2013-06-26 Bitcoin Black Market Competition Heats Up, With Pro Marketing

[lewisg]

http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml

When the online drug sales site Silk Road first appeared in 2011, the idea of anonymously buying any drug imaginable from the Internet seemed like cyberpunk fiction. Watch the cheery video ad for the latest dark-web drug marketplace today, and you’d be forgiven for thinking it was selling a service as mainstream as online dating or car insurance.

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[Bitware]

http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml

When the online drug sales site Silk Road first appeared in 2011, the idea of anonymously buying any drug imaginable from the Internet seemed like cyberpunk fiction. Watch the cheery video ad for the latest dark-web drug marketplace today, and you’d be forgiven for thinking it was selling a service as mainstream as online dating or car insurance.

your link is bad - here it is - http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/06/26/bitcoin-black-market-competition-heats-up-with-pro-marketing-and-millions-at-stake/

[BitChick]

As much as I like the fact that Bitcoin has some anonymity built into it, really I am not a fan of the fact it encourages illegal activity.  Part of the reason I got into bitcoin later in the game, so to speak, was because of things exactly like this!  I don't want to be affiliated with drug trafficking, porn, or even gaming sites.  So as much as this probably will help boost the price of BTC, it is actually disheartening to me.  And perhaps it does undermine the legitimacy of BTC in the longrun? 

[aigeezer]

As much as I like the fact that Bitcoin has some anonymity built into it, really I am not a fan of the fact it encourages illegal activity.  Part of the reason I got into bitcoin later in the game, so to speak, was because of things exactly like this!  I don't want to be affiliated with drug trafficking, porn, or even gaming sites.  So as much as this probably will help boost the price of BTC, it is actually disheartening to me.  And perhaps it does undermine the legitimacy of BTC in the longrun? 

BTC is user-neutral, much like toothpaste, much like money once was. That's its strength. If you or I don't like that someone unsavory uses it, then sooner or later some other person won't like how you or I use it. The pattern of meddling often starts with good intentions. Let's not do it this time. Live and let live.             

[Bitware]

As much as I like the fact that Bitcoin has some anonymity built into it, really I am not a fan of the fact it encourages illegal activity.  Part of the reason I got into bitcoin later in the game, so to speak, was because of things exactly like this!  I don't want to be affiliated with drug trafficking, porn, or even gaming sites.  So as much as this probably will help boost the price of BTC, it is actually disheartening to me.  And perhaps it does undermine the legitimacy of BTC in the longrun?  

how do you feel about debt-based cash and credit and whats been done with them, through them, and by whom and how often ?

how about gold and silver ?

tally sticks ?

you might want to compare the bad people and bad things done with and through each before answering... I am pretty sure you will agree how silly your post is, because even if currency was Yak shit - which it once was a very long time ago - bad people did bad things with it, good people did good things, good people did bad things, and bad people did good things with it.... just like bitcoin... just like cash... just like gold, and just like the next currency.

[BitChick]

As much as I like the fact that Bitcoin has some anonymity built into it, really I am not a fan of the fact it encourages illegal activity.  Part of the reason I got into bitcoin later in the game, so to speak, was because of things exactly like this!  I don't want to be affiliated with drug trafficking, porn, or even gaming sites.  So as much as this probably will help boost the price of BTC, it is actually disheartening to me.  And perhaps it does undermine the legitimacy of BTC in the longrun?  

how do you feel about debt-based cash and credit and whats been done with them, through them, and by whom and how often ?

how about gold and silver ?

tally sticks ?

you might want to compare the bad people and bad things done with and through each before answering... I am pretty sure you will agree how silly your post is, because even if currency was Yak shit - which it once was a very long time ago - bad people did bad things with it, good people did good things, good people did bad things, and bad people did good things with it.... just like bitcoin... just like cash... just like gold, and just like the next currency.

This is true.  However, my concern is that Bitcoin could possibly make it easier for people to do bad things, or get away with doing things a little easier. 

[DeathAndTaxes]

This is true.  However, my concern is that Bitcoin could possibly make it easier for people to do bad things, or get away with doing things a little easier.  

So does the internet, strong cryptography, and personal computers.  We likely should outlaws those too.

Bad people will use any EFFECTIVE tool to do bad things.  If something isn't useful for doing bad things, it means it is an ineffective tool and ... isn't useful for doing good things either.

[justusranvier]

I don't want to be affiliated with drug trafficking, porn, or even gaming sites.

I don't want to be associated with the murder of innocent "collateral damage" all over the globe, the funding and support of genocidal dictators for decades just to eventually bomb them anyway, the world's largest gulag system, or the enrichment of the wealthiest of the wealthy by destroying the purchasing power of everybody else. I can't help it though - the gangsters who do those things demand that I hand over my money to pay for their murder just because I happened to be born within their turf.

[marcus_of_augustus]

Yes, blaming the tool is actually absolving some of the responsibility from the bad actor by diminishing their part.

It is as ludicrous as the perpetrator yelling "The Bitcoins made me do it!" There are lots of chemicals under your kitchen sink and other household items that can cause horrific damage and crimes with knowledge, foresight and sufficient malice. Are we going to proceed through a long list of technologies blaming them also, all the while diminishing the responsibility of the perpetrators?

