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Author Topic: Why do you believe God exists?  (Read 7579 times)
CoinCube
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October 16, 2018, 09:23:23 PM
Last edit: October 16, 2018, 09:46:19 PM by CoinCube
 #481

...
Today, people just know better.  Religions exist today only because our parents force us to believe in them at a risk of losing relationships with our family and friends.

The exuberant irrationality of religion is poignantly manifested in as much as this idea and all it entails, being amongst other things, grandiose, almighty, omnipresent etc., can take preference over, exceed and outdo the full qualitative value and meaning of having someone tangible right in front of you, a fellow human being with all manner of interactions to your avail - completely and utterly startling.

I think dippididodaday inadvertently makes a good case for why you are incorrect about this point af_newbie. I disagree with him only where he describes the phenomenon as irrational as noted in the quote.  He captures well the shear power of religion.

It's not something that is entirely dependent on parent to child  transmission or social networks those those certainly play a role in transmitting and sustaining it.

We have no evidence that any God (of any kind) exists

Many would disagree with you. They would point to the natural world or written tradition as evidence. You would likely challenge that evidence with materialism and a dismissal of the historical accounts as fantasy.

At a minimum, however, if you are logical you must concede the following. We have no evidence God does not exist.


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October 16, 2018, 10:05:07 PM
 #482

...
Today, people just know better.  Religions exist today only because our parents force us to believe in them at a risk of losing relationships with our family and friends.

The exuberant irrationality of religion is poignantly manifested in as much as this idea and all it entails, being amongst other things, grandiose, almighty, omnipresent etc., can take preference over, exceed and outdo the full qualitative value and meaning of having someone tangible right in front of you, a fellow human being with all manner of interactions to your avail - completely and utterly startling.

I think dippididodaday inadvertently makes a good case for why you are incorrect about this point af_newbie. I disagree with him only where he describes the phenomenon as irrational as noted in the quote.  He captures well the shear power of religion.

It's not something that is entirely dependent on parent to child  transmission or social networks those those certainly play a role in transmitting and sustaining it.

We have no evidence that any God (of any kind) exists

Many would disagree with you. They would point to the natural world or written tradition as evidence. You would likely challenge that evidence with materialism and a dismissal of the historical accounts as fantasy.

At a minimum, however, if you are logical you must concede the following. We have no evidence God does not exist.

It depends on how you define God.  If God is some entity that created the first man out of dirt and the first woman out of a rib bone, 6000 years ago, well, that God does not exist, it was just imagined by very primitive people.  Today, we know that life has evolved from a single cell bacteria.

I cannot say that there is evidence that any God exists because there is none. 
We cannot prove that some pantheistic God does not exist.  There is no data either way.

What we can do is look at the religions and invalidate the tenets of the scriptures.  Scientific errors alone disqualify them as a source of any wisdom, never mind evidence of the supernatural.

So I can prove to you that the "Gods" of all major religions do not exist, however, I cannot prove to you that some pantheistic God does not exist.

The question of God existence or non-existence is not even a scientific question.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
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October 16, 2018, 10:18:16 PM
 #483

...
Today, people just know better.  Religions exist today only because our parents force us to believe in them at a risk of losing relationships with our family and friends.

The exuberant irrationality of religion is poignantly manifested in as much as this idea and all it entails, being amongst other things, grandiose, almighty, omnipresent etc., can take preference over, exceed and outdo the full qualitative value and meaning of having someone tangible right in front of you, a fellow human being with all manner of interactions to your avail - completely and utterly startling.



Except that people who want to leave religions do value human relationships more than those imagined ones.

People stay in religions despite the fact that they don't fully agree with the tenets only because they love other human beings.

Children continue to believe in parent's Santa Claus because they love their parents and don't want to hurt them.
Parents are deluded enough to force their religion on their children.

That is how religions propagate.

If you are interested in this, talk to ex-Muslims.  Probably the hardest religion to break out of.

We are all born into one religion or other.  Very few people alive today were born in Atheist families.

This, of course, will change in the future as more and more people lose faith in the supernatural.


Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
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October 16, 2018, 10:25:20 PM
 #484


So I can prove to you that the "Gods" of all major religions do not exist, however, I cannot prove to you that some pantheistic God does not exist.

The question of God existence or non-existence is not even a scientific question.


Just one final point for clarity sake.

If cannot disprove a pantheistic God then you also also cannot disprove a faith centered on the worship of such an entity.

The most you can do is demonstrate that a particular religion's understanding must be incomplete or lacking using whatever logical inconsistencies you identify in their texts.

I agree that the question of God existence or non-existence is not a scientific question. Science alone is only a tool and too narrow a framework to fully evaluate the universe and our place within it.

