[ANN][BWK] BULWARK | NO ICO | Masternodes | Accelerated PoW | Seesaw PoS/MN

[Eatbatterys]

We have had FPGAs(in terms of the effect they are having on the Bulwark network for simplicity's sake, we'll treat them as ASICs) added to the Bulwark network. We promised the Bulwark community that ,should an event like this occur, we will have options available for the community to vote on in terms of how to proceed.

Please carefully read the three options below, along with their Pros and Cons, and cast your vote. While we'd love to allow for a longer amount of time to pass while leaving this vote up, we believe it of the utmost importance to get a game plan in place and begin implementing it as soon as possible.

As such, we will leave this vote up for 24 hours to gauge which action the community wishes the Bulwark team to commence work on so we can get started. Thank you to the entire Bulwark community for your continued support through this journey.

PoW Algo Switch
Pros:
          - Will allow GPU mining to be useful again.
          - Will remove ASIC/FPGA/Nicehash from the network.
          - Will remove Nicehash from being able to affect the network.
Cons:
          - Baikal could potentially add the algorithm we change to.
          - Nicehash could potentially add the algorithm we change to.

Move PoS Up
Pros:
          - Will stabilize the network.
          - PoW related attacks will no longer be an issue.
          - Coins will now be able to be staked.
Cons:
          - BWK will no longer be obtained via mining of any kind.

Leave things as is
Pros:
          - Increased hash rate will help stabilize the network for the remainder of PoW.
          - Will make 51% attacks exponentially more difficult and expensive to perform.
          - Will spread hashpower out more evenly, helping the aforementioned pros further.
Cons:
          - Makes GPU mining profitability considerably lower.

Please use the poll at the top of this thread to cast your vote.

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[lyolyalya]

shipping?they just add a support of nist5 and x11gost algos to existing miners.thats why hashrate is growing SOOO fast.

[Eatbatterys]

shipping?they just add a support of nist5 and x11gost algos to existing miners.thats why hashrate is growing SOOO fast.

Correct. It's not a soon to come hardware. It already exists and people are already using it. They pushed a software update people could implement that allows them to now mine nist5 with their x10's

[Bunzz]

x10 miner's would loose about 40% hashing income to mine BWK,  either they like wasting money or they support the coin and think it's future is bright!!  I have 10 x-10's and i'll mine xvg and buy BWK cause i support the coin!! Not all Asic miner's are evil, just saying I got nothing but love for GPU's I have em too!!

[Kryptowolf512]

I thought u guys are a bit more experienced in stuff like algorithms. ASICs chips can only mine a specific algorithm, so the baikal x10 had 6 or 7 different chips and they just activated them with a firmware. So they need a new ASIC for the new algorithm. Sure its possible, but if you guys make it for them complicated as possible, im sure they will have problems. So I would take option #1. Just change the algo to something really complicated algorithm. Take a look at cryptonightv7,lyra2rev,x16r or you just create a new kind of algorithm if your team is experienced im sure this will not be a problem for you guys.

[AltScope]

x10 miner's would loose about 40% hashing income to mine BWK,  either they like wasting money or they support the coin and think it's future is bright!!  I have 10 x-10's and i'll mine xvg and buy BWK cause i support the coin!! Not all Asic miner's are evil, just saying I got nothing but love for GPU's I have em too!!

the main issue with asics imo is the knock on effect:

1) gpu/cpu only algorithm comes out its profitable
2) asic comes out for any algorithm
3) becomes unprofitable to gpu/cpu mine
4) gpu/cpu's spead to other algorithms lowering profitability
5) see 1

don't get me wrong I'd love an x-10 and asics do support the networks but its getting crazy

I was trying to find a decent pool but then saw the news

[homey108]

We are aware that there is an ASIC available for the NIST5 algorithm and are discussing possible solutions internally.

We will have an announcement soon.

Thank you.

All these forks that have been happening, are getting ridiculous.  Seems like every month or so there's another major problem. Everyone trying to find out whether or not they're on the right chain, lost coins, investors fleeing, exchanges shutting down transactions, mandatory updates, basically a big mess.  Amateur hour.  Get the freakin blockchain stable and secure already.

Just switch to POS and be done with all these needless mining issues.  The miners just dump the price down anyways and don't prop it up by buying on exchanges.  Atleast with POS, people will be forced to buy and hold in order to profit.  All benefits and no downsides.  Stable blockchain and positive price movement for once.

