Why do you believe God exists?

[af_newbie]

True, but sometimes you need to ban ideologies (communism, socialism, Nazism, fascism, religion) that cause multi-generational societal harm.

Slavery is a bad idea.  So is the Bible.

It does not matter how many times you raped, if you only raped once, you are a rapist.

I am sure the majority of Christians and people from several religious doctrines are against slavery and rape.

Yes, most christians are sensible people but they have to ignore big chunks of story in the bible. The bible talks about slavery and rape, even allows it, the bible even allows murder. They have to come up with excuses because they know the bible is wrong so they say things like: ''Oh but that's the old testament'' ''it doesn't count''

You almost sound like you haven't heard about what American soldiers do around the world all the time. Or about all the court cases that promote all kinds of things. Or about all the laws in the States; like the ones in all the States that talk about marrying age for boys and girls: https://family.findlaw.com/marriage/state-by-state-marriage-age-of-consent-laws.html. And this stuff is going on today, in the USA. Not way back whenever, when the circumstances and customs of society were way different.

You talk so silly. The general structure of the O.T. was for the best benefit of the people of that day. But they show what is best at the same time. You simply take it all out of context so that you don't have to understand.

You can't receive the best benefit when you leave God out of the equation, or out of your life.

''You talk so silly. The general structure of the O.T. was for the best benefit of the people of that day'' Tell that to the slaves and people murdered for picking up sticks on the sabbath lol. I'm sure they would disagree with you.

Actually, they wouldn't. Why? Because the O.T. teaching made life easier on them.

Someone that is dead cannot have a better life, badecker, study some biology. People murdered definitely did not have an easier life, they had an easier death in any case.

That's why the Bible says, "Thou shalt not kill." The word "kill" really means "murder" in modern English. "Kill" is from the old English. So, why are you attempting to so act ignorant?

If there was no Bible, you would not have to explain it and defend it.

BTW, shouldn't that be your God's job?  You know, to set up a website so that we can view his up-to-date instructions in modern languages.

Sounds like someone in the Heavens' marketing department is sleeping behind the wheel. LOL.

Or more likely explanation is that the Bronze Age schmucks described their ignorant life and some other schmucks in the 21st century read too much into it ROFL.

[1713301174]

1713301174

[1713301174]

1713301174

[1713301174]

1713301174

[CoinCube]

Why are to misdirecting the conversation?  Who said anything about materialism?  I said objective facts.  It is not my problem that our reality is material.

I am simply highlighting your self-imposed miosis. You base your determination of objective facts on your materialism yet refuse to consider challenges to that materialist foundation.

Your concerns about religious tyranny in a theocratic state are of course valid. Humans corrupt every institution we partake in and vesting ultimate state power in any centralized church run by man can lead to no outcome other then eventual corruption of said church and tyranny. The founders of the US understood this well which is why they both guaranteed religious freedom and prohibited an official state religion in the first amendment of the constitution.

Our morality should come from the humanity that is within us.  We should burn ALL scriptures and move on as critical thinking human beings.

Religion is evil at its core.

You appear to have bought into the progressive delusion that humans are basically good and if we all just embrace our inner humanity we can all sing songs together in harmony.

The reality is that humans are not inherently good. We are innately infused with great evil. That ultimately is part of the message of the Old Testament you so misunderstand. It tells us that all humans even the best of us are inherently flawed and capable of great evil. It also lays out a framework via which said evils can be mitigated and perhaps someday rectified.

You are already on record as in favor of forcibly removing children from the homes of religious parents and placing them in re-education camps. Now you want book burnings too? You will make a good foot soldier when the next tyranny rises its head.

The year is 2018.  Earth is not flat, it is billions of years old, nobody created the universe or life on Earth that we know of, life evolved and continues to evolve.  Anyone who denies these facts is delusional or simply ignorant.

You sound like one of the scientists who loudly proclaimed space was full of Luminiferous Aether or the confident proponent of Phrenology standing tall with his tape measure.

The reality is that your firm foundation of facts are not nearly as certain as you proclaim.

1. Earth is not flat.

The entire universe including the Earth might be flat.
Study reveals substantial evidence of holographic universe
https://m.phys.org/news/2017-01-reveals-substantial-evidence-holographic-universe.html

2. Earth is billions of years old.

Time itself may be an illusion and the age of the earth depends on your frame of reference.
TIME is an ILLUSION
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VYZQxMowBsw

3. Nobody created the universe or life on Earth.

This is your religion and your conclusion has not been proven by science nor does it have anything to do with science.

