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Author Topic: Why do you believe God exists?  (Read 7853 times)
af_newbie
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December 08, 2018, 04:11:02 PM
 #781


The fact is that god is not a scientific theory, hypothesis or anything, it's just religion. It's by definition something that you have to believe in based on faith, not evidence, which is what everyone does. Faith is not a good path to the truth, that's also a fact.

In my opinion, the experiences with God are not necessarily based on faith or belief. Some people have experienced true, personal, life changing miracles that prove to them God is real. To them, they don't need to believe in God, they know God exists.

''have experienced true, personal, life changing miracles that prove to them God is real.'' This is by definition faith. It's called delusion. How do they know it's true? They don't, there is no evidence, therefore it's faith.

Yes, but they believe their experiences were real, they don't need us to believe them. They know what they saw, we don't know what they saw. We don't believe them, we call them "delusional"

The definition of faith would be never having any experience of any sort and still believe in God, that is faith. I think it is completely different.

They are delusional because other people don't see what they see.  So by the definition, they are delusional.  Many people in the mental wards see things that others don't see.

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December 08, 2018, 04:20:05 PM
 #782


They are delusional because other people don't see what they see.  So by the definition, they are delusional.  Many people in the mental wards see things that others don't see.


These guys are not mentally ill though, they are practitioners of major religious institutions, they are church leaders and pastors etc. We are forcing God into a box by saying that God must do this or do that in order for us to believe.

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December 08, 2018, 04:39:33 PM
 #783


They are delusional because other people don't see what they see.  So by the definition, they are delusional.  Many people in the mental wards see things that others don't see.


These guys are not mentally ill though, they are practitioners of major religious institutions, they are church leaders and pastors etc. We are forcing God into a box by saying that God must do this or do that in order for us to believe.

How do you know?  There are many people who have not been diagnosed yet.  Many politicians, CEOs are psychopaths.  Religious people who hear or see things that are not real are mentally sick.   Anyone who hears or sees things that are not real (Jesus or Muhammad riding on buraq are good examples) is insane.

Sometimes your mental illness will still allow you to function in today's society without causing too much harm to yourself or others.  There are of course the Jesus camps for kids etc. which cause some real and life lasting harm.
 
Look up the definitions before you proclaim your truths.

There is nothing to debate.  We all share the same reality, and if someone perceives this reality differently, well, they are either geniuses or delusional.

In the future, religious beliefs will be classified as mental delusions.  It is a matter of time.  Science will march forward and push the Bronze Age myths to the footprints of history.

Once the church will lose its political power, the con will be over.

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December 08, 2018, 04:44:37 PM
 #784


There is nothing to debate.  We all share the same reality, and if someone perceives this reality differently, well, they are either geniuses or delusional.

Is it possible that these guys are geniuses?  Grin

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December 08, 2018, 05:00:37 PM
 #785


There is nothing to debate.  We all share the same reality, and if someone perceives this reality differently, well, they are either geniuses or delusional.

Is it possible that these guys are geniuses?  Grin

If they are, the world is full of geniuses. Why? The Bible is the most-published, most-distributed book of all time. And the world is full of religions, including aspects of science.

Cool

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December 08, 2018, 07:44:05 PM
 #786


Professor Valentina Zharkova is a tenured professor Mathematician and Astrophysicist. Her model of solar cycles is entirely reproducible, and accurately accounts for prior global temperature variations with a greater then 90% accuracy. It also entirely repudiates the current global warming narrative so it is ignored.

Professor Valentina Zharkova: The Solar Magnet Field and the Terrestrial Climate
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M_yqIj38UmY&feature=youtu.be

How many people will take the 90 minutes to watch Professor Zharkova's presentation?  Very few most will prefer to just be told the answer by the media the Pope or whoever else is whispering in their ear.

Truth is like that. Often hidden away in the background present but not demanding or forceful. It patiently waits for people to get tired of their current falsehood and approach it when they are ready.

Scientific theories are the best explanation for a specific thing though. Also global warming is not a scientific theory. The fact is that god is not a scientific theory, hypothesis or anything, it's just religion. It's by definition something that you have to believe in based on faith, not evidence, which is what everyone does. Faith is not a good path to the truth, that's also a fact.

There been an increase in temperature over recent decades that is established scientific fact. The global measured increase is just under 1 degree centigrade over the last 100 years or so.
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/GlobalWarming/page2.php

The idea that the warming is caused by human activity, however, is unproven theory.

