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Author Topic: How do timelocked transactions work?  (Read 1206 times)
eternalgloom (OP)
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November 17, 2017, 12:48:15 AM
Merited by ABCbits (1)
 #1

I've been looking for an easy way to create a transaction with a time lock, so it can't be spent before a certain date/block.
Is there currently a wallet that allows me to create such a transaction through a GUI?

Once the transaction is timelocked, it can't be spent in any other way right?

I've already read through a couple of tutorials and wikis but couldn't find a really straightforward way of creating such a transaction without having to resort to command line...

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November 17, 2017, 01:34:48 AM
Merited by hugeblack (4), eternalgloom (2), d5000 (1)
 #2

A transaction with a timelock means that the transaction itself cannot confirm before the timelock (either a block height or a timestamp). However a conflicting transaction (one that spends the same inputs) could be created and that transaction can still confirm.

In order to make coins that are unspendable until after a certain time or block height, you will need to create an address that uses OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY. Only coins sent to such an address are guaranteed to be only spendable after a certain time.

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November 17, 2017, 01:37:46 AM
Last edit: March 20, 2020, 12:58:07 AM by TryNinja
Merited by eternalgloom (5), hugeblack (4), ABCbits (3), Rath_ (3), LoyceV (2), hosseinimr93 (2), vit05 (2), pooya87 (1), BitMaxz (1), tranthidung (1), Husna QA (1), Heisenberg_Hunter (1), th3nolo (1)
 #3

You can use Coinbin to do that. I had one a few months ago and it's quite easy to create/spend your coins after the chosen period.

To create the Time Locked Address:
1. Go to Coinb.in;
2. New -> Time Locked Address.
3. Enter your address public key (the one you require to sign the transaction and be able to spend the coins);
4. Enter the date-time or blockheight you want to release the coins.
5. Submit and save the Redeem Script (don't lose that or you won't be able to spend your coins in the future);
6. Send the coins you want to keep locked to the Address generated.

After the chosen period, you will be able to spend your coins.
1. Go to Coinb.in;
2. New -> Transaction;
3. Paste your Redeem Script and click Load (it's going to show every input available to be spent);
4. Paste the address you want to send the coins to at the "Address" field and the amount in the "Amount" field. The remaining funds will be used as fee. E.g: If your address has 0.015BTC, you can put 0.014BTC in the "Amount" field and the fee will be 0.001BTC (0.015 - 0.014);
5. Submit and copy the raw transaction;
6. Go to the "Sign" tab (at Coinb.in);
7. Paste the private key from the address you choose when creating the Time Locked Address.
8. Paste the raw transaction you just created.
9. Submit, copy the signed transaction and push it to the network (you can do it in the Broadcast tab).
10. Transaction sent!

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eternalgloom (OP)
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November 17, 2017, 11:04:04 AM
 #4

Thanks to both of you, using Coinbin it's fairly easy and I had apparently missed it on the Bitcoin wiki page about timestamps, so I'm glad I asked here.
I've downloaded the page on Coinbin and successfully created a short-term timelocked transaction to test things out.

I've read that it isn't too wise to lock transactions into the far future, is it really not advisable use OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY for, say, 5 years?

Source: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Timelock#Far-future_locks

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March 16, 2023, 05:24:27 PM
Last edit: March 16, 2023, 06:45:14 PM by Learn Bitcoin
Merited by o_e_l_e_o (4)
 #5

Sorry for replying in an old thread. I was looking for something like this (Not the same, but similar). I used to use Trust wallet and some centralized exchanges as a wallet. I always tried to hold Bitcoin. But, I ended up spending them on gambling websites or selling them to buy goods. So, I thought I would send a small amount of Bitcoin weekly (say $10/week). I won't spend them in the next five or eight years. The problem is, Whenever I need money, I sell my Bitcoins and regret it later. So, to get rid of it. I was thinking, Is it possible to create such a wallet where I won't have access to spend the money until a specific date? I searched for it, and I found How To Create Time-locked Transactions with Bitcoin. The author claims it's explained version of TryNinja's time-lock explanation on Bitcointalk, and he referred to this thread.

