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Author Topic: Why do you believe God exists?  (Read 7579 times)
BADecker
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December 11, 2018, 02:13:40 PM
 #841


I was born into a Catholic family.  That was not my choice.  I did not choose God to later reject him.

I ignored stories about God the same way other kids ignored stories about Santa Claus.  

Then my critical thinking skills did the rest when I turned about 12.  I started asking questions for which I got a wholesome beating from a holy nun.  Nasty, old, big nosed bitch she was.  It became a routine, I asked a question, class laughed, I got a beating, back to drawing Jesus feeding the hungry and raising some schmucks from dead.

I rejected God the same you reject Santa Claus.  The same reason:  fictional character.

BTW, why did you reject Santa Claus?  Please do tell.  


Unfortunately, religious organizations don't know the answers in a logical way. Their faith is logical (because we all live by faith; nobody can see an instant into the future), but they don't use it to logically find out the answers. And they take it out on people who use logic.

The closer we get to micro machines, the more we find out that operations in the universe (and especially life) are super micro machines in the extreme. We use them as such. We are applying DNA to computers to make them "think" better. We are using DNA natural machines with man made machines: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/synthetic-biology-building-machines-from-dna/ and https://www.cell.com/chem/pdf/S2451-9294(16)30111-5.pdf and many more if you search for them.

The question we seem to be ignoring is, who or what made these natural machines and the machine of nature? Evolution and Big Bang are nice ideas, but they are sadly lacking in real life application. The thing we see in machines is, machine makers. So, who or what made the machines of nature and the universe?

Forget the word "God." Forget, also, the silly notion that stuff simply springs into being all by itself. We don't have any example of real spontaneity happening anywhere. Rather, look at science and see the machines, and then apply this kind of thinking to the idea of machine making. Who or what made the machines of the universe. Whoever or whatever made the machines of nature had super-great ability.

If you ignore the machine maker(s) of nature, or that there could be any such thing(s), you are turning away from science and what science is discovering and using... that nature is made up of machines, and is collectively a gigantic machine. In addition, you are turning away from the kind of logic that made you question the nuns.

Cool

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December 11, 2018, 03:01:05 PM
Last edit: January 26, 2019, 06:14:08 PM by ATMD
 #842


Forget the word "God." Forget, also, the silly notion that stuff simply springs into being all by itself. We don't have any example of real spontaneity happening anywhere. Rather, look at science and see the machines, and then apply this kind of thinking to the idea of machine making. Who or what made the machines of the universe. Whoever or whatever made the machines of nature had super-great ability.

I agree.

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December 11, 2018, 03:27:29 PM
 #843


Democratic rule does not prevent tyranny it is not exempt from injustice and immorally. Review the history of Athens if you want to understand this better.


Even far from it!

There is no way to prevent tyranny in a group of different individuals in my experience. Whatever the group and its members, whatever the system, there will always a time where a large majority will say "we do this" ignoring de facto a minority who will get imposed something they don't want.

Democracy is a beautiful word but hiding a complex submissive/dominant reality. People are uprising when you say that democracy isn't perfect and isn't moraly good, that it's just an organization system that has its flaws...

I would say that democracy is a bit better over complete dictatorship but there must be even better forms of organization keeping more freedom directly in the hands of the people.
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December 11, 2018, 07:01:56 PM
Merited by af_newbie (2)
 #844


Democratic rule does not prevent tyranny it is not exempt from injustice and immorally. Review the history of Athens if you want to understand this better.


Even far from it!

There is no way to prevent tyranny in a group of different individuals in my experience. Whatever the group and its members, whatever the system, there will always a time where a large majority will say "we do this" ignoring de facto a minority who will get imposed something they don't want.

Democracy is a beautiful word but hiding a complex submissive/dominant reality. People are uprising when you say that democracy isn't perfect and isn't moraly good, that it's just an organization system that has its flaws...

I would say that democracy is a bit better over complete dictatorship but there must be even better forms of organization keeping more freedom directly in the hands of the people.

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others." Winston Churchill

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December 11, 2018, 08:59:51 PM
 #845


I was born into a Catholic family.  That was not my choice.  I did not choose God to later reject him.

