The end is near

[EvilPanda]

Capitalism is not as good as you think if it comes to the point where 1% of the population owns 90% of the money. It's hard to find examples of honest trade, rather more and more poverty and slave labour while the fat pigs get fatter.

[shawshankinmate37927]

Capitalism is not as good as you think if it comes to the point where 1% of the population owns 90% of the money. It's hard to find examples of honest trade, rather more and more poverty and slave labour while the fat pigs get fatter.

This sort of thing doesn't happen in capitalist systems.  It's socialist societies, like the USA, that have these issues.

[EvilPanda]

Capitalism is not as good as you think if it comes to the point where 1% of the population owns 90% of the money. It's hard to find examples of honest trade, rather more and more poverty and slave labour while the fat pigs get fatter.

This sort of thing doesn't happen in capitalist systems.  It's socialist societies, like the USA, that have these issues.

So real capitalism is a myth because I live in the EU and, sadly, the situation is the same or even worse than in the US. Small businesses go bankrupt and slave drivers prosper.

[shawshankinmate37927]

So real capitalism is a myth because I live in the EU and, sadly, the situation is the same or even worse than in the US. Small businesses go bankrupt and slave drivers prosper.

I believe Bitcoin is going to lead the way to a free and thriving global economy.  It's just going to take some time for people to wake up and better understand how free markets lead to prosperity.  We are still in the early stages.  There will still be plenty of people that prefer to live in a socialist system, but that is what's so great about Bitcoin.  It allows those who don't to opt out of the fiat monetary system that socialism depends on and allows us to create a voluntary, free market economy.

[EvilPanda]

I believe Bitcoin is going to lead the way to a free and thriving global economy.

Jost hope we live to see this. Now every time I watch the news it's all about government trying to force new taxes. Land tax was not enough, alcohol tax, income tax, outcome tax, tax for buying a car then for driving it, fueling it, selling it, even for having a dog! If that hasn't been ridiculous enough we have 'air tax' in some regions. Makes me wanna move to the woods somewhere, but that may be hard since even gathering firewood is forbidden...

[prophetx]

Capitalism is not as good as you think if it comes to the point where 1% of the population owns 90% of the money. It's hard to find examples of honest trade, rather more and more poverty and slave labour while the fat pigs get fatter.

This sort of thing doesn't happen in capitalist systems.  It's socialist societies, like the USA, that have these issues.

Yes it does.  They are definitely not mutually exclusive.  Please look up what the terms mean. 

Capitalism involves, among other things, the private ownership of the means of production and private property (and accumulation thereof).  Whereas this is not the case with Socialism, strictly speaking.

As you may be aware the USA has a very strong history when it comes to protecting private property rights, likely stronger than any other country on this planet.  It's absurd to call the uSA a socialist society, as much as it is to call Cuba, for example, a capitalist society.

[shawshankinmate37927]

Yes it does.  They are definitely not mutually exclusive.  Please look up what the terms mean. 

Capitalism involves, among other things, the private ownership of the means of production and private property (and accumulation thereof).  Whereas this is not the case with Socialism, strictly speaking.

As you may be aware the USA has a very strong history when it comes to protecting private property rights, likely stronger than any other country on this planet.  It's absurd to call the uSA a socialist society, as much as it is to call Cuba, for example, a capitalist society.

The USA was once a great example of capitalism, but that is no longer the case.  Private property is being confiscated, taxed, and redistributed.  Businesses are highly regulated and purchasing power is being stolen from the people by a banking system created by the politicians.  What we have now is a great example of socialism.  Karl Marx would be very pleased with the way things are in the USA now.

Anyone who thinks that the USA is still a capitalist country is completely clueless.

[Zarathustra]

Yes it does.  They are definitely not mutually exclusive.  Please look up what the terms mean.  

Capitalism involves, among other things, the private ownership of the means of production and private property (and accumulation thereof).  Whereas this is not the case with Socialism, strictly speaking.

As you may be aware the USA has a very strong history when it comes to protecting private property rights, likely stronger than any other country on this planet.  It's absurd to call the uSA a socialist society, as much as it is to call Cuba, for example, a capitalist society.

The USA was once a great example of capitalism, but that is no longer the case.  Private property is being confiscated, taxed, and redistributed.  Businesses are highly regulated and purchasing power is being stolen from the people by a banking system created by the politicians.  What we have now is a great example of socialism.  Karl Marx would be very pleased with the way things are in the USA now.

Anyone who thinks that the USA is still a capitalist country is completely clueless.

