Suprnova is selfish-mining BTG, and HOW YOU CAN BEAT THEM TO MAKE MONEY

[Dijkstra6666]

I posted on the scam accusation. I think I should post it here as well.

=======What happened?========

Suprnova is selfish-mining or steal-mining BTG for the last several days.

NOTE: I am not whining. I simply want to teach everyone how to beat them.


=======What is the proof?=======

1. Math:

    a. For the last several days, the luck of suprnova is worse than 100% (150%). Yes, it fluctuates. But when you have almost 70% of the net hash rate and you average over 3 days. This is simply wrong.

    b. Other mining pools have extremely bad luck comparing to suprnova. Some pools cannot mine anything for days.

    c. The network difficulty is significant lower than it should be if you calculate the network total hash rate of BTG.

2. I attacked their selfish-mining scheme and I made +100% profit out of it. I will teach everyone how to do so!

=====What they are doing?=======

After a few hours of studies on BTG chains and nicehash.com. Here ere are what they are doing.

Scheme 1. Exploiting their hash rate dominance to do selfish mining. When they mined a block, they may reserve the block for a few seconds to delay the computation of other pools on the next block. They can do this because they have over 70% of the computation power. If other pools mined any block in the between, they can easily make the mined blocks of other pools orphaned. This generates illegal profit for suprnova at the cost of other pools.

Scheme 2. Sometimes, supernova will discard received shares. When this happens, you will always see a drop in the suprnova hash rate. Some of computation power that suprnova directly controls will mine at another place while the main suprnova pool is stagnant. This guarantees a huge profit for suprnova at a cost of people who connect to suprnova. This also keeps the network difficulty low because some hash rate are locked inside suprnova.

Note that these may not be 100% accurate but they must be doing something similar. Otherwise, I won’t be able to make a profit out of it.

====How you can make profit?=====

So far, these may seem like a fairy tale but I have attacked their schemes and made a profit out of it.

The way to do it is very simple. All of these self-mining tricks rely on the control of over 50% of computation power. The second scheme is especially tricky and it requires to control even far more than 50%. There is a nice place which you can rent equihash power called nicehash.com.

When the difficulty was low on BTG a few hours ago, I rented roughly 20M hash rate (possibly by outbidding the suprnova guys) from the nicehash.com and directed to another pool (btgpool.pro). BTGPool.org suddenly mined a lot of blocks consecutively. Significantly more than what 20M~30M should mine. This is because suprnova was possibly executing the second scheme and some of the network hash rate is locked inside the suprnova.

After a while, more people switched to btgpool.pro because of the raise of the luck of btgpool.pro. It continued to a point where Suprnova no longer controls 50% of the hash rate. BTGPool.pro continued to outperform the theoretical expectation. Because suprnova was possibly still executing the schemes and losing money for not controlling 50% computation power. I keep my order on nicehash.com until a point where btgpool.pro dominated the BTG mining. The network difficulty raised significantly for the first time to a point that matches the supposed theoretical value. So I canceled my order.

I spent less than 0.8BTC and mined more than 50BTG. If suprnova is going to do this again, anyone can use the same strategy to make a profit.

==========More Notes===========

1. To everyone who wants to make money:

I am busy working on a new equihash miner and I do not have time to watch my nicehash.com order to be a policeman. Even though doing this will give me a pretty good profit. I want to share this with everyone in bitcointalk, so that I can go back to continue my own work.

Generally, if people using their 51% dominance to do selfish mining, you bring more hashpower via nicehash.com to beat them and you will be awarded .

2. To miners:

Please distribute your hashes to prevent anyone controls 51% of the computation power. Pools who dominate more than 50% can do far creepy things than this.

3. To those smart guys in suprnova:

I believe during the last several days, you have made enough illegal money out of this. Please stop doing this. I believe you will stop after my post. Otherwise, you are going to give free money to everyone.

Best,
Dijkstra6666

[LoraineLY]

Thanks buddy......
Thanks for telling me the truth.

Shame on you Suprnova for stealing btg from me!!!!!

[laineux]

I think your test was too short.
You run probably during about 15 rounds.