I ignored stories about God the same way other kids ignored stories about Santa Claus.  

Then my critical thinking skills did the rest when I turned about 12.  I started asking questions for which I got a wholesome beating from a holy nun.  Nasty, old, big nosed bitch she was.  It became a routine, I asked a question, class laughed, I got a beating, back to drawing Jesus feeding the hungry and raising some schmucks from dead.

I rejected God the same you reject Santa Claus.  The same reason:  fictional character.

BTW, why did you reject Santa Claus?  Please do tell.  


Unfortunately, religious organizations don't know the answers in a logical way. Their faith is logical (because we all live by faith; nobody can see an instant into the future), but they don't use it to logically find out the answers. And they take it out on people who use logic.

The closer we get to micro machines, the more we find out that operations in the universe (and especially life) are super micro machines in the extreme. We use them as such. We are applying DNA to computers to make them "think" better. We are using DNA natural machines with man made machines: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/synthetic-biology-building-machines-from-dna/ and https://www.cell.com/chem/pdf/S2451-9294(16)30111-5.pdf and many more if you search for them.

The question we seem to be ignoring is, who or what made these natural machines and the machine of nature? Evolution and Big Bang are nice ideas, but they are sadly lacking in real life application. The thing we see in machines is, machine makers. So, who or what made the machines of nature and the universe?

Forget the word "God." Forget, also, the silly notion that stuff simply springs into being all by itself. We don't have any example of real spontaneity happening anywhere. Rather, look at science and see the machines, and then apply this kind of thinking to the idea of machine making. Who or what made the machines of the universe. Whoever or whatever made the machines of nature had super-great ability.

If you ignore the machine maker(s) of nature, or that there could be any such thing(s), you are turning away from science and what science is discovering and using... that nature is made up of machines, and is collectively a gigantic machine. In addition, you are turning away from the kind of logic that made you question the nuns.

Cool

I am an engineer, I would never design nature the way it is.  No engineer would.

Nature is more like a wild, self-evolving energy monster, that eats everything in its path, releasing matter and energy that forms other monsters. There is absolutely no design in it. Energy conversion, that is about it.

There is an appearance of design to an untrained eye because one looks through a very small time window without understanding what came before and why.  Thanks to Biology we have a pretty good handle on how life evolved over time.

We are on an energy yo-yo cycle that started with the Big Bang and will most likely end with the Big Crunch, and the cycle will repeat itself with a different set of physical constants.  The process will repeat itself until a new, stable universe will be formed with physical constants suitable to sustain observers.

Nature is cruel, unforgiving, but pretty cool in its own way.

There are a lot of unknowns in nature.  Science uncovers and solves them one by one.

So don't jump to the "magician did it" answer when you don't know what the unknown is, never mind how it came about.

And for fuck's sake stop the "Judeo-Christain ideology is the answer to everything" BS.  If we stuck following it, we would still be hungry and wet in some caves, wiping our asses with leaves, waiting for the Sun to come up.

Religion does not solve anything, it just takes away your money and your time.  It makes you emotionally dependent on it and blinds you so that you cannot see the world the way it really is.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
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December 11, 2018, 11:29:33 PM
Last edit: December 11, 2018, 11:43:11 PM by CoinCube
 #846


Democratic rule does not prevent tyranny it is not exempt from injustice and immorally. Review the history of Athens if you want to understand this better.


Even far from it!

There is no way to prevent tyranny in a group of different individuals in my experience. Whatever the group and its members, whatever the system, there will always a time where a large majority will say "we do this" ignoring de facto a minority who will get imposed something they don't want.

Democracy is a beautiful word but hiding a complex submissive/dominant reality. People are uprising when you say that democracy isn't perfect and isn't morally good, that it's just an organization system that has its flaws...

I would say that democracy is a bit better over complete dictatorship but there must be even better forms of organization keeping more freedom directly in the hands of the people.

At the end the day the character of the government is dependent on the character of the people. If a population is greedy, lustful, envious, and slothful they will favor leaders and support causes that pander to these vices. Quality of life and governance in general will worsen and the best a systems of checks and balances can do is slow the decay. Similarly if a population is prudent, just, courageous, and charitable then they will elect leaders and support causes promote these virtues.

