DragonMint T1 16TH/S halongmining.com

[wavelengthsf]

Wow, thats very disappointing that it'll mine at advertised hashrates on ASICBOOST pools. Talk about false advertising...

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[kebabman]

How to compare 16Th with Asicboost to a miner without Asicboost? Is 16Th with Asicboost equivalent to 16Th without Asicboost in terms of mining profit?

It's 16th with Asicboost, if you run it on a pool that doesn't support AsicBoost it performs much worse (1/4 speed I read). So basically forget about AsicBoost in comparing just know that this is a 16th miner that only works on pools that support AsicBoost vs the S9 which is a 13TH miner that works on any pool.

Also pools that support ASIC boost are essentially Bitcoin Cash pools right? From what I understand ASIC boost does not work on Bitcoin Core Seq Witness...

No you got that wrong, it's only covert AsicBoost that doesn't work with SegWit. Which is the suspected reason Bitmain supported Bitcoin Cash.

Also pools that support ASIC boost are essentially Bitcoin Cash pools right? From what I understand ASIC boost does not work on Bitcoin Core Seq Witness...

I am reading it the other way around. Correct me if I am wrong.

Overt asicboost needs pool support and those are ONLY BTC pools currently.

There would be NO ADVANTAGE to using these machines on a BCH pool. Effectively these machines will be used to mine BTC exclusively. As the designers of these halong machines intended.

For 90% of miners on this board that is not a problem. For other people it could be.

Its part of the deceptive business practices that we have seen.
The initial sales pitch should have come with a disclaimer:
"Works better at some pools than others."
"16TH but your mileage may vary"

Well I see no reason why BCH pools couldnt also support overt AsicBoost. Hopefully it will become widely adopted by all pools, then there really is no need to worry about AsicBoost, it'll just be a 16TH miner.

[Albortz]

Ok so I am really lost.


When Bitmain used AsicBoost, everyone and their grandma was angry and upset and Evil Evil Bitmain was shouted...


Why are we celebrating AB now? I really dont get it lol


Makes no sense to me, to suddenly praise something we hated, just because its Not Bitmain for once :/

Bitmain had it hidden from the public and had the patent for it meaning no one else could use the technology giving them an unfair advantage. The halong group paid dearly for the patent to buy it and then opened it up with the blockchain defensive patent license - this license means anyone can use the asicboost technology provided they don't patent anything else in their hardware. Think about it - they paid for the license, only to open it up for everyone. No one has an unfair technology advantage now.

Well ok, so they are the nice guys here spending money for PR reasons that they are now seen as the good guys VS Bitmain being the devils using a patent they have on their own products which gives them an advantage...


Beside all the decentralised and power to the people, crypto movement BS, are you guys seriously believing Halong bought it because they wanted everyone to use it without heavy calculation for their own benefits?



Do you guys are this critical also on pharmaceutical patents or patents in general?  Of course, companies want to secure profits and benefits to cover R&D or make money in general.


Pharmaceutical Patents cost billions and Bayer and Co only have a couple years to earn the costs back. Sure, in this case, R&D is less expensive but still. I would have used AB in my miners as well if i was Bitmain

[wavelengthsf]

Well I see no reason why BCH pools couldnt also support overt AsicBoost. Hopefully it will become widely adopted by all pools, then there really is no need to worry about AsicBoost, it'll just be a 16TH miner.

Yes, but why should pools change their protocol because one mining company says so? Why not make chips that hash at their advertised rates, and then ASICBOOT if your pool supports it to get up to higher rates?

Saying you're selling a SHA-256 miner that runs at 16 TH/s is a misdirection at best and an outright lie at worst if it'll only run at that speed on certain pools.

[-ck]

Yes, but why should pools change their protocol because one mining company says so? Why not make chips that hash at their advertised rates, and then ASICBOOT if your pool supports it to get up to higher rates?

Pools are designed to make money from miners. Do you think pools will refuse to implement it and shut out potential new customers?

[wavelengthsf]

Yes, but why should pools change their protocol because one mining company says so? Why not make chips that hash at their advertised rates, and then ASICBOOT if your pool supports it to get up to higher rates?

Pools are designed to make money from miners. Do you think pools will refuse to implement it and shut out potential new customers?

Will CKPool support it day 1?

[Sandal_Hat]

Well I see no reason why BCH pools couldnt also support overt AsicBoost. Hopefully it will become widely adopted by all pools, then there really is no need to worry about AsicBoost, it'll just be a 16TH miner.

Yes, but why should pools change their protocol because one mining company says so? Why not make chips that hash at their advertised rates, and then ASICBOOT if your pool supports it to get up to higher rates?

