Bitcoin Forum
December 15, 2017, 08:49:52 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Need a new bitcoin with Turing complete smart contract  (Read 418 times)
coinfirst
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 12


View Profile
December 03, 2017, 02:57:28 PM
 #1

As bitcoin is becoming more and more popular, it is useful to introduce the smart contract, just like Ethereum. The bitcoin asset can be processed with a complicated logic. This will make bitcoin more conveniently suitable for finance and business. So do you gays would like to see a new fork with smart contract system such as EVM?
1513327792
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513327792

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513327792
Reply with quote  #2

1513327792
Report to moderator
1513327792
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513327792

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513327792
Reply with quote  #2

1513327792
Report to moderator
No Gods or Kings. Only Bitcoin
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1513327792
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513327792

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513327792
Reply with quote  #2

1513327792
Report to moderator
1513327792
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513327792

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513327792
Reply with quote  #2

1513327792
Report to moderator
HeRetiK
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 588


the forkings will continue until morale improves


View Profile
December 03, 2017, 04:05:27 PM
 #2

As bitcoin is becoming more and more popular, it is useful to introduce the smart contract, just like Ethereum. The bitcoin asset can be processed with a complicated logic. This will make bitcoin more conveniently suitable for finance and business. So do you gays would like to see a new fork with smart contract system such as EVM?

In my opinion using a turing complete language for writing smart contracts on an immutable blockchain is not sound enough and too error prone. Just look at all the hacks and silly mistakes that happen to due to questionable design decisions in Solidity. It may get better with improved tooling, but the way I see it Ethereum smart contracts still need to get a long way before being trustworthy.

That being said, Bitcoin already has some basic scripting capabilities that I wouldn't underestimate. There's even layers on top such as XCP and OMNI that allow for token issuance.

Further down the road we might even see something like Simplicity:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2338626.0;topicseen

Which strives to increase Bitcoin's scripting capabilities without decreasing security.

pebwindkraft
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 101


View Profile
December 03, 2017, 10:08:49 PM
 #3

I wouldn't like to see this.  Grin
Maybe you can first of all explain, what you think can be achieved with smart contracts on bitcoin.
Then explain, what you think, why a complete turing machine is required to do a smart contract (use cases?).
Then what you have done / tried to do with bitcoin, and why it wouldn't fit, and hence the need for a turing complete EVM comparable environment.
Why not do it in a side chain, and proof, that it works (ehm, eh, it doesn't in Ethereum, repeatedly - we'd like to be secured with our funds).

Just because it's technically feasable? Certainly not a good start...
Ucy
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336



View Profile
December 03, 2017, 11:47:09 PM
 #4

As bitcoin is becoming more and more popular, it is useful to introduce the smart contract, just like Ethereum. The bitcoin asset can be processed with a complicated logic. This will make bitcoin more conveniently suitable for finance and business. So do you gays would like to see a new fork with smart contract system such as EVM?

In my opinion using a turing complete language for writing smart contracts on an immutable blockchain is not sound enough and too error prone. Just look at all the hacks and silly mistakes that happen to due to questionable design decisions in Solidity. It may get better with improved tooling, but the way I see it Ethereum smart contracts still need to get a long way before being trustworthy.

That being said, Bitcoin already has some basic scripting capabilities that I wouldn't underestimate. There's even layers on top such as XCP and OMNI that allow for token issuance.

Further down the road we might even see something like Simplicity:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2338626.0;topicseen

Which strives to increase Bitcoin's scripting capabilities without decreasing security.

"There's even layers on top such as XCP and OMNI that allow for token issuance."

Guess you talking of Bitcoin  having Ethereum-like DApps  feature? I think this and Smart Contract thing would be great for Bitcoin.
 What are Devs waiting for then?

