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Author Topic: Suggested new Moderation rule  (Read 1388 times)
MineForeman.com
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June 21, 2013, 06:44:36 AM
 #1

Recently I had a thread moved to "Service Discussion" and felt the moderators sting.

While it does actually pertain to MtGox it is more of a subtle commentary about the problems about doing business with bitcoin here it is;-

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=239479.new;topicseen#new

You will actualy have to read it though to get to the point.  John K went through it, pulled out a few people who were determined to "off track" it and left it in place, reasonable moderation I thought.

Later another moderator found it, was the title and them moved it to service discussion.

My proposed rule;-

# You must read a post before you moderate it.

Neil

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TradeFortress 🏕
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June 21, 2013, 07:03:20 AM
 #2

Most of your blog post is about either your group buy or Mt Gox.
MineForeman.com
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June 21, 2013, 07:31:24 AM
 #3

Most of your blog post is about either your group buy or Mt Gox.

Correct, and my experiences doing business with bitcoin.

If your trying to imply that because it is about two services therefore it is a service your missing out on a lot in life.

I am sorry if I sound a bit snarky, but I feel like your just defending a bad moderation decision by relying on technicalities, if you have read the post (and you have at least skimmed it apparently) its a post about doing business with bitcoin.

You may want to come back to me as say something like "doing business with bitcoin" is a service but I honestly believe that if your going to be that narrow in your definition of things there is no such thing as general bitcoin and perhaps the category should be removed.

Regardless, I am not asking for my thread to be yanked back from the obscurity of being mislabeled as a service, I am asking for the moderation not to be so "knee jerk" and closed minded.

Neil

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June 21, 2013, 07:33:29 AM
 #4

You are not a service. Your thread (and apparently blog post) is discussing services. Thus it belongs in service discussion.

BTW, what else is there on your blog that it managed to get into our content filter?
John (John K.)
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June 21, 2013, 07:37:22 AM
 #5

I'm still wondering why my post there has disappeared Huh.

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June 21, 2013, 07:38:09 AM
 #6

I'm still wondering why my post there has disappeared Huh.

You got moderated Tongue .

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June 21, 2013, 07:40:35 AM
 #7

You are not a service. Your thread (and apparently blog post) is discussing services. Thus it belongs in service discussion.

I refer back to what I said about narrow definitions and the meaning of general.

BTW, what else is there on your blog that it managed to get into our content filter?

I have no idea..  Does it give you an reason?  Who is your provider?

Neil

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June 21, 2013, 07:47:51 AM
 #8


BTW, what else is there on your blog that it managed to get into our content filter?

I have no idea..  Does it give you an reason?  Who is your provider?

Neil

You're getting flagged for "potentially malicious software"
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June 21, 2013, 07:51:34 AM
 #9

You're getting flagged for "potentially malicious software"

That's a new one I wonder if they are talking about bitcoin Tongue .  Perhaps they did a deep scan of my MinePeon images and worked out there is a copy of cgminer in there, that get flagged all the time (feel the sarcasm in that one Tongue).

What software/provider is it?  I would like to make a plea for my innocence.


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June 21, 2013, 08:02:08 AM
 #10

What software/provider is it?  I would like to make a plea for my innocence.




No idea. It's a generic Bluecoat message. No indication which filter engine this is coming from.

No "commercial provider" per se. I'm on Internet2/X-WiN via the company proxy.
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June 21, 2013, 08:04:34 AM
 #11

I am sorry if I sound a bit snarky, but I feel like your just defending a bad moderation decision by relying on technicalities, if you have read the post (and you have at least skimmed it apparently) its a post about doing business with bitcoin.
I have read the whole post, but it's primary about doing busiess with bitcoin services, not Bitcoin. Selling a cow for BTC is doing business with Bitcoin, getting your funds frozen because your exchange shut down withdrawals is doing business with Bitcoin services.
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June 21, 2013, 08:21:15 AM
 #12

I have read the whole post, but it's about services more than about Bitcoin. It could have easily been "I organized a group buy for rare earth magnets, PayPal froze my funds for 180 days".