I had never used Electrum before. I downloaded Electrum and installed it. But, Even after reading the explained version. I am confused as hell. I am still wondering if it meets my needs. Can I send $10 every week to the locked wallet? Or it's just a one-time transaction?

At least I need to figure out the answer to this question for now. I have several questions spinning in my mind. Let's not ask everything at once. I will get more confused.

Edit: Seems not many people visit this section. I will write in a more crowded section.

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March 16, 2023, 06:44:48 PM
Merited by DaveF (2), ABCbits (1), Learn Bitcoin (1)
 #6

I am still wondering if it meets my needs. Can I send $10 every week to the locked wallet? Or it's just a one-time transaction?
Yes, absolutely. I've skimmed through the guide you linked and I can't see any major issues. It will create an address which you can send as many transaction as you like to, and none of the coins sent to that address can be redeemed until after the date or block height that you have chosen. The most important parts are to ensure you are downloading the legitimate versions of Electrum and Coinbin (i.e. download them from Github and verify their signatures), do the whole process on an offline (ideally permanently airgapped) device to protect your private keys, and to save the redeem script that you generate.

All you are using Electrum for here is generating a keypair to use in the Coinbin script. You could use any good piece of software, such as Bitcoin Core, to generate a keypair if you prefer.

I would also suggest that something like $50 a month is probably better than $10 a week, otherwise you will end up spending a large amount on transaction fees when you need to consolidate all your small inputs.

Edit: Seems not many people visit this section. I will write in a more crowded section.
For a technical question such as this, you are exponentially more likely to get useful replies rather than generic spam by posting in this board than by posting in a board such as Bitcoin Discussion.
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March 16, 2023, 07:03:16 PM
 #7

I am still wondering if it meets my needs. Can I send $10 every week to the locked wallet? Or it's just a one-time transaction?
Yes, absolutely. I've skimmed through the guide you linked and I can't see any major issues. It will create an address which you can send as many transaction as you like to, and none of the coins sent to that address can be redeemed until after the date or block height that you have chosen. The most important parts are to ensure you are downloading the legitimate versions of Electrum and Coinbin (i.e. download them from Github and verify their signatures), do the whole process on an offline (ideally permanently airgapped) device to protect your private keys, and to save the redeem script that you generate.

All you are using Electrum for here is generating a keypair to use in the Coinbin script. You could use any good piece of software, such as Bitcoin Core, to generate a keypair if you prefer.

I would also suggest that something like $50 a month is probably better than $10 a week, otherwise you will end up spending a large amount on transaction fees when you need to consolidate all your small inputs.

Oh, Thank you  Huh Huh
Leo? Oe Leo? A bit puzzled. Let me say buddy instead.
Sending multiple times in a locked wallet is my main priority as I will try to accumulate and hold. Yeah, it will be good if I spend less on fees. Once again, I can spend those coins on gambling casinos during the month I accumulate. That's why I need a locked wallet. You may understand how stupid I am.

I downloaded an Electrum wallet from Electrum.org for windows. It's installed fine. When I tried to create a wallet, it stuck in the last step where I have to accept the TOS and I can't click on Accept button. There are two other buttons at the top right corner. One is the close button and another is the Question mark. When I click on the Question mark, it load for a few sec pops up an error saying (ah, I forgot the message. I will edit once I will be on my desktop).

Note that the Terms and Condition page is blank.

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March 16, 2023, 07:05:14 PM
 #8

... Can I send $10 every week to the locked wallet? Or it's just a one-time transaction?
At least I need to figure out the answer to this question for now. I have several questions spinning in my mind. Let's not ask everything at once. I will get more confused.
...

Keep in mind that years in the future if you have been sending small amounts every weeks for years the fees could be a large amount.
50 +/-  inputs a year trying to go out in a few TX are going to cost you especially if you are selling because the price has gone up. A bit of a clogged mempool and...ouch.

You see that now and then now when people are moving a lot of small inputs that they accumulated over the years.

-Dave

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March 16, 2023, 07:13:39 PM
 #9

... Can I send $10 every week to the locked wallet? Or it's just a one-time transaction?
At least I need to figure out the answer to this question for now. I have several questions spinning in my mind. Let's not ask everything at once. I will get more confused.
...