The miners have had a long run of profitable mining and dumping BWK,  there are thousands of other coins for them to wreck. Time to take it seriously and build a stable future for this coin. I honestly can't believe that after two major mining related forks, that the devs haven't switched to POS already and are even considering more pandering to the miners with an algo change.

[Eatbatterys]

We are aware that there is an ASIC available for the NIST5 algorithm and are discussing possible solutions internally.

We will have an announcement soon.

Thank you.

All these forks that have been happening, are getting ridiculous.  Seems like every month or so there's another major problem. Everyone trying to find out whether or not they're on the right chain, lost coins, investors fleeing, exchanges shutting down transactions, mandatory updates, basically a big mess.  Amateur hour.  Get the freakin blockchain stable and secure already.

Just switch to POS and be done with all these needless mining issues.  The miners just dump the price down anyways and don't prop it up by buying on exchanges.  Atleast with POS, people will be forced to buy and hold in order to profit.  All benefits and no downsides.  Stable blockchain and positive price movement for once.

The miners have had a long run of profitable mining and dumping BWK,  there are thousands of other coins for them to wreck. Time to take it seriously and build a stable future for this coin. I honestly can't believe that after two major mining related forks, that the devs haven't switched to POS already and are even considering more pandering to the miners with an algo change.

You know that a fork hasn't happened and nothing is wrong with our network, right? An FPGA has released a software update that allows their hardware owners to mine nist5 (Bulwark). This in turn caused nethash to rise to a staggering 17Th/s+ over night.

We're not doing this out of necessity. We clearly stated in our white paper that should an event like this happen, we would put it to a vote and consider a PoW algorithm switch. We are men of our word and we are doing exactly what we stated we would do since the whitepaper was released shortly after Bulwark went live back in December. For those that read the white paper, this vote is coming as no surprise to them. Most are happy that we've remembered and are keeping our word to actually listen to our community.

[Eatbatterys]

I thought u guys are a bit more experienced in stuff like algorithms. ASICs chips can only mine a specific algorithm, so the baikal x10 had 6 or 7 different chips and they just activated them with a firmware. So they need a new ASIC for the new algorithm. Sure its possible, but if you guys make it for them complicated as possible, im sure they will have problems. So I would take option #1. Just change the algo to something really complicated algorithm. Take a look at cryptonightv7,lyra2rev,x16r or you just create a new kind of algorithm if your team is experienced im sure this will not be a problem for you guys.

We are fully capable of implementing Option #1. That's why it's an option on the poll.

[ganzocrypt]

option#1

[homey108]

We are aware that there is an ASIC available for the NIST5 algorithm and are discussing possible solutions internally.

We will have an announcement soon.

Thank you.

All these forks that have been happening, are getting ridiculous.  Seems like every month or so there's another major problem. Everyone trying to find out whether or not they're on the right chain, lost coins, investors fleeing, exchanges shutting down transactions, mandatory updates, basically a big mess.  Amateur hour.  Get the freakin blockchain stable and secure already.

Just switch to POS and be done with all these needless mining issues.  The miners just dump the price down anyways and don't prop it up by buying on exchanges.  Atleast with POS, people will be forced to buy and hold in order to profit.  All benefits and no downsides.  Stable blockchain and positive price movement for once.

The miners have had a long run of profitable mining and dumping BWK,  there are thousands of other coins for them to wreck. Time to take it seriously and build a stable future for this coin. I honestly can't believe that after two major mining related forks, that the devs haven't switched to POS already and are even considering more pandering to the miners with an algo change.

You know that a fork hasn't happened and nothing is wrong with our network, right? An FPGA has released a software update that allows their hardware owners to mine nist5 (Bulwark). This in turn caused nethash to rise to a staggering 17Th/s+ over night.

We're not doing this out of necessity. We clearly stated in our white paper that should an event like this happen, we would put it to a vote and consider a PoW algorithm switch. We are men of our word and we are doing exactly what we stated we would do since the whitepaper was released shortly after Bulwark went live back in December. For those that read the white paper, this vote is coming as no surprise to them. Most are happy that we've remembered and are keeping our word to actually listen to our community.

Seriously?  Just a mere few weeks since the last major problem and mandatory wallet update and you've already forgotten ?   There has been a major issue with the network/blockchain every month or so.  Put these problems to bed once and for all.  The answer is simple and obvious.

[Eatbatterys]

We are aware that there is an ASIC available for the NIST5 algorithm and are discussing possible solutions internally.

We will have an announcement soon.

Thank you.

All these forks that have been happening, are getting ridiculous.  Seems like every month or so there's another major problem. Everyone trying to find out whether or not they're on the right chain, lost coins, investors fleeing, exchanges shutting down transactions, mandatory updates, basically a big mess.  Amateur hour.  Get the freakin blockchain stable and secure already.