Big numbers theory doesn't apply with so small amount of data...

[preda]

thaths the why i couldn understand the why i wasnt getting btg like calculation said!!!!!
but the pool you mentioned it doesnt work its 0 miners!

i just pointed 1800 sol on nova i want to see if my earnings are precise like whattomine says

[ocminer]

So much FUD in one post ? Wow

It's funny to read .. especially because there are two Newbie-Accounts with only a few posts... Hey Mr. Competitor-Pool.. Keep it fair please !


1. You cannot easily withhold blocks for several minutes, every share you send has a timestamp and every block you solve (with that share) has this timestamp included, so I cannot just the blocks in queue here and send them out when I want. Also if some other pool would find a block during that time, all my withheld blocks would become invalid.  (Google for "nonce", "timestamp" and "bitcoin")

2. If I would point miners hash to some other coin or some other pool, all the miners would see a disconnect, a reconnect and a sudden change of difficulty of the coin they mine.. For example ZEC has a higher diff then BTG and a different pool would also have a different value which miners would all notice immediately.

The "exploit" you've explained is just the big problem which nicehash (or other rentals) is introducing with Prop-Pools, you steal from the small miners - that doesnt work on Suprnova because the pool is PPLNS:

http://give-me-coins.com/support/faq/what-is-pplns/


On every other Pool, Prop Payout schemes work so, that the guy who submitted the most shares on the current round gets the most coins. So even if there are 1000 small miners, everyone with lets say 100 shares do a lot of work for a round and then you come in with your nicehash rental and send 1000000 coins into the same round, YOU get the most of the round and the small miners get nothing.

On Suprnova you have PPLNS payment, that payment scheme looks over the last 25 rounds and counts those shares percentage on the current rounds value. So if you have had like 50% of the last 25 rounds, you get 50% of the current round... If you only had 10 %  you get only 10 etc..

Oh and at last the luck factor: We had <70% luck over the last days so bad luck HAD to come - you can't cheat the universe, you always will have good days and you will have bad days, no doubt about it.


So.. Before you do another high-class technical analysis Dr. Djikstra, please try to gather some background knowledge on blockchains before that


Oh and maybe you should post a few infos about all the bugs that were found in the z-nomp implementation which was modified for BTG which most other pools are running as well ? Miners hashing hot air for nothing there... At least partly

[NameTaken]

One annoying thing about Suprnova is that they removed the JSON API.

[ocminer]

One annoying thing about Suprnova is that they removed the JSON API.

Only a few parts because there's someone continously DDoSing it.. Msg me which call you need and I'll whitelist you

[LoraineLY]

I think your test was too short.
You run probably during about 15 rounds.

Big numbers theory doesn't apply with so small amount of data...

Are you serious???
Have you ever tried to mine btg before you dare to say this?

Let me tell you something as I've been doing the mining during the past few days. Before I connected to Suprnove, I connected to a pool called pool.go, and I got nothing after 8 hours mining. Then I switched to Suprnova, I finally got something, but extremely lower than my calculation. For the last three days, the Suprnova holds almost 80% of the network hash power, however, the pool's average luck stuck around 140% to 150%. Big numbers theory must hold for hundreds of rounds especially when Suprnova dominates the net. I don't believe that is normal. They are indeed stealing btg from me!

Do not try to defense Suprnova by simply telling me the data is not enough. I think this post at least answer my questions, and you are trying to make the others overlook the fact that Suprnova is a thief!

[NameTaken]

One annoying thing about Suprnova is that they removed the JSON API.

Only a few parts because there's someone continously DDoSing it.. Msg me which call you need and I'll whitelist you

.getuserstatus.data.hashrate to monitor my Solrate.

[ocminer]

One annoying thing about Suprnova is that they removed the JSON API.

Only a few parts because there's someone continously DDoSing it.. Msg me which call you need and I'll whitelist you

.getuserstatus.data.hashrate to monitor my Solrate.

That one is available but rate-limited to 60 seconds

[laineux]

I think your test was too short.
You run probably during about 15 rounds.