We know from the historical record that there have been large swings in temperature in the distant past long before mankind could have had any appreciable impact on the climate.

The default hypothesis should thus be that observed temperature variations are not caused by humans until we have ruled out external factors like cyclical variations solar output or orbital mechanics as a primary cause.

Did you know that Mars is currently undergoing global warming too?
https://m.washingtontimes.com

Man made global warming is a theory one that is widely accepted by climate scientists. It's also probably false.

If you want to understand what is actually going to happen with climate in the next few decades I really do recommend watching Professor Zharkova video above her research and reproducible model is in my opinion a genuine scientific breakthrough.

You can already see the signs of retreat. The global warming salesman know they will soon be exposed as charlatans. That is why global warming has morphed into "Climate Change". I will laugh if it goes full on Orwellian and we start hearing about how man made CO2 is causing global cooling.

Scientific theories are only the best explanation for something if they are arrived at from a genuine objective search for truth rather then an attempted to secure funding or drive an agenda. Even then they only represent the most plausible answer based on our current information. Other possibilities exists and it is always a mistake to confuse theory with fact.

God is an a priori Truth. If you take the time to learn epistemology you will learn that all knowledge including scientific knowledge has a priori at its foundation.

It is no coincidence that the corruption of modern science is occurring simultaneously with the rise of atheism among scientists.

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December 08, 2018, 07:55:00 PM
 #787


Professor Valentina Zharkova is a tenured professor Mathematician and Astrophysicist. Her model of solar cycles is entirely reproducible, and accurately accounts for prior global temperature variations with a greater then 90% accuracy. It also entirely repudiates the current global warming narrative so it is ignored.

Professor Valentina Zharkova: The Solar Magnet Field and the Terrestrial Climate
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M_yqIj38UmY&feature=youtu.be

How many people will take the 90 minutes to watch Professor Zharkova's presentation?  Very few most will prefer to just be told the answer by the media the Pope or whoever else is whispering in their ear.

Truth is like that. Often hidden away in the background present but not demanding or forceful. It patiently waits for people to get tired of their current falsehood and approach it when they are ready.

Scientific theories are the best explanation for a specific thing though. Also global warming is not a scientific theory. The fact is that god is not a scientific theory, hypothesis or anything, it's just religion. It's by definition something that you have to believe in based on faith, not evidence, which is what everyone does. Faith is not a good path to the truth, that's also a fact.

There been an increase in temperature over recent decades that is established scientific fact. The global measured increase is just under 1 degree centigrade over the last 100 years or so.
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/GlobalWarming/page2.php

The idea that the warming is caused by human activity, however, is unproven theory.

We know from the historical record that there have been large swings in temperature in the distant past long before mankind could have had any appreciable impact on the climate.

The default hypothesis should thus be that observed temperature variations are not caused by humans until we have ruled out external factors like cyclical variations solar output or orbital mechanics as a primary cause.

Did you know that Mars is currently undergoing global warming too?
https://m.washingtontimes.com

Man made global warming is a theory one that is widely accepted by climate scientists. It's also probably false.

If you want to understand what is actually going to happen with climate in the next few decades I really do recommend watching Professor Zharkova video above her research and reproducible model is in my opinion a genuine scientific breakthrough.

You can already see the signs of retreat. The global warming salesman know they will soon be exposed as charlatans. That is why global warming has morphed into "Climate Change". I will laugh if it goes full on Orwellian and we start hearing about how man made CO2 is causing global cooling.

Scientific theories are only the best explanation for something if they are arrived at from a genuine objective search for truth rather then an attempted to secure funding or drive an agenda. Even then they only represent the most plausible answer based on our current information. Other possibilities exists and it is always a mistake to confuse theory with fact.

God is an a priori Truth. If you take the time to learn epistemology you will learn that all knowledge including scientific knowledge has a priori at its foundation.

It is no coincidence that the corruption of modern science is occurring simultaneously with the rise of atheism among scientists.

I'm well aware of your arguments supporting god. They are indeed better than 99% of religious nutjobs or badecker. They are however just another silly try to justify your beliefs in God. You are obviously intellectual an cannot accept god exists without any evidence so you have to have something. Your arguments however fail because they can be applied to any kind of God, even one that you could make up right now.

