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Author Topic: DragonMint T1 16TH/S halongmining.com  (Read 84056 times)
eissug
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April 11, 2018, 01:42:23 PM
 #1861

I was a little concerned when I heard Samsung was making SHA256 ASICS.  Hanguk mansae!
189 10nm chips per unit...  vs 104 16nm chips in the 841.
I expected more of an efficiency increase, especially from Korea...!  I hope it wasn't Samsung's fault.   Grin
Why?
The Foundry part of Samsung is no different than TSMC, or GloFo. They will make any chip for anyone with the money, in this case its SHA256 ASICs for Bitmain, Halong and Ebang. They used to make chips for BW, remember?

My experience was only related to the support and quality that they provide a-Si customers.  Koreans do everything at an extreme level and have a huge competitive spirit.  The USA invented auto-tune, Koreans took it to level 11.  I thought when Samsung got into SHA256 everyone else would be in trouble!  : )

I seriously was worried about my investment in Canaan 841s when I heard the news.  I didn't remember about BW.  It seemed like they were hyping this all of a sudden, so I assumed they felt something special.

Assuming it is true that the Innosilicon T1 uses Samsung chips I am truly confused with my continued support of Canaan.  Wink
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April 11, 2018, 01:48:34 PM
 #1862

I dont mean to be a wet blanket but there is no notable increase in hashrate in Slush and Ck pool. Slush and CK pools are the only pools that can take dragonmints.
Hashrate for slush should go through the roof it they sold alot, especially considering how small slush is to the total hashrate.
Furthermore, alot of slush and CK pool hash will be due to cheap S9s flooding market.
Thus, the logical conclusion is that they didnt sell much miners.

That is specious reasoning at best...  They may very well have sold lots of gear and:
it's just not delivered yet.
it's still "burning in" on their own pool #BFL!
there sales were to mainly enterprise level companies who are running on "non-public" pools

With such limited information it seems impossible to accurately asses their sales volume.

I've been preaching about how bad a deal it is to be an "Investomer" since 2013.  It's not a popular opinion here in DEADWOOD.  The risk/reward ratio for being an investomer is soooooooo absolutely lopsided (and in case it actually needs to be mention it is NOT lopsided in the miners favour...) that I am constantly amazed how many people are so happy to line up to be one.

I love the term “investomer”.  I think this is one of the peculiar aspects of Bitcoin mining equipment manufacturing.  Everyone sees a prototype and hype surrounding and they are quick to fund millions of dollars towards “production” well in advance essential giving quick payday to anyone who participated..  Yet, time and Time again that risk has played out very badly.  

Why not make true longterm investment into the development of the unit itself or startup and receive benefit for years off single investment?  Instead trust is placed in an unknown team with a prototype.  Why not put your trust in an outstanding team with wonderful reputation that could provide years of steady profits and access to equipment at cost? 95% of this thread and the risk could have been mitigated, but it sure makes for a great story and is a lot of fun Smiley
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April 11, 2018, 01:52:38 PM
 #1863

Samsung 10nm not equivalent to Intel 10nm.  Keep that in mind.  Samsung seems to have been using these labels loosely.  Also, Samsung has been aweful proud of making these ASICs.

Can you explain more about the difference?  The publicity is what got me thinking.  There was a huge bump in interest in bitcoin last winter in Korea, probably over the stability of their currency due to the DPRK...  You can buy bitcoins on in the subway terminals too!  In little plastic boxes!   Cheesy

Are you speculating that the boost feature might only take up more space that could otherwise be used by more cores?  What is the point if it doesn't make anything faster?  As they proudly state on the front page of the web site, the designs are not based on simulations.  Maybe they never tried it without?  Smiley
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April 11, 2018, 02:01:06 PM
 #1864

Samsung 10nm not equivalent to Intel 10nm.  Keep that in mind.  Samsung seems to have been using these labels loosely.  Also, Samsung has been aweful proud of making these ASICs.

Can you explain more about the difference?  The publicity is what got me thinking.  There was a huge bump in interest in bitcoin last winter in Korea, probably over the stability of their currency due to the DPRK...  You can buy bitcoins on in the subway terminals too!  In little plastic boxes!   Cheesy

Are you speculating that the boost feature might only take up more space that could otherwise be used by more cores?  What is the point if it doesn't make anything faster?  As they proudly state on the front page of the web site, the designs are not based on simulations.  Maybe they never tried it without?  Smiley

Please refer to this thread about SHA256 IC.  It has some discussion regarding ASICboost
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2676595.msg33374953#msg33374953

If you want to google Scotten Jones at IC Knowledge and pull up his reports you will find all the information you need regarding process nodes and normalization.
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April 11, 2018, 02:18:07 PM
 #1865

I dont mean to be a wet blanket but there is no notable increase in hashrate in Slush and Ck pool. Slush and CK pools are the only pools that can take dragonmints.
Hashrate for slush should go through the roof it they sold alot, especially considering how small slush is to the total hashrate.
Furthermore, alot of slush and CK pool hash will be due to cheap S9s flooding market.
Thus, the logical conclusion is that they didnt sell much miners.

