $1000+ just to start mining, that person is probably NEVER going to do that, because most people in this world don't really have those kind of savings.

I liked Rob's idea of giving people a 'starting capital' though. If new users have a CPID + a certain amount of RAC (+I thought that Rob had some other requirements in order to be given the capital), they can go to a faucet that gives them an x-amount (1000s?) of BBP, so they can start earning rewards right away.

I would like to see that implemented.

Oh, and regarding shilling: I'm building a bounty page for our new website right now, and I have  a topic in the proposal section of our forum to have an airdrop https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=120.0
I also talk about a signature campaign in there. And I like your paper wallet suggestion. These are all ways to give BiblePay more exposure.

I'm very aware that this coin needs more exposure, but I don't think that it needs a fixed 20BBP/RAC staking requirement in order to grow. It could very well become a reason why the coin can fail. As far as I'm concerned, it's a way to fight botnets, but it shouldn't prevent people from joining us because they just can't afford it.

Demand has to come from buyers.  Miners don't support orphans.  Miners only stake or introduce supply.  Buyers support the price.  Supporting the price is what allows us to support orphans.  A 75% lockup is a very good reason to buy the coin.  But people have to know that we are staking to mine, which locks ups supply, which is another reason this coin needs to be shilled.  If you take away the staking requirement, I will sell my stake and leave.  Because then there isn't much that prevents this coin from round tripping to 15 satoshi.  Only about .75 bitcoin, in fact.

ALL POW coins are facing this problem: Why do buyers put up with miners constantly introducing supply?  And what prevents miners from scaling up to the point of vanishing profit?  The answer to both of these conundrums is stake to mine: miners have to hold with buyers and lock supply up.  Miners have to buy coin, which stabilizes or raises prices in order to scale up, preserving the profitability of mining.  You need to stake in order to preserve mining profitability. That's why if we take away staking, I am leaving while the getting is good.

[aikida3k]

I also agree that it's probably too high for some with the current BBP prices. As far as I'm concerned staking is for battling botnets, but it should not be so high that it discourages some/most new users to mine. Staking BBP/MAG could maybe be better in this regard.

But I guess that nothing is stopping us from changing the staking requirements with every mandatory update, right?

user adoption is essential for a coin to survive, and many people are here to mine.

Or course, there is always unbanked mining if you don't want to or can't stake. And there are ways to earn BBP in other ways, like writing letters to orphans, and creating proposals if you think you can contribute to BiblePay.

I mean, if BBP goes 10x, we will definitely need to change the staking requirements, or else no-one is going to start mining with such high entry costs, and that will shift power to the people already mining now.

Also, for a good 'spread of the wealth', it's probably best to have high early user adoption.

Jaapgvk, I'm not meaning to come off as harsh, you're a super nice and super generous guy.
Right now it's a pretty good joke 'if Biblepay goes 10x'.  Have you seen the 2.6 million (now 2.4 million) BBP on the ask at c-cex that has been sitting at 37 sat for at least 48 hours now?  This coin needs staking to survive meeting its obligations to the orphans.  There needs to be some way to increase demand before you talk about lowering staking requirements.  How about getting over 1 BTC total on the bid?  Other exchanges are looking at that in regards as to whether they will add BBP.  To put it bluntly, this coin needs to be shilled, but no one want to do the shilling.

I don't see why not, as it's doing great things in the world and there is all kind of evidence for that.

Where would demand come from if there are no new users coming because the cost of entry is just too high? I want people all over the world to be able to mine this coin with just the PC that they have at home. I'm not talking solely about western countries, but also the less fortunate countries in terms of people's income.I think that's a large part of our potential userbase, including people that are just starting out in crypto and want to use their home-PC to earn some. When that person needs to invest $1000+ just to start mining, that person is probably NEVER going to do that, because most people in this world don't really have those kind of savings.

I liked Rob's idea of giving people a 'starting capital' though. If new users have a CPID + a certain amount of RAC (+I thought that Rob had some other requirements in order to be given the capital), they can go to a faucet that gives them an x-amount (1000s?) of BBP, so they can start earning rewards right away.

I would like to see that implemented.