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December 08, 2018, 07:58:01 PM
 #788


In the future, religious beliefs will be classified as mental delusions.  It is a matter of time.  Science will march forward


This has happened before and will happen again. Every tyrannical regime seeks to suppress belief in God for belief in God and the laws that derive from that belief ultimately undermine tyrannical control.

Thus belief in God must be attacked or at least twisted and controlled by any seeking to impose a coercive system upon humanity.

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December 08, 2018, 08:15:13 PM
 #789


In the future, religious beliefs will be classified as mental delusions.  It is a matter of time.  Science will march forward


This has happened before and will happen again. Every tyrannical regime seeks to suppress belief in God for belief in God and the laws that derive from that belief ultimately undermine tyrannical control.

Thus belief in God must be attacked or at least twisted and controlled by any seeking to impose a coercive system upon humanity.

I thought the religious regimes were/are the most tyrannical.  Maybe you got this backward.

Secularism is what brought women's rights, gay rights, equality of races and genders etc.  Which thought is more flexible, religious or secular?

Which system is more coercive?  Secular or religious one?  Think about it before you post again.

Hint: Secular does not necessarily mean communist, socialist or some other dictatorial system. 

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December 08, 2018, 09:49:23 PM
Last edit: December 08, 2018, 11:43:21 PM by CoinCube
 #790


I thought the religious regimes were/are the most tyrannical.  Maybe you got this backward.

Secularism is what brought women's rights, gay rights, equality of races and genders etc.  Which thought is more flexible, religious or secular?

Which system is more coercive?  Secular or religious one?  Think about it before you post again.

Hint: Secular does not necessarily mean communist, socialist or some other dictatorial system.  

Freedom comes from moral self-control. There is no other way to achieve it.

The West especially Europe has forgotten this which is why freedom is now in decline throughout the western world. If you look at our current secular society and don't see the stagnation increasing corruption and intellectual incoherence and yes declining freedom then you have closed your eyes to reality.

This video from Prager University highlightes this point well.

Freedom and Moral Self-Control

There are all sorts of historical and tyrannical regimes founded in religion. From ancient Egypt which invested tyrannical powers in their god king Pharoh to modern day North Korea which proclaims divine proprieties in its leader Kim Jong-Un.

What is common to all of these tyrannical regimes is their incompatibility with the Judeo-Christian tradition. This is why every tyranny eventually turns its arrows or guns on Christians and Jews. They represent an existential threat to tyranny.

Christians in case you didn't know are the most persecuted group in the world currently. Last year approximately 100,000 Christians were killed because of their beliefs.

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December 08, 2018, 10:43:22 PM
 #791


In the future, religious beliefs will be classified as mental delusions.  It is a matter of time.  Science will march forward


This has happened before and will happen again. Every tyrannical regime seeks to suppress belief in God for belief in God and the laws that derive from that belief ultimately undermine tyrannical control.

Thus belief in God must be attacked or at least twisted and controlled by any seeking to impose a coercive system upon humanity.

I thought the religious regimes were/are the most tyrannical.  Maybe you got this backward.

Secularism is what brought women's rights, gay rights, equality of races and genders etc.  Which thought is more flexible, religious or secular?

Which system is more coercive?  Secular or religious one?  Think about it before you post again.

Hint: Secular does not necessarily mean communist, socialist or some other dictatorial system. 

You are right. As you said, the secularism religion brought all that stuff you mentioned, which is some of the most tyrannical stuff around.

Cool

BUDESONIDE essentially cures Covid symptoms in one day to one week >>> https://budesonideworks.com/.
Hydroxychloroquine is being used against Covid with great success >>> https://altcensored.com/watch?v=otRN0X6F81c.
Masks are stupid. Watch the first 5 minutes >>> https://www.bitchute.com/video/rlWESmrijl8Q/.
Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin. Thank you. >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz
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December 08, 2018, 11:08:57 PM
 #792


I thought the religious regimes were/are the most tyrannical.  Maybe you got this backward.

Secularism is what brought women's rights, gay rights, equality of races and genders etc.  Which thought is more flexible, religious or secular?

Which system is more coercive?  Secular or religious one?  Think about it before you post again.

Hint: Secular does not necessarily mean communist, socialist or some other dictatorial system.  

Freedom comes from moral self-control. There is no other way to achieve it.