Just switch to POS and be done with all these needless mining issues.  The miners just dump the price down anyways and don't prop it up by buying on exchanges.  Atleast with POS, people will be forced to buy and hold in order to profit.  All benefits and no downsides.  Stable blockchain and positive price movement for once.

The miners have had a long run of profitable mining and dumping BWK,  there are thousands of other coins for them to wreck. Time to take it seriously and build a stable future for this coin. I honestly can't believe that after two major mining related forks, that the devs haven't switched to POS already and are even considering more pandering to the miners with an algo change.

You know that a fork hasn't happened and nothing is wrong with our network, right? An FPGA has released a software update that allows their hardware owners to mine nist5 (Bulwark). This in turn caused nethash to rise to a staggering 17Th/s+ over night.

We're not doing this out of necessity. We clearly stated in our white paper that should an event like this happen, we would put it to a vote and consider a PoW algorithm switch. We are men of our word and we are doing exactly what we stated we would do since the whitepaper was released shortly after Bulwark went live back in December. For those that read the white paper, this vote is coming as no surprise to them. Most are happy that we've remembered and are keeping our word to actually listen to our community.

Seriously?  Just a mere few weeks since the last major problem and mandatory wallet update and you've already forgotten ?   There has been a major issue with the network/blockchain every month or so.  Put these problems to bed once and for all.  The answer is simple and obvious.

You're confusing FPGA's having nist5 capabilities now with a major blockchain breaking problem. They are not the same thing.

[homey108]

The hash being controlled/dominated by a small group is absolutely related.  I would even bet that this last major issue with the blockchain was directly related.  How soon we forget.  It was like 20-30 days ago. 

The miners have created enough problems.  They have also made more than enough money while wreaking havoc on the stability of this coin.  What's with the pandering to the miners?

So you switch to a different algo. Then after a few weeks or a month, the hash power once again moves to one group, and we see another unintended fork..

How many times does this have to happen before you switch to POS and stop it once and for all?

[Eatbatterys]

The hash being controlled/dominated by a small group is absolutely related.  I would even bet that this last major issue with the blockchain was directly related.  How soon we forget.  It was like 20-30 days ago.  

The miners have created enough problems.  They have also made more than enough money while wreaking havoc on the stability of this coin.  What's with the pandering to the miners?

So you switch to a different algo. Then after a few weeks or a month, the hash power once again moves to one group, and we see another unintended fork..

How many times does this have to happen before you switch to POS and stop it once and for all?

The miners have created enough problems.  They have also made more than enough money while wreaking havoc on the stability of this coin.

Who is they? Everyone? Miners? The problems we've experienced have been an extremely selective few. Easily enough to count on one hand. I don't believe miners as a whole are to blame. Doing so is ignorant.

What's with the pandering to the miners?

Is it really pandering if we're trying to do right by miners in a PoW coin? Additionally, the vast majority of our community and support structure was built on the backs of miners. I, for one, wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them as not having a voice and not being considered in any decisions we make for the project they helped build.

So you switch to a different algo. Then after a few weeks or a month, the hash power once again moves to one group, and we see another unintended fork..

Speculative opinion.

How many times does this have to happen before you switch to POS and stop it once and for all?

In our whitepaper, we clearly stated that in the event something like this should occur, we would put it to a community vote and consider an algorithm switch. Should we do this and once again have baikal or a similar fpga provider add us again, then we can absolutely consider pushing PoS up.



I'm sorry you feel this way, but fortunately for our miners and supporters, the Bulwark Team won't allow a misplaced grudge to illicit emotional responses out of us in regards to the development of the project.

[homey108]

Well it looks like you have already decided to pander to the miners and disregard the obvious risk to the stability of the network.  I guess we can just plan on more unintended forks, lost coins, long outages while waiting for sporks/updates or other fixes, and long waits for exchanges to get updates and get on the correct chain.  We obviously think differently.  If it was me, and my coin was becoming a serial forker and there was an obvious and easy solution like POS, then it would have already been done.

If it happens once, people might have some patience.  But now it's happened twice, and you've made it clear that you have no interest in putting a definite stop to it. You are also willfully ignoring how a group with superior hardware can quickly take over the majority of the hash and cause problems.


It's your coin though and you're going to do what you want regardless of what the bigger investors or community wants.  Might as well not even have the vote, it was nothing more than a PR stunt to fool people into believing it was a community project.

