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Author Topic: [Crypto.Games] Investment tracking, 9 currencies, monthly stats.  (Read 1095 times)
Lutpin
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November 22, 2017, 08:07:09 PM
 #1

This thread is an indirect continuation from the previous investment report (which can be found here).
As the other thread is currently discontinued, I'll be tracking the returns on my investments for all currencies available at Crypto-Games.net

A few changes however:
1) Stats will be monthly, not weekly.
2) I will use 100 as base investment size for all coins to provide an easy comparison and to not disclose my actual invested amount.
3) Tracking will start at the 1st of December, meaning the first report will be available on January 1st, 2018.



First off, an explanation about bankroll investments at Crypto-Games.net and how they work:

How does Investing at Crypto-Games.net Work?

We offer players an opportunity to invest in any of our house bankrolls. Each cryptocurrency offered at Crypto-Games has its own independent bankroll. When investing, you increase the bankroll and the maximum profit per bet. As stated earlier, the house edge is slightly different depending on the game. Keep in mind, profit is not guaranteed, because of variance. In the short-term, you can still lose your cryptocurrencies. When investing, you gain/lose a share of profit/losses proportional to the fraction of the bankroll you have invested. We take 30% of the profit/losses that are made in a 1-hour interval. Also, when calculating profit/losses, faucets and referral rewards are factored in. Over the long run, you can expect your profit to equal your percentage of the bankroll multiplied by house edge, total wagered amount, and 70%.

Your long-term profit = (Your bankroll %) x (house edge) x (total wagered) x (0.7)

The equation above does not factor in faucets and referral rewards and is only an estimate for long-term returns. Also keep in mind, given new investments and divestments, your bankroll percentage is bound to change. Depending on the game, the house edge and total wagered is different as well. For a more detailed short-term (1 hour) calculation of your profit, use the equation below. P/L stands for Profit or Losses. Also, variables in the equations below are a function of the past hour only.

Total P/L = (Dice P/L) + (Slot P/L) + (BJ P/L) + (Roulette P/L) + (Video Poker P/L) – (Total Faucets) – (Total Referral Rewards)

Your P/L = (Total P/L) x (Your Bankroll %) x (0.7)

We charge additional divest fee for short-term investments. This is to prevent abuse. The fees are as shown below:

  • For investments younger than 7 days, there is a 0.3% divestment fee
  • For investments younger than 14 days, there is a 0.2% divestment fee
  • For investments younger than 21 days, there is a 0.1% divestment fee
  • For investments older than 21 days, there is no divestment fee

Divestment fee is calculated based on the total investment value, not on the profit/losses.

The minimum investment amounts are:
  • 0.01 BTC
  • 0.25 ETH
  • 0.5 DASH
  • 1.0 LTC
  • 1.0 XMR
  • 20,000 DOGE
  • 5 STRAT
  • 10 PPC
  • 1,000 GRC



And now the stats:





(Current stats are from the previous thread, tracking will be updated with new numbers after the first full month has passed.)



As always, if you have any questions, feel free to ask them here and I'll provide answers and help to the best of my knowledge.


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Lutpin
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November 22, 2017, 08:09:34 PM
 #2

Reserved.



Further links:
Official thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=750760.0


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November 25, 2017, 02:29:50 PM
 #3

Nice @Lutpin
Following this new thread.

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November 26, 2017, 09:45:24 AM
 #4

Just to set some expectations, I've been invested for approximately 2 weeks (BTC) and have generated approximately 0.16% interest in that time.

This works out around 4.16% interest per year, not to mention the divest fee. This leads me to believe that atleast one of the following must be true;

1. Bankroll turnover is slowing
2. Investment growth is accelerating
3. Profitability is decreasing (or recent high rollers have been hitting the bankroll).


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November 26, 2017, 10:42:08 AM
 #5

Just to set some expectations, I've been invested for approximately 2 weeks (BTC) and have generated approximately 0.16% interest in that time.

This works out around 4.16% interest per year, not to mention the divest fee. This leads me to believe that atleast one of the following must be true;

1. Bankroll turnover is slowing
2. Investment growth is accelerating
3. Profitability is decreasing (or recent high rollers have been hitting the bankroll).

Two weeks really isn't long enough to come to any of those conclusions.