The West especially Europe has forgotten this which is why freedom is now in decline throughout the western world. If you look at our current secular society and don't see the stagnation increasing corruption and intellectual incoherence and yes declining freedom then you have closed your eyes to reality.

This video from Prager University highlightes this point well.

Freedom and Moral Self-Control

There are all sorts of historical and tyrannical regimes founded in religion. From ancient Egypt which invested tyrannical powers in their god king Pharoh to modern day North Korea which proclaims divine proprieties in its leader Kim Jong-Un.

What is common to all of these tyrannical regimes is their incompatibility with the Judo-Christian tradition. This is why every tyranny eventually turns its arrows or guns on Christians and Jews. They represent an existential threat to tyranny.

Christians in case you didn't know are the most persecuted group in the world currently. Last year approximately 100,000 Christians were killed because of their beliefs.

I hope you are not suggesting we follow the Judo-Christian tradition.  You know the one that keeps women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen or the one that kills gays or atheists in the city squares.

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December 08, 2018, 11:50:15 PM
Last edit: December 09, 2018, 01:56:17 AM by CoinCube
 #793


I hope you are not suggesting we follow the Judo-Christian tradition.  You know the one that keeps women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen or the one that kills gays or atheists in the city squares.

No I advise following the Judeo-Christian tradition.

This is the tradition that holds the following up as the ultimate rule, purpose and message of the Bible.

Christianity: Matthew 7:12
"So  everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

Judaism: Hillel the Elder
"What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow: this is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."

See: Superrationality and the Infinite

Now you can choose to reject that truth and get hung up over some esoteric detail of the brutal tribal realities of ages past. However, in doing so you reject the greatest force for freedom in history. You leave both yourself and your offspring vulnerable to future slavery in service to whatever technological or ideological tyranny comes along next.

That is your choice to make.

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December 09, 2018, 03:42:13 AM
 #794


I hope you are not suggesting we follow the Judo-Christian tradition.  You know the one that keeps women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen or the one that kills gays or atheists in the city squares.

No I advise following the Judeo-Christian tradition.

This is the tradition that holds the following up as the ultimate rule, purpose and message of the Bible.

Christianity: Matthew 7:12
"So  everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

Judaism: Hillel the Elder
"What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow: this is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."

See: Superrationality and the Infinite

Now you can choose to reject that truth and get hung up over some esoteric detail of the brutal tribal realities of ages past. However, in doing so you reject the greatest force for freedom in history. You leave both yourself and your offspring vulnerable to future slavery in service to whatever technological or ideological tyranny comes along next.

That is your choice to make.

Why should anyone care what the Bible says?  You do know that there are other more relevant books on morality, don't you?

BTW, what 'truth' are you talking about?  The only truth I know is based on objective facts.

Bible is an example of Bronze Age literary work.  Why should I even open this book?  It is filled with vile, immoral passages that anyone with an ounce of moral integrity should burn it at once.

This book is irrelevant in the 21st century.  If you are a history buff you can intellectually masturbate to it, but it is not my cup of tea.

PS. Just imagine what would happen to the Muslims or gays if hardcore evangelists, or the Westboro Baptist types would run the country.  Human rights would go out of the window in the name of Jesus, LOL.

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December 09, 2018, 04:03:15 AM
 #795


Why should anyone care what the Bible says?  You do know that there are other more relevant books on morality, don't you?

BTW, what 'truth' are you talking about?  The only truth I know is based on objective facts.

Bible is an example of Bronze Age literary work.  Why should I even open this book?  It is filled with vile, immoral passages that anyone with an ounce of moral integrity should burn it at once.

This book is irrelevant in the 21st century.  If you are a history buff you can intellectually masturbate to it, but it is not my cup of tea.

PS. Just imagine what would happen to the Muslims or gays if hardcore evangelists, or the Westboro Baptist types would run the country.  Human rights would go out of the window in the name of Jesus, LOL.

You talk so silly. When were the actual starts to the written Bible made? About 3,500 years ago.

When did people first appear on the earth? The Bible says less than 7,000 years ago, and standard evolution says long before that, though evolutionists aren't sure when.

The Bible fits people better than any book today. Why? Because it was written in times before people corrupted themselves as badly as they have today. So, it hasn't been corrupted as much as modern books. I mean, all you need to do is look at what the United States is doing to Yemen, and what the tribes in Africa are doing to each other. Modern doesn't make anything more pure.