Keep in mind that years in the future if you have been sending small amounts every weeks for years the fees could be a large amount.
50 +/-  inputs a year trying to go out in a few TX are going to cost you especially if you are selling because the price has gone up. A bit of a clogged mempool and...ouch.

You see that now and then now when people are moving a lot of small inputs that they accumulated over the years.

-Dave

Yeah. That's true. I have to control myself a little more.
Do you know if coinb.in will be able to generate a segwit address or not? Segwit transactions are the cheapest I believe.

One more question, If I send my coins to a locked wallet. They will get a network confirmation. Right? Or maybe those transactions won't get confirmed until my set date or block height?

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March 16, 2023, 07:33:59 PM
Last edit: March 16, 2023, 07:46:08 PM by DaveF
Merited by o_e_l_e_o (4)
 #10

1) They can do segwit. https://coinb.in/#newSegWit BUT NOT FOR A TIME LOCKED.

2) The TX are sent but the address you are sending to cannot send till the time / block has passed.

<morbid thought>
If you set it too far in the future, plan as to what happens / who has access if you are not around.
Yeah, I know not a happy thought but something you do have to consider.


-Dave

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o_e_l_e_o
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March 16, 2023, 07:38:49 PM
 #11

Leo? Oe Leo? A bit puzzled. Let me say buddy instead.
Leo. Tongue

I downloaded an Electrum wallet from Electrum.org for windows. It's installed fine. When I tried to create a wallet, it stuck in the last step where I have to accept the TOS and I can't click on Accept button.
There is no ToS to accept when creating a standard Electrum wallet. Are you trying to create a two-factor authentication wallet by mistake?

Do you know if coinb.in will be able to generate a segwit address or not? Segwit transactions are the cheapest I believe.
It won't generate a segwit timelocked address, no.

One more question, If I send my coins to a locked wallet. They will get a network confirmation. Right?
Correct. Transactions which send coins to your timelocked wallet will be like any other transaction and will confirm normally.
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March 16, 2023, 07:45:35 PM
 #12

It won't generate a segwit timelocked address, no.

You are correct, I thought it would and then did not read fully.

-Dave

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March 17, 2023, 02:04:10 AM
 #13

Using Locktime for inheritance planning, backups or gifts

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March 17, 2023, 06:53:46 AM
 #14

If you set it too far in the future, plan as to what happens / who has access if you are not around.
Yeah, I know not a happy thought but something you do have to consider.
-Dave

I plan to accumulate Bitcoin for five to eight years as I believe this is something I can consider a Gem. We are facing Inflation, and I survived because I had some foreign currency. I do a remote job and still, get a salary from abroad. Before the inflation, it was like 1:2. Now it's 1:3. So I am getting more fiat when I exchange them. This time I didn't get affected by inflation too much. But who knows? The other country could face higher inflation than us, and we can get f**ed up. Bitcoin will touch at least 500K in the next eight years.

So, Not for too long. I am in my 30's. Expecting to be around for at least a couple of years.
If I die before that, that's bad luck.
I downloaded an Electrum wallet from Electrum.org for windows. It's installed fine. When I tried to create a wallet, it stuck in the last step where I have to accept the TOS and I can't click on Accept button.
There is no ToS to accept when creating a standard Electrum wallet. Are you trying to create a two-factor authentication wallet by mistake?

By Mistake? Yes, I was trying to create a two-factor authentication wallet willingly because I thought it would be more secure. The error says: Could Not Retrieve Terms of service: ErrorConnectingServer(TimeoutError())

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March 17, 2023, 08:49:37 AM
Merited by ABCbits (1)
 #15

By Mistake? Yes, I was trying to create a two-factor authentication wallet willingly because I thought it would be more secure. The error says: Could Not Retrieve Terms of service: ErrorConnectingServer(TimeoutError())
There are some small security benefits to using a 2FA wallet, but it comes with an additional cost in fees (both larger transaction fees and fees to the third party TrustedCoin), as well as a loss of privacy due to the reliance on said third party. Such a set up can be better achieved by making your own multi-sig wallet between (for example) your computer and your phone, or by using a hardware wallet.