[Wananavu99]

I'm a Scientist, have been for most of my life. I have NEVER believed in a supreme being, despite going to Catholic schools my entire life.

I'd like to know.... What is it that compels you to believe in God? How can you argue for his existence? Please bare the following in mind when you answer;

1. There are literally thousands of religions, each of which has members that believe just as firmly as you do, they say they feel a personal connection with God, they have their own religious books and doctrines etc, if you were born in Saudi Arabia, you would be a muslim, in Ireland you would be a protestant, seems like the place you are born denotes your religion, rather than divine intervention. Obviously you can't all be right, so how do you know YOU are.

2. Most religions state that God is all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving, all-present and eternal. If this is the case, why are people punished for sins by an all loving God, who predestined them to commit their sins by knowing the future? Why is there bone cancer in Children, and insects that burrow into the eyes of infants making them blind, could an all loving God not have imagined a reality without this? And why is there such overwhelming evidence AGAINST the existence of a creator?

3. Since the scientific era God has slowly receded into the shadows, God used to be held responsible for most things, e.g. people offered sacrifices for good health, prayed for rain, thought that God pulled the sun across the sky, created plagues etc. Now we know he does none of these, and God has been reduced to a "God of the gaps" whereby he is still attributed to things we cannot yet explain with science, doesn't seem very powerful anymore.

I'll try to respond to the major points in this thread attempting to dismantle them.

I never used to believe there was a God, during my second year of pre-med I got to a very low point in my life where I was drinking so much, had so many relationships that didn't last a couple of days, I was so depressed and ending it sounded like the only logical thing to do.  Yet, in this the most dire moment of my life my whole body started to feel enveloped by unfathomable love, unadulterated love beyond anything I can explain.  I was wrapped up in it and I had an otter body experience where I heard a voice tell me that I'm loved more than anything in the world.  God knows all, even down to the tiniest particle and all is God.  I felt no judgement or condemnation for my actions, this feeling covered or enveloped me till I was so happy that I couldn't speak and tears ran down my eyes.  Next thing I knew the sun started to rise and it was morning.  That day I went home and sank to my knees praying for help.  The next several months wasn't easy, but I cleaned up, took a year off school and just wanted to help people.  I cannot explain what happened to me, it was surreal, I was beyond words.  I was an Atheist and now I'm a believer, not of any religious thought or doctrine but of Love.  I learned that God is love and that's it. 

[CoinCube]

Materialism is false.

Philosophy can be great but far from a good ''science'' to find the ''truth''. That's your problem, you base most of your beliefs on philosophical arguments.

The falseness of materialism is not just a philosophical argument it is the most logical interpretation of multiple and repeated scientific experiments.

Modern science provides powerful evidence against the materialist worldview. This summary of recent scientific studies highlights this and is worth watching if you were not aware of this.

Quantum Physics Debunks Materialism
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4C5pq7W5yRM

Materialist cling to false notions of an independent physical reality. They do this because once you realizes that materialism is false a theistic view of world logically follows.

[af_newbie]

Why are to misdirecting the conversation?  Who said anything about materialism?  I said objective facts.  It is not my problem that our reality is material.

I am simply highlighting your self-imposed miosis. You base your determination of objective facts on your materialism yet refuse to consider challenges to that materialist foundation.

Your concerns about religious tyranny in a theocratic state are of course valid. Humans corrupt every institution we partake in and vesting ultimate state power in any centralized church run by man can lead to no outcome other then eventual corruption of said church and tyranny. The founders of the US understood this well which is why they both guaranteed religious freedom and prohibited an official state religion in the first amendment of the constitution.

Our morality should come from the humanity that is within us.  We should burn ALL scriptures and move on as critical thinking human beings.

Religion is evil at its core.

You appear to have bought into the progressive delusion that humans are basically good and if we all just embrace our inner humanity we can all sing songs together in harmony.

The reality is that humans are not inherently good. We are innately infused with great evil. That ultimately is part of the message of the Old Testament you so misunderstand. It tells us that all humans even the best of us are inherently flawed and capable of great evil. It also lays out a framework via which said evils can be mitigated and perhaps someday rectified.