The real challenge of improving governance over the long term is how do we improve the moral character and virtue of human beings?  This is no small task. Indeed it is the most important aspect of progress. Technological advancement is secondary.  

There is where the Atheist go wrong. Their solutions here always fail. They sometimes go totally nuts and assume humans are some kind of perfect creature if only the environment was adjusted. Thus leads them to crazy ideas like communism which if you read the actual ideology might work ok for a population of perfect selfless sinless angels but predictably collapses into contradiction, horror, and tyranny when applied to actual human beings.

Or they go the other way and embrace total relativism. They deny the existence of good and evil altogether everything is just preference. There is no value in anything. Anything socially accepted is "good" anything not is "bad". This leads to a willful self-annihilation as I noted a few posts back. It also lead many atheist leaders to favor drastic population reductions as a way of maintaining control. They grow fearful of an unruly population and their dependence on an unsustainable debt bubble to keep that population happy thus they start to desire the extermination of said population. This is a time honored strategy of tyrants and well documented. It is even described in the Bible as widespread at the time of Moses birth.

The answer to the challenge of good governance is that every generation must prioritize the moral improvement of each individual citizen. This is the necessary prerequisite to ensure future generations will be better off then current generations. God is necessary to this process for without God we are lost in a sea of moral relativism. Without God we can't even define objective good and evil let alone moral improvement.
 
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BADecker
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December 11, 2018, 11:44:02 PM
 #847


Unfortunately, religious organizations don't know the answers in a logical way. Their faith is logical (because we all live by faith; nobody can see an instant into the future), but they don't use it to logically find out the answers. And they take it out on people who use logic.

The closer we get to micro machines, the more we find out that operations in the universe (and especially life) are super micro machines in the extreme. We use them as such. We are applying DNA to computers to make them "think" better. We are using DNA natural machines with man made machines: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/synthetic-biology-building-machines-from-dna/ and https://www.cell.com/chem/pdf/S2451-9294(16)30111-5.pdf and many more if you search for them.

The question we seem to be ignoring is, who or what made these natural machines and the machine of nature? Evolution and Big Bang are nice ideas, but they are sadly lacking in real life application. The thing we see in machines is, machine makers. So, who or what made the machines of nature and the universe?

Forget the word "God." Forget, also, the silly notion that stuff simply springs into being all by itself. We don't have any example of real spontaneity happening anywhere. Rather, look at science and see the machines, and then apply this kind of thinking to the idea of machine making. Who or what made the machines of the universe. Whoever or whatever made the machines of nature had super-great ability.

If you ignore the machine maker(s) of nature, or that there could be any such thing(s), you are turning away from science and what science is discovering and using... that nature is made up of machines, and is collectively a gigantic machine. In addition, you are turning away from the kind of logic that made you question the nuns.

Cool

I am an engineer, I would never design nature the way it is.  No engineer would. - No engineer is smart enough to even begin to seriously think about how to design something like nature.

Nature is more like a wild, self-evolving energy monster, that eats everything in its path, releasing matter and energy that forms other monsters. There is absolutely no design in it. Energy conversion, that is about it. - All of nature operates through the laws of physics, by cause and effect. Therre is no evolution beyond the change that C&E provides.

There is an appearance of design to an untrained eye because one looks through a very small time window without understanding what came before and why.  Thanks to Biology we have a pretty good handle on how life evolved over time. - Microscopic C&E is a rather large window. Adaptation, like-begets-like and simple change fit life way better and easier than evolution does.

We are on an energy yo-yo cycle that started with the Big Bang and will most likely end with the Big Crunch, and the cycle will repeat itself with a different set of physical constants.  The process will repeat itself until a new, stable universe will be formed with physical constants suitable to sustain observers. - Big Band and Big Crunch are fun science fiction. Neither takes into account more than a particle of the reality that exists.

Nature is cruel, unforgiving, but pretty cool in its own way. - Like when a doctor doesn't have any control over broken bones mending, and skin growing back together, but nature does it?

There are a lot of unknowns in nature.  Science uncovers and solves them one by one. - And there are so many that a thousand years won't give modern science enough time to solve more than a smattering of them.