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CoinCube
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December 09, 2018, 08:46:37 AM
Last edit: December 09, 2018, 09:15:47 AM by CoinCube
 #796


BTW, what 'truth' are you talking about?  The only truth I know is based on objective facts.

Actually the only truth you know is materialism. The objective facts are in dispute.

Materialists such as yourself are often herded into a form of rationalized self-annihilation that is deeply deeply tied to the corruption of modernity BADecker highlighted in his most recent post.

Here is an article that discusses this downward spiral. The portion on willful self-annihilation is particularly relevant.

Old Left-New Left... Modernity-Postmodernity - surface changes masking a constant deep motivation against God
http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2018/12/old-left-new-left-modernity.html?m=1

What is the 'truth' I am talking about?

For the purposes of this immediate and specific conversation it is the following.

Materialism is false.

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December 09, 2018, 09:59:21 AM
 #797


BTW, what 'truth' are you talking about?  The only truth I know is based on objective facts.

Actually the only truth you know is materialism. The objective facts are in dispute.

Materialists such as yourself are often herded into a form of rationalized self-annihilation that is deeply deeply tied to the corruption of modernity BADecker highlighted in his most recent post.

Here is an article that discusses this downward spiral. The portion on willful self-annihilation is particularly relevant.

Old Left-New Left... Modernity-Postmodernity - surface changes masking a constant deep motivation against God
http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2018/12/old-left-new-left-modernity.html?m=1

What is the 'truth' I am talking about?

For the purposes of this immediate and specific conversation it is the following.

Materialism is false.

Philosophy can be great but far from a good ''science'' to find the ''truth''. That's your problem, you base most of your beliefs on philosophical arguments.

\\\\\...COIN.....
...CURB...
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........NEWS, UPDATES, & ICO'S........
...FROM ALL THE PROJECTS YOU LOVE...
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CacoeCrypto
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December 09, 2018, 12:48:29 PM
 #798

Seeing how easy it has been for us to create virtual worlds, give the characters in these worlds jobs and tasks... what happens when those characters become aware of us, without the need for us to program it in there? We're creating more and more virtual simulations for entertainment and work, while physical things become more electronic based. All of our entertainment has been made to not be able to held in our hands. My music used to be tapes, then CD's, now I just own the device that plays the virtual music i buy online. Comic books have become full length movies and making 1 billion dollars each time a new one comes out. Panini is making virtual football cards that are selling for ridiculous amounts online. Reminds me of a mix between Inception and Truman Show. Different levels of simulations created by the one before it.

Telegram: @CacoeCrypto. Also on Channel CacoeCrypto
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December 09, 2018, 12:54:51 PM
Last edit: January 26, 2019, 06:12:56 PM by ATMD
 #799

Seeing how easy it has been for us to create virtual worlds, give the characters in these worlds jobs and tasks... what happens when those characters become aware of us, without the need for us to program it in there? We're creating more and more virtual simulations for entertainment and work, while physical things become more electronic based. All of our entertainment has been made to not be able to held in our hands. My music used to be tapes, then CD's, now I just own the device that plays the virtual music i buy online. Comic books have become full length movies and making 1 billion dollars each time a new one comes out. Panini is making virtual football cards that are selling for ridiculous amounts online. Reminds me of a mix between Inception and Truman Show. Different levels of simulations created by the one before it.

So God exists.

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December 09, 2018, 01:15:12 PM
 #800

Seeing how easy it has been for us to create virtual worlds, give the characters in these worlds jobs and tasks... what happens when those characters become aware of us, without the need for us to program it in there? We're creating more and more virtual simulations for entertainment and work, while physical things become more electronic based. All of our entertainment has been made to not be able to held in our hands. My music used to be tapes, then CD's, now I just own the device that plays the virtual music i buy online. Comic books have become full length movies and making 1 billion dollars each time a new one comes out. Panini is making virtual football cards that are selling for ridiculous amounts online. Reminds me of a mix between Inception and Truman Show. Different levels of simulations created by the one before it.

Something without consciousness cannot become aware of us.

\\\\\...COIN.....
...CURB...
         ▄▄▄████████████▄▄▄
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........NEWS, UPDATES, & ICO'S........
...FROM ALL THE PROJECTS YOU LOVE...
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