Big numbers theory doesn't apply with so small amount of data...

Are you serious???
Have you ever tried to mine btg before you dare to say this?

Yes, I mine BTG and many others on suprnova.
I don't know if they are thieves. But I don't think so.

And I repeat. You cannot conclude anything with 50 BTG reward.
Some rounds get in 5% luck. Others in 600%.

[LoraineLY]

So much FUD in one post ? Wow

It's funny to read .. especially because there are two Newbie-Accounts with only a few posts... Hey Mr. Competitor-Pool.. Keep it fair please !


1. You cannot easily withhold blocks for several minutes, every share you send has a timestamp and every block you solve (with that share) has this timestamp included, so I cannot just the blocks in queue here and send them out when I want. Also if some other pool would find a block during that time, all my withheld blocks would become invalid.  (Google for "nonce", "timestamp" and "bitcoin")

2. If I would point miners hash to some other coin or some other pool, all the miners would see a disconnect, a reconnect and a sudden change of difficulty of the coin they mine.. For example ZEC has a higher diff then BTG and a different pool would also have a different value which miners would all notice immediately.

The "exploit" you've explained is just the big problem which nicehash (or other rentals) is introducing with Prop-Pools, you steal from the small miners - that doesnt work on Suprnova because the pool is PPLNS:

http://give-me-coins.com/support/faq/what-is-pplns/


On every other Pool, Prop Payout schemes work so, that the guy who submitted the most shares on the current round gets the most coins. So even if there are 1000 small miners, everyone with lets say 100 shares do a lot of work for a round and then you come in with your nicehash rental and send 1000000 coins into the same round, YOU get the most of the round and the small miners get nothing.

On Suprnova you have PPLNS payment, that payment scheme looks over the last 25 rounds and counts those shares percentage on the current rounds value. So if you have had like 50% of the last 25 rounds, you get 50% of the current round... If you only had 10 %  you get only 10 etc..

Oh and at last the luck factor: We had <70% luck over the last days so bad luck HAD to come - you can't cheat the universe, you always will have good days and you will have bad days, no doubt about it.


So.. Before you do another high-class technical analysis Dr. Djikstra, please try to gather some background knowledge on blockchains before that


Oh and maybe you should post a few infos about all the bugs that were found in the z-nomp implementation which was modified for BTG which most other pools are running as well ? Miners hashing hot air for nothing there... At least partly

Unfortunately, I'm not from competitor pool. I'm just a single person who try to mine some btg for fun, however, thanks to you and your suprnova, I got barely nothing!!

Can you tell me why your AVERAGE luck stuck around 140% to 150% when you dominates the net for DAYS? Don't try to confuse the others. You did have some blocks had <70% luck, however, you cannot treat the universe the average luck.

I may be a newbie at this forum, but i'm not stupid. Don't try to press pressure on me just because I'm new to the community, and you are, of course a senior guy. So, as a senior guy in the community, would you please just honestly tell me where is my btg?

[NameTaken]

One annoying thing about Suprnova is that they removed the JSON API.

Only a few parts because there's someone continously DDoSing it.. Msg me which call you need and I'll whitelist you

.getuserstatus.data.hashrate to monitor my Solrate.

That one is available but rate-limited to 60 seconds

I have the refresh rate set to 600 seconds. I see it's working now but was not before.

[LoraineLY]

I think your test was too short.
You run probably during about 15 rounds.

Big numbers theory doesn't apply with so small amount of data...

Are you serious???
Have you ever tried to mine btg before you dare to say this?

Yes, I mine BTG and many others on suprnova.
I don't know if they are thieves. But I don't think so.

And I repeat. You cannot conclude anything with 50 BTG reward.
Some rounds get in 5% luck. Others in 600%.

Well, you can keep doing that, but I'm going to get my btg back. I do believe what the post said. There are too many things do not make sense, and this post did answer my questions.

[daimajia]

Wow, a real world blockchain attacking tutorial.   

[treanski]

So much FUD in one post ? Wow

It's funny to read .. especially because there are two Newbie-Accounts with only a few posts... Hey Mr. Competitor-Pool.. Keep it fair please !


