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Author Topic: SPV wallets and forks  (Read 707 times)
BillyBobZorton
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November 17, 2017, 04:22:43 PM
 #1

If an user is saving their bitcoins on Electrum and an contentious fork happens, what determines what end of the chain will be followed? Does it all comes down to what the developers want to do with the software?

Shouldn't a system be developed that tells you a fork happened and lets you what chain to follow, or could this end in a total mess?

This is why I have never liked SPV wallets, you are the mercy of someone else when these things happen.
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November 17, 2017, 04:38:06 PM
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This is why I have never liked SPV wallets, you are the mercy of someone else when these things happen.

You are at the same mercy with a full node wallet.

The wallet (full node or otherwise) will follow the chain that the developer programmed it to follow.  In either case, you are still in control, as you can choose NOT to use the software that you disagree with.

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November 17, 2017, 07:06:11 PM
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This is why I have never liked SPV wallets, you are the mercy of someone else when these things happen.

You are at the same mercy with a full node wallet.

The wallet (full node or otherwise) will follow the chain that the developer programmed it to follow.  In either case, you are still in control, as you can choose NOT to use the software that you disagree with.

That's right, but I see SPV wallet devs like Electrum more easily to corrupt than Core developers when it comes to following a forked chain, there's also less people developing in Electrum. So an attacker could bribe Electrum devs into having supported the segwit2x chain in the past for example, while I don't see this happening with Core.

And also generally SPV wallets suck in my book, I agree with what Luke Jr has to say about SPV wallets mostly.
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November 17, 2017, 08:12:12 PM
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Yeah... I mean, who wants a wallet that takes up less than 50 megs of HDD space, loads up and syncs in a matter of seconds... when you can commit 180+GB of disk storage and a week of your life to syncing Bitcoin Core? Roll Eyes

Lightweight SPV wallets have their place and their use cases... just like full nodes, brain wallets, web wallets, paper wallets, hardware wallets and mobile wallets. Just because they don't suit your particular needs, does not make them inherently bad.

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November 17, 2017, 09:27:47 PM
 #5

If an user is saving their bitcoins on Electrum and an contentious fork happens, what determines what end of the chain will be followed? Does it all comes down to what the developers want to do with the software?

Older versions of Electrum (prior to version 2.9) follow the chain that their server follows. People can run Electrum servers on either fork. I think most people randomly choose servers, and those that do so are at the mercy of the server they connect to.

Shouldn't a system be developed that tells you a fork happened and lets you what chain to follow, or could this end in a total mess?

This is why I have never liked SPV wallets, you are the mercy of someone else when these things happen.

Electrum (version 2.9 and higher) is able to detect consensus failures between servers. It lets users select the branch they prefer. I don't think this has ever been used on the mainnet before, so hopefully it works correctly as tested when the time comes.

The bigger issue is that a contentious fork won't include replay protection. So it's not enough just to choose which branch to follow -- that can result in losing coins on the other chain. Many users will want to split their coins.

BillyBobZorton
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November 18, 2017, 01:13:26 AM
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Yeah... I mean, who wants a wallet that takes up less than 50 megs of HDD space, loads up and syncs in a matter of seconds... when you can commit 180+GB of disk storage and a week of your life to syncing Bitcoin Core? Roll Eyes

Lightweight SPV wallets have their place and their use cases... just like full nodes, brain wallets, web wallets, paper wallets, hardware wallets and mobile wallets. Just because they don't suit your particular needs, does not make them inherently bad.

Sure, SPV wallets like Electrum (basically only Electrum, which is the only one I know with solid devs) may be a good entry point for newbies, but I don't like at all the idea of a seed being able to spawn out of nowhere my entire private key history. Don't you see this as a risk?

I would rather hold my keys on a wallet.dat file, where all the private keys are separated, so an attacker would need to actually reach the file and then decrypt it (good luck with that). Not to mention the comfortable peace of mind of validating your own transactions.
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November 18, 2017, 02:05:21 AM
 #7

This is why I have never liked SPV wallets, you are the mercy of someone else when these things happen.

You are at the same mercy with a full node wallet.

The wallet (full node or otherwise) will follow the chain that the developer programmed it to follow.  In either case, you are still in control, as you can choose NOT to use the software that you disagree with.

That's right, but I see SPV wallet devs like Electrum more easily to corrupt than Core developers when it comes to following a forked chain, there's also less people developing in Electrum. So an attacker could bribe Electrum devs into having supported the segwit2x chain in the past for example, while I don't see this happening with Core.

And also generally SPV wallets suck in my book, I agree with what Luke Jr has to say about SPV wallets mostly.

The point is; don't use spv wallet (electrum) as the developers easily to corrupt and bribed? We have serious allegations here.
When bch hard fork occurred, people who have bitcoin in electrum wallet could easily get bch by installing electron, even though it's dangerous as the developers remain anonymous and uses the name "Jonald Fyookball". However, people who keep their bitcoin in exchanges which supports bch, credited bch as well without have to do anything.
So, how about b2x? Which wallet is the best to claim free b2x? I'm not so sure right now.

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November 18, 2017, 03:49:56 AM
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Sure, SPV wallets like Electrum (basically only Electrum, which is the only one I know with solid devs) may be a good entry point for newbies, but I don't like at all the idea of a seed being able to spawn out of nowhere my entire private key history. Don't you see this as a risk?
You realise that since v0.13 Bitcoin Core has, by default, been a seed based HD wallet right?

It may not give you a "12 word seed mnemonic" to write down, but nonetheless, all the addresses are generated from a seed.

