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ratiobitcoin
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December 03, 2017, 09:51:22 AM
 #1

I just want to start a discussion on the current bitcoin value.

bitcoin has been existing for quite a long time now. a few months ago nearly no one (in germany for example) knew about bitcoin, it was a minority who did and who did big earning during the course increase since the very first beginnings. while bitcoin hit 2k in may / june of this year the media startet heavily to jump on that train, for example facebook was flooded by bitcoin news. most of them very euphoric. from friends and what i've hear all around a lot of people who don't know anything about cryptocurrency started to invest and they did decent earnings due to the further price increase of bitcoin.

but - will this lead to an bubble? all those people investing and knowing nothing about crypto? don't know how to pay? how to deal with forks - or what forks even are?

will this together with the high transaction costs - and therefore no usability of bitcoin as a daily payment currency lead to an heavy decrease in value?

and will the altcoins decrease as well as they are highly correlated to the bitcoin value? what is your opinion?
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December 03, 2017, 09:58:34 AM
 #2

I don't understand how it can be a bubble If a few millions only (maybe less then 10 millions) out of billions are using bitcoin, the potentials are simply huge here. As for not knowing about forks etc. then who's fault is that? I believe its the user fault for not doing his own research before getting involved. The transactions fees could easily be fixed If services start adopting SegWit but they are not so they're to blame and LN should come soon which should make them even lower.

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December 03, 2017, 10:07:31 AM
 #3

a few months ago nearly no one (in germany for example) knew about bitcoin, it was a minority who did and who did big earning during the course increase since the very first beginnings.
how did you measure this?
have you performed some kind of study, survey, or country-wide traffic analysis to figure out how many were interested in bitcoin and have been using it?

you know people aren't exactly so enthusiastic about sharing their financial matters with others. not to mention that smart money keeps accumulation on the down low.

Quote
but - will this lead to an bubble? all those people investing and knowing nothing about crypto? don't know how to pay? how to deal with forks - or what forks even are?
a bubble is when price is higher than the intrinsic value of something but you can not say this is now higher than that! so you can not say if it is a bubble.

and not knowing about details of bitcoin doesn't mean it is a bubble! there are always newbies in any market.

Quote
will this together with the high transaction costs - and therefore no usability of bitcoin as a daily payment currency lead to an heavy decrease in value?
it is not impossible to use bitcoin and it is not even that expensive to use it compared to most payment systems. and it is not going to last forever. if it did then it will start causing problems but not now.
again has nothing to do with a bubble.

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and will the altcoins decrease as well as they are highly correlated to the bitcoin value? what is your opinion?
altcoins have always been pump and dumps.














 

 

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Washball
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December 03, 2017, 10:12:14 AM
 #4

You could say Bitcoin is hyped, in order to increase the price. But this huge price rise is not only because it was hyped. Bitcoin has an enormous potential and the fact that it's a decentralized currency, which made it so popular, have made this high price possible. Also because the financial institutes saw a new product to make big profits with.

ratiobitcoin
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December 03, 2017, 10:15:11 AM
 #5

i didn't do any survey it was just the overall opinion i got, when i saw who was starting to talk about bitcoin and so on. also it has become a more and more popular topic at coffee-talk. this was more an assumption.
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December 03, 2017, 10:19:49 AM
 #6

I don't understand how it can be a bubble If a few millions only (maybe less then 10 millions) out of billions are using bitcoin, the potentials are simply huge here.

That's partly why some people assert that it's a bubble. One side is saying "hardly anyone is using it, so the upside is huge!" The other side is saying "hardly anyone is using it, so this is all hype/speculative bubble." Only time will truly tell which side is right, but the fact that BTC has recovered after every bubble/crash cycle suggests that it's here to stay for good.

The transactions fees could easily be fixed If services start adopting SegWit but they are not so they're to blame and LN should come soon which should make them even lower.

That's not entirely true. Segwit only cuts fees in half, so it won't fix anything on its own. The intermittent spam attacks the network is experiencing drive fees up more than that, and I suspect we have Bitmain to thank for it. LN, on the other hand, will actually be a game changer. But it could be years before we see widespread usage and a robust routing network.