Feeling a bit defensive there?  Your example is not even about bitcoins (not even generally).  You're still relying on your narrow definitions to defend something that should not really be defended. 

I will go further this time to see if I convince you to open your definitions a bit, lets say I post a thread titled;-

"Bank of America is opening a service that allows people to exchange bitcoins!!!!!!"

By your definition you would be hitting the "Move Thread" button before you got to read the second exclamation mark.  Don't you think that perhaps that would be a mistake?  Even if you did not immediately move it as you say you would and read the post and it was indeed about a service do you really think you would still move it?

I know that I am going deeply into reductio ad absurdum with that example but you went there first and I am just pointing out that the argument "it has services in it therefore it is a service" is narrow minded.

Neil

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June 21, 2013, 09:00:25 AM
 #13

Hi All,

I have written an entire blog post on the (2,000+ words) and try as I might I dont seem to be able to format it here so it makes sense so you can read it here;-

http://mineforeman.com/2013/06/21/more-info-on-the-mtgox-temporary-hiatus-on-u-s-dollar-withdrawals/

Have a read, I had a lot of fun writing it (perversely).

Neil

I did read your post, looks like service discussion to me. With all the phishers and malicious links posted, I'm not going to click on every random blog post. Did you ever consider, that since there seems to be so much confusion over where it goes, maybe a title rename to more accurately reflect the content of the article would be in order?

Consensus seems to be it belongs there so I'll leave it where it is, but I won't complain if another mod with more time wants to double check it and move it if they feel so inclined.

@john, I deleted no posts.

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June 21, 2013, 09:32:15 AM
 #14

You are talking about precisely 2 services. It seriously does not belong in Bitcoin Discussion IMO.

Quote
Your example is not even about bitcoins (not even generally).

That's my point. It's not relevant to Bitcoin (the system), it can be about anything. Group buy of hardware and a financial institution freezing your funds? Totally about bitcoin and not about bitcoin services!

Quote
"Bank of America is opening a service that allows people to exchange bitcoins!!!!!!"

From what I read, there's a noteworthyness criteria.



I think OP is a bit annoyed that the mods are depriving him of juicy advertising revenue..

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June 21, 2013, 09:33:01 AM
 #15

I am sorry if I sound a bit snarky, but I feel like your just defending a bad moderation decision by relying on technicalities, if you have read the post (and you have at least skimmed it apparently) its a post about doing business with bitcoin.
I have read the whole post, but it's primary about doing busiess with bitcoin services, not Bitcoin. Selling a cow for BTC is doing business with Bitcoin, getting your funds frozen because your exchange shut down withdrawals is doing business with Bitcoin services.

Now you have lost all respect from me all together.

Going back and changing your own post to say something different because you think it is better after someone has already replied to your post is darn right dishonest!

I hope you do that personally by the way just in case your misunderstanding my meaning.  You might want to lean a few things about fair play.

Neil

(sorry to anyone else that read that I have had enough of people with zero integrity today(I don't mean to rest of you by the way, just him))

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June 21, 2013, 09:33:59 AM
 #16

You are talking about precisely 2 services. It seriously does not belong in Bitcoin Discussion IMO.

Quote
Your example is not even about bitcoins (not even generally).

That's my point. It's not relevant to Bitcoin (the system), it can be about anything. Group buy of hardware and a financial institution freezing your funds? Totally about bitcoin and not about bitcoin services!

Sorry, your point is meaningless to me at this point.

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June 21, 2013, 09:36:59 AM
 #17

What? I frequently edit posts after posting a quick response to them. Good on you for responding to them fast enough, I guess. If I see someone has already replied to my post, then I'll make a new response, but you made a new response while I was in the middle of editing.