Capitalism and Socialism is Collectivism. It's the same Bullshit. Private property is always sub-property, which is guaranteed by the state, because with this private sub-property, the tax payer is able to generate taxed surpluses. Without a state, there is no such thing as a private property.

[xavier]

Wow.. I kind've wish this thread would disappear.

Although I still feel very bad about the economy

Memo to avoid creating any similar threads

I would just post this for any similar Austrian economists, who haven't already heard it before. Or anybody who's just reading this from top to bottom. It gives you something to think about.

The owner of a ship noticed that his ship was filling with water. Being an educated man (if not nautically trained) he knew there were many possible causes for water in a ship: leaks in the hull, the bilge pump being broken, waves washing over, condensation, and even the crew urinating in the hold. He heard the bilge pump running, he saw water from waves pouring in the open hatches, but worst of all he smelled urine in the hold! Being sensible, he ordered the crew to shut the hatches and then gave them a lengthy, stern harangue on hygienic use of the head. While he was lecturing the crew, his ship sank due to a combination of causes: large, unobserved leaks in the hull, a bilge pump that was running but not pumping correctly, and condensation that had shorted out warning circuitry.

http://critiquesoflibertarianism.blogspot.co.uk/2009/05/parable-of-ship-why-austrian-economics.html

Personally I reject this in the current economic situation..... but, things may just be more complicated than we all realize.

You need to be aware of the people around you. Assassins can be kind, stupid can appear smart, honest can appear to be lying and friends could be foes. It is always an mistake to assume you know the people around you without ever having questioned them. But honestly when you open up with "perhaps I am preaching to the choir" you set yourself up for a rude awakening.

Sorry, Im not sure I understand what you're saying.

To be clear, I still believe things are in a very very big mess. I reject this situation above.

I didn't assume knowing anybody? Infact, I posted because I wanted to see if anybody held the same views.

I believe we could be , as Peter Schiff says, in the "eye of the storm". Things are not getting better in the economy, it seems to be the opposite. It's just a matter of time before people realize.

Having said that, the disclaimer above sort of says that I am not a professional economist, I do not spend hours looking at all the different facts and statistics. I am not qualified in economics and I have not experience working at a hedge fund or government department, although I do follow the news closely. I have worked in investment banking for a while, but I currently do not work as a market professional. Therefore I would be classed as an amateur speculator. Despite this, I believe that sometimes one can just use intuition and boldness to be right when other people are wrong. Technical analysis isn't everything. Sometimes the facts really are obvious. I believe now is one of those situations..

[shawshankinmate37927]

Capitalism and Socialism is Collectivism. It's the same Bullshit. Private property is always sub-property, which is guaranteed by the state, because with this private sub-property, the tax payer is able to generate taxed surpluses. Without a state, there is no such thing as a private property.

Sorry, but capitalism and socialism aren't even remotely similar.

[bitmateco]

Capitalism and Socialism is Collectivism. It's the same Bullshit. Private property is always sub-property, which is guaranteed by the state, because with this private sub-property, the tax payer is able to generate taxed surpluses. Without a state, there is no such thing as a private property.

Sorry, but capitalism and socialism aren't even remotely similar.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_QICIsTzi-vs/TIlN-mWNyDI/AAAAAAAAAbE/gOQrf3-15PU/s1600/what-is-socialism50-percen.jpg

meen that picture is bullshit you are a fool

[shawshankinmate37927]

meen that picture is bullshit you are a fool

Sounds like someone can't handle the truth.

[bitbeast]

[Dasneko]

meen that picture is bullshit you are a fool

Sounds like someone can't handle the truth.

The truth as in political slogans? I mean seriously what the hell do "punishes success" or "rewards laziness" mean? Its just something people say to get you riled up like "They are anti-*insert your country*!".

"Redistribution of wealth"... I do not see a problem if its necessary besides its not like it does not happen in a capitalist society. Inheritance being a key flaw in "To each according to his abilities" and "Rewards success"... or a wealthy father/mother. Poking holes is so fun :3

"Collective ownership"... Corporations, democracy and countries are all Collective ownerships. Dont see you complain about that.

"Large welfare systems"... Or small ones depending on how much your country sucks to live in. You know human rights is a need that should be filled regardless of the cost. If its too expensive for you then perhaps you are doing something else wrong.

"Large invasive government" Because socialism is all about looking in your mailbox? Really grow up.

You may actually want to educate yourself about what socialism and capitalism actually means because I do not think it means what you think it means if that makes any sense to you. Feel free to attack Socialism all you like since its not like its a perfect system but right now you are just uninformed and it makes me sad.

Sorry, Im not sure I understand what you're saying.

To be clear, I still believe things are in a very very big mess. I reject this situation above.