Saying you're selling a SHA-256 miner that runs at 16 TH/s is a misdirection at best and an outright lie at worst if it'll only run at that speed on certain pools.

I find this asicboost weird too since they have to modify the pool for it to show the 16th hashrate. I guess normal miners gotta check if they still get the same returns on slushpool once there are alot of dragonmints on it since it works 16th on asicboost pools and lesser on other pools. If the dragon miners do less work but are getting paid for more in those asicboost pools, then, all other miners on that pool should have less returns. Best to double check later on. U never know how it is with new tech.

[philipma1957]

So I activated  my slush account waiting for demo unit.

Once I get it I will meter power used against hash .

My thoughts on forced  asic boost.  It would even playing field if every pool does it.

It would be transparent if every pool does it.

Will it work maybe.

If I do 16.2 th at 1400 -1500 watts on slush that works for me.

but I want to mine on -ck pool I do on and off.
I want to mine on bravo-mining I do on and off
I also like to mine on mmpool.org

I hope a few of them  switch to asicboost tec.

I am in favor of trying it out.

[-ck]

Yes, but why should pools change their protocol because one mining company says so? Why not make chips that hash at their advertised rates, and then ASICBOOT if your pool supports it to get up to higher rates?

Pools are designed to make money from miners. Do you think pools will refuse to implement it and shut out potential new customers?

Will CKPool support it day 1?

It's already deployed on both ckpools I'm mining with an experimental sample already on ckpool.org

[fr4nkthetank]

Seems to me that Bitmain is going to have to change their slogan for the S9:  "The worlds most efficient miner".

[Biffa]

Yes, but why should pools change their protocol because one mining company says so? Why not make chips that hash at their advertised rates, and then ASICBOOT if your pool supports it to get up to higher rates?

Pools are designed to make money from miners. Do you think pools will refuse to implement it and shut out potential new customers?

Will CKPool support it day 1?

It's already deployed on both ckpools I'm mining with an experimental sample already on ckpool.org

Do you have any real numbers of how it performs with Asicboost on or off on the pool?

Cheers

[Dr.Mann]

MyRig tweeted yesterday and Halong Mining retweeted that the DragonMint has received FCC certification. In addition, Halong Mining has printed the FCC logo on the decal affixed to the side panel of the DragonMint.  See: https://i.imgur.com/dZeTlvw.png

However, after searching the FCC's Equipment Authorization database for "Halong Mining", "Halong", and "MyRig", I am unable to confirm the existence of this certification, finding zero results. I performed the search here under the "Applicant Name" field: https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm

The search page screenshot is here: https://i.imgur.com/tL8qUGJ.png

The null results screenshot is here https://i.imgur.com/aW7sK9w.png

Halong Mining, please share information to clarify the discrepancy between your claim and what exists in the FCC's database.

[-ck]

Yes, but why should pools change their protocol because one mining company says so? Why not make chips that hash at their advertised rates, and then ASICBOOT if your pool supports it to get up to higher rates?

Pools are designed to make money from miners. Do you think pools will refuse to implement it and shut out potential new customers?

Will CKPool support it day 1?

It's already deployed on both ckpools I'm mining with an experimental sample already on ckpool.org

Do you have any real numbers of how it performs with Asicboost on or off on the pool?

Cheers

It's an engineering sample so not final silicon but this one is doing 15.5TH. I don't have it here so cannot comment on power draw. It's 1/4 speed trying to mine on a pool without asicboost if I force it to but basically it will currently refuse to mine on a pool that doesn't support it for now.

[-ck]

By the way I forgot to mention with my rewritten driver and this hardware's capabilities, it is an excellent match for p2pool; probably the first ASIC in a very long time to be. The reject rate I'm getting at my pool with this miner is <0.1%

[Biffa]

Yes, but why should pools change their protocol because one mining company says so? Why not make chips that hash at their advertised rates, and then ASICBOOT if your pool supports it to get up to higher rates?

Pools are designed to make money from miners. Do you think pools will refuse to implement it and shut out potential new customers?

Will CKPool support it day 1?

It's already deployed on both ckpools I'm mining with an experimental sample already on ckpool.org

Do you have any real numbers of how it performs with Asicboost on or off on the pool?

Cheers

It's an engineering sample so not final silicon but this one is doing 15.5TH. I don't have it here so cannot comment on power draw. It's 1/4 speed trying to mine on a pool without asicboost if I force it to but basically it will currently refuse to mine on a pool that doesn't support it for now.