So don't jump to the "magician did it" answer when you don't know what the unknown is, never mind how it came about. - But that's essentially what some scientists do when they believe Big Bang and Evolution are real without any proof for them.

And for fuck's sake stop the "Judeo-Christain ideology is the answer to everything" BS.  If we stuck following it, we would still be hungry and wet in some caves, wiping our asses with leaves, waiting for the Sun to come up. - Thank Goodness for the Judeo-Christian ideology. It's the only thing that keeps you from being "hungry and wet in some" cave, "wiping" your ass "with leaves, waiting for the Sun to come up." Christianity is based on Judaism, and together they are the way to eternal life.

Religion does not solve anything, it just takes away your money and your time.  It makes you emotionally dependent on it and blinds you so that you cannot see the world the way it really is.

Since you know this about religion, get away from you faith-based science that has nothing to back it up other than speculation... before you turn it into a religion any more than you have already.

Cool

Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz !
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December 12, 2018, 12:39:32 AM
 #848


Unfortunately, religious organizations don't know the answers in a logical way. Their faith is logical (because we all live by faith; nobody can see an instant into the future), but they don't use it to logically find out the answers. And they take it out on people who use logic.

The closer we get to micro machines, the more we find out that operations in the universe (and especially life) are super micro machines in the extreme. We use them as such. We are applying DNA to computers to make them "think" better. We are using DNA natural machines with man made machines: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/synthetic-biology-building-machines-from-dna/ and https://www.cell.com/chem/pdf/S2451-9294(16)30111-5.pdf and many more if you search for them.

The question we seem to be ignoring is, who or what made these natural machines and the machine of nature? Evolution and Big Bang are nice ideas, but they are sadly lacking in real life application. The thing we see in machines is, machine makers. So, who or what made the machines of nature and the universe?

Forget the word "God." Forget, also, the silly notion that stuff simply springs into being all by itself. We don't have any example of real spontaneity happening anywhere. Rather, look at science and see the machines, and then apply this kind of thinking to the idea of machine making. Who or what made the machines of the universe. Whoever or whatever made the machines of nature had super-great ability.

If you ignore the machine maker(s) of nature, or that there could be any such thing(s), you are turning away from science and what science is discovering and using... that nature is made up of machines, and is collectively a gigantic machine. In addition, you are turning away from the kind of logic that made you question the nuns.

Cool

I am an engineer, I would never design nature the way it is.  No engineer would. - No engineer is smart enough to even begin to seriously think about how to design something like nature.

Nature is more like a wild, self-evolving energy monster, that eats everything in its path, releasing matter and energy that forms other monsters. There is absolutely no design in it. Energy conversion, that is about it. - All of nature operates through the laws of physics, by cause and effect. Therre is no evolution beyond the change that C&E provides.

There is an appearance of design to an untrained eye because one looks through a very small time window without understanding what came before and why.  Thanks to Biology we have a pretty good handle on how life evolved over time. - Microscopic C&E is a rather large window. Adaptation, like-begets-like and simple change fit life way better and easier than evolution does.

We are on an energy yo-yo cycle that started with the Big Bang and will most likely end with the Big Crunch, and the cycle will repeat itself with a different set of physical constants.  The process will repeat itself until a new, stable universe will be formed with physical constants suitable to sustain observers. - Big Band and Big Crunch are fun science fiction. Neither takes into account more than a particle of the reality that exists.

Nature is cruel, unforgiving, but pretty cool in its own way. - Like when a doctor doesn't have any control over broken bones mending, and skin growing back together, but nature does it?

There are a lot of unknowns in nature.  Science uncovers and solves them one by one. - And there are so many that a thousand years won't give modern science enough time to solve more than a smattering of them.

So don't jump to the "magician did it" answer when you don't know what the unknown is, never mind how it came about. - But that's essentially what some scientists do when they believe Big Bang and Evolution are real without any proof for them.

And for fuck's sake stop the "Judeo-Christain ideology is the answer to everything" BS.  If we stuck following it, we would still be hungry and wet in some caves, wiping our asses with leaves, waiting for the Sun to come up. - Thank Goodness for the Judeo-Christian ideology. It's the only thing that keeps you from being "hungry and wet in some" cave, "wiping" your ass "with leaves, waiting for the Sun to come up." Christianity is based on Judaism, and together they are the way to eternal life.