1. You cannot easily withhold blocks for several minutes, every share you send has a timestamp and every block you solve (with that share) has this timestamp included, so I cannot just the blocks in queue here and send them out when I want. Also if some other pool would find a block during that time, all my withheld blocks would become invalid.  (Google for "nonce", "timestamp" and "bitcoin")

2. If I would point miners hash to some other coin or some other pool, all the miners would see a disconnect, a reconnect and a sudden change of difficulty of the coin they mine.. For example ZEC has a higher diff then BTG and a different pool would also have a different value which miners would all notice immediately.

The "exploit" you've explained is just the big problem which nicehash (or other rentals) is introducing with Prop-Pools, you steal from the small miners - that doesnt work on Suprnova because the pool is PPLNS:

http://give-me-coins.com/support/faq/what-is-pplns/


On every other Pool, Prop Payout schemes work so, that the guy who submitted the most shares on the current round gets the most coins. So even if there are 1000 small miners, everyone with lets say 100 shares do a lot of work for a round and then you come in with your nicehash rental and send 1000000 coins into the same round, YOU get the most of the round and the small miners get nothing.

On Suprnova you have PPLNS payment, that payment scheme looks over the last 25 rounds and counts those shares percentage on the current rounds value. So if you have had like 50% of the last 25 rounds, you get 50% of the current round... If you only had 10 %  you get only 10 etc..

Oh and at last the luck factor: We had <70% luck over the last days so bad luck HAD to come - you can't cheat the universe, you always will have good days and you will have bad days, no doubt about it.


So.. Before you do another high-class technical analysis Dr. Djikstra, please try to gather some background knowledge on blockchains before that


Oh and maybe you should post a few infos about all the bugs that were found in the z-nomp implementation which was modified for BTG which most other pools are running as well ? Miners hashing hot air for nothing there... At least partly

a little bit offtopic but i can confirm the nicehash shit from my own expirience, since im mining etn on suprnova i have around 15-20% more income...all the other pool gets nicehashed and like u said small miners are fucked

[bathrobehero]

    a. For the last several days, the luck of suprnova is worse than 100% (150%). Yes, it fluctuates. But when you have almost 70% of the net hash rate and you average over 3 days. This is simply wrong.

Stopped reading there. You obviously have no idea how variance (luck) works.

Edit: read the whole thread, I was right.

[syraka76]

I blame does not do suprnova, guilty and people who just throw in a pool, there are other decent pools around, but now and nomination issue, if people split the load on power at least 4 pools would it be more profitable? Also because suprnova shows a few different data, workers do not appear, wrappings do not even appear unconfirmed and confirmed, and it remains so for hours, the site has become pretty slow.

Beware I'm not saying that suprnova and thief

[Ventureum]

why should we support a fork founded by people who cheated in the first place? ppl should just ignore this fork.

[sathackr1]

ocminer --

Sorry to grab you off-topic but I've tried reaching out to you via email and PM without a response.

I've been mining on xmr.suprnova.cc for a few months now and just recently noticed several of the payments were not received in my wallet -- another user on the forum had a similar issue a while back. The payments that were not received also do not show TX ids on the transaction page of the pool site. Total missing is about 3.1XMR.

Please help get my XMR to me or figure out where it went -- $450 isn't alot for some people but my electric bill is due and the money isn't here to pay it. You have a good reputation and I've mined on your pools for years -- so I'm sure it's just a mixup somewhere -- I'd just like to get it fixed.

It sucks that I have to post with a newbie account because I've had an account here for years, but it was locked in the 2015 hack and I haven't been able to get it unlocked.

Thank you

[preda]

ok after 24 hours i can say that suprnova is giving me 100% of what whattomine says i should get. so i dont know i will continue mining in nova

[Dastashka]

So bad pool really guys, just don't mine on Supernova, never!

[janamana]

On First Day of MainChain launch itself BTG Dev has alerted about centralization on one of the pool, which is not fair for any one who interests in BTG. Miners has to understand and shift there Hashes to other best pools (not biased, next best available pool BTGpool.pro as of now..). It fair for everyone who is spending on resources like Time, Hardware and Power should not be wasted un-economically!!