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cryptonoob312
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December 03, 2017, 10:31:17 AM
 #7

Yes, it is. But it's good for us, so let's hype it too Smiley


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December 03, 2017, 10:33:34 AM
 #8

There are two main scenarios for a bubble - people buy something because they believe that it will increase in price, but when the price stops growing, they take it as a signal to take the profits and sell, which leads to a bear market and crash - this can be called as speculative bubble; the other scenario is when people invest in something new because they believe that it will grow big, but then it fails and the price goes to zero. The first type of bubble is not scary - it is possible to recover from it, it happened with Bitcoin a few times already, and you can either try to trade on it by selling before the crash and buying at the bottom (which is risky because you can be in a loss if you mistime it), or you can just ignore the crash and hodl. The second scenario is more dangerous, some negative events like bans, hacks and bugs can cripple Bitcoin's price for a long time, or maybe even completely kill it. But the probability of it actually happening is very low, because Bitcoin exists almost 9 years already and it becomes only stronger with each day. Bitcoin is not an investment in some future technology that is promised to be developed, it is already working and it can be very useful even at current state - it can't go to zero unless some disaster happens.

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December 03, 2017, 10:49:35 AM
 #9

Of course, Bitcoin's phenomenon is overhyped. But I believe that it is not groundless. Bitcoin became so popular precisely because people saw in it those advantages and opportunities that were previously impossible. At the moment the same advantages are possessed by other crypto-currencies. But Bitcoin does not cease to be in demand, because it is considered the most reliable project. As for me, Bitcoin has every right to be overhyped because it meets the requirements that are put forward to it.

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December 03, 2017, 10:58:15 AM
 #10

I think the above mentioned term 'speculative bubble' is correct in this case as masses of people are now rushing into crypto due to more coverage in the media. It is some sort of snowball-effect. Gotta say I'm kinda surprised a massive sell-off hasn't occured yet at this point. If that sell-off eventually does occur, the value of most altcoins will probably decrease as well.
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December 03, 2017, 11:01:47 AM
 #11

yeah, just like that but i dont think this bitcoin is a bubble and im sure not going to pop too. i mean every day new people come to cryptocurrency world and start learning about it so new comer new investor and the bitcoin price keep on growing

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December 03, 2017, 11:03:21 AM
 #12

Was the Furby ? Tickle Me Elmo ? Cabbage Patch Kid dolls ?
History speaks loud & clear.. dot com bubble bursting or not.
Housing market hollow investments or not.
Govt bail outs... or not.

interac etransfer costs $1 and takes less than a minute.
Bitcoin can take 30 hours and cost $4.

As an 8yr old currency it's failed miserably.

FUD first & ask questions later™
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December 03, 2017, 11:08:51 AM
 #13

I think the above mentioned term 'speculative bubble' is correct in this case as masses of people are now rushing into crypto due to more coverage in the media. It is some sort of snowball-effect. Gotta say I'm kinda surprised a massive sell-off hasn't occured yet at this point. If that sell-off eventually does occur, the value of most altcoins will probably decrease as well.
Alternative cryptocurrency created only to service the bitcoin. They will disappear first if the price of bitcoin will begin to decline.Nothing surprising in the fact that the mass selling of bitcoin hasn't happened no. Bitcoin only at the beginning of their recovery. Its popularity is only growing. What's the point to sell coins now?

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December 03, 2017, 11:15:53 AM
 #14

i didn't do any survey it was just the overall opinion i got, when i saw who was starting to talk about bitcoin and so on. also it has become a more and more popular topic at coffee-talk. this was more an assumption.

Well you should read more about Bitcoin and the general consensus and how well accepted Bitcoin in so many countries now, although there's still a lot of resistance I believe wide adoption is coming forth sooner than we all expected.
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December 03, 2017, 11:16:30 AM
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Unexpected /sudden but huge rise in price in a very short period of time have surprised many. Those who have made their minds that bitcoin is a fraud and its price rise is a bubble are still firm on their statements. But there are people defending bitcoins, bitcoin price is rising because bitcoin have that potential, people are buying more and more bitcoins, they have confidence in this cryptocurrency. These people are wise, when the price stops rising they book their profit and sell bitcoins. Bitcoin is not overhyped; it has crossed many obstacles like ban, regulations by many countries. It has also faced bad publicity in ransomeware attack case. Still it is growing its price.

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December 03, 2017, 11:53:25 AM
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i didn't do any survey it was just the overall opinion i got, when i saw who was starting to talk about bitcoin and so on. also it has become a more and more popular topic at coffee-talk. this was more an assumption.
With the price of bitcoin crossing over ten thousand and the growth it had in a single year cannot be turned down by any major investor and sure it will have an interest from every nuke and corners and people will try to learn and understand about bitcoin and boast about how fortunate the early investors were and how they reaped a big enough profit and so on,the sudden price rise to these levels is surprising in a short period but with the limited amount of coins and new investors coming in,it was bound to cross these valuations.