You are already on record as in favor of forcibly removing children from the homes of religious parents and placing them in re-education camps. Now you want book burnings too? You will make a good foot soldier when the next tyranny rises its head.

The year is 2018.  Earth is not flat, it is billions of years old, nobody created the universe or life on Earth that we know of, life evolved and continues to evolve.  Anyone who denies these facts is delusional or simply ignorant.

You sound like one of the scientists who loudly proclaimed space was full of Luminiferous Aether or the confident proponent of Phrenology standing tall with his tape measure.

The reality is that your firm foundation of facts are not nearly as certain as you proclaim.

1. Earth is not flat.

The entire universe including the Earth might be flat.
Study reveals substantial evidence of holographic universe
https://m.phys.org/news/2017-01-reveals-substantial-evidence-holographic-universe.html

2. Earth is billions of years old.

Time itself may be an illusion and the age of the earth depends on your frame of reference.
TIME is an ILLUSION
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VYZQxMowBsw

3. Nobody created the universe or life on Earth.

This is your religion and your conclusion has not been proven by science nor does it have anything to do with science.

The difference between you and I is the way we view reality.

To me, the reality is based on objective observations confirmed by carbon and silicon-based observers.  In my world, fictional characters do not exist or exhibit any influence or power.  The unknown remains unknown and is not part of my reality.  I don't lose sleep over the unknowns.

In your world, the reality consists of what is observable and the unknown which you make it known and part of your physical reality.  In your world, fictional characters are alive and well, the supermen exhibit their might, influence every action and thought you make.  Pregnant virgins remain virgins, the dead can become alive again, winged horses exist and can fly to space, and people are alive after they die.    In your world there are no unknowns, everything has an answer, the whole world is coherent and understood by you.

Your worldview is the basis for your delusion.  You need this delusion to function in this world as it provides a psychological comfort for you.  You cannot bare an idea that something is not known and you invent answers to feed your insecurities.

You call me a materialist, I would say I am an objective observationalist.  

As for humans being bad, well, most of us are.  We use our moral standard established by the societies we live in.  Good people innately know the moral rules and help establish the rules for the rest of their societies to follow.  Some of us are born without that moral compass and need guidance from our society or community.  Some of us break those rules anyway and become outlaws. Adopting rules established for the Bronze Age societies is as bad as having no moral rules.  The leaders who wrote those moral rules would not last a day in our society.  They would be arrested and thrown in jail for life.

Our morals evolve over time, what was considered moral few centuries ago is not moral any more.

[SCheek]

Put simply it gives life purpose. Without purpose there is no punishment for immoral action and no reward for moral action.

[af_newbie]

Materialism is false.

Philosophy can be great but far from a good ''science'' to find the ''truth''. That's your problem, you base most of your beliefs on philosophical arguments.

The falseness of materialism is not just a philosophical argument it is the most logical interpretation of multiple and repeated scientific experiments.

Modern science provides powerful evidence against the materialist worldview. This summary of recent scientific studies highlights this and is worth watching if you were not aware of this.

Quantum Physics Debunks Materialism
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4C5pq7W5yRM

Materialist cling to false notions of an independent physical reality. They do this because once you realizes that materialism is false a theistic view of world logically follows.

You should use objective observations to make your reality, not some philosophical ramblings.

As for materialism, you have heard of E=mc2, haven't you?  So stop clinging to your 19th-century definition of materialism. The rest of the world moved on, it is time you do that as well.

[BADecker]

Materialism is false.

Philosophy can be great but far from a good ''science'' to find the ''truth''. That's your problem, you base most of your beliefs on philosophical arguments.

The falseness of materialism is not just a philosophical argument it is the most logical interpretation of multiple and repeated scientific experiments.

Modern science provides powerful evidence against the materialist worldview. This summary of recent scientific studies highlights this and is worth watching if you were not aware of this.

Quantum Physics Debunks Materialism
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4C5pq7W5yRM

Materialist cling to false notions of an independent physical reality. They do this because once you realizes that materialism is false a theistic view of world logically follows.

You should use objective observations to make your reality, not some philosophical ramblings.

As for materialism, you have heard of E=mc2, haven't you?  So stop clinging to your 19th-century definition of materialism. The rest of the world moved on, it is time you do that as well.