"Someone" hacks a car management and control computer and causes an upstart journalist to die in a horrific fiery smash ... do we ban car management and control systems? Or the tools used to hack them?

[chufchuf]

As much as I like the fact that Bitcoin has some anonymity built into it, really I am not a fan of the fact it encourages illegal activity.  Part of the reason I got into bitcoin later in the game, so to speak, was because of things exactly like this!  I don't want to be affiliated with drug trafficking, porn, or even gaming sites.  So as much as this probably will help boost the price of BTC, it is actually disheartening to me.  And perhaps it does undermine the legitimacy of BTC in the longrun? 

Going to church is about as onanistic as visiting a prostitute- the 20th century happened, look it up.

[BitChick]

Don't throw me under the bus here.    I was just commenting that these things were a deterrent for me to get involved sooner.  I finally weighed the pros and cons and realized that the pros outweigh the cons and so I am here with you all.

There are people that will be hesitant to use BTC because of things like this though, even if their fears are unfounded and illogical, like many of you have so eloquently pointed out already.

[smoothie]

This is true.  However, my concern is that Bitcoin could possibly make it easier for people to do bad things, or get away with doing things a little easier.  

So does the internet, strong cryptography, and personal computers.  We likely should outlaws those too.

Bad things will use any EFFECTIVE tool to do bad things.  If something isn't useful for doing bad things it means it is an ineffective tool and ... isn't useful for doing good things.

+1

[aigeezer]

This isn't for the sake of piling on, but an example popped into my head that may come in handy for future discussions of this kind.

"Stop waterboarding! Ban water! Ban boards!"

[e521]

As much as I like the fact that Bitcoin has some anonymity built into it, really I am not a fan of the fact it encourages illegal activity.  Part of the reason I got into bitcoin later in the game, so to speak, was because of things exactly like this!  I don't want to be affiliated with drug trafficking, porn, or even gaming sites.  So as much as this probably will help boost the price of BTC, it is actually disheartening to me.  And perhaps it does undermine the legitimacy of BTC in the longrun? 

I imagine that you can send FIAT by post instead of BTC if you want to buy illegal drugs, porn, etc.
So what, do we get rid of internet because it promotes the black market? Obviously not
BTC is just a currency, you can do exactly the same operations you can do with FIAT, probably much faster and cheaper.

The change has to come from another direction, educating people and adapting laws to people needs, not the opposite

[Rampion]

As much as I like the fact that Bitcoin has some anonymity built into it, really I am not a fan of the fact it encourages illegal activity.  Part of the reason I got into bitcoin later in the game, so to speak, was because of things exactly like this!  I don't want to be affiliated with drug trafficking, porn, or even gaming sites.  So as much as this probably will help boost the price of BTC, it is actually disheartening to me.  And perhaps it does undermine the legitimacy of BTC in the longrun?  

how do you feel about debt-based cash and credit and whats been done with them, through them, and by whom and how often ?

how about gold and silver ?

tally sticks ?

you might want to compare the bad people and bad things done with and through each before answering... I am pretty sure you will agree how silly your post is, because even if currency was Yak shit - which it once was a very long time ago - bad people did bad things with it, good people did good things, good people did bad things, and bad people did good things with it.... just like bitcoin... just like cash... just like gold, and just like the next currency.

This is true.  However, my concern is that Bitcoin could possibly make it easier for people to do bad things, or get away with doing things a little easier.  

So you would like to ban any form of cash-like money?

BS. And if you are worried about "being affiliated with bad things", you should have renounced to your US passport and citizenship a loooong time ago. Since you didn't, I guess you are not so worried about "being affiliated with bad things".

[marcus_of_augustus]

Don't throw me under the bus here.   

You're under now ... srry.

[Carlton Banks]

Don't throw me under the bus here.    I was just commenting that these things were a deterrent for me to get involved sooner.  I finally weighed the pros and cons and realized that the pros outweigh the cons and so I am here with you all.

There are people that will be hesitant to use BTC because of things like this though, even if their fears are unfounded and illogical, like many of you have so eloquently pointed out already.

Remember that one person's "getting away with bad things" is indistinguishable from "legitimately hiding their embarrassing health problem" or "making a politically sensitive donation" or "obscuring their sexual fetishes from the NSA", or any of the countless other examples. Hiding illegality makes up only one aspect of why anyone would want to use Bitcoin for privacy.

Privacy is not always good or always bad, it can be either or neither.

[Mike Hearn]

Don't throw BitChick under the bus indeed, her views aren't exactly uncommon. And here you're just preaching to the choir.

All sides have good points. One reason I have researched decentralised crime fighting is to try and make progress on such issues. In decentralised systems the definition of "crime" is determined by each participant in the system individually and which laws to enforce are determined via group consensus. It's early days for such ideas.

We should also remember what the outcomes of trying to fight crime via controlling money flows can be:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23030943

It's easy to think, oh, if only we do this check or pass that regulation then we can stop crime in its tracks by following the money. But these things have consequences. The costs and benefits have to be carefully weighed.

[Carlton Banks]

We should also remember what the outcomes of trying to fight crime via controlling money flows can be:

As usual Mike, you're the only person on Bitcointalk that's interested in turning a cash system into a banking system. Notice the thread title, you're off topic. 

[vokain]

Now if only Bitcoin itself can get this kind of marketing