That is specious reasoning at best...  They may very well have sold lots of gear and:
it's just not delivered yet.
it's still "burning in" on their own pool #BFL!
there sales were to mainly enterprise level companies who are running on "non-public" pools

With such limited information it seems impossible to accurately asses their sales volume.

I've been preaching about how bad a deal it is to be an "Investomer" since 2013.  It's not a popular opinion here in DEADWOOD.  The risk/reward ratio for being an investomer is soooooooo absolutely lopsided (and in case it actually needs to be mention it is NOT lopsided in the miners favour...) that I am constantly amazed how many people are so happy to line up to be one.

It is good reasoning actually. Think about it.
The batch 1 barely made a dent in slush. And slush is 3% of total hashrate or less?
Slush is 3.246 EH and btc difficulty is now 3.46T. I doubt batch 2 and 3 will do much either. We shall see I guess.

If they sold any decent amount, slush and CK should have huge increases because ONLY these 2 pools can take in dragonmints.
If thats the case, when they are delivered later, there should be a major increase in those 2 pools hashrate. The major pools are known as it is.

lol. They didnt sell to any enterprise companies I believe. I know the claims they make. Their telegram back then has like 600 people only then and many were toxic. No company will buy alot of untested units from some new and unknown company. No one hands over so much btc just like that. It is just stupid. Why would they be able to get into the industrial market like Bitfury when they cant even crack the smaller market lol?

Agree with u on investomer. Nice term Smiley

Selling 100 dollar coupons (8units expire 11th June, 14 units expire 1st july) and 125 dollar coupon (2 unit exp 30th June). Selling at 20% of value
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April 11, 2018, 02:27:29 PM
 #1866

lol. They didnt sell to any enterprise companies. I know the claims they make. Their telegram back then has like 600 people only then and many were toxic. No company will buy alot of untested units from some new and unknown company. It is just stupid.

if you ever were at least one toe in mining operations whale biz you prob will know that usually one invites whale operations for demos way before the asic is announced in public, secure the contracts and later of course those guys get units first as well

who is this for example https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/address/3ACjzvyr3PdPCnAcAi2Nfw9RXcm9SVmtR9 mining with AB since mid March?

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April 11, 2018, 03:07:01 PM
Last edit: April 12, 2018, 03:26:44 AM by frodocooper
 #1867

Good numbers short term, not really. My S9 pulls 16-20Th for the first few mins. It just does not calculate properly at first. It will also take some time to stabilize the numbers.

http://ckpool.org/users/1JdC6Xg3ajT3rge3FgPNSYYFpmf53Vbtje
Pool side number is zero for 1 to 5 mins.
2.96 T for 1 day. Wat happened? U turned it off?

http://ckpool.org/#/user  . I added your address 1JdC6Xg3ajT3rge3FgPNSYYFpmf53Vbtje into that link.
Your last share was 8 hours ago.

to loud to sleep  it is back up

so far tests have been  not so good.

but I am now doing a third psu.

the myrig halong psu  did 1680
the delta 2400 psu   did 1610

the newest is an hp  2450  watt  https://www.ebay.com/itm/100V-240V-2450W-Power-Supply-for-Antminer-S9-T9-S7-L3-Mining-94-Percent-Efficie/122923683959?

just fired it up I also figured a way to keep it very cool.

gui has it at 15.98 th at 11 minute

https://i.imgur.com/dwgeUsZ.png

so far it seems to pull a lot of power   1610 to 1680 watts   and be just short of 16th on the better psus

the myrig  it did  15.5 after 2 hour test. and 1680 watts
the delta it did    15.7 after 2 hour test   1610 watts


the hp test is only 20 minutes  15.86th


you tube link of today's test

  note I will do this for 2 hours then I will do firmware then come back and test for 2 hours with new firm ware.

Your video will be live at: https://youtu.be/oR9fwKYIb-s



Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to remove a nested quote.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
fanatic26
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April 11, 2018, 03:25:56 PM
 #1868

So it seems the efficiency is just barely on par with Bitmains 2 year old s9 tech. After all that bragging about it being the most efficient miner in the world, Halong is looking even more silly now.