It's just as likely that someone will randomly spawn your Bitcoin Core wallet as they will an Electrum wallet... Which, in both cases, is so miniscule that the chance of this happening, is for all intents and purposes, ZERO.

There was a thread post somewhere where someone did the math... You're more likely to get hit by lightning while taking a crap, once a year, every year.. For 17 years in a row! Tongue


So, how about b2x? Which wallet is the best to claim free b2x? I'm not so sure right now.
That's completely irrelevant... B2x got "cancelled", so there is nothing to claim... Roll Eyes

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November 18, 2017, 04:30:52 AM
 #9

So, how about b2x? Which wallet is the best to claim free b2x? I'm not so sure right now.
That's completely irrelevant... B2x got "cancelled", so there is nothing to claim... Roll Eyes

Looks like I missed the news, last time a group called Bitpico claim 2x hard fork still alive.
Yesterday, some people said hard fork happening, coinbase halt bitcoin trading due to b2x hard fork, and I've read some articles regarding 2x hard fork. But, just realized there's no any sign of b2x developers. https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/now-segwit2x-hard-fork-has-really-failed-activate/
NO2X?

Despite the seeming failure of SegWit2x to take off in any way, it should be noted that there is technically no way to declare a fork like SegWit2x officially “dead” or “failed.”

While unlikely, it’s always possible that the SegWit2x hard fork could proceed at some point in the future. In fact, there is no way to tell whether the SegWit2x chain is currently being mined with a little bit of hash power right now, and it is strictly impossible to foresee whether it will be mined later on. Perhaps a SegWit2x block will be found a day from now, a week from now or even ten years from now, at which point SegWit2x and B2X will technically come into existence.

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November 18, 2017, 08:59:25 AM
 #10

So, how about b2x? Which wallet is the best to claim free b2x? I'm not so sure right now.
That's completely irrelevant... B2x got "cancelled", so there is nothing to claim... Roll Eyes

Just a technicality here, but it doesn't matter whether it got "cancelled." The forking client was in the wild; there are still btc1 nodes online as we speak. The reason that the fork didn't occur is that the btc1 client broke. All btc1 nodes apparently got stuck at height #494,782 - 2 blocks before the fork was supposed to happen. I'm not sure that a block would have been mined once the fork occurred anyway, given the high difficulty and lack of user/service support.

I actually got "YOB2X" tokens credited to my account at 1:1 to my BTC on Yobit. I'm assuming this is due to B2X. People are buying it at 0.03-0.04 BTC for some bizarre reason.

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November 18, 2017, 01:08:11 PM
 #11

So, how about b2x? Which wallet is the best to claim free b2x? I'm not so sure right now.
That's completely irrelevant... B2x got "cancelled", so there is nothing to claim... Roll Eyes

Just a technicality here, but it doesn't matter whether it got "cancelled." The forking client was in the wild; there are still btc1 nodes online as we speak. The reason that the fork didn't occur is that the btc1 client broke. All btc1 nodes apparently got stuck at height #494,782 - 2 blocks before the fork was supposed to happen. I'm not sure that a block would have been mined once the fork occurred anyway, given the high difficulty and lack of user/service support.

I actually got "YOB2X" tokens credited to my account at 1:1 to my BTC on Yobit. I'm assuming this is due to B2X. People are buying it at 0.03-0.04 BTC for some bizarre reason.

Okay I'll byte.

How do I get my free Yob2x?
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November 18, 2017, 02:33:01 PM
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Earnings on bitcoin are becoming more popular, with every day more and more crypto currency appears on the market, it is necessary to be very vigilant and to choose for yourself an investment wisely.
BillyBobZorton
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November 20, 2017, 02:45:49 PM
 #13

So, how about b2x? Which wallet is the best to claim free b2x? I'm not so sure right now.
That's completely irrelevant... B2x got "cancelled", so there is nothing to claim... Roll Eyes

Just a technicality here, but it doesn't matter whether it got "cancelled." The forking client was in the wild; there are still btc1 nodes online as we speak. The reason that the fork didn't occur is that the btc1 client broke. All btc1 nodes apparently got stuck at height #494,782 - 2 blocks before the fork was supposed to happen. I'm not sure that a block would have been mined once the fork occurred anyway, given the high difficulty and lack of user/service support.

I actually got "YOB2X" tokens credited to my account at 1:1 to my BTC on Yobit. I'm assuming this is due to B2X. People are buying it at 0.03-0.04 BTC for some bizarre reason.

Okay I'll byte.

How do I get my free Yob2x?

I don't think you can. As far as I know, there is no segwit2x chain because segwit2x failed to activate. Even if it was cancelled, some people were still going to mine it, which would result on a split, but the software failed, now some guy here says that garzik fixed it.

My question is: Is anyone mining segwit2x? and is any exchange listing the actual coin post-split? (I yhink YOB2X are just futures, so you would have needed to be holding the coins on yobit to get these tokens).
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November 21, 2017, 12:04:21 AM
 #14

If an user is saving their bitcoins on Electrum and an contentious fork happens, what determines what end of the chain will be followed? Does it all comes down to what the developers want to do with the software?

Shouldn't a system be developed that tells you a fork happened and lets you what chain to follow, or could this end in a total mess?

This is why I have never liked SPV wallets, you are the mercy of someone else when these things happen.

SPV look amazing.. they are the ones with the best GUI you see most of the time.. but as I have learned in the space, its much better to have your own bitcoin node. So I continue using CORE and all the other wallets that download the full chain.

maybe we can all get together and design an exodus like wallet that holds the Nodes to the currencies it supports.

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