[Marvell2]

On First Day of MainChain launch itself BTG Dev has alerted about centralization on one of the pool, which is not fair for any one who interests in BTG. Miners has to understand and shift there Hashes to other best pools (not biased, next best available pool BTGpool.pro as of now..). It fair for everyone who is spending on resources like Time, Hardware and Power should not be wasted un-economically!!

Dont like supernova either, constantly logs me out, never get notifications when rigs are down
and my hashrate is always lower on the node that it should be, I have 10 rigs of 1070s mixed with
1080tis , i should be at 28k sols but pool consistently show 25k sols

If ethpool or another pool starts a btg pool , Im out

[reb0rn21]

@
Marvell2

1. Never look at hasrate just what you get over 24h (sure luck can be a issue to know right)!!!! (that all miners should learn, not only about suprnova but all pools!)
2. yeah suprnova email alert is broken and ocminer is lazy to fix it
3. pool logout for a reason, I presume to offload servers also there are a lot attack being done

[ime]

1.  If suprnova were selfish-mining, it would benefit all contributors to the pool.  A pool can steal from its contributors in many ways, but straightforward selfish-mining is not one of them.

2a.  The bad luck exhibited by btg.suprnova.cc is extraordinary.  According to the statistics shown at https://btg.suprnova.cc/index.php?page=statistics&action=blocks, lifetime, enough shares have been submitted to find almost 2500 blocks (2480 as I write), with a standard error of 50 blocks.  In fact, only 1505 blocks have been found, a variation of 20 standard errors.  Luck that bad by chance is more unlikely than finding two blocks on your first two shares submitted.

2b.  There were problems with some of the pool software, including code that extracted a secret fee for the benefit of one of the developers.  But even if we look at just the last week of mining, we see enough shares to mine 959 blocks, with a standard error of 31 blocks... and only 633 have actually been mined.  That's over 10 standard errors of bad luck.  So even if pool software problems caused the earlier apparent bad luck, those should have been fixed for more than a week, yet the bad luck continues.

3.  Having over 50% of the blocks of a chain mined by a single entity is brittle.  All of us who own, mine, receive or spend BTG would be better off if suprnova's share of the mining were substantially lower than it is.

[TaylorFade]

Man... I just want to mine BTG.

If the world is better off if I point my measly little rig somewhere other than Suprnova, then so be it. Just tell me where to point it.

[paramind22]

I've also contacted ocminer without response.  If you're growing too big try to at least get more people to help with customer support because your pool is great.   Is the BCC pool still active? There is no hash there.  Why is the BCC payout so large, according to another post?  Small miners probably can't make that.   What exactly is it?

Maybe you need a slack channel.

[Mike011]

Mining. Pool. Hub. Go there and mine btg `till kingdom come.

[ime]

Maybe you need a slack channel.

The pool at http://bgold.mining4.co.uk/getting_started does have a discord channel, https://discord.gg/beWHa4, which is attended by the pool operator (I am not he).  Only three blocks of BTG mined so far, on fewer than 1.4 million shares submitted (that is, better-than-expected luck).

[Jules81]

Join https://coinblockers.com
It needs some more Hashpower urgently!

[QualityAlts]

Suprnova seems to be messed up like many people in this thread have said:

I'm using Suprnova and CCMiner x64 2.2.3 (ccMiner tpruvot fork v2.2.3 With Polytimos and KeccakC support) with 4 gtx 1070s to mine Monacoin (Lyra2Rev2 algo).

CCMiner reports around 34-35 MH/s per card = 139-140 MH/s total yet Suprnova reports around 80 - 100 MH/s on the graph on the left, and in a box on the right reports around 80 MH/s.

Also, according to whattomine, I should be making 1.1-1.2 Monacoin per day.  Well, I've been mining for about 12 days and only have 8.5 Monacoin (8 paid, 0.5 not paid yet).

Something is obviously not right...