Oh, and regarding shilling: I'm building a bounty page for our new website right now, and I have  a topic in the proposal section of our forum to have an airdrop https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=120.0
I also talk about a signature campaign in there. And I like your paper wallet suggestion. These are all ways to give BiblePay more exposure.

I'm very aware that this coin needs more exposure, but I don't think that it needs a fixed 20BBP/RAC staking requirement in order to grow. It could very well become a reason why the coin can fail. As far as I'm concerned, it's a way to fight botnets, but it shouldn't prevent people from joining us because they just can't afford it.

When I was thinking about the problem this morning, I thought a possible solution could include a tiered staking system. If the lower, "introductory" tiers has a very low or no staking requirement, but as you go up the tiers, the staking requirement increases quite a bit. So if you wanted to really ramp up the mining, you would need to stake a lot more coins to get the full reward.

Big miners will just have multiple "small" accounts then instead of just having everything consolidated under 1 account.

Exactly. Sorry leetlezee, but this has been extensively discussed.

I have nothing against the system per se, I just think that it should be affordable by the vast majority of 'everyday users', now and in the future. It should be fair, although, what 'fair' means is something on which opinions will vary.

If the price of the coin rises, the value of the rewards for the most part will rise in stop.  At some point we'll hit a balanced RAC/price level (I'm guessing at a ratio of between 20M-30M RAC/1 cent BBP).  I could be dramatically off on this estimate so take it as an example (even though I have reasons too lengthy to discuss why I believe that number is valid).  At some point, the movement of new RAC should roughly follow the price.  So using the above numbers, right now we're at 9M RAC give or take and trending via daily work to a 10M target.  We're at 0.3 cents, so that is roughly in line with the above.  If we say 30M RAC should equal due to market forces 1c coin, then at 10M Team RAC, you'd need 1K RAC to get 0.01% of the daily PoDC reward.  You'd need 20K BBP to fully stake.   If the price jumped to 1c and the RAC jumped to 30M, then your 1K RAC would get you 0.003%, still require 20K to stake, but the daily cash value of your PoDC would remain roughly the same.

So yes, new users will need to bootstrap themselves somehow, either loan from a friend or buy on the market.  But the rewards are proportionate to the individuals RAC and stake, and this is fair regardless of if you've got 1K or 100K RAC.   And as the value hopefully increases, the cash value of your reward could remain roughly the same even as your actual number of coins rewarded decreases. There are a few ways to help new users, but most of them open the door for people to abuse the system (limiting unstaked RAC encourages multiple accounts for instance).   I've been talking to a few people about a project to mitigate this and am not quite ready to unveil it, but hopefully will have some discussion in the near future to see if at some level new users can be better taken care of in the system without having to upend the otherwise equitable system and encourage cheats.

People say, "if the price of the coin rises".  That is a major if.  If it does rise, lowering the staking requirement is a good problem to have. BUT, have you checked out the pricing history of Dogecoin?  It's a high effusion coin that has been around for years and the price on it pumps and then returns to a baseline.  It doesn't uptrend consistently.  With our demand profile, our with our effusion, our price will be like Dogecoin's price.  Future price action of Biblepay:

https://i.imgur.com/Lq4xr8k.png

[jaapgvk]

58 Million Biblepay coins tied up in mining, just by the top 3 Biblepay whales!

BBP
Onii-Chan
Mike

I never expected Onii to drop to #2 to be overtaken by a bigger whale...

Its even more fascinating that User #1 is at 90% UTXO because his RAC is rising faster than his 26.4 Million stake requirement.

Wow! That's crazy to see. If I look at the superblock view, there's something like 160M in PODC staking total. and then there are around 189 masternodes configured, so let's call that another 292M in masternode staking.

That makes 160+292 = 452M total reserved for staking, out of a total supply of 600M. >75% of our total supply is reserved.

Does that seem high to anyone? I don't know that it is a PROBLEM or anything, but it seems like a big percentage to me.

I do agree that something needs to change here, I'm trying to get my Biblepay mining working correctly and just with my main desktop and a small older HP workstation server, my RAC is so high (11K), I would need over 300K coins to get the full rewards, which right now, costs about $1000usd. I understand trying to eliminate the botnet, etc., but this seems a little over the top. You basically have to have a mini-masternode just to be able to mine the coin.