[Piston Honda]

i don't care re. mining since i don't do that shit.  just buy/trade and run them MN's! so whatever the case, i/we wish to see BWK back on the moon!

[homey108]

You should care.  It's not going to the moon as long as the miners are still forking it and dumping the price.  Back when there were only 100 masternodes and the ROI was super high, there were plenty of new MN buyers to offset the constant dumping from miners.  Now with over 800 MN's on the wire, and terrible ROI, there aren't enough buyers to counter-balance the dumping.  Then each time the miners fork this coin, the price dumps even more.  It's in the death spiral.  One more un-intended fork and long repair and recovery process, and this coin will be trading for less than 100 Satoshis. 

On the other hand, if they switched to POS things would be different.  People would be encouraged and incentivized to buy more coins on the exchanges and to hold them.  There would be no more miners dumping, and the price would rise. 

It's real simple.  The price is set on the exchanges.  Miner's only interaction with exchanges is to dump.  They pay for their coins through hardware vendors and electric companies.  They don't support the price, they depress the price.  POS and MN owners on the other hand, first BUY coins on the exchange and drive prices up.  There is a big difference between these two.   Then you add in the unintended forks and it's a no-brainer.  One group supports the price, while the other dumps it and forks the chain.

The real supporters have been the long term investors and MN owners.   Miners just mine and dump whatever coin they can make the most profit on at the moment without a care for what damage is done.  It's unfortunate to see the dev's inability to see and understand these factors.

Now is a perfect opportunity to do what is right for the long term success of this coin,  or pander to the miners and ignore the effects.

[RivAngE]

You should care.  It's not going to the moon as long as the miners are still forking it and dumping the price.  Back when there were only 100 masternodes and the ROI was super high, there were plenty of new MN buyers to offset the constant dumping from miners.  Now with over 800 MN's on the wire, and terrible ROI, there aren't enough buyers to counter-balance the dumping.  Then each time the miners fork this coin, the price dumps even more.  It's in the death spiral.  One more un-intended fork and long repair and recovery process, and this coin will be trading for less than 100 Satoshis. 

On the other hand, if they switched to POS things would be different.  People would be encouraged and incentivized to buy more coins on the exchanges and to hold them.  There would be no more miners dumping, and the price would rise. 

It's real simple.  The price is set on the exchanges.  Miner's only interaction with exchanges is to dump.  They pay for their coins through hardware vendors and electric companies.  They don't support the price, they depress the price.  POS and MN owners on the other hand, first BUY coins on the exchange and drive prices up.  There is a big difference between these two.   Then you add in the unintended forks and it's a no-brainer.  One group supports the price, while the other dumps it and forks the chain.

The real supporters have been the long term investors and MN owners.   Miners just mine and dump whatever coin they can make the most profit on at the moment without a care for what damage is done.  It's unfortunate to see the dev's inability to see and understand these factors.

Now is a perfect opportunity to do what is right for the long term success of this coin,  or pander to the miners and ignore the effects.

The Monero fork went pretty well I'd say, why wouldn't Bulwark follow the same path? Also, if Bulwark is the first coin in the NIST5 family (I don't know any other coin though) to change the algo successfully, then that'll make it more popular. People will talk about it and start researching it and surely some of them investing in it. So that's what I believe would be the best course of action, forking the algo and keeping it ASIC-resistant.

[Bunzz]

With almost 95% of total supply of coins already in circulation it's almost a moot point.  Hommie you seem so angry, don't worry mining will be done soon enough and the price of will rise.  a 51% attack does not seem like much of a threat since would not be much of a coin grab ($400k).  Xvg was attacked for 4 days until they fixed it,  best guess they got between 80 to 120 million coins at $.08 so $6 to $10 million...Miner's don't always dump, most of the time mining smaller coins is for a long term investment.  I have racks of older miner's that run and run and I only check wallets and markets like once a month.  I know blockchain has evolved to a point where miners are an option now but back it the day without miner's there would not have been any crypto currency.  

[homey108]

All good points.  Things have certainly changed, and the changes continue to accelerate.  Now there really is no need for POW on the BWK chain, but as you said, miners played a major role just a few short years ago and they still do today for many coins.

I see another unintended fork as highly likely as long as POW remains.  Especially with the superior hardware we see hitting the blockchains today.  People are fooling themselves if they believe that fpga isn't going to adapt to whatever algo the devs choose.  Once this happens, we're back in the same boat with superior hardware concentrating the hash power and forking the coin.

There's really no upside to continuing POW. Only downsides, lower prices, and malicious or unintended forks.