Actually, the Bible is the most printed, sold, and distributed book out there. Why have you moved on, away from the truth?

[ATMD]

Yet, in this the most dire moment of my life my whole body started to feel enveloped by unfathomable love, unadulterated love beyond anything I can explain.  I was wrapped up in it and I had an otter body experience where I heard a voice tell me that I'm loved more than anything in the world.  God knows all, even down to the tiniest particle and all is God.  I felt no judgement or condemnation for my actions, this feeling covered or enveloped me till I was so happy that I couldn't speak and tears ran down my eyes. 

This is an amazing experience! Wananavu99, thank you for sharing

[af_newbie]

Materialism is false.

Philosophy can be great but far from a good ''science'' to find the ''truth''. That's your problem, you base most of your beliefs on philosophical arguments.

The falseness of materialism is not just a philosophical argument it is the most logical interpretation of multiple and repeated scientific experiments.

Modern science provides powerful evidence against the materialist worldview. This summary of recent scientific studies highlights this and is worth watching if you were not aware of this.

Quantum Physics Debunks Materialism
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4C5pq7W5yRM

Materialist cling to false notions of an independent physical reality. They do this because once you realizes that materialism is false a theistic view of world logically follows.

You should use objective observations to make your reality, not some philosophical ramblings.

As for materialism, you have heard of E=mc2, haven't you?  So stop clinging to your 19th-century definition of materialism. The rest of the world moved on, it is time you do that as well.

Actually, the Bible is the most printed, sold, and distributed book out there. Why have you moved on, away from the truth?

You should work on your epistemology.  Being popular does not make it true.

You have no tools to discover what is true or false. You are like a blind and deaf newborn.  That is your problem.

Unfortunately for you, you don't even know why you are deluded.

[CoinCube]

Quantum Physics Debunks Materialism
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4C5pq7W5yRM

You should use objective observations to make your reality, not some philosophical ramblings.

Empirical results from quantum mechanics are objective observations. The fact that you choose to dismiss the logical implications of the those observations highlights your bias.

Your worldview is the basis for your delusion.  You need this delusion to function in this world as it provides a psychological comfort for you.  You cannot bare an idea that something is not known and you invent answers to feed your insecurities.

Thanks for the armchair psychoanalysis. I functioned very well as a atheist in society for decades most of my adult life in fact. I abandoned that position once it became apparent that it was logically untenable.

As for humans being bad, well, most of us are.  We use our moral standard established by the societies we live in. Good people innately know the moral rules and help establish the rules.

Ahh and who gets to decide who the innately good people are?

Who gets to decide who to sent to those re-education camps you want and what books need burning. You because of your innate goodness?

[BADecker]

Materialism is false.

Philosophy can be great but far from a good ''science'' to find the ''truth''. That's your problem, you base most of your beliefs on philosophical arguments.

The falseness of materialism is not just a philosophical argument it is the most logical interpretation of multiple and repeated scientific experiments.

Modern science provides powerful evidence against the materialist worldview. This summary of recent scientific studies highlights this and is worth watching if you were not aware of this.

Quantum Physics Debunks Materialism
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4C5pq7W5yRM

Materialist cling to false notions of an independent physical reality. They do this because once you realizes that materialism is false a theistic view of world logically follows.

You should use objective observations to make your reality, not some philosophical ramblings.

As for materialism, you have heard of E=mc2, haven't you?  So stop clinging to your 19th-century definition of materialism. The rest of the world moved on, it is time you do that as well.

Actually, the Bible is the most printed, sold, and distributed book out there. Why have you moved on, away from the truth?

You should work on your epistemology.  Being popular does not make it true.

You have no tools to discover what is true or false. You are like a blind and deaf newborn.  That is your problem.

Unfortunately for you, you don't even know why you are deluded.

The fact that people read and distribute books isn't the important part. The important part is twofold:
1. The rate;
2. The results with people.

God is expanding the bible at a fabulous rate beyond the natural rate. People are helping with this expansion by being touched by god to be part of it.

Science books in the dust.

[Astargath]

Materialism is false.

Philosophy can be great but far from a good ''science'' to find the ''truth''. That's your problem, you base most of your beliefs on philosophical arguments.

The falseness of materialism is not just a philosophical argument it is the most logical interpretation of multiple and repeated scientific experiments.

Modern science provides powerful evidence against the materialist worldview. This summary of recent scientific studies highlights this and is worth watching if you were not aware of this.