I didn't assume knowing anybody? Infact, I posted because I wanted to see if anybody held the same views.

I believe we could be , as Peter Schiff says, in the "eye of the storm". Things are not getting better in the economy, it seems to be the opposite. It's just a matter of time before people realize.

Having said that, the disclaimer above sort of says that I am not a professional economist, I do not spend hours looking at all the different facts and statistics. I am not qualified in economics and I have not experience working at a hedge fund or government department, although I do follow the news closely. I have worked in investment banking for a while as an investment analyst, but I currently do not work as a market professional. Therefore I would be classed as an amateur speculator. Despite this, I believe that sometimes one can just use intuition and boldness to be right when other people are wrong. Technical analysis isn't everything. Sometimes the facts really are obvious. I believe now is one of those situations..

In every instance there are winners and losers. If America falls then someone else will raise and take its place just like when France,England and Germany fell America took their place. It is hardly unique for these events to happen and we are always taken by surprise for some reason.

Anyway I have to say there is still a few key events that has to occur before USA will fall from its throne. One would be the enormous economic advantage the dollar enjoys being the currency used in buying oil and China stopping giving loans to the American government because it fears they wont be paid back. There is allot of safety nets protecting USA right now which is why they can be this careless without much worry. Since im an outsider who will not be affected by any potential fallout this might cause I will be watching with popcorn at the ready. Have fun and good luck with your country.

[bitbeast]

Redistribution of wealth

- Yeah baby; exactly!

[Rassah]

The owner of a ship noticed that his ship was filling with water. Being an educated man (if not nautically trained) he knew there were many possible causes for water in a ship: leaks in the hull, the bilge pump being broken, waves washing over, condensation, and even the crew urinating in the hold. He heard the bilge pump running, he saw water from waves pouring in the open hatches, but worst of all he smelled urine in the hold! Being sensible, he ordered the crew to shut the hatches and then gave them a lengthy, stern harangue on hygienic use of the head. While he was lecturing the crew, his ship sank due to a combination of causes: large, unobserved leaks in the hull, a bilge pump that was running but not pumping correctly, and condensation that had shorted out warning circuitry.

http://critiquesoflibertarianism.blogspot.co.uk/2009/05/parable-of-ship-why-austrian-economics.html

Huh.. I wonder what the solution to this would be, since just assigning the title of "government bureaucrat" to the ship owner, and giving him a badge, won't change the results. I mean, I guess the retort question is, if the owner doesn't even know these things, how would someone who's not even involved in it directly know them?

[Rassah]

Capitalism has been the driving mechanism for human society, progress and prosperity in modern history.

for human society? ROTFL
only for some human, the minority that lives in "g8"
the rest of us, live in conditions like war, starvation, pollution, no instruction...

Sounds like the rest of you guys need something you are severely lacking: capitalism 

[Anenome5]

You must not have been much of an Austrian if you didn't even grasp the basic point that individualism has nothing to do with isolationism. Also, it's a simple correlation-causation fallacy to claim that rainforest tribes are not advancing because they are anarchistic.

I wrote nothing about isolationism. I wrote: An 'individualist' life is possible within a collectivist, materialist society only. Beyond the collectivist society, within the stateless community, there is no individualism.

Self-sufficient rainforest tribes are not advancing and producing surpluses within 1 million years, because they are not forced to produce surpluses (for the church and state mafia). To be forced is the only evident causal reason to produce surpluses. No state = no economy, no business.

Utterly ridiculous.

People produce extra because it's in their interest to do so, so they can exchange it for other wanted goods or invest it, etc.

The nation-state actually circumvents this by siphoning off the extra production, reducing incentive to produce extra, since you won't get to enjoy it nearly as much, since they take it from you.

[Anenome5]

Capitalism is not as good as you think if it comes to the point where 1% of the population owns 90% of the money. It's hard to find examples of honest trade, rather more and more poverty and slave labour while the fat pigs get fatter.

The middle class was created by capitalism, just look into history of the middle class, it arrived with the industrial revolution in Britain and followed from there to the world.

It is socialist states where income disparities are worst.

[Anenome5]

I believe Bitcoin is going to lead the way to a free and thriving global economy.

Jost hope we live to see this. Now every time I watch the news it's all about government trying to force new taxes. Land tax was not enough, alcohol tax, income tax, outcome tax, tax for buying a car then for driving it, fueling it, selling it, even for having a dog! If that hasn't been ridiculous enough we have 'air tax' in some regions. Makes me wanna move to the woods somewhere, but that may be hard since even gathering firewood is forbidden...

/r/seasteading, imo.