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Author Topic: How to Reverse Bitcoin Transactions  (Read 363 times)
TheWaiter
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November 16, 2017, 05:52:49 AM
 #1

Hi all,
So this was a situation I was in a couple times but I wasn't on this forum when it happened.
So if I send a bitcoin payment, how will I be able to reverse the payment as long as the transaction still is unconfirmed.
Has anyone done this already and also, does the method apply for other cryptocurrencies as well?
Thanks,
(sorry for the nooby question)
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Thekool1s
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November 16, 2017, 06:13:00 AM
 #2

So this was a situation I was in a couple times but I wasn't on this forum when it happened.
So if I send a bitcoin payment, how will I be able to reverse the payment as long as the transaction still is unconfirmed.

You can do a RBF(Replace By Fee), Here is a guide which tells you how to do it properly with Electrum and GreenAddress. http://coinour.com/index.php/how-to-apply-replace-by-fee-to-save-the-bitcoin-transaction-fees/


Quote
Has anyone done this already and also, does the method apply for other cryptocurrencies as well?
Well depends on the currency we are talking about, For example Ethereum allows RBF, But it needs to be on the Same Address.


Edit: Wrong Answers Above ^.

See HCP's Answer.

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HCP
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November 16, 2017, 06:16:54 AM
 #3

The short answer is that you can't.

Once a transaction is broadcast, there is no way to reverse or cancel the payment. Even if it is unconfirmed.

You could attempt what is known as a "double spend" where you try to broadcast a transaction using the same inputs (but different outputs ie. Send back to your own address and a much larger fee) in the hope that it gets confirmed first... But it is very technical, complicated and difficult to do and there is no guarantee it will work... Even if the double spend is accepted by a node (most will reject it or refuse to relay it)


You can do a RBF(Replace By Fee), Here is a guide which tells you how to do it properly with Electrum and GreenAddress. http://coinour.com/index.php/how-to-apply-replace-by-fee-to-save-the-bitcoin-transaction-fees/
All that does is let you bump the fee... You can't "reverse" the transaction using RBF... It'll still go to the same address if confirmed:
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But there are some strict policies like the same sending and recipient address for new payment. Scammers have no way to do the tricks to double spend the money to new address

Thekool1s
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November 16, 2017, 06:42:30 AM
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All that does is let you bump the fee... You can't "reverse" the transaction using RBF... It'll still go to the same address if confirmed:

Wow, I thought that we could change the destination address, Well that's clearly something new to me.

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LoyceV
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November 16, 2017, 08:43:22 AM
 #5

Wow, I thought that we could change the destination address, Well that's clearly something new to me.
I've never used RBF, but I have used double spend. What I did was simply erase the transaction from my Bitcoin Core, and make a new transaction.

The short answer is that you can't.

All that does is let you bump the fee... You can't "reverse" the transaction using RBF... It'll still go to the same address if confirmed:
Quote
But there are some strict policies like the same sending and recipient address for new payment. Scammers have no way to do the tricks to double spend the money to new address
As a receiving party, you should never rely on this. As long as a transaction is not confirmed, there is no guarantee it will go true. Satoshi recommends to even wait for 6 confirmations.

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You could attempt what is known as a "double spend" where you try to broadcast a transaction using the same inputs (but different outputs ie. Send back to your own address and a much larger fee) in the hope that it gets confirmed first... But it is very technical, complicated and difficult to do and there is no guarantee it will work... Even if the double spend is accepted by a node (most will reject it or refuse to relay it)
It's actually quite simple, it just took me a while because rescanning my wallet to dump the transaction was slow. With the proper setup for this, a scammer could easily do it.

So this was a situation I was in a couple times but I wasn't on this forum when it happened.
How did you end up in this situation "a couple times"? If it's accidental, you should be more thorough. If it's malicious, well, you shouldn't Tongue

ranochigo
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November 16, 2017, 05:20:40 PM
 #6

You can reverse Bitcoin transactions, though that would mean that it is challenging.

1) If you paid an extremely low fee and the receiver accepts it (unlikely), then you can assume that the majority of the network hasn't seen it yet. If you broadcast another transaction, you can potentially get the alternate transaction to confirm. The transaction can be relayed because most of the node doesn't have the transaction in their mempool.
2) If you get a miner's participation, it would be even easier. The miner can easily mine a block which contains your replacement transaction. This is likely harder than (1) and it requires the miner to find a block before the original transaction gets a confirmation for it to be worthwhile.

I had the impression that Opt-In RBF allows for changing of receiving addresses, it wasn't documented anywhere in the BIP. FFS-RBF does not indeed allow the changing of receiving address. Could the article have been mistaken?

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