Religion does not solve anything, it just takes away your money and your time.  It makes you emotionally dependent on it and blinds you so that you cannot see the world the way it really is.

Since you know this about religion, get away from you faith-based science that has nothing to back it up other than speculation... before you turn it into a religion any more than you have already.

Cool

As always, you leave me speechless. 

The education system has failed you.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
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December 12, 2018, 12:53:51 AM
 #849


Democratic rule does not prevent tyranny it is not exempt from injustice and immorally. Review the history of Athens if you want to understand this better.


Even far from it!

There is no way to prevent tyranny in a group of different individuals in my experience. Whatever the group and its members, whatever the system, there will always a time where a large majority will say "we do this" ignoring de facto a minority who will get imposed something they don't want.

Democracy is a beautiful word but hiding a complex submissive/dominant reality. People are uprising when you say that democracy isn't perfect and isn't morally good, that it's just an organization system that has its flaws...

I would say that democracy is a bit better over complete dictatorship but there must be even better forms of organization keeping more freedom directly in the hands of the people.

At the end the day the character of the government is dependent on the character of the people. If a population is greedy, lustful, envious, and slothful they will favor leaders and support causes that pander to these vices. Quality of life and governance in general will worsen and the best a systems of checks and balances can do is slow the decay. Similarly if a population is prudent, just, courageous, and charitable then they will elect leaders and support causes promote these virtues.

The real challenge of improving governance over the long term is how do we improve the moral character and virtue of human beings?  This is no small task. Indeed it is the most important aspect of progress. Technological advancement is secondary.  

There is where the Atheist go wrong. Their solutions here always fail. They sometimes go totally nuts and assume humans are some kind of perfect creature if only the environment was adjusted. Thus leads them to crazy ideas like communism which if you read the actual ideology might work ok for a population of perfect selfless sinless angels but predictably collapses into contradiction, horror, and tyranny when applied to actual human beings.

Or they go the other way and embrace total relativism. They deny the existence of good and evil altogether everything is just preference. There is no value in anything. Anything socially accepted is "good" anything not is "bad". This leads to a willful self-annihilation as I noted a few posts back. It also lead many atheist leaders to favor drastic population reductions as a way of maintaining control. They grow fearful of an unruly population and their dependence on an unsustainable debt bubble to keep that population happy thus they start to desire the extermination of said population. This is a time honored strategy of tyrants and well documented. It is even described in the Bible as widespread at the time of Moses birth.

The answer to the challenge of good governance is that every generation must prioritize the moral improvement of each individual citizen. This is the necessary prerequisite to ensure future generations will be better off then current generations. God is necessary to this process for without God we are lost in a sea of moral relativism. Without God we can't even define objective good and evil let alone moral improvement.
 
How Do We Make Society Better?

So what you are saying is human beings need Bronze Age God-given moral rules to have a 'properly' functioning society. 
Anything else will fail in your personal assessment?

Would this work with any God, or only with your God?

So I am guessing Saudi Arabia picked the wrong God, even though it is Judeo-Christian God 2.0.  How about Osiris, Zeus, Ra?  Would they work?

You are full of it and you don't even know it.

Why are you rejecting all these other Gods?  Why?

Provide proof that these other Gods are false Gods, and you'll have a proof why your God is a false God.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
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December 12, 2018, 01:08:45 AM
 #850


As always, you leave me speechless. 

The education system has failed you.

Wow! You even admit that you are the one who is speehless! And then you think that the education system has failed me? LOL!

Cool

Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz !
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December 12, 2018, 07:24:53 AM
Last edit: December 12, 2018, 07:51:47 AM by CoinCube
 #851


So what you are saying is human beings need Bronze Age God-given moral rules to have maintain a 'properly' free and functioning society.  Anything else will fail in your personal assessment?

Yes this is my position.

Would this work with any God, or only with your God?