         ▄███████████████▄
       ▄██▀             ▀██▄
    ▄▄██▀                 ▀██▄▄
█████▀▀       ▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄▄    ▀▀█████
██          ▄▀ ▄▄▄▀▀▀▀▄▀█▄▄      ██
▐█▌       ▄▀ ▄▀ ▄▄▄▀▀▀▄▀▀▀███   ▐█▌
 ██      ▄▀▄▀▄▀▀▄▄▄▀▀▀▀▀█ ▄█▀   ██
 ▐█▌    █▄▀▄▀▄█▀▀▀ ▀█▀ ▄▀▄▀█   ▐█▌
  ██    █▄▀▄▀▄▄█▀ ▄▀ ▄▀▄▀▄▀█   ██
  ▐█▌ ▀▄█████▀▄▄▀▀▄▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀█  ▐█▌
   ██▌▀████▀██▄▄▀▀▄▄▀▄▀▄▀▄█▀ ▐██
    ██▌▀█▀▀█▄▀▀▄▀▀▄▄▀▄█▄▄█▀ ▐██
     ██▌ ▀  ▀███▄▄▄█████▀  ▐██
      ██▄      ▀▀▀▀▀      ▄██
       ▀██▄             ▄██▀
         ▀██▄         ▄██▀
           ▀██▄     ▄██▀
             ▀███▄███▀
               ▀███▀
DeepOnion 
★ ★ ★ ★ ★   ❱❱❱ JOIN AIRDROP NOW!
TOR INTEGRATED & SECURED
★  Your Anonymity Guaranteed
★  Your Assets Secured by TOR
★  Guard Your Privacy!
|Bitcointalk
Reddit
Telegram
|                        ▄▄▀▄▄▀▄▄▀▄▀▀
                    ▄▄██▀█▀▄▀▀▀
                  ▄██▄█▄██▀
                ▄██████▀
              ▄██████▀
  ▄█▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄██████▀
██████▀▀▀▀▀██████▀
 ▀█████  ▄███████
  ████████████▀██
  ██▀███████▀  ██
  ██ ▀████▀    ██
  ██   ▀▀      ██
  ▀█████████████▀
coinfirst
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 12


View Profile
December 04, 2017, 12:58:11 AM
 #5

As bitcoin is becoming more and more popular, it is useful to introduce the smart contract, just like Ethereum. The bitcoin asset can be processed with a complicated logic. This will make bitcoin more conveniently suitable for finance and business. So do you gays would like to see a new fork with smart contract system such as EVM?

In my opinion using a turing complete language for writing smart contracts on an immutable blockchain is not sound enough and too error prone. Just look at all the hacks and silly mistakes that happen to due to questionable design decisions in Solidity. It may get better with improved tooling, but the way I see it Ethereum smart contracts still need to get a long way before being trustworthy.

That being said, Bitcoin already has some basic scripting capabilities that I wouldn't underestimate. There's even layers on top such as XCP and OMNI that allow for token issuance.

Further down the road we might even see something like Simplicity:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2338626.0;topicseen

Which strives to increase Bitcoin's scripting capabilities without decreasing security.
Solidity is the first turing complete language for writing smart contracts in blockchain. Although it has many problems, it is still enough for most application. Bitcoin's scripting is not easy to use for the programmer. If Simplicity is as powerful as EVM, it will be nice.
coinfirst
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 12


View Profile
December 04, 2017, 08:23:12 AM
 #6

I found this project qtum that integrates the EVM and POS based on bitcoin. Is there anyone want to change back to add EVM for bitcoin?
omashi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 84


View Profile WWW
December 04, 2017, 10:01:09 AM
 #7

it's very tempting to say turing complete language will solve everything, theoretically it's true, in practice it's not the best option, since it will also open up an infinite attack vector, logic is simple, if you have infinite possibilities, you will need to deal with infinite attacks.
On the other hand, here is a great talk presented by Russell O'Oconor https://youtu.be/TGE6jrVmt_I where he explained in more details why turing complete is not a good option, delta 0 formulas might be expressive enough to build secure and useful blockchain language that's verifiable with no halt problem.
Recently a paper called 'Simplicity' published by blockstream that discuss this approach more, this allows safer and verifiable smart contracts.

Xynerise
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56


View Profile
December 04, 2017, 10:37:11 AM
 #8

Bitcoin already has Rootstock, a sidechain, to provide smart contracts.
And you can deploy Solidity/Ethereum smart contracts on the Rootstock chain:
https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/54036/can-someone-show-me-an-example-rootstock-smart-contract-that-is-the-equivalent-o
HeRetiK
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 588


the forkings will continue until morale improves


View Profile
December 04, 2017, 01:08:09 PM
 #9

"There's even layers on top such as XCP and OMNI that allow for token issuance."

Guess you talking of Bitcoin  having Ethereum-like DApps  feature? I think this and Smart Contract thing would be great for Bitcoin.
 What are Devs waiting for then?

Not to the extend of complexity of a DApp, but certainly covering many of the features that are most commonly used. USDT for example is nothing else than an OMNI token. However most tokens seem to choose ETH over XCP / OMNI due to BTC's transaction fees. STORJ for example transitioned from XCP to ETH for that very reason.


Solidity is the first turing complete language for writing smart contracts in blockchain. Although it has many problems, it is still enough for most application. Bitcoin's scripting is not easy to use for the programmer. If Simplicity is as powerful as EVM, it will be nice.

A platform that regularly loses billions of dollars worth of assets is barely "enough for most applications". Who cares if writing smart contract becomes easy, if at the same time it becomes insecure and error prone? Ethereum has one purpose, and that is providing a secure platform and solid foundation for smart contracts handling immutable transactions. If it continues failing at that I don't see good times for Ethereum ahead.

Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!