For example, I just added the last two sentences in an edit.
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June 21, 2013, 09:40:58 AM
 #18

Hi All,

I have written an entire blog post on the (2,000+ words) and try as I might I dont seem to be able to format it here so it makes sense so you can read it here;-

http://mineforeman.com/2013/06/21/more-info-on-the-mtgox-temporary-hiatus-on-u-s-dollar-withdrawals/

Have a read, I had a lot of fun writing it (perversely).

Neil

I did read your post, looks like service discussion to me. With all the phishers and malicious links posted, I'm not going to click on every random blog post. Did you ever consider, that since there seems to be so much confusion over where it goes, maybe a title rename to more accurately reflect the content of the article would be in order?

Consensus seems to be it belongs there so I'll leave it where it is, but I won't complain if another mod with more time wants to double check it and move it if they feel so inclined.

@john, I deleted no posts.

Thanks for the explanation, and I agree that it should not be moved back, moderators moderating moderators is a bad look.

But it does seem form your explanation that it was done more from a 'gut feeling' than an actual opinion at the time and while I understand that moderation of a forum like this must be a colossal pain in the ass I go back to what I commented at the very beginning.

Posts should be read before moderated.

I understand if you did not have time, I am just saying if you don't have time leave it to another moderator.

Neil

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June 21, 2013, 09:42:51 AM
 #19

You could have raised a better point with the moderators getting paid per action:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=234009.0
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June 21, 2013, 09:44:05 AM
 #20

What? I frequently edit posts after posting a quick response to them. Good on you for responding to them fast enough, I guess. If I see someone has already replied to my post, then I'll make a new response, but you made a new response while I was in the middle of editing.

For example, I just added the last two sentences in an edit.


bla bla bla  ...... I often do dishonest stuff ... bla bla bla

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June 21, 2013, 09:51:47 AM
 #21

Lol, ok, please don't edit any of your posts, mkay?
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June 21, 2013, 09:55:10 AM
 #22

You could have raised a better point with the moderators getting paid per action:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=234009.0

It's not per action.

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June 21, 2013, 09:58:50 AM
 #23

You could have raised a better point with the moderators getting paid per action:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=234009.0

It's not per action.

This post gave the impression that it is:

I remember I had a thread with absolute posting rules posted in the OP, clearly stating that if anyone goes off-topic that their post will be deleted by a mod. Mods did this regularly, but then got bored apparently. When I asked Theymos directly, he said "Start your own self-moderated thread". This sent the message to me that moderators don't want to moderate. Once I found out they're being paid to moderate, that is no longer acceptable.
Two things with this:
1) This was before the upgrade to the report system. It was hard to keep track of what had and hadn't been handled.
2) This was also before we started being paid.

Matthew, I always cleaned your threads when I was online and I was made aware of an issue. In fact, we make more money if we handle these issues, so if I saw that now I would scope that up in a heartbeat.
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June 21, 2013, 11:30:15 AM
 #24

Lol, ok, please don't edit any of your posts, mkay?

If by edit you mean change the content and meaning of a post after people have even a slightest chance to read it (i.e. after I hit post) then no I would never do that, I find that kind of thing reprehensible.

Neil

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June 21, 2013, 11:51:55 PM
 #25

I'm still wondering why my post there has disappeared Huh.
I split it off and sent it over here, since it was off-topic  Undecided

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June 22, 2013, 01:16:16 AM
 #26

What software/provider is it?  I would like to make a plea for my innocence.




No idea. It's a generic Bluecoat message. No indication which filter engine this is coming from.

No "commercial provider" per se. I'm on Internet2/X-WiN via the company proxy.

I wouldn't worry about it, I believe it is a localized issue (I have privileges with two Internet2 backbone participates and neither showed an issue).  Also online threat advisory sites (even ones known to give false readings) all gave either a completely clean bill of health or marked the site as well as the external links as "benign" (which is equivalent).  I didn't bother going deeper than the main page but it seems like it might be mishitting a random rule or perhaps some social elements cause issues (heck it could just be word context, I've seen some oddly built filters in my time).

Also I didn't know moderators got paid; probably for the best in most cases (it's very easy to burn yourself out with such a task).

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