I am unaware of any other organizing framework that appears capable of sustaining the necessary cooperation over time without collapsing into tyranny. Certainly if our goal is only maintaining order there are lots of dystopian options available. Absolute tyranny is good at order.

So I am guessing Saudi Arabia picked the wrong God, even though it is Judeo-Christian God 2.0.  How about Osiris, Zeus, Ra?  Would they work?
...
Why are you rejecting all these other Gods?  Why?

Provide proof that these other Gods are false Gods...

If you understand the a priori of God you understand that God is infinite. Thus it logically follows that the God of Islam, Judaism, Christianity, and any other branches of monotheism are the same God. Infinite by definition means all encompassing.

The differences between these religions represent different understandings of the optimal human relationship with regards to God not different Gods. The three faiths by and large all acknowledge this.

Similarly if an infinite God exists it follows logically that any possible polytheistic entity must either not exist or exist as a dependent of God a creation of God if you will. This again is simple logical deduction derived from the first axiom that an infinite God exists.

As for Saudi Arabia that is a sad state of affairs. The Quran has numerous verses that emphasize belief in the one universal God who judges people according to their behavior. The Quran also states explicitly that in matters of faith there shall be no coercion. Sadly we know that other interpretations and xenophobic elements often predominant.

Borrowing the words of Dennis Prager:
"Muslims need what most Christians and Jews have experienced - separation of church and state; interaction with other faiths and with modernity; and reform. Islam needs to compete with secularism, not outlaw it, and to allow competing ideologies within Islam. In religion, as in politics, when there is no competition, there is corruption and intolerance."

You are full of it and you don't even know it.

It's no surprise you feel this way. I have accepted a first axiom that you have rejected. I believe in an infinite creator and you do not.

You therefore feel that I am "full of it" and I in turn feel you are blind.

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December 12, 2018, 10:20:49 AM
Last edit: December 12, 2018, 12:40:36 PM by af_newbie
 #852


So what you are saying is human beings need Bronze Age God-given moral rules to have maintain a 'properly' free and functioning society.  Anything else will fail in your personal assessment?

Yes this is my position.

Would this work with any God, or only with your God?

I am unaware of any other organizing framework that appears capable of sustaining the necessary cooperation over time without collapsing into tyranny. Certainly if our goal is only maintaining order there are lots of dystopian options available. Absolute tyranny is good at order.

So I am guessing Saudi Arabia picked the wrong God, even though it is Judeo-Christian God 2.0.  How about Osiris, Zeus, Ra?  Would they work?
...
Why are you rejecting all these other Gods?  Why?

Provide proof that these other Gods are false Gods...

If you understand the a priori of God you understand that God is infinite. Thus it logically follows that the God of Islam, Judaism, Christianity, and any other branches of monotheism are the same God. Infinite by definition means all encompassing.

The differences between these religions represent different understandings of the optimal human relationship with regards to God not different Gods. The three faiths by and large all acknowledge this.

Similarly if an infinite God exists it follows logically that any possible polytheistic entity must either not exist or exist as a dependent of God a creation of God if you will. This again is simple logical deduction derived from the first axiom that an infinite God exists.

As for Saudi Arabia that is a sad state of affairs. The Quran has numerous verses that emphasize belief in the one universal God who judges people according to their behavior. The Quran also states explicitly that in matters of faith there shall be no coercion. Sadly we know that other interpretations and xenophobic elements often predominant.

Borrowing the words of Dennis Prager:
"Muslims need what most Christians and Jews have experienced - separation of church and state; interaction with other faiths and with modernity; and reform. Islam needs to compete with secularism, not outlaw it, and to allow competing ideologies within Islam. In religion, as in politics, when there is no competition, there is corruption and intolerance."

You are full of it and you don't even know it.

It's no surprise you feel this way. I have accepted a first axiom that you have rejected. I believe in an infinite creator and you do not.

You therefore feel that I am "full of it" and I in turn feel you are blind.

1. Again, why don't you worship Zeus?

2. Saudi Arabia is a very good example of what the Judeo-Christian state would look like.  Have you seen what Hasidic Jewish communities look like?