So here's the rub, and I'll quote my question from another thread.

Thing that I'd like some clarity on, ASICboost was only suppost to improve the efficiency of a miner, not its hashing speed, so it did the same but used less power. Overall of course this would lead to either being able to push the miner faster for the same power usage (if the hardware could handle it) or running more individual miners but using the same power. (e.g. if it gave a 25% reduction in power, you could run 5 miners for the power you used to run 4 miners)

Is this new version of overt ASICboost different? There are hints that the Dragonmint miners will only run at 1/4 speed on non-asicboost pools. That sort of doesn't line up with how we all thought ASICboost

[-ck]

So here's the rub, and I'll quote my question from another thread.

Thing that I'd like some clarity on, ASICboost was only suppost to improve the efficiency of a miner, not its hashing speed, so it did the same but used less power. Overall of course this would lead to either being able to push the miner faster for the same power usage (if the hardware could handle it) or running more individual miners but using the same power. (e.g. if it gave a 25% reduction in power, you could run 5 miners for the power you used to run 4 miners)

Is this new version of overt ASICboost different? There are hints that the Dragonmint miners will only run at 1/4 speed on non-asicboost pools. That sort of doesn't line up with how we all thought ASICboost

It's the same form of asicboost but avoiding the switching topology to enable/disable asicboost makes the chips simpler and smaller.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Thing that I'd like some clarity on, ASICboost was only suppost to improve the efficiency of a miner, not its hashing speed, so it did the same but used less power. Overall of course this would lead to either being able to push the miner faster for the same power usage (if the hardware could handle it) or running more individual miners but using the same power. (e.g. if it gave a 25% reduction in power, you could run 5 miners for the power you used to run 4 miners)

Is this new version of overt ASICboost different? There are hints that the Dragonmint miners will only run at 1/4 speed on non-asicboost pools. That sort of doesn't line up with how we all thought ASICboost

It's the same form of asicboost but avoiding the switching topology to enable/disable asicboost makes the chips simpler and smaller.

In other words if a pool does not support AB the miner does NOT meet their advertised spec. Again Halong takes the 'our way and love it or bugger off' approach to their product and marketing. How are they any different than Bitmain in that respect? Answer: they are actually worse because BM so far has not crossed the false advertising (by omission) line.

Considering the nature of the AB patent and the Halong corporate attitude, personally I'm happy to say screw them and wait until Canaan joins the AB club.

[RoadStress]

Ah, looks like a happy ending.

I still don't understand the obfuscation though. They could've been upfront about who and what they were without letting the important details slip. Even if they don't need the custom, they should've respected the well earned paranoia around here.

We aren't familiar with the intricacies of the Chinese way of doing business

Bitmain had it hidden from the public and had the patent for it meaning no one else could use the technology giving them an unfair advantage. The halong group paid dearly for the patent to buy it and then opened it up with the blockchain defensive patent license - this license means anyone can use the asicboost technology provided they don't patent anything else in their hardware. Think about it - they paid for the license, only to open it up for everyone. No one has an unfair technology advantage now.

Oh wow. Thank you!

[Thetaj]

Thing that I'd like some clarity on, ASICboost was only suppost to improve the efficiency of a miner, not its hashing speed, so it did the same but used less power. Overall of course this would lead to either being able to push the miner faster for the same power usage (if the hardware could handle it) or running more individual miners but using the same power. (e.g. if it gave a 25% reduction in power, you could run 5 miners for the power you used to run 4 miners)

Is this new version of overt ASICboost different? There are hints that the Dragonmint miners will only run at 1/4 speed on non-asicboost pools. That sort of doesn't line up with how we all thought ASICboost

It's the same form of asicboost but avoiding the switching topology to enable/disable asicboost makes the chips simpler and smaller.

In other words if a pool does not support AB the miner does NOT meet their advertised spec. Again Halong takes the 'our way and love it or bugger off' approach to their product and marketing. How are they any different than Bitmain in that respect? Answer: they are actually worse because BM so far has not crossed the false advertising (by omission) line.

Considering the nature of the AB patent and the Halong corporate attitude, personally I'm happy to say screw them and wait until Canaan joins the AB club.

I hope we're not holding our breath for long about the second part.

[dimaze]

The default software will not allow you to even mine on non-AsicBoost pools. You'd have to modify it to do so (at the cost of efficiency and voiding the warranty probably)

Halong clarified that the speed would be no different, it'd be 16T regardless, it's just efficiency that takes a hit if the software was modified to a non-AB pool.

I'm wondering when the other manufacturers will hop on the overt AB bandwagon.