Quantum Physics Debunks Materialism
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4C5pq7W5yRM

Materialist cling to false notions of an independent physical reality. They do this because once you realizes that materialism is false a theistic view of world logically follows.

You should use objective observations to make your reality, not some philosophical ramblings.

As for materialism, you have heard of E=mc2, haven't you?  So stop clinging to your 19th-century definition of materialism. The rest of the world moved on, it is time you do that as well.

Actually, the Bible is the most printed, sold, and distributed book out there. Why have you moved on, away from the truth?

You should work on your epistemology.  Being popular does not make it true.

You have no tools to discover what is true or false. You are like a blind and deaf newborn.  That is your problem.

Unfortunately for you, you don't even know why you are deluded.

The fact that people read and distribute books isn't the important part. The important part is twofold:
1. The rate;
2. The results with people.

God is expanding the bible at a fabulous rate beyond the natural rate. People are helping with this expansion by being touched by god to be part of it.

Science books in the dust.

That still doesn't mean anything lmao. That's not a way to discover what's real and what's not. Just because the harry potter book was sold more than ''insert other book'' doesn't mean harry potter is real.

[af_newbie]

Quantum Physics Debunks Materialism
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4C5pq7W5yRM

You should use objective observations to make your reality, not some philosophical ramblings.

Empirical results from quantum mechanics are objective observations. The fact that you choose to dismiss the logical implications of the those observations highlights your bias.

...

You really don't know me.  Who says I dismiss the results of quantum mechanics?

You are full of yourself, IMHO.

You jump to whatever supernatural conclusions you need to validate your delusion.

As for humans being bad, well, most of us are.  We use our moral standard established by the societies we live in. Good people innately know the moral rules and help establish the rules.

Ahh and who gets to decide who the innately good people are?

Who gets to decide who to sent to those re-education camps you want and what books need burning. You because of your innate goodness?

You are a good person if you follow the moral code that your society accepts.  

You don't need a Bronze Age boogeyman.

[CoinCube]

You are a good person if you follow the moral code that your society accepts.  

You don't need a Bronze Age boogeyman.

Let's see so according to your logic:

The Soviet Gestapo who forceably resettled presents to collective farms in 1932 leading to the starvation of 8 million were swell folks because they were following the Soviet code.

The Nazi's guards who starved and gassed millions were great guys too because Hitler was elected and widely admired and supported by the German People.

According to you these folks were paragons of virtue following the moral code their societies accepted at the time.

Similarly if you can get a majority to support your desired re-education camps and book burnings that will be great too. I think I understand you better now.


Here is a short video that describes your fundamental problem. You have rejected God, and without God one can no longer properly define good and evil.
Can You Be Good Without God
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxiAikEk2vU

[af_newbie]

You are a good person if you follow the moral code that your society accepts.  

You don't need a Bronze Age boogeyman.

Let's see so according to your logic:

The Soviet Gestapo who forceably resettled presents to collective farms in 1932 leading to the starvation of 8 million were swell folks because they were following the Soviet code.

The Nazi's guards who starved and gassed millions were great guys too because Hitler was elected and widely admired and supported by the German People.

According to you these folks were paragons of virtue following the moral code their societies accepted at the time.

Similarly if you can get a majority to support your desired re-education camps and book burnings that will be great too. I think I understand you better now.


Here is a short video that describes your fundamental problem. You have rejected God, and without God one can no longer properly define good and evil.
Can You Be Good Without God
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxiAikEk2vU

Dictatorial regimes don't follow moral codes.  Are you new here on Earth?  Your Bible did not save Christians or Jews who were killed in Auschwitz, nor it prevented Christians from killing other Christians or Jews.

Are you sure you thought your examples through?

I am all for progress, for what is best for all people and society as a whole.  That includes gays, lesbians, women, unlike your Bronze Age God.

You think the Bible will save you from a dictatorship?  You are confusing your delusional religious beliefs with political systems.

You can have a secular, democratic system with check and balances to prevent the sort of brutal regimes you are thinking about.

Trust me, you don't want to go down the route of a moral system driving a political system based on a Bronze Age scripture. 
You'll be killing gays and adulterers sooner rather than later.