[East113]

Suprnova seems to be messed up like many people in this thread have said:

I'm using Suprnova and CCMiner x64 2.2.3 (ccMiner tpruvot fork v2.2.3 With Polytimos and KeccakC support) with 4 gtx 1070s to mine Monacoin (Lyra2Rev2 algo).

CCMiner reports around 34-35 MH/s per card = 139-140 MH/s total yet Suprnova reports around 80 - 100 MH/s on the graph on the left, and in a box on the right reports around 80 MH/s.

Also, according to whattomine, I should be making 1.1-1.2 Monacoin per day.  Well, I've been mining for about 12 days and only have 8.5 Monacoin (8 paid, 0.5 not paid yet).

Something is obviously not right...

I'm running 3 1070ti's at avg 1500 Sol/s on ZEN. Should be around .35-.4 coins a day. Seem to be stuck around .28 coins a day. I've had an hour here and there down time due to smos being crap but for the last 2 days my "hourly" earnings should put me at what all calculators say I should be mining daily however the last 24 hours is never what it should be, stays around the .28-.29 range it seems.

[shibob]

I have been mined LBC and BTG in suprnova and I never got any problem on their payment.
Actually most of us know that Suprnova is a trusted and legit pool, but I dont understand how it calculate the shared hashrate or sth like that.
For me, sometime I saw my hashrate in there is lower than the average value in miner. But I think it should be normal because I experienced the same thing in every pools.

[HashingHellfire]

I'm sure the small miners have $14k worth of BTC to dump on hash smh.. well done on robbing them good job OP.

Suprnova is fair, I've mined multiple coins there with no downtime, getting roughly the same as my estimates.

Anyone who's mined there over any decent length of time knows this.

[Eyedol-X]

NOTE: I am not whining. I simply want to teach everyone how to beat them.

Sorry, this looks like whining.

Been using Suprnova for BTG for a while now, payouts are what I expect them to be after confirmations and rounds.

You clearly don't understand how their rounds work and how luck works.

A bit of advice, you should seek to understand before you throw out scam accusations. Ever heard the story of the boy who cried "wolf!" ?

[Alpha1rus]

NOTE: I am not whining. I simply want to teach everyone how to beat them.

Sorry, this looks like whining.

Been using Suprnova for BTG for a while now, payouts are what I expect them to be after confirmations and rounds.

You clearly don't understand how their rounds work and how luck works.

A bit of advice, you should seek to understand before you throw out scam accusations. Ever heard the story of the boy who cried "wolf!" ?

Hey Eyedoll!
I've been mining for 3 months now. I started with Zcash on Nova and then went to FlyPool as Nova was having some hard time finding blocks and one time I spent a whole day and mined almost nothing. I know it's not the pool's fault, but now I'm mining Mona there on suprnova again because I know the pool and also because I don't speak Japanese, language all the other pools display on their sites.
The thing is, I too have experience an income below what I'd expect, as I have two miners one working at 150kh/s and the other at 50kh/s and I'm not even getting what I'd expect for 155 Kh/s but a bit less.
Whattomine say I'd have 155 kh/s but mi second miner shows 50 instead of the 13 whattomine says..so I'm a bit confused here...

Could you explain me a little bit about luck and rounds?
Thank you!

[newmz]

Suprnova seems to be messed up like many people in this thread have said:

I'm using Suprnova and CCMiner x64 2.2.3 (ccMiner tpruvot fork v2.2.3 With Polytimos and KeccakC support) with 4 gtx 1070s to mine Monacoin (Lyra2Rev2 algo).

CCMiner reports around 34-35 MH/s per card = 139-140 MH/s total yet Suprnova reports around 80 - 100 MH/s on the graph on the left, and in a box on the right reports around 80 MH/s.

Also, according to whattomine, I should be making 1.1-1.2 Monacoin per day.  Well, I've been mining for about 12 days and only have 8.5 Monacoin (8 paid, 0.5 not paid yet).

Something is obviously not right...

If you are mining Lyra2rev2 (vertcoin, monacoin) DON'T useCCMiner x64 2.2.3! Use the Nanashi ccminer 2.2 mod-r2 to get a match between locally reported hash rate and pool reported hashrate.