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Author Topic: Supreme Court rulings  (Read 1663 times)
yona (OP)
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July 01, 2013, 08:02:18 AM
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hi,
i am not american and i don't know the system, so help me understand:

as i understand Liberty Reserve is under legal Attack of the FinCen.
this attack will produce many rulings that will be the base of the court's attitude towards Digital/Virtual currency.
this might go all the way to supreme court and force the supreme court to decide important decisions regarding the balance between freedom and the dangers of AML and such.
but i dare guess that the case of Liberty Reserve is not very compelling to rule towards freedom... so in a few years there will be precedents that the FinCen and the regulator will be able to use to make things harder on bitcoin?
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There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin Core, but full nodes are more resource-heavy, and they must do a lengthy initial syncing process. As a result, lightweight clients with somewhat less security are commonly used.
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July 01, 2013, 08:22:02 AM
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The question is about the three Rs finCen defined, Record, report and tRace

the question is not about technology used, it is about clean transaction. Currently , the LR violates the law as the owner attempt to mask everything while bitcoin is in grey area as all people can read transactions.
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July 01, 2013, 12:46:21 PM
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I rather doubt there will be many interesting legal rulings to come out of the LR case.  There may be some wrangling over jurisdictional issues and some defendants may fight extradition.  Some may settle or plead guilty.  If it can be shown that actual money laundering from a criminal organization occurred, there may be some finger pointing as far as who's to blame.  Most of these issues wouldn't directly affect people not involved in the case.

To have the court rule on the validity of AML laws, someone would have to come forward and claim that the government violated their rights.  If someone who used LR were to sue the government and demand their money back then things might get interesting, but that hasn't happened yet.
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July 01, 2013, 10:37:22 PM
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If you are going to rob someone, its best to rob a criminal. They tend to object much less frequently.
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July 02, 2013, 12:25:41 PM
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I rather doubt there will be many interesting legal rulings to come out of the LR case.  There may be some wrangling over jurisdictional issues and some defendants may fight extradition.  Some may settle or plead guilty.  If it can be shown that actual money laundering from a criminal organization occurred, there may be some finger pointing as far as who's to blame.  Most of these issues wouldn't directly affect people not involved in the case.

To have the court rule on the validity of AML laws, someone would have to come forward and claim that the government violated their rights.  If someone who used LR were to sue the government and demand their money back then things might get interesting, but that hasn't happened yet.

SCOTUS will only get to review it if there is a constitutional issue, and they care to look at it.

BUT...How forfeiture is handled in the lower courts for these pseudo-anonymous transactions will be interesting.

What is the standard of care for the innocent users hurt by the forfeiture?  There are clear precedents for non-fraudulent users to be made whole once the matter is resolved.  BUT... How to validate the claims?

This is distinct from Bitcoin where the transactions are more plainly recorded and more easily available, but the LR case could have some effects.

For example, if a Bitcoin exchange is allegedly doing money laundering, and the exchange gets seized.  The non-anonymous users who are innocent of wrongdoing are also harmed by the seizure.  The LR forfeiture case will have to accommodate the evidence of these users and have some standard to show that they are who they are without a pure KYC in place.

What is to stop a bunch of unrelated folks from making claims saying that XXX anonymous account is really their account and asking the government for their money back?  How are valid claims proved?  There has to be a standard of care there.  This is where it will be interesting for Bitcoin (and where Bitcoin is clearly better).

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