3. Just because your carefully constructed delusion provides you with some psychological comfort, it does not mean it is the right thing to do.  Illicit drugs or alcohol have the same effect yet we warn people not to use them as they are addictive and cause long-term harm, just like your delusion,  BTW.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
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December 12, 2018, 03:13:35 PM
 #853


Religion does not solve anything, it just takes away your money and your time.  It makes you emotionally dependent on it and blinds you so that you cannot see the world the way it really is.


What doesn't?

That's not a real argument here. All distractions, education... Human activities in general do that. It's just that it fits your moral code and your views of society but why should your point of view be superior to others?

Some people use science to improve mandkind, others to create horrible products they can sell for their own sakes. Some people use religion to get power and abuse the weaks, other as a path to make humanity grow.

L'Abbé Pierre is a French Resistant who created one of the best association completely devoted to the poors, and he did all that because of the stupid religion that doesn't solve anything...

Religion is a path and it's up to you on how you walk it.

Why is it that when a Muslim goes on rampage it's all "He's not real muslim" or "that's not Islam" but when a Christian does something bad everyone forget all the positive things Christianity has brought to us?
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December 12, 2018, 03:21:58 PM
 #854


Religion is a path and it's up to you on how you walk it.

Why is it that when a Muslim goes on rampage it's all "He's not real muslim" or "that's not Islam" but when a Christian does something bad everyone forget all the positive things Christianity has brought to us?

Cool, so it is not "what" you believe but "how" you use your belief to benefit humanity.

I like this take!

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December 12, 2018, 04:11:50 PM
 #855

1. Again, why don't you worship Zeus?

Because Zeus is not worthy of worship.


2. Saudi Arabia is a very good example of what the Judeo-Christian state would look like.  Have you seen what Hasidic Jewish communities look like?

Yes I have and your comparison is poor. A better comparison would be to comparing them to the Amish. Did you know that Judaism is decentralized? Each synagogue and rabbi are not bound by the decisions/interpretations of other synagogues. Similarly individuals within Judaism are free to change to a different synagogue if they wish though this might require moving. The different denominations of Christianity provide a similar function.

No one intelligent wants a state church. That is a terrible idea and a recipe for religious oppression as history shows. A population that is largely and voluntary grounded in the Judeo-Christian tradition is not a state church.

3. Just because your carefully constructed delusion provides you with some psychological comfort, it does not mean it is the right thing to do.  

It's not about psychological comfort that is tangential. Ultimately understanding God is about accurately understanding reality and bringing our lives into alignment with said reality.

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December 12, 2018, 04:15:25 PM
 #856

1. Again, why don't you worship Zeus?

Because Zeus is not worthy of worship.


This argument is what atheists use for God.

Atheists believe that God is not worthy of worship

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December 12, 2018, 04:22:56 PM
 #857

1. Again, why don't you worship Zeus?

Because Zeus is not worthy of worship.


I am not going to even ask how did you determine that.  Too tired to deconstruct your delusion in full glory.

Are you sure Zeus is not worthy?  I have a book that says otherwise.

Now you know how I feel about YOUR God.  The same way you feel about Zeus.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
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December 12, 2018, 04:31:54 PM
 #858


Now you know how I feel about YOUR God.

The same way you feel about science and yourself.    Cool

Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz !
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December 12, 2018, 04:49:21 PM
 #859


This argument is what atheists use for God.

Atheists believe that God is not worthy of worship


Yes they do usually with illogical emotionally laden arguments that typically fall into one of three categories.

1) Nature is cruel thus I decry God.
2) Humans are cruel thus I decry God.
3) I enjoy (insert vice here) and God forbids it thus I decry God.

The arguments are flawed, but to fully appreciate this you must first answer the question of what makes something worthy of worship. Then you can apply that assessment to God. Ultimately each individual needs to decide for themselves.

I found the following book an interesting read. It addresses the common arguments above and others and does so with a very logical approach and structure.

https://www.amazon.com/Rational-Bible-Exodus-Dennis-Prager/dp/1621577724

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December 12, 2018, 04:54:44 PM
 #860


I am not going to even ask how did you determine that.  Too tired to deconstruct your delusion in full glory.


Then I won't answer how I determined that. =)
Your wish is granted.

Ultimately people need to decide for themselves what is worthy of worship and why.

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