1. You can regularly check the turnover for each coin and each game on the statistic tab. I cannot see any sign of a slow down.

2. If you look at the chart provided on the investments tab you can see the history of the total invested in each coin. Again none of them seem to have increased unusually in the last two weeks.

3. Profit is variable due to luck.

My first BTC investment made on 12th September is up 5.86% so far, but I wouldn't extrapolate that out for a full year as there is no merit in doing so.

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November 26, 2017, 10:50:34 PM
 #6

Just to set some expectations, I've been invested for approximately 2 weeks (BTC) and have generated approximately 0.16% interest in that time.
Two weeks really isn't long enough to come to any of those conclusions.
Seconded, one of the reason for the switch to monthly numbers is that imo weekly ones have way too much variance, a single high roller can influence them easily in both directions.
Of course, the same is true for monthly stats, but they are a bit less prone to it.

3. Profit is variable due to luck.
Maybe I should pin that at the beginning of the thread Smiley



2. Investment growth is accelerating
Not really, the bankroll is fairly stable, it's currently sitting at 1816BTC, with the high this year being 2007BTC in May (meaning overall investments have decreased).
Unless you factor in the bitcoin exchange rate, at which point the bankroll has increased big time over the year due to bitcoin climbing over 800% in price.

1. Bankroll turnover is slowing
~snip~
3. Profitability is decreasing
Same thing, isn't it?
Your expected profit results from wagers over your bankroll share, which really is just the turnover.

Right now, that would be 1,447BTC wagered the last 30 days over 1816BTC invested (~80% monthly turnover),
Compared to the numbers from August (2811 over 1630, 172%) and June (3524 over 1566, 225%).
Bit of a slow month, but I'd say anything close to full turnover in a months time still has a decent profit potential.


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November 27, 2017, 03:16:56 PM
 #7

This works out around 4.16% interest per year, not to mention the divest fee. This leads me to believe that atleast one of the following must be true;

After 21 days when the investment has matured, the divest fee is wavered. It also drops slowly over the course of the 21 days should you need to withdraw those funds.

I'm very pleased with all my investments in CG so far, with the exception of PPC which only ever seems to drop.

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November 27, 2017, 03:49:59 PM
 #8

I'm very pleased with all my investments in CG so far, with the exception of PPC which only ever seems to drop.

The chart tells a different story.



I did notice a high roller enjoying the 1.02x recently. If that run of luck comes to an abrupt end your investment is likely to spike.

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November 27, 2017, 09:49:06 PM
 #9

(Quoting from the old thread, would prefer to keep all discussion in a single one now)

Hi, I was wondering if different investments in the same coin are separate or if they are added like in a fund.
Let’s say you have an investment in Bitcoin and you want to add another BTC0.01. Are your first investment and this second one treated separately? I’ve tried to find this info in FAQ and this thread but can’t find it.
I know there is a divestment fee, so that makes me think they are separate but the fee could be calculated even if they are joined.
Investments are treated seperately due to the divest fee.
Regardless, two investments of 0.01BTC wil make the same profit one investment of 0.02BTC makes, since they all are part of the same bankroll.
If you want to increase your investments, adding another one is an option,
however the amount of investments you can have on a single coin is limited to 4 (I think, could be 5).


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November 28, 2017, 07:08:54 PM
 #10

If you want to increase your investments, adding another one is an option,
however the amount of investments you can have on a single coin is limited to 4 (I think, could be 5).

I guess that limit wouldn’t be a problem if I wanted to invest more in the same coin.

Let’s suppose than I had four 0.01BTC investments (plus interest) and I wanted to invest 0.05 more. I can divest out one of them and then add a new investment for 0.05BTC plus the amount I had divested. I suppose that isn't forbidden or anything.

Edit: I’ve replaced “cash out” by “divest” after reading @minifrij’s comment because I think it sounds more natural and correct.

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November 28, 2017, 07:28:42 PM
 #11

Let’s suppose than I had four 0.01BTC investments (plus interest) and I wanted to invest 0.05 more. I could cash out one of them (to my crypto-games.net account) and then add a new investment for 0.05BTC plus the amount I had cashed out. I suppose that isn't forbidden or anything.
Correct. If you want to increase an investment on a particular then you can simply divest that coin, then reinvest on the same coin with a higher value. So long as you wait long enough for the divestment fee to disappear, there is no downside to doing this.