Judeo-Christian ideology is no different than other inhumane ideologies.  Nazism and Communism included.
Any political system lead by people who believe in supernatural magic is a recipe for disaster.  Delusional people should not be near the nuclear codes.

I did not reject God.  There is nothing to reject.  Why can't you get this through your head is beyond me?

[CoinCube]

Dictatorial regimes don't follow moral codes.  Are you new here on Earth?  Your Bible did not save Christians or Jews who were killed in Auschwitz, nor it prevented Christians from killing other Christians or Jews.

Every society follows some kind of moral code.

Sometimes that code can be as simple as the strongest rule and the weak are slaves.  Usually it's more complex.

Democratic rule does not prevent tyranny it is not exempt from injustice and immorally. Review the history of Athens if you want to understand this better.

Tyranny of the majority was one of the greatest concerns of the US founding fathers. It the reasons they took such great effort to limit the power of direct democracy. Everything from the selection of Senators by state representatives, the selection of the president via the Electoral College, and the limits of voting to land owners were all attempts to lower the risk of a tyrannical mob rule.

Your stated standard is "you are automatically a good person if you are following the moral code that your society accepts." This is a very problematic code that highlights the profound detachment from reality your philosophy and atheism leads into.

I noticed you did not really refute my examples above. Via your standard any horror if accepted by a society becomes "good" and the perpetrators of said horror are "good people". With this standard you are lost in a morass of relativism a natural consequence of rejecting the divine.

You think the Bible will save you from a dictatorship?  You are confusing your delusional religious beliefs with political systems.
...
Judeo-Christian ideology is no different than other inhumane ideologies.  Nazism and Communism included.

You lack an understanding of the pivotal role of the Judeo-Christian tradition in facilitating coordination and driving progress over time.

I discussed this topic in some depth here:
Religion and Progress

I did not reject God.  There is nothing to reject.  Why can't you get this through your head is beyond me?

You were raised religious and brought up to accept and worship God. You and later rejected both that tradition and God. We have real issues of dispute we should not waste our time on word games.

I came from a highly religious family, went through Catholic school system, both primary and secondary, I was an altar boy
...
What I saw, was corruption, abuse on pretty much every level imaginable.

[Astargath]

Dictatorial regimes don't follow moral codes.  Are you new here on Earth?  Your Bible did not save Christians or Jews who were killed in Auschwitz, nor it prevented Christians from killing other Christians or Jews.

Every society follows some kind of moral code.

Sometimes that code can be as simple as the strongest rule and the weak are slaves.  Usually it's more complex.

Democratic rule does not prevent tyranny it is not exempt from injustice and immorally. Review the history of Athens if you want to understand this better.

Tyranny of the majority was one of the greatest concerns of the US founding fathers. It the reasons they took such great effort to limit the power of direct democracy. Everything from the selection of Senators by state representatives, the selection of the president via the Electoral College, and the limits of voting to land owners were all attempts to lower the risk of a tyrannical mob rule.

Your stated standard is "you are automatically a good person if you are following the moral code that your society accepts." This is a very problematic code that highlights the profound detachment from reality your philosophy and atheism leads into.

I noticed you did not really refute my examples above. Via your standard any horror if accepted by a society becomes "good" and the perpetrators of said horror are "good people". With this standard you are lost in a morass of relativism a natural consequence of rejecting the divine.

You think the Bible will save you from a dictatorship?  You are confusing your delusional religious beliefs with political systems.
...
Judeo-Christian ideology is no different than other inhumane ideologies.  Nazism and Communism included.

You lack an understanding of the pivotal role of the Judeo-Christian tradition in facilitating coordination and driving progress over time.

I discussed this topic in some depth here:
Religion and Progress

I did not reject God.  There is nothing to reject.  Why can't you get this through your head is beyond me?

You were raised religious and brought up to accept and worship God. You and later rejected both that tradition and God. We have real issues of dispute we should not waste our time on word games.

I came from a highly religious family, went through Catholic school system, both primary and secondary, I was an altar boy
...
What I saw, was corruption, abuse on pretty much every level imaginable.

God rejected him, in any case. If god wanted us to know about his existence, he would know exactly what to do to show us. And no, this wouldn't take away my free will, he wouldn't need to force me, just show me enough proof. Logically god makes no sense in any way you can think about it.

[af_newbie]

Dictatorial regimes don't follow moral codes.  Are you new here on Earth?  Your Bible did not save Christians or Jews who were killed in Auschwitz, nor it prevented Christians from killing other Christians or Jews.

