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Author Topic: UK's first Gold ATM  (Read 2563 times)
ElectricMonk
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July 01, 2011, 12:17:58 PM
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/gold/8609976/UK-unveils-first-ATM-for-gold-at-Westfield-Shopping-Centre.html

Similar discussion of Bitcoin ATMs here...

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=5122.0
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=5127.0
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=5300.0
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=5943.0
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=6926.0
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=24335.0

Not sure why you'd need a full on ATM machine?

You could just have a normal PDQ machine and a touchscreen monitor that sends bitcoin to their address once it's been processed or am I missing something?



When I tell friends and family about bitcoin they're keen but then they ask how they can get some. This makes it simple. Very simple. No? WHat am I missing?
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ElectricMonk
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July 01, 2011, 01:42:02 PM
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97 views and no reply?

Can I assume then that this is actually workable?

I live within a tightly knit community in South East London. I think I could get nearly every shop in the town to accept Bitcoin. I know a good proportion of the shop owners. You'd have to repackage it as "community money" though as this town is one of those socialist hippy arty California type towns.
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July 01, 2011, 01:50:50 PM
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Smartphone barcode app that allows you to exchange bitcoins between people as easy as cash.
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July 01, 2011, 01:55:31 PM
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I'm looking forward to seeing the ATM where bitcoin can be converted to cash. I saw a link somewhere that someone in the US is doing this. Anybody have an update?
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July 01, 2011, 01:59:32 PM
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The main block to point-of-sale is the transaction confirmation time. This can be solved by having two services running in tandem, one - the POS infrastructure, and two - an escrow-like service that pays the merchant immediately, but is left minding the verifications for final settlement.

You wouldn't be able to use credit cards or reversible-charge mechanisms, unless the escrow side of the business thought it was an acceptable risk. (I don't see why they'd bother, really - just stick with bitcoin in general.)

Don't know if you can shoe-horn a custom client into a small POS card-reader. That is another hurdle to overcome. Still possible, I think.

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July 01, 2011, 02:02:55 PM
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Gold ATM is actually a vending machine, because it only lets you buy the gold with credit cards/cash not actually withdraw from an account.  That, and it sells the bars in gift packaging at what I'm sure are rates of 50%+ over spot.  So just a novelty, and one that few could afford.  Might work better with silver since then you could actually get some decent mass at a dollar amount that people could blow.

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July 01, 2011, 02:33:54 PM
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Gold ATM is actually a vending machine, because it only lets you buy the gold with credit cards/cash not actually withdraw from an account.  That, and it sells the bars in gift packaging at what I'm sure are rates of 50%+ over spot.  So just a novelty, and one that few could afford.  Might work better with silver since then you could actually get some decent mass at a dollar amount that people could blow.

Buying gold with credit cards? Wouldn't they have the same charge-back problem with eBay and Bitcoin?

There would be a temptation to max out your card and then claim the card was stolen.  Hell, it would be the best way to get value out of a stolen credit card.

insert coin here:
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ElectricMonk
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July 01, 2011, 02:47:21 PM
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In the UK at least, if you use a card with chip and pin then chargebacks are not a problem. As the PIN is sufficient to show that you identified the card holder. And even if it was disputed you could show from the blockchain that the bitcoin was delivered to the address.

I don't think I'd need to shoehorn a client into the PDQ. It would just be like purchasing tickets at a box office.

 - State your bitcoin address, or swipe your card with it on!? on adjacent computer terminal
 - enter the amount of GBP you'd like to convert to bitcoinin in terminal.
 - Hit purchase on terminal
 - Pay by Chip annd PIN card with PDQ.
 - collect receipt
 - Go spend your Bitcoin in local shops and services.

Seems like a good way of getting Bitcoin into the hands of real people in a real business community.

I have an office here so it's the sort of thing I could set-up either here or in the local library (also in the centre of town).

Then promote it as a local currency.
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July 01, 2011, 07:56:08 PM
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97 views and no reply?

Can I assume then that this is actually workable?

I live within a tightly knit community in South East London. I think I could get nearly every shop in the town to accept Bitcoin. I know a good proportion of the shop owners. You'd have to repackage it as "community money" though as this town is one of those socialist hippy arty California type towns.