Stop buying industrial miners, running them at home, and then complaining about the noise.
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April 11, 2018, 03:37:01 PM
 #1869

It is good reasoning actually. Think about it.
The batch 1 barely made a dent in slush. And slush is 3% of total hashrate or less?
Slush is 3.246 EH and btc difficulty is now 3.46T. I doubt batch 2 and 3 will do much either. We shall see I guess.

If they sold any decent amount, slush and CK should have huge increases because ONLY these 2 pools can take in dragonmints.
If thats the case, when they are delivered later, there should be a major increase in those 2 pools hashrate. The major pools are known as it is.

lol. They didnt sell to any enterprise companies I believe. I know the claims they make. Their telegram back then has like 600 people only then and many were toxic. No company will buy alot of untested units from some new and unknown company. No one hands over so much btc just like that. It is just stupid. Why would they be able to get into the industrial market like Bitfury when they cant even crack the smaller market lol?

Agree with u on investomer. Nice term Smiley

You assume a lot. How do you know that none of the blocks solved by "unknown" pools aren't T1 pools we don't know about.  Do you take their word for it that it ONLY works on those two pools or does it ONLY work on those 2 PUBLICLY known pools?  Do we assume Halong has a farm somewhere?  Where are they mining on slush or a private one of their own??

You also assume that a client showing up with 1 or 2 or 5 million dollars to invest is treated the same as joe six pack home miner.  Believe me when I say that deals done at that high level generally speaking are negotiations and not just terms dictated on a website LOL.  When FOMO was in full swing the manufacture has the "hand" in negotiations, as the mining market shifts so does the "hand" during negotiations.

All in all your assumptions might be 100% accurate but equally as true is that a number of other "reasonable" arguments exist and therefor it seems impossible to accurately predict their sales volumes.

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Thetaj
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April 11, 2018, 03:38:32 PM
Last edit: April 12, 2018, 03:28:33 AM by frodocooper
 #1870

to loud to sleep  it is back up

so far tests have been  not so good.

[...]

So......so far every test I have seen have seen power efficiencies pretty much on par with or a little worst than the S9 14ths.

Think of it this way. At least the era of the Toaster S7s are coming to an end. At least the environmentalists will finally get off our backs!



Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to trim the quote from philipma1957.
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April 11, 2018, 03:39:02 PM
 #1871

So it seems the efficiency is just barely on par with Bitmains 2 year old s9 tech. After all that bragging about it being the most efficient miner in the world, Halong is looking even more silly now.

well on the first firmware the efficiency is poor

as tested on 3 different psu's  and 2 separate meters

there is a new firmware I will get to it in a bit.

.  Note I have  a  second demo coming  today according to dhl

so I will check firmware on the new one and do a direct comparison.

after 42 minutes  hash dropped to 15.68th

power is 1729 watts on the hp.

I do have multiple meters and it could be this particular meter is 50 watts on the hot side.
gui at 44 minutes

https://i.imgur.com/QXFwiBo.png


all tests  will be for 2 hours.  as power used does not shift a lot. 

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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April 11, 2018, 04:09:52 PM
Last edit: April 12, 2018, 03:29:43 AM by frodocooper
 #1872

please be sure to test the updated firmware as well. your miner should offer an update in the backend section.

trying to see how to do it. as I am willing to try to do it.



Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to remove a nested quote.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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April 11, 2018, 04:23:13 PM
 #1873

I love the term “investomer”.  I think this is one of the peculiar aspects of Bitcoin mining equipment manufacturing.  Everyone sees a prototype and hype surrounding and they are quick to fund millions of dollars towards “production” well in advance essential giving quick payday to anyone who participated..  Yet, time and Time again that risk has played out very badly.  

Why not make true longterm investment into the development of the unit itself or startup and receive benefit for years off single investment?  Instead trust is placed in an unknown team with a prototype.  Why not put your trust in an outstanding team with wonderful reputation that could provide years of steady profits and access to equipment at cost? 95% of this thread and the risk could have been mitigated, but it sure makes for a great story and is a lot of fun Smiley

Interest free loans are a hell of a drug (and a very risky way to start a business).  The law (in the US/CAN) have very clear definitions of what a customer is and what an investor is.  Try as they might many a company has tried to word fuck their way around this, it doesn't work ask BFL et al LOLOLOL.

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April 11, 2018, 04:32:47 PM
 #1874

lol. They didnt sell to any enterprise companies. I know the claims they make. Their telegram back then has like 600 people only then and many were toxic. No company will buy alot of untested units from some new and unknown company. It is just stupid.

if you ever were at least one toe in mining operations whale biz you prob will know that usually one invites whale operations for demos way before the asic is announced in public, secure the contracts and later of course those guys get units first as well

who is this for example https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/address/3ACjzvyr3PdPCnAcAi2Nfw9RXcm9SVmtR9 mining with AB since mid March?