Every society follows some kind of moral code.

Sometimes that code can be as simple as the strongest rule and the weak are slaves.  Usually it's more complex.

Democratic rule does not prevent tyranny it is not exempt from injustice and immorally. Review the history of Athens if you want to understand this better.

Tyranny of the majority was one of the greatest concerns of the US founding fathers. It the reasons they took such great effort to limit the power of direct democracy. Everything from the selection of Senators by state representatives, the selection of the president via the Electoral College, and the limits of voting to land owners were all attempts to lower the risk of a tyrannical mob rule.

Your stated standard is "you are automatically a good person if you are following the moral code that your society accepts." This is a very problematic code that highlights the profound detachment from reality your philosophy and atheism leads into.

I noticed you did not really refute my examples above. Via your standard any horror if accepted by a society becomes "good" and the perpetrators of said horror are "good people". With this standard you are lost in a morass of relativism a natural consequence of rejecting the divine.

You think the Bible will save you from a dictatorship?  You are confusing your delusional religious beliefs with political systems.
...
Judeo-Christian ideology is no different than other inhumane ideologies.  Nazism and Communism included.

You lack an understanding of the pivotal role of the Judeo-Christian tradition in facilitating coordination and driving progress over time.

I discussed this topic in some depth here:
Religion and Progress

I did not reject God.  There is nothing to reject.  Why can't you get this through your head is beyond me?

You were raised religious and brought up to accept and worship God. You and later rejected both that tradition and God. We have real issues of dispute we should not waste our time on word games.

I came from a highly religious family, went through Catholic school system, both primary and secondary, I was an altar boy
...
What I saw, was corruption, abuse on pretty much every level imaginable.

I was born into a Catholic family.  That was not my choice.  I did not choose God to later reject him.

I ignored stories about God the same way other kids ignored stories about Santa Claus.  

Then my critical thinking skills did the rest when I turned about 12.  I started asking questions for which I got a wholesome beating from a holy nun.  Nasty, old, big nosed bitch she was.  It became a routine, I asked a question, class laughed, I got a beating, back to drawing Jesus feeding the hungry and raising some schmucks from dead.

I rejected God the same you reject Santa Claus.  The same reason:  fictional character.

BTW, why did you reject Santa Claus?  Please do tell.  

[BADecker]

I was born into a Catholic family.  That was not my choice.  I did not choose God to later reject him.

I ignored stories about God the same way other kids ignored stories about Santa Claus.  

Then my critical thinking skills did the rest when I turned about 12.  I started asking questions for which I got a wholesome beating from a holy nun.  Nasty, old, big nosed bitch she was.  It became a routine, I asked a question, class laughed, I got a beating, back to drawing Jesus feeding the hungry and raising some schmucks from dead.

I rejected God the same you reject Santa Claus.  The same reason:  fictional character.

BTW, why did you reject Santa Claus?  Please do tell.  

Unfortunately, religious organizations don't know the answers in a logical way. Their faith is logical (because we all live by faith; nobody can see an instant into the future), but they don't use it to logically find out the answers. And they take it out on people who use logic.

The closer we get to micro machines, the more we find out that operations in the universe (and especially life) are super micro machines in the extreme. We use them as such. We are applying DNA to computers to make them "think" better. We are using DNA natural machines with man made machines: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/synthetic-biology-building-machines-from-dna/ and https://www.cell.com/chem/pdf/S2451-9294(16)30111-5.pdf and many more if you search for them.

The question we seem to be ignoring is, who or what made these natural machines and the machine of nature? Evolution and Big Bang are nice ideas, but they are sadly lacking in real life application. The thing we see in machines is, machine makers. So, who or what made the machines of nature and the universe?

Forget the word "God." Forget, also, the silly notion that stuff simply springs into being all by itself. We don't have any example of real spontaneity happening anywhere. Rather, look at science and see the machines, and then apply this kind of thinking to the idea of machine making. Who or what made the machines of the universe. Whoever or whatever made the machines of nature had super-great ability.

If you ignore the machine maker(s) of nature, or that there could be any such thing(s), you are turning away from science and what science is discovering and using... that nature is made up of machines, and is collectively a gigantic machine. In addition, you are turning away from the kind of logic that made you question the nuns.