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pinkman12345
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December 01, 2017, 10:07:07 AM
 #12

What is estimated daily profit on 100 ETH bankroll?

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December 01, 2017, 10:23:46 AM
 #13

I'm very pleased with all my investments in CG so far, with the exception of PPC which only ever seems to drop.

The chart tells a different story.

https://i.snag.gy/PDeg1p.jpg

I did notice a high roller enjoying the 1.02x recently. If that run of luck comes to an abrupt end your investment is likely to spike.


Please point this chart out to my active investment. It hasn't heard that it should be going up yet.


Also, that chart is over two years - not the week I've had it in so far and the two weeks I tried last time before getting weak hands and pulling it out. Tongue

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December 01, 2017, 03:24:43 PM
 #14

I'm very pleased with all my investments in CG so far, with the exception of PPC which only ever seems to drop.

The chart tells a different story.



I did notice a high roller enjoying the 1.02x recently. If that run of luck comes to an abrupt end your investment is likely to spike.


Please point this chart out to my active investment. It hasn't heard that it should be going up yet.


Also, that chart is over two years - not the week I've had it in so far and the two weeks I tried last time before getting weak hands and pulling it out. Tongue

The shorter your investment, the more likely it is that you are going to have a loss, due to variance, especially with those coins.

It is normal that the most common coins, like Bitcoin or Ethereum get a higher number of bets than coins like PPC during a one or two or week period, so variance is higher with the latter.

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December 03, 2017, 07:09:55 AM
 #15

Has anyone had problems making deposits recently?
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December 04, 2017, 02:58:27 AM
 #16

What is estimated daily profit on 100 ETH bankroll?

I think it is very hard to predict profits in bankroll investments because in some days you may make a good profit and sometimes you may lose some of your investments so if you're expecting steady profits then bankroll investments are not an option for you. No one can give you an accurate answer to your question. But in the long run, we can make a good profit from these investments.

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December 04, 2017, 11:35:59 PM
 #17

What is estimated daily profit on 100 ETH bankroll?

I think it is very hard to predict profits in bankroll investments because in some days you may make a good profit and sometimes you may lose some of your investments so if you're expecting steady profits then bankroll investments are not an option for you. No one can give you an accurate answer to your question. But in the long run, we can make a good profit from these investments.
according to the stats in the table,an average ETH investment (think you meant investment,not the bankroll in your question)
brings around 0.7% profit weekly,if you invest 100 ETH you will be getting 0.1% of that sum daily
i.e. your average profit would be 0.1 ETH,factor in variance and such,because luck may change and the exact time you invest
there could appear a wild ETH whale who wins and leaves you in  the red




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December 05, 2017, 07:45:11 AM
 #18

brings around 0.7% profit weekly,if you invest 100 ETH you will be getting 0.1% of that sum daily
i.e. your average profit would be 0.1 ETH,factor in variance and such,

Variance is the main issue here, you really can't look at it as being x much per day, you need to look at it as a long-term investment.

Just to give some figures to illustrate that even on a weekly basis how variable it is I made my first investment in the BTC bankroll back on the 12th September and made a note of the value each week since:

+1.66%
+0.70%
+0.11%
+0.05%
-0.04%
+0.14%
+0.12%
+2.40%
+0.09%
-0.04%
+0.24%

Giving a total return of 6.03% so far.



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December 05, 2017, 11:31:11 AM
 #19

Variance on daily returns is way too high to use average numbers as "expected" returns.

(On top of that, I'd consider the theoretical number calculated from house edge, wagering volume and bankroll share as expected profit,
not the one calculated based on past profit.)



Has anyone had problems making deposits recently?
Havent seen anyone having problems.


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December 05, 2017, 05:45:22 PM
 #20

Are you also going to provide us with some nice graphs and tables like on the previous thread?
It would be nice if you could keep the format similar, it was a very nice looking overview in the OP.

Good that you're continuing this, I've always found it handy to use the previous thread as an example of possible investment with Bitcoin and/or altcoins.
I think I must have linked to that one dozens of times Tongue

Edit: either you've added the stats after my post or they were not loading for me before. Anyway, nice to see them there!


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