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October 16, 2018, 10:55:03 PM
 #485


So I can prove to you that the "Gods" of all major religions do not exist, however, I cannot prove to you that some pantheistic God does not exist.

The question of God existence or non-existence is not even a scientific question.


Just one final point for clarity sake.

If cannot disprove a pantheistic God then you also also cannot disprove a faith centered on the worship of such an entity.

The most you can do is demonstrate that a particular religion's understanding must be incomplete or lacking using whatever logical inconsistencies you identify in their texts.

I agree that the question of God existence or non-existence is not a scientific question. Science alone is only a tool and too narrow a framework to fully evaluate the universe and our place within it.

How can you prove or disprove faith?  People believe what they believe.  You can look at their brain scans when they see religious images vs non-religious images and compare the data.

BTW, I also cannot prove that there does not exist a large bean in the center of the Moon that is controlling traffic in the New York City.   Not sure where you going with it.  If you are asking me if I agree with people who believe in Pantheism, well, I think there is no difference between them and believing in anything that we cannot prove not to exist.  They might as well believe in tooth fairies.

How do you prove that A does not exist if you cannot prove that A does exist?

If you can prove that A does exist, then you automatically prove that A does not exist, not the other way around.

There is an infinite number of things that you cannot prove that they do not exist.

PS. I support people's right to believe in the supernatural nonsense the same way I support people's right to be mentally sick.

As for the God of the Gaps, well, we do have unknowns, let's leave them unknowns until they become known.



Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
CoinCube
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October 16, 2018, 11:56:58 PM
 #486


we need to assume something is true, because we will never have infinite knowledge. have to assume something, then you can build everything else on top of that.


Agreed

However many today suffer from a peculiar form of delusion. They assume a nihilistic materialism is true while strenuously denying they are making any assumptions. It's really quite bizarre.

That said af_newbie and I are similar in some ways.

You see just like him I support people's right to believe in nihilistic nonsense the same way I support people's right to be mentally sick.

The difference between us is that I can point to numerous scientific studies that support my view that such nonsense actually makes you sick as it is correlated with both reduced physical and mental wellbeing and he cannot.

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October 17, 2018, 12:09:10 AM
 #487

How can you prove or disprove faith?  People believe what they believe.  

You can't. That's why I cannot disprove your nihilistic materialism.

The only thing you can do is invite people to consider another perspective.

C.S. Lewis does this well as I highlighted earlier.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg46859248#msg46859248

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October 17, 2018, 12:51:44 AM
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 #488

How can you prove or disprove faith?  People believe what they believe.  

You can't. That's why I cannot disprove your nihilistic materialism.

The only thing you can do is invite people to consider another perspective.

C.S. Lewis does this well as I highlighted earlier.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg46859248#msg46859248

I thought we went through this before.  My position is based on Science (Biology, Chemistry, Physics).

Science has been proven to be the best way to find the truth.

Any position outside of Science cannot be proven to be true because the methods used are subjective. 

The scientific method is objective.

Good night boys and girls. LOL.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
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October 17, 2018, 12:54:46 AM
 #489

{quote]af_newbie]"The question of God existence or non-existence is not even a scientific question."
it is most certainly a scientific question; just because you cant use your scientific method dont mean you cant use another.
{quote]af_newbie]"We are all born into one religion or other.  Very few people alive today were born in Atheist families.

This, of course, will change in the future as more and more people lose faith in the supernatural."

very few people were born in atheist families because atheists create fewer babes; see where this would go? maybe an endless cycle, but not change without some new thing to change peoples minds on a massive scale.

people see the same evidence, and take it as evidence for different beliefs; people see evidence and dont even see the same evidence.
we always see everything through the lens of our own worldviews. we use worldviews to interpret what we see. so,, iwas taught creationist
sphell, and so take everything ive learned with this lens. the existance of God is a scientific fact. standard geology is error, big bang cosmology is error, plate tectonics is error, bacteria evolving into hyenas and snakes evolving into birds is error; i wont say darwinism is error, as i love to look at insects and other creatures and think about how they evolved/adapted;(survival of the fittest can be a useful theory, but maybe i misuse darwinism in this writing.)  i like to think of my philosophy as darwinistic, i think of myself as a darwinist, but maybe im delusional.

{qoute]af_newbie]"As for the God of the Gaps, well, we do have unknowns, let's leave them unknowns until they become known."

we need to assume something is true, because we will never have infinite knowledge. have to assume something, then you can build everything else on top of that.



Ok, whatever you say chief. Learn how to use the keyboard.  "{" vs "[", use the Preview button.

I think you are overly excited to disagree with me.