They tried the community money thing in Brixton a few years ago. It didn't work. I take it you're talking about New Cross. I also take it that you've never been to California, haha.
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July 01, 2011, 08:04:32 PM
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Gold ATM is actually a vending machine, because it only lets you buy the gold with credit cards/cash not actually withdraw from an account.  That, and it sells the bars in gift packaging at what I'm sure are rates of 50%+ over spot.  So just a novelty, and one that few could afford.  Might work better with silver since then you could actually get some decent mass at a dollar amount that people could blow.

Buying gold with credit cards? Wouldn't they have the same charge-back problem with eBay and Bitcoin?

There would be a temptation to max out your card and then claim the card was stolen.  Hell, it would be the best way to get value out of a stolen credit card.

I meant PayPal and Bitcoin.

insert coin here:
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Open an exchange account at CampBX: options, lowest commissions, and best security
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MoonShadow
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July 01, 2011, 08:10:07 PM
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Not sure why you'd need a full on ATM machine?

You don't, but some people are going that route because of the familiarity aspect of the large ATM, as well as a ready made kiosk that can be readiliy secured in public.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
ElectricMonk
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July 01, 2011, 11:46:04 PM
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Not sure why you'd need a full on ATM machine?

You don't, but some people are going that route because of the familiarity aspect of the large ATM, as well as a ready made kiosk that can be readiliy secured in public.

If it's just a PDQ and a touchscreen monitor then it just needs to be vandal proof rather than secure. If it's within a shop, library or community centre then it doesn't even need to be that. The beauty of bitcoin is that the value of the bitcoin would not stored within the machine. If someone stole all the equipment then they'd just have the equipment and not the bitcoin.
ElectricMonk
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July 01, 2011, 11:50:16 PM
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97 views and no reply?

Can I assume then that this is actually workable?

I live within a tightly knit community in South East London. I think I could get nearly every shop in the town to accept Bitcoin. I know a good proportion of the shop owners. You'd have to repackage it as "community money" though as this town is one of those socialist hippy arty California type towns.

They tried the community money thing in Brixton a few years ago. It didn't work. I take it you're talking about New Cross. I also take it that you've never been to California, haha.

I have a Brixton pound note stuck to the wall of my office.

Not New Cross - but Crystal Palace.

As for California, my wife and I went on a month's long trip along the Pacific Coat Highway and then on to Las Vegas. Best holiday I've ever had but there's no doubting that California is full of irrational nut jobs. Nice people but enemies of reason.

MoonShadow
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July 01, 2011, 11:56:50 PM
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Nice people but enemies of reason.


Wow, that sums it up nicely.  I lived near Oceanside, California for a time, and can honestly say that those six words are truth incarnate.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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August 22, 2011, 04:39:19 AM
 #15

Looks like the same gold ATMs may be in place here in Australia too:
http://www.smh.com.au/executive-style/snack-bars-to-gold-bars-vending-machines-dispense-bullion-20110822-1j5w2.html

I think this is a good thing..   I'd love to see the bitcoin ATMs in place beside them Smiley


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August 22, 2011, 02:57:54 PM
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Nice people but enemies of reason.


Wow, that sums it up nicely.  I lived near Oceanside, California for a time, and can honestly say that those six words are truth incarnate.

"California - the land of fruits and nuts separated by a bunch of flakes"  Smiley MoonShadow - I sent you a PM.
Ben Walsh (beamer)
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August 22, 2011, 04:43:55 PM
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"When I tell friends and family about bitcoin they're keen but then they ask how they can get some. This makes it simple. Very simple. No? WHat am I missing?"

ATMs are a great idea but something that they can use right now is textcoin.co.uk.

My friends/family are completely used to the concept of buying something through an SMS text message, like ringtones etc ... so the transition to buying Bitcoin using this method is simple and painless.

The premium (almost entirely due to the 25% that SMS gateway processor company charge) is unfortunately the inevitable cost of the convenience.

Some have stuck with textcoin.co.uk for buying BTC and others have moved to other exchange methods.

I think more services like this one, across the world, will be a significant driver of mainstream adoption of Bitcoin.

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August 22, 2011, 04:48:13 PM
 #18

I have written apps for the VeriFone payment terminals and, yes, they could work.  They would not be able to run a whole block chain, but they would definitely be able to serve as the client end of some client/server tango that does.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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