U are one of those accounts with halong only posts. There are a ton of new or halong only accounts in this thread. I never seen this anywhere else before. I guess dimaze is next to assist u. That link is just a bitcoin address, nothing else lol.

It makes zero sense to buy an untested product. U dont even know if it will last for a month. Furthermore, if those whales were to test the demo, they would see that the numbers would not be as good as claimed, as other have pointed out. They then wouldnt buy it. The only other person who claim they sold alot is this newbie account called Unicrone (if i recall right).

It is utter ridiculous to claim that they sold so few units to the public but sold alot to big guys lol. If u gonna do that, u can claim all sorts of nonsense.

Why not do the right thing and reveal self/identity to everyone?

Selling 100 dollar coupons (8units expire 11th June, 14 units expire 1st july) and 125 dollar coupon (2 unit exp 30th June). Selling at 20% of value
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April 11, 2018, 04:34:03 PM
Merited by frodocooper (1)
 #1875

who is this for example https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/address/3ACjzvyr3PdPCnAcAi2Nfw9RXcm9SVmtR9 mining with AB since mid March?
That proves nothing beyond the fact that somebody modified the source code of the pool software to change different bits in the block header. The blocks mined with ASICboost can be mined with no overhead using standard miners, so this could be used as propaganda for no additional cost.

The only technical benefit of ASICboost is that it could reduce the power usage when mining certain combination of the header bits.

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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April 11, 2018, 05:29:58 PM
Last edit: April 11, 2018, 05:47:22 PM by Dr.Mann
 #1876

I dont mean to be a wet blanket but there is no notable increase in hashrate in Slush and Ck pool. Slush and CK pools are the only pools that can take dragonmints. Hashrate for slush should go through the roof it they sold alot, especially considering how small slush is to the total hashrate. Furthermore, alot of slush and CK pool hash will be due to cheap S9s flooding market. Thus, the logical conclusion is that they didnt sell much miners. [Emphasis added.]

Although it is not conclusive evidence, we have some reason to believe that Halong Mining's sales so far have been massive in terms of revenue, which I noted weeks ago, but I thought it might prove helpful again here. Unicornflex, a member of this forum, shared this analysis in February after he and I compared our DragonMint order numbers from our Halong Mining receipts. (See quote below.) We placed orders online right at about the same moment, and he later placed multiple additional orders. It seemed to us that Halong's online order system was using sequential order numbers. If our assumption is correct, we can have a rough estimate of Halong's number of sales. Since the minimum order quantity requirement was five units for quite some time, we can also estimate Halong's minimum total revenue, which we estimated was more than USD $50 million (as of early February 2018).

Our most recent estimate is that Halong has sold more than $50 million USD worth of DragonMint miners, based on Halong’s minimum order requirement of 5 units per order and Halong’s usage of sequential order numbers in its online order system, which together reveal an approximation as to how many units have been sold. Any large farms that invested in upgrading their equipment with DragonMints could easily have [pushed] total ordered units to more than $100 million in sales.
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April 11, 2018, 05:52:40 PM
 #1877


Why not do the right thing and reveal self/identity to everyone?

i was doing that few times already even publicly on twatter. even cobra doesn’t brag about my affiliation with halong since this it simply not true.

my name is Oleg i am mid to large scale reseller/consultant on mining operations in Russia. we running a company both for average miner joe sales and large scale private customers as well. i’m in a business since S7 came out, before (and still) I also involved in business related to general sourcing in china upon customer request. what else should I reveal ? my passport?

anyway, dimaze and everybody you trying to call out are a good company to stick with so i’m leaving you with your speculations for you pleasure.

btw I never told Halong did sell shit load of units to whale operations, I was pointing how things are generally made no matter what mfg we are talking about.
dimaze
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April 11, 2018, 06:05:16 PM
 #1878

T1 just arrived at my office, going to go grab it Smiley

If anyone had anything they wanted to see out of the miner, I'll try to accommodate any requests as I do my general review. Let me know!

Shazam!!!
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April 11, 2018, 07:37:56 PM
Merited by frodocooper (1)
 #1879

T1 just arrived at my office, going to go grab it Smiley

If anyone had anything they wanted to see out of the miner, I'll try to accommodate any requests as I do my general review. Let me know!


I want to see if they actually used -ck pool as a default pool, or just Flush Stool, oops, Slush Pool.

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April 11, 2018, 07:55:42 PM
Last edit: April 12, 2018, 03:41:24 AM by frodocooper
 #1880

I want to see if they actually used -ck pool as a default pool

Here's the defaults! This is just as it loaded up. More on my review later.

https://i.imgur.com/3Vj1sS8.png



Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to remove inline image tags.

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