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October 17, 2018, 06:43:42 AM
 #490


In addition, since I was a child, I was delivered and taught about the Lord who created the whole world and the LORD who determined our direction, and I believe that because of the daily life that I get and sometimes it makes no sense to get help from the Lord.

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October 17, 2018, 04:04:23 PM
 #491

for the first point I disagree with you, in my opinion if born in Saudi Arabia is not necessarily Muslim, because in Saudi Arabia there are also other religions such as Christianity, belief in religion depends on each other. someone's trust can change after adulthood, like the example of a little Christian time but after adulthood it turns into an atheis

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October 17, 2018, 04:14:16 PM
 #492

There is no evidence of anything magically appearing in this world, Look at buildings, cars and the aeroplanes,  they were all made and it shows that everything has a creator so that means that Human Being who has made all these things must also have a creator,  it's just logical.



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Astargath
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October 17, 2018, 06:51:47 PM
 #493

There is no evidence of anything magically appearing in this world, Look at buildings, cars and the aeroplanes,  they were all made and it shows that everything has a creator so that means that Human Being who has made all these things must also have a creator,  it's just logical.

There is plenty of evidence of simple living beings evolving to really complex animals, they didn't need a creator.
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October 17, 2018, 08:47:20 PM
 #494

There is no evidence of anything magically appearing in this world, Look at buildings, cars and the aeroplanes,  they were all made and it shows that everything has a creator so that means that Human Being who has made all these things must also have a creator,  it's just logical.

There is plenty of evidence of simple living beings evolving to really complex animals, they didn't need a creator.

Spontaneous and autonomous emergence of complex behavior is not evidence against a creator.
 
For Example:

Google's DeepMind AI Just Taught Itself To Walk
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gn4nRCC9TwQ

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October 17, 2018, 10:10:55 PM
 #495

There is no evidence of anything magically appearing in this world, Look at buildings, cars and the aeroplanes,  they were all made and it shows that everything has a creator so that means that Human Being who has made all these things must also have a creator,  it's just logical.

There is plenty of evidence of simple living beings evolving to really complex animals, they didn't need a creator.

Spontaneous and autonomous emergence of complex behavior is not evidence against a creator.
 
For Example:

Google's DeepMind AI Just Taught Itself To Walk
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gn4nRCC9TwQ

There is no evidence of a creator, there is evidence that we evolved though.

And no, you can't prove god, using ''logic''.
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October 17, 2018, 10:21:23 PM
 #496

There is no evidence of anything magically appearing in this world, Look at buildings, cars and the aeroplanes,  they were all made and it shows that everything has a creator so that means that Human Being who has made all these things must also have a creator,  it's just logical.

There is plenty of evidence of simple living beings evolving to really complex animals, they didn't need a creator.

Spontaneous and autonomous emergence of complex behavior is not evidence against a creator.
 
For Example:

Google's DeepMind AI Just Taught Itself To Walk
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gn4nRCC9TwQ

There is no evidence of a creator, there is evidence that we evolved though.

And no, you can't prove god, using ''logic''.

Who needs evidence since we have proof - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.0 ?

Basic proof for God:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380.

More proof for God - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg46997819#msg46997819

Cool

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October 28, 2018, 01:46:04 PM
 #497

Birth , the rotation of earth , the sun ...
All makes me think that what is the driving force behind it? If you say sun is just helium ball then from where helium came??
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October 28, 2018, 11:45:24 PM
 #498

wow, such an interesting topic. especially for an atheist. i`m not close to religion at all, it doesn`t run in my family. so i even don`t understand what religious people feel. and the comments are very readable for me

This topic might be interesting in some ways, but what about scientific proof? Check out the Scientific proof that God exists? - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.0 - thread. I mean, recognizing that God exists, and that He made everything, is the start to finding out about salvation... resurrection... life from death... everlasting life. I mean, if He can make it once, why can't He make it again?

It's a start.

Cool

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October 30, 2018, 07:29:24 PM
 #499

wow, such an interesting topic. especially for an atheist. i`m not close to religion at all, it doesn`t run in my family. so i even don`t understand what religious people feel. and the comments are very readable for me

This topic might be interesting in some ways, but what about scientific proof? Check out the Scientific proof that God exists? - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.0 - thread. I mean, recognizing that God exists, and that He made everything, is the start to finding out about salvation... resurrection... life from death... everlasting life. I mean, if He can make it once, why can't He make it again?

It's a start.

Cool

You are still unable to prove the universe had 1 cause and not multiple so...
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October 31, 2018, 02:48:37 AM
 #500

I believe in God. But I don't believe that my religion is above all others. Now as to why... Well, I don't really have any. I just do. I question his existence at times and ask why this and that happens but I can still say that I do believe in him. It's just based on my belief though.
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