I agree also partially.

Btw nice term mini-masternode

I also agree that it's probably too high for some with the current BBP prices. As far as I'm concerned staking is for battling botnets, but it should not be so high that it discourages some/most new users to mine. Staking BBP/MAG could maybe be better in this regard.

But I guess that nothing is stopping us from changing the staking requirements with every mandatory update, right?

user adoption is essential for a coin to survive, and many people are here to mine.

Or course, there is always unbanked mining if you don't want to or can't stake. And there are ways to earn BBP in other ways, like writing letters to orphans, and creating proposals if you think you can contribute to BiblePay.

I mean, if BBP goes 10x, we will definitely need to change the staking requirements, or else no-one is going to start mining with such high entry costs, and that will shift power to the people already mining now.

Also, for a good 'spread of the wealth', it's probably best to have high early user adoption.

Jaapgvk, I'm not meaning to come off as harsh, you're a super nice and super generous guy.
Right now it's a pretty good joke 'if Biblepay goes 10x'.  Have you seen the 2.6 million (now 2.4 million) BBP on the ask at c-cex that has been sitting at 37 sat for at least 48 hours now?  This coin needs staking to survive meeting its obligations to the orphans.  There needs to be some way to increase demand before you talk about lowering staking requirements.  How about getting over 1 BTC total on the bid?  Other exchanges are looking at that in regards as to whether they will add BBP.  To put it bluntly, this coin needs to be shilled, but no one want to do the shilling.

I don't see why not, as it's doing great things in the world and there is all kind of evidence for that.

Where would demand come from if there are no new users coming because the cost of entry is just too high? I want people all over the world to be able to mine this coin with just the PC that they have at home. I'm not talking solely about western countries, but also the less fortunate countries in terms of people's income.I think that's a large part of our potential userbase, including people that are just starting out in crypto and want to use their home-PC to earn some. When that person needs to invest $1000+ just to start mining, that person is probably NEVER going to do that, because most people in this world don't really have those kind of savings.

I liked Rob's idea of giving people a 'starting capital' though. If new users have a CPID + a certain amount of RAC (+I thought that Rob had some other requirements in order to be given the capital), they can go to a faucet that gives them an x-amount (1000s?) of BBP, so they can start earning rewards right away.

I would like to see that implemented.

Oh, and regarding shilling: I'm building a bounty page for our new website right now, and I have  a topic in the proposal section of our forum to have an airdrop https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=120.0
I also talk about a signature campaign in there. And I like your paper wallet suggestion. These are all ways to give BiblePay more exposure.

I'm very aware that this coin needs more exposure, but I don't think that it needs a fixed 20BBP/RAC staking requirement in order to grow. It could very well become a reason why the coin can fail. As far as I'm concerned, it's a way to fight botnets, but it shouldn't prevent people from joining us because they just can't afford it.

Demand has to come from buyers.  Miners don't support orphans.  Miners only stake or introduce supply.  Buyers support the price.  Supporting the price is what allows us to support orphans.  A 75% lockup is a very good reason to buy the coin.  But people have to know that we are staking to mine, which locks ups supply, which is another reason this coin needs to be shilled.  If you take away the staking requirement, I will sell my stake and leave.  Because then there isn't much that prevents this coin from round tripping to 15 satoshi.  Only about .75 bitcoin, in fact.

ALL POW coins are facing this problem: Why do buyers put up with miners constantly introducing supply?  And what prevents miners from scaling up to the point of vanishing profit?  The answer to both of these conundrums is stake to mine: miners have to hold with buyers and lock supply up.  Miners have to buy coin, which stabilizes or raises prices in order to scale up, preserving the profitability of mining.  You need to stake in order to preserve mining profitability. That's why if we take away staking, I am leaving while the getting is good.

I never said we should take away staking, I simply said that the 20BBP/RAC is perhaps too high to attract new users. Let's face it: the vast majority of our current users are probably miners. And miners are also buyers. See rastiks real-life example. THAT is where I think our primary investors currently are, and they decided not to invest because the costs to start mining was just too high.

These users start by mining, then they get involved in the project, then they add other value (I, for example, started as a miner). If we have a nice growth of miners (users), there is much less need to shill.