However, none of that matters here. In this case you are simply exporting a single private key in order to make your timelocked address. Any 2FA system will be bypassed by doing this, so it achieves nothing.
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March 17, 2023, 12:00:57 PM
Merited by o_e_l_e_o (4)
 #16

By Mistake? Yes, I was trying to create a two-factor authentication wallet willingly because I thought it would be more secure. The error says: Could Not Retrieve Terms of service: ErrorConnectingServer(TimeoutError())
There are some small security benefits to using a 2FA wallet, but it comes with an additional cost in fees (both larger transaction fees and fees to the third party TrustedCoin)

For reference, the cost is 0.005BTC (for 20 outgoing TX) and 0.00125BTC (for 100 outgoing TX)[1]. And for 5-8 years, you need to consider whether TrustedCoin still rnu their service in the future.

as well as a loss of privacy due to the reliance on said third party.

Additionally, their privacy policy state their company is U.S. based and use some third party[2].

[1] https://trustedcoin.com/#/faq
[2] https://trustedcoin.com/#/privacy

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March 17, 2023, 05:10:17 PM
 #17

Thanks for the info and the help, guys.
I am running a Full Node. But, Not 24/7. I have to synchronize a little bit to be up to date.
Not sure which one will be better to try. Electrum or Bitcoin Core?


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March 18, 2023, 09:30:19 AM
 #18

Thanks for the info and the help, guys.
I am running a Full Node. But, Not 24/7. I have to synchronize a little bit to be up to date.
Not sure which one will be better to try. Electrum or Bitcoin Core?
Doesn't make much difference. As I explained above, for this specific purpose all you are using your Electrum or Core software for is to generate a key pair to use in Coinbin's tool. You don't actually need the wallet functionality of Electrum or Core whatsoever. Both will create cryptographically secure keys, so the only real difference will be in how you back them up. If you create the key pair in Electrum, then you will have a seed phrase which you can write down on paper and store physically, and you could even delete the Electrum wallet file once you are done, knowing you can restore your private key from the seed phrase. If you create the key pair in Core, then you won't get a seed phrase and instead will have a wallet.dat file which you can encrypt and store electronically.

In both cases you will use your generated public key on Coinbin to create your timelocked address, and in both cases you will import your private key to an offline version of Coinbin to sign any outgoing transactions. So the wallet software you used will be irrelevant at this point.

The other thing I would suggest would be to test all this out before you set up your main timelocked address. Create a key pair and set up a timelocked address with a timelock in the near future, say a week or so. Send a small amount of coins to this address, check that you cannot spend from it, wait until the timelock has passed, and then check that you can recover the coins. You don't want to be in a situation in 5 years' time where you find you've spent years sending coins to an address you cannot redeem!
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March 18, 2023, 02:32:42 PM
Merited by o_e_l_e_o (4)
 #19

The other thing I would suggest would be to test all this out before you set up your main timelocked address. Create a key pair and set up a timelocked address with a timelock in the near future, say a week or so. Send a small amount of coins to this address, check that you cannot spend from it, wait until the timelock has passed, and then check that you can recover the coins. You don't want to be in a situation in 5 years' time where you find you've spent years sending coins to an address you cannot redeem!

Hi Leo.
I think I got it. I created a Standard Electrum wallet and followed the tutorial. It seems like I have done everything I nedeed.
I also tried to redeem it, and I am getting an error for now (because it's locked). The coins should be unlocked in the next couple of hours.
I am excited about it. This is the screen I am getting now;



I tried searching on the forum to see if anyone had tried it. All I am getting is someone named Get-Paid.com tried this a couple of years ago and faced too many problems unlocking it. They had issues with coinb.in doesn't accept segWit Address. But, for me. It's accepted my segWit address. I will update you once I am done. Another thing is Some legendaries discouraged using this method in this thread; https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5214411.msg53504875#msg53504875

BTW, I got the term of your username. O is the middle point. Now I can read to both sides, and it will pronounce the same  Grin

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March 19, 2023, 08:32:35 AM
 #20

I would greatly benefit from such a system. If I save something. Then I promise. I will not spend this money again. But after a few days I spent that money for my little needs. If something like your idea comes to fruition, I can make a long-term plan. Then after some time I will collect a big amount. I can do any big project with that. I especially would benefit greatly from having such a system.
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