 

 

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December 03, 2017, 12:13:33 PM
 #17

I just want to start a discussion on the current bitcoin value.

bitcoin has been existing for quite a long time now. a few months ago nearly no one (in germany for example) knew about bitcoin, it was a minority who did and who did big earning during the course increase since the very first beginnings. while bitcoin hit 2k in may / june of this year the media startet heavily to jump on that train, for example facebook was flooded by bitcoin news. most of them very euphoric. from friends and what i've hear all around a lot of people who don't know anything about cryptocurrency started to invest and they did decent earnings due to the further price increase of bitcoin.

but - will this lead to an bubble? all those people investing and knowing nothing about crypto? don't know how to pay? how to deal with forks - or what forks even are?

will this together with the high transaction costs - and therefore no usability of bitcoin as a daily payment currency lead to an heavy decrease in value?

and will the altcoins decrease as well as they are highly correlated to the bitcoin value? what is your opinion?
Altcoins have been pumps and dumps for attacking market price.
Many people new to crypto without doing deep research about how Bitcoins price was increasing fast in this year, how forks creates new altcoins, and many thing. People only understand buying bitcoins and hold it then will get profit by.

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December 03, 2017, 12:33:26 PM
 #18

I don't think bitcoin is overhyped simply because majority of any country's population let alone from where I am from, do not have a clue as to what bitcoins are all about.  If it is overhyped then everyone would be goig crazy over it and putting their money in the system to trade without a moment's hesitation.  I agree how people have been saying that bitcoin isn't overhyped and that it's just simply gaining more value now because of its potential to be worth so much more intrinsically and to all bitcoin users.  Overhyped, after all, is being popular and then only finding out that it isn't worth much but in this case, it is the exact opposite.

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December 03, 2017, 12:48:58 PM
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I just want to start a discussion on the current bitcoin value.

bitcoin has been existing for quite a long time now. a few months ago nearly no one (in germany for example) knew about bitcoin, it was a minority who did and who did big earning during the course increase since the very first beginnings. while bitcoin hit 2k in may / june of this year the media startet heavily to jump on that train, for example facebook was flooded by bitcoin news. most of them very euphoric. from friends and what i've hear all around a lot of people who don't know anything about cryptocurrency started to invest and they did decent earnings due to the further price increase of bitcoin.

but - will this lead to an bubble? all those people investing and knowing nothing about crypto? don't know how to pay? how to deal with forks - or what forks even are?

will this together with the high transaction costs - and therefore no usability of bitcoin as a daily payment currency lead to an heavy decrease in value?

and will the altcoins decrease as well as they are highly correlated to the bitcoin value? what is your opinion?

I think you're reading too much into it. While people who have no idea what Bitcoin really is truly are a greater dump risk, they also usually have very few amounts to begin with. People who do invest significant amounts make sure what they're getting into -- that's the difference. You also have to keep in mind that dips encourage buys.

As for the daily payment currency part, I don't think so. Majority of people aren't interested in Bitcoin as a currency; they're only in for the investment. Heck, it's being touted as digital gold. You don't pay for your daily purchases with gold. People know what they're getting into. Even then, the community is trying to address issues. We were able to implement Segwit, with Lightning Network up next. Bitcoin is very much a work in progress.

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December 03, 2017, 04:46:42 PM
 #20

I think the above mentioned term 'speculative bubble' is correct in this case as masses of people are now rushing into crypto due to more coverage in the media. It is some sort of snowball-effect. Gotta say I'm kinda surprised a massive sell-off hasn't occured yet at this point. If that sell-off eventually does occur, the value of most altcoins will probably decrease as well.
Alternative cryptocurrency created only to service the bitcoin. They will disappear first if the price of bitcoin will begin to decline.Nothing surprising in the fact that the mass selling of bitcoin hasn't happened no. Bitcoin only at the beginning of their recovery. Its popularity is only growing. What's the point to sell coins now?

Are you talking about a scenario in which BTC goes into a death spiral and eventually flatlines due to crypto going bust? Yes, then all alts will drop like flies. This would not be the case however if a speculative bubble deflates. I find it personally surprising that a significant sell-off of BTC hasn't happened yet as the cryptoworld is still dominated by speculators and prices have risen